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On June 18 2025 10:47 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2025 10:44 Billyboy wrote:On June 18 2025 10:41 Nebuchad wrote:On June 18 2025 10:39 Billyboy wrote:On June 18 2025 10:37 Nebuchad wrote:On June 18 2025 10:36 Billyboy wrote:On June 18 2025 10:25 Nebuchad wrote:On June 18 2025 10:23 Billyboy wrote:On June 18 2025 10:14 Nebuchad wrote:On June 18 2025 10:13 Billyboy wrote:
[quote]
Neb, I'm not going down this winding road with you because I know where it leads.
What is your real issue here? This is a peer on peer war right now. Iran is launching their missiles at Israel's residential areas. Israel is hitting military targets. They are clearly not jus trying to kill a bunch of Muslims. On top of that the Iranian government is one of the most repressive in the world, is expansionist, super anti women, crazily anti LGBQ, has made it worse for the people of multiple countries, has basically no redeeming qualities. What about them matches your socialist morals?
Why are you mad at this? I have no issue at all. You asked me why I thought that the stated goal of this attack on Iran was a lie, and I answered why. You then proceeded to continue to answer with some nonsense, and I explained why it was nonsense. You continue to dodge direct questions, or half answer. Your expectations from me are completely different than what you yourself do. Sadly the only logical conclusion I can come to is that you are so blinded by hate and prejudice that you ignore your values when it comes to anything related to Israel. As a general rule I don't really care what you think about me (or pretty much anyone or anything else, really). Congrats, but seems odd then that you are scared to answer straight forward questions. I am not, you can ask me anything. What is your real issue here? This is a peer on peer war right now. Iran is launching their missiles at Israel's residential areas. Israel is hitting military targets. They are clearly not jus trying to kill a bunch of Muslims. On top of that the Iranian government is one of the most repressive in the world, is expansionist, super anti women, crazily anti LGBQ, has made it worse for the people of multiple countries, has basically no redeeming qualities. What about them matches your socialist morals? Opposing a fascist government who is already responsible for killing probably hundreds of thousands of people isn't opposed to my values at all, it is in fact one of my core values. I am very strongly antifascist. I am not impressed by your strategy of trying to paint my opposition to Israel as support for Iran, as that was the strategy that was used against the people who opposed the Iraq war. Why do you love Saddam so much? They didn't, obviously. I was a little too young to care about politics back then, but I still could tell that it was bullshit. In what ways is Israel more fascist than Iran? This is war between Israel and Iran directly. also, so much for the whole answering stuff. It didn't last one post. I do not believe that if two countries are fascistic and one is slightly less fascistic than the other, that means I have to support that country's fascistic actions. It is unclear to me what you take issue with regarding that last comment.
Can you then point me to your posts opposing the fascist government of Iran? Because you would think you would have as many or slightly more towards the country that in your opinon is slightly more fascist.
