EPTOn June 18 2025 11:37 Nebuchad wrote:
We have not established that Iran is more genocidal, in fact we have established the opposite, as Iran is currently not in process of committing a genocide, while Israel is. As already explained in the last post, I do not accept your absolutely insane logic that if Iran is worse than Israel, it means I must support Israel in a war against Iran. This is never how I, or any other sane person, looks at a question like this. Otherwise Bush was very justified in attacking Saddam, and we would have to check how the Rohyngia feel about liberal values before we decide that Myanmar did a bad thing.
Edit: you'll have to excuse me, it's 4:50 am and I still have to do the 1h15 of exercise bike that I do every day (even though I have lost zero weight from doing it, lol). Hopefully I have made it clear enough that I have zero problem answering your questions. Have a pleasant rest of your day.
We have not established that Iran is more genocidal, in fact we have established the opposite, as Iran is currently not in process of committing a genocide, while Israel is. As already explained in the last post, I do not accept your absolutely insane logic that if Iran is worse than Israel, it means I must support Israel in a war against Iran. This is never how I, or any other sane person, looks at a question like this. Otherwise Bush was very justified in attacking Saddam, and we would have to check how the Rohyngia feel about liberal values before we decide that Myanmar did a bad thing.
Edit: you'll have to excuse me, it's 4:50 am and I still have to do the 1h15 of exercise bike that I do every day (even though I have lost zero weight from doing it, lol). Hopefully I have made it clear enough that I have zero problem answering your questions. Have a pleasant rest of your day.
Kind of funny timing I forced myself to stop reading, watched the end of the hockey game and went to bed. That stinks if weight loss is your goal and it is not happening. The bonus of things is I'm sure it is making you healthier and good job that takes a lot of discipline.
I guess I was mistaken from your response to Kwark. I find it difficult to fully understand your post when you say things like, that does not argue with my point or whatever, because that sounds like agreement, but apparently is not. If you had more complete answers it would be a lot easier. It seems like you are often more interested in winning than understanding or being understood.
My logic is not that you need to support Israel in this, it never has been. It is that it is not black and white all grey. And this one much less grey than Hamas/Gaza. Iran is a existential threat to Israel. They do have open genocidal intent that they have acted on. They were close to a nuke and openly going for it (weeks to a year away). Israel is going after military, leadership and nukes, Iran's answers to not getting nukes was basically "fuck you" for the last while.
On June 18 2025 14:22 Husyelt wrote:
Even if this were absolutely true, Israel has shown very little evidence that Iran was within a year of creating a nuclear bomb going back decades. If it were "kinda" true, they would be making massive propaganda style documentaries and movies about just how close things were and the brave heroes who used subterfuge and cunning to stop Iran ... getting a nuclear bomb, which Israel has. There's also no real reason to think Iran would just detonate a nuke inside Israel even if they could teleport one there. I know they have charters about death to america and israel, but judging from their past 5 years or so they are very pragmatic and often reach out to the US when Israel is being a bully.
If you do a preemptive strike you have to follow insanely strict legal steps to do so as a defensive measure. They would need absolute proof that not only did Iran have nuclear weapons, but was about to launch them imminently. Right now we just have some generic facility images and no reason to think they were close to finishing, let alone loading one into a ICBM or some other form and then launching. A nuke going off in any middle east country would be an unmitigated disaster for the entire region and world. Most countries get nukes for their trump card. Yes you can invade us but eventually we will be forced to glass your army.
Even if this were absolutely true, Israel has shown very little evidence that Iran was within a year of creating a nuclear bomb going back decades. If it were "kinda" true, they would be making massive propaganda style documentaries and movies about just how close things were and the brave heroes who used subterfuge and cunning to stop Iran ... getting a nuclear bomb, which Israel has. There's also no real reason to think Iran would just detonate a nuke inside Israel even if they could teleport one there. I know they have charters about death to america and israel, but judging from their past 5 years or so they are very pragmatic and often reach out to the US when Israel is being a bully.
If you do a preemptive strike you have to follow insanely strict legal steps to do so as a defensive measure. They would need absolute proof that not only did Iran have nuclear weapons, but was about to launch them imminently. Right now we just have some generic facility images and no reason to think they were close to finishing, let alone loading one into a ICBM or some other form and then launching. A nuke going off in any middle east country would be an unmitigated disaster for the entire region and world. Most countries get nukes for their trump card. Yes you can invade us but eventually we will be forced to glass your army.
If you wait until someone has nukes and is about to launch them it is too late. You include most in you second last sentence and that is the scary part, is Iran party of the most? Maybe, but if you are in charge of the country whos people are constantly threatened by extinction then that most other countries would only use it this way is not a compelling argument. It is not chatters, they set up multiple proxy armies to directly attack.
It will be interesting to see how other world leaders react. But Germany's came out with outright support.
German Chancellor Friedrich Merz has praised Israel for doing the “dirty work for all of us” by striking Iran and preventing it from building a nuclear weapon.
In an interview with Germany’s ZDF broadcaster on the sidelines of the G7 summit in Canada, Merz was asked if he agreed that Israel was doing the world’s “dirty work” against a regime that in the West is viewed as a “disruptive” force.
Merz said he was “grateful” for the interviewer using the term “dirty work.”
“This is the dirty work that Israel is doing for all of us,” he said. “The (Iranian) regime has brought death and destruction to the world with attacks, with murder and manslaughter, with Hezbollah, with Hamas.”
Merz said attacks like the one launched by Hamas on Israel on October 7, 2023 “would never have been possible” without the regime in Iran.
“I can only say I have the greatest respect for what the Israeli military and government has had the courage to do,” Merz said. The alternative, he claimed, would have been many more “months and years of this regime’s terror – and then possibly with a nuclear weapon in its hand.”
In an interview with Germany’s ZDF broadcaster on the sidelines of the G7 summit in Canada, Merz was asked if he agreed that Israel was doing the world’s “dirty work” against a regime that in the West is viewed as a “disruptive” force.
Merz said he was “grateful” for the interviewer using the term “dirty work.”
“This is the dirty work that Israel is doing for all of us,” he said. “The (Iranian) regime has brought death and destruction to the world with attacks, with murder and manslaughter, with Hezbollah, with Hamas.”
Merz said attacks like the one launched by Hamas on Israel on October 7, 2023 “would never have been possible” without the regime in Iran.
“I can only say I have the greatest respect for what the Israeli military and government has had the courage to do,” Merz said. The alternative, he claimed, would have been many more “months and years of this regime’s terror – and then possibly with a nuclear weapon in its hand.”