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On June 18 2025 10:57 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2025 10:47 Nebuchad wrote:On June 18 2025 10:44 Billyboy wrote:On June 18 2025 10:41 Nebuchad wrote:On June 18 2025 10:39 Billyboy wrote:On June 18 2025 10:37 Nebuchad wrote:On June 18 2025 10:36 Billyboy wrote:On June 18 2025 10:25 Nebuchad wrote:On June 18 2025 10:23 Billyboy wrote:On June 18 2025 10:14 Nebuchad wrote:
[quote]
I have no issue at all. You asked me why I thought that the stated goal of this attack on Iran was a lie, and I answered why. You then proceeded to continue to answer with some nonsense, and I explained why it was nonsense. You continue to dodge direct questions, or half answer. Your expectations from me are completely different than what you yourself do. Sadly the only logical conclusion I can come to is that you are so blinded by hate and prejudice that you ignore your values when it comes to anything related to Israel. As a general rule I don't really care what you think about me (or pretty much anyone or anything else, really). Congrats, but seems odd then that you are scared to answer straight forward questions. I am not, you can ask me anything. What is your real issue here? This is a peer on peer war right now. Iran is launching their missiles at Israel's residential areas. Israel is hitting military targets. They are clearly not jus trying to kill a bunch of Muslims. On top of that the Iranian government is one of the most repressive in the world, is expansionist, super anti women, crazily anti LGBQ, has made it worse for the people of multiple countries, has basically no redeeming qualities. What about them matches your socialist morals? Opposing a fascist government who is already responsible for killing probably hundreds of thousands of people isn't opposed to my values at all, it is in fact one of my core values. I am very strongly antifascist. I am not impressed by your strategy of trying to paint my opposition to Israel as support for Iran, as that was the strategy that was used against the people who opposed the Iraq war. Why do you love Saddam so much? They didn't, obviously. I was a little too young to care about politics back then, but I still could tell that it was bullshit. In what ways is Israel more fascist than Iran? This is war between Israel and Iran directly. also, so much for the whole answering stuff. It didn't last one post. I do not believe that if two countries are fascistic and one is slightly less fascistic than the other, that means I have to support that country's fascistic actions. It is unclear to me what you take issue with regarding that last comment. Can you then point me to your posts opposing the fascist government of Iran? Because you would think you would have as many or slightly more towards the country that in your opinon is slightly more fascist.
There is no discussion currently on this forum where a bunch of people are defending the government of Iran and saying a bunch of absolute nonsense to justify them committing genocide. They are also, as far as I'm aware of, currently not in the process of committing genocide. The political part of the world that I identify with, which is the West, is currently not spouting a bunch of lies about how they're doing good things and we should support them. When you couple those three facts together, I don't have many occasions to talk about them.
They are bad, though. I wish the iranian people would find success in overthrowing them.
You have repeatedly asked me this same question in the past, which makes me think that you're not really interested in the answer.
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On June 18 2025 11:01 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2025 10:57 Billyboy wrote:On June 18 2025 10:47 Nebuchad wrote:On June 18 2025 10:44 Billyboy wrote:On June 18 2025 10:41 Nebuchad wrote:On June 18 2025 10:39 Billyboy wrote:On June 18 2025 10:37 Nebuchad wrote:On June 18 2025 10:36 Billyboy wrote:On June 18 2025 10:25 Nebuchad wrote:On June 18 2025 10:23 Billyboy wrote:
[quote]
You continue to dodge direct questions, or half answer. Your expectations from me are completely different than what you yourself do. Sadly the only logical conclusion I can come to is that you are so blinded by hate and prejudice that you ignore your values when it comes to anything related to Israel.
As a general rule I don't really care what you think about me (or pretty much anyone or anything else, really). Congrats, but seems odd then that you are scared to answer straight forward questions. I am not, you can ask me anything. What is your real issue here? This is a peer on peer war right now. Iran is launching their missiles at Israel's residential areas. Israel is hitting military targets. They are clearly not jus trying to kill a bunch of Muslims. On top of that the Iranian government is one of the most repressive in the world, is expansionist, super anti women, crazily anti LGBQ, has made it worse for the people of multiple countries, has basically no redeeming qualities. What about them matches your socialist morals? Opposing a fascist government who is already responsible for killing probably hundreds of thousands of people isn't opposed to my values at all, it is in fact one of my core values. I am very strongly antifascist. I am not impressed by your strategy of trying to paint my opposition to Israel as support for Iran, as that was the strategy that was used against the people who opposed the Iraq war. Why do you love Saddam so much? They didn't, obviously. I was a little too young to care about politics back then, but I still could tell that it was bullshit. In what ways is Israel more fascist than Iran? This is war between Israel and Iran directly. also, so much for the whole answering stuff. It didn't last one post. I do not believe that if two countries are fascistic and one is slightly less fascistic than the other, that means I have to support that country's fascistic actions. It is unclear to me what you take issue with regarding that last comment. Can you then point me to your posts opposing the fascist government of Iran? Because you would think you would have as many or slightly more towards the country that in your opinon is slightly more fascist. There is no discussion currently on this forum where a bunch of people are defending the government of Iran and saying a bunch of absolute nonsense to justify them committing genocide. They are also, as far as I'm aware of, currently not in the process of committing genocide. The political part of the world that I identify with, which is the West, is currently not posting a bunch of lies about how they're good people and we should support them. When you couple those three facts together, I don't have many occasions to talk about them. They are bad, though. I wish the iranian people would find success in overthrowing them.
Well no they are not, they got kicked out Syria. But they have killed more people in the area than Israel by quite a bit. They also were the ones who supplied the people who lit the match in all the current blood shed. Not to mention their behavior in Syria most would say followed less of the rules of war than Israel in Gaza. I'm sure over on that thread you can point me to your take downs of the slightly more fascist government if not here there. Still strange that there is nothing here given their large part in this whole mess and them being more fascist. I would have thought that would upset you in some way.
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United States43480 Posts
On June 18 2025 11:01 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2025 10:57 Billyboy wrote:On June 18 2025 10:47 Nebuchad wrote:On June 18 2025 10:44 Billyboy wrote:On June 18 2025 10:41 Nebuchad wrote:On June 18 2025 10:39 Billyboy wrote:On June 18 2025 10:37 Nebuchad wrote:On June 18 2025 10:36 Billyboy wrote:On June 18 2025 10:25 Nebuchad wrote:On June 18 2025 10:23 Billyboy wrote:
[quote]
You continue to dodge direct questions, or half answer. Your expectations from me are completely different than what you yourself do. Sadly the only logical conclusion I can come to is that you are so blinded by hate and prejudice that you ignore your values when it comes to anything related to Israel.
As a general rule I don't really care what you think about me (or pretty much anyone or anything else, really). Congrats, but seems odd then that you are scared to answer straight forward questions. I am not, you can ask me anything. What is your real issue here? This is a peer on peer war right now. Iran is launching their missiles at Israel's residential areas. Israel is hitting military targets. They are clearly not jus trying to kill a bunch of Muslims. On top of that the Iranian government is one of the most repressive in the world, is expansionist, super anti women, crazily anti LGBQ, has made it worse for the people of multiple countries, has basically no redeeming qualities. What about them matches your socialist morals? Opposing a fascist government who is already responsible for killing probably hundreds of thousands of people isn't opposed to my values at all, it is in fact one of my core values. I am very strongly antifascist. I am not impressed by your strategy of trying to paint my opposition to Israel as support for Iran, as that was the strategy that was used against the people who opposed the Iraq war. Why do you love Saddam so much? They didn't, obviously. I was a little too young to care about politics back then, but I still could tell that it was bullshit. In what ways is Israel more fascist than Iran? This is war between Israel and Iran directly. also, so much for the whole answering stuff. It didn't last one post. I do not believe that if two countries are fascistic and one is slightly less fascistic than the other, that means I have to support that country's fascistic actions. It is unclear to me what you take issue with regarding that last comment. Can you then point me to your posts opposing the fascist government of Iran? Because you would think you would have as many or slightly more towards the country that in your opinon is slightly more fascist. There is no discussion currently on this forum where a bunch of people are defending the government of Iran and saying a bunch of absolute nonsense to justify them committing genocide. They are also, as far as I'm aware of, currently not in the process of committing genocide. The political part of the world that I identify with, which is the West, is currently not spouting a bunch of lies about how they're doing good things and we should support them. When you couple those three facts together, I don't have many occasions to talk about them. They are bad, though. I wish the iranian people would find success in overthrowing them. You have repeatedly asked me this same question in the past, which makes me think that you're not really interested in the answer.
Iran has a very public and very clear stated pro genocide policy and it’s weird that you wouldn’t know that. They’re very loud about it, they’re very proud of it, it features very heavily in their pan-Islamic messaging. And it’s not just policy, they have the warheads to do it and they’ve been launching them. They’re definitely actively genocidal, they just lack the power to match their goals.
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On June 18 2025 11:06 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2025 11:01 Nebuchad wrote:On June 18 2025 10:57 Billyboy wrote:On June 18 2025 10:47 Nebuchad wrote:On June 18 2025 10:44 Billyboy wrote:On June 18 2025 10:41 Nebuchad wrote:On June 18 2025 10:39 Billyboy wrote:On June 18 2025 10:37 Nebuchad wrote:On June 18 2025 10:36 Billyboy wrote:On June 18 2025 10:25 Nebuchad wrote:
[quote]
As a general rule I don't really care what you think about me (or pretty much anyone or anything else, really). Congrats, but seems odd then that you are scared to answer straight forward questions. I am not, you can ask me anything. What is your real issue here? This is a peer on peer war right now. Iran is launching their missiles at Israel's residential areas. Israel is hitting military targets. They are clearly not jus trying to kill a bunch of Muslims. On top of that the Iranian government is one of the most repressive in the world, is expansionist, super anti women, crazily anti LGBQ, has made it worse for the people of multiple countries, has basically no redeeming qualities. What about them matches your socialist morals? Opposing a fascist government who is already responsible for killing probably hundreds of thousands of people isn't opposed to my values at all, it is in fact one of my core values. I am very strongly antifascist. I am not impressed by your strategy of trying to paint my opposition to Israel as support for Iran, as that was the strategy that was used against the people who opposed the Iraq war. Why do you love Saddam so much? They didn't, obviously. I was a little too young to care about politics back then, but I still could tell that it was bullshit. In what ways is Israel more fascist than Iran? This is war between Israel and Iran directly. also, so much for the whole answering stuff. It didn't last one post. I do not believe that if two countries are fascistic and one is slightly less fascistic than the other, that means I have to support that country's fascistic actions. It is unclear to me what you take issue with regarding that last comment. Can you then point me to your posts opposing the fascist government of Iran? Because you would think you would have as many or slightly more towards the country that in your opinon is slightly more fascist. There is no discussion currently on this forum where a bunch of people are defending the government of Iran and saying a bunch of absolute nonsense to justify them committing genocide. They are also, as far as I'm aware of, currently not in the process of committing genocide. The political part of the world that I identify with, which is the West, is currently not posting a bunch of lies about how they're good people and we should support them. When you couple those three facts together, I don't have many occasions to talk about them. They are bad, though. I wish the iranian people would find success in overthrowing them. Well no they are not, they got kicked out Syria. But they have killed more people in the area than Israel by quite a bit. They also were the ones who supplied the people who lit the match in all the current blood shed. Not to mention their behavior in Syria most would say followed less of the rules of war than Israel in Gaza. I'm sure over on that thread you can point me to your take downs of the slightly more fascist government if not here there. Still strange that there is nothing here given their large part in this whole mess and them being more fascist. I would have thought that would upset you in some way.
Maybe let's try that logic on you, I have noticed that over the years you have talked about me or GH way more often than you have talked about LGBT rights, do you believe that GH and I are more important than LGBT rights?
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On June 18 2025 11:07 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2025 11:01 Nebuchad wrote:On June 18 2025 10:57 Billyboy wrote:On June 18 2025 10:47 Nebuchad wrote:On June 18 2025 10:44 Billyboy wrote:On June 18 2025 10:41 Nebuchad wrote:On June 18 2025 10:39 Billyboy wrote:On June 18 2025 10:37 Nebuchad wrote:On June 18 2025 10:36 Billyboy wrote:On June 18 2025 10:25 Nebuchad wrote:
[quote]
As a general rule I don't really care what you think about me (or pretty much anyone or anything else, really). Congrats, but seems odd then that you are scared to answer straight forward questions. I am not, you can ask me anything. What is your real issue here? This is a peer on peer war right now. Iran is launching their missiles at Israel's residential areas. Israel is hitting military targets. They are clearly not jus trying to kill a bunch of Muslims. On top of that the Iranian government is one of the most repressive in the world, is expansionist, super anti women, crazily anti LGBQ, has made it worse for the people of multiple countries, has basically no redeeming qualities. What about them matches your socialist morals? Opposing a fascist government who is already responsible for killing probably hundreds of thousands of people isn't opposed to my values at all, it is in fact one of my core values. I am very strongly antifascist. I am not impressed by your strategy of trying to paint my opposition to Israel as support for Iran, as that was the strategy that was used against the people who opposed the Iraq war. Why do you love Saddam so much? They didn't, obviously. I was a little too young to care about politics back then, but I still could tell that it was bullshit. In what ways is Israel more fascist than Iran? This is war between Israel and Iran directly. also, so much for the whole answering stuff. It didn't last one post. I do not believe that if two countries are fascistic and one is slightly less fascistic than the other, that means I have to support that country's fascistic actions. It is unclear to me what you take issue with regarding that last comment. Can you then point me to your posts opposing the fascist government of Iran? Because you would think you would have as many or slightly more towards the country that in your opinon is slightly more fascist. There is no discussion currently on this forum where a bunch of people are defending the government of Iran and saying a bunch of absolute nonsense to justify them committing genocide. They are also, as far as I'm aware of, currently not in the process of committing genocide. The political part of the world that I identify with, which is the West, is currently not spouting a bunch of lies about how they're doing good things and we should support them. When you couple those three facts together, I don't have many occasions to talk about them. They are bad, though. I wish the iranian people would find success in overthrowing them. You have repeatedly asked me this same question in the past, which makes me think that you're not really interested in the answer. Iran has a very public and very clear stated pro genocide policy and it’s weird that you wouldn’t know that. They’re very loud about it, they’re very proud of it, it features very heavily in their pan-Islamic messaging. And it’s not just policy, they have the warheads to do it and they’ve been launching them. They’re definitely actively genocidal, they just lack the power to match their goals.
Doesn't contradict anything I've said.
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On June 18 2025 11:07 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2025 11:06 Billyboy wrote:On June 18 2025 11:01 Nebuchad wrote:On June 18 2025 10:57 Billyboy wrote:On June 18 2025 10:47 Nebuchad wrote:On June 18 2025 10:44 Billyboy wrote:On June 18 2025 10:41 Nebuchad wrote:On June 18 2025 10:39 Billyboy wrote:On June 18 2025 10:37 Nebuchad wrote:On June 18 2025 10:36 Billyboy wrote:
[quote]
Congrats, but seems odd then that you are scared to answer straight forward questions. I am not, you can ask me anything. What is your real issue here? This is a peer on peer war right now. Iran is launching their missiles at Israel's residential areas. Israel is hitting military targets. They are clearly not jus trying to kill a bunch of Muslims. On top of that the Iranian government is one of the most repressive in the world, is expansionist, super anti women, crazily anti LGBQ, has made it worse for the people of multiple countries, has basically no redeeming qualities. What about them matches your socialist morals? Opposing a fascist government who is already responsible for killing probably hundreds of thousands of people isn't opposed to my values at all, it is in fact one of my core values. I am very strongly antifascist. I am not impressed by your strategy of trying to paint my opposition to Israel as support for Iran, as that was the strategy that was used against the people who opposed the Iraq war. Why do you love Saddam so much? They didn't, obviously. I was a little too young to care about politics back then, but I still could tell that it was bullshit. In what ways is Israel more fascist than Iran? This is war between Israel and Iran directly. also, so much for the whole answering stuff. It didn't last one post. I do not believe that if two countries are fascistic and one is slightly less fascistic than the other, that means I have to support that country's fascistic actions. It is unclear to me what you take issue with regarding that last comment. Can you then point me to your posts opposing the fascist government of Iran? Because you would think you would have as many or slightly more towards the country that in your opinon is slightly more fascist. There is no discussion currently on this forum where a bunch of people are defending the government of Iran and saying a bunch of absolute nonsense to justify them committing genocide. They are also, as far as I'm aware of, currently not in the process of committing genocide. The political part of the world that I identify with, which is the West, is currently not posting a bunch of lies about how they're good people and we should support them. When you couple those three facts together, I don't have many occasions to talk about them. They are bad, though. I wish the iranian people would find success in overthrowing them. Well no they are not, they got kicked out Syria. But they have killed more people in the area than Israel by quite a bit. They also were the ones who supplied the people who lit the match in all the current blood shed. Not to mention their behavior in Syria most would say followed less of the rules of war than Israel in Gaza. I'm sure over on that thread you can point me to your take downs of the slightly more fascist government if not here there. Still strange that there is nothing here given their large part in this whole mess and them being more fascist. I would have thought that would upset you in some way. Maybe let's try that logic on you, I have noticed that over the years you have talked about me or GH way more often than you have talked about LGBT rights, do you believe that me and GH are more important than LGBT rights?
Pretty poor example. I bring up LGBT rights pretty often. Even in this thread. I'm often confused on why again you are not upset with Iran record on that and somehow Israel's record on that gives them no benefit in your mid.
On June 18 2025 11:09 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2025 11:07 KwarK wrote:On June 18 2025 11:01 Nebuchad wrote:On June 18 2025 10:57 Billyboy wrote:On June 18 2025 10:47 Nebuchad wrote:On June 18 2025 10:44 Billyboy wrote:On June 18 2025 10:41 Nebuchad wrote:On June 18 2025 10:39 Billyboy wrote:On June 18 2025 10:37 Nebuchad wrote:On June 18 2025 10:36 Billyboy wrote:
[quote]
Congrats, but seems odd then that you are scared to answer straight forward questions. I am not, you can ask me anything. What is your real issue here? This is a peer on peer war right now. Iran is launching their missiles at Israel's residential areas. Israel is hitting military targets. They are clearly not jus trying to kill a bunch of Muslims. On top of that the Iranian government is one of the most repressive in the world, is expansionist, super anti women, crazily anti LGBQ, has made it worse for the people of multiple countries, has basically no redeeming qualities. What about them matches your socialist morals? Opposing a fascist government who is already responsible for killing probably hundreds of thousands of people isn't opposed to my values at all, it is in fact one of my core values. I am very strongly antifascist. I am not impressed by your strategy of trying to paint my opposition to Israel as support for Iran, as that was the strategy that was used against the people who opposed the Iraq war. Why do you love Saddam so much? They didn't, obviously. I was a little too young to care about politics back then, but I still could tell that it was bullshit. In what ways is Israel more fascist than Iran? This is war between Israel and Iran directly. also, so much for the whole answering stuff. It didn't last one post. I do not believe that if two countries are fascistic and one is slightly less fascistic than the other, that means I have to support that country's fascistic actions. It is unclear to me what you take issue with regarding that last comment. Can you then point me to your posts opposing the fascist government of Iran? Because you would think you would have as many or slightly more towards the country that in your opinon is slightly more fascist. There is no discussion currently on this forum where a bunch of people are defending the government of Iran and saying a bunch of absolute nonsense to justify them committing genocide. They are also, as far as I'm aware of, currently not in the process of committing genocide. The political part of the world that I identify with, which is the West, is currently not spouting a bunch of lies about how they're doing good things and we should support them. When you couple those three facts together, I don't have many occasions to talk about them. They are bad, though. I wish the iranian people would find success in overthrowing them. You have repeatedly asked me this same question in the past, which makes me think that you're not really interested in the answer. Iran has a very public and very clear stated pro genocide policy and it’s weird that you wouldn’t know that. They’re very loud about it, they’re very proud of it, it features very heavily in their pan-Islamic messaging. And it’s not just policy, they have the warheads to do it and they’ve been launching them. They’re definitely actively genocidal, they just lack the power to match their goals. Doesn't contradict anything I've said.
Debate bro style comments do not help you.
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On June 18 2025 11:07 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2025 11:06 Billyboy wrote:On June 18 2025 11:01 Nebuchad wrote:On June 18 2025 10:57 Billyboy wrote:On June 18 2025 10:47 Nebuchad wrote:On June 18 2025 10:44 Billyboy wrote:On June 18 2025 10:41 Nebuchad wrote:On June 18 2025 10:39 Billyboy wrote:On June 18 2025 10:37 Nebuchad wrote:On June 18 2025 10:36 Billyboy wrote:
[quote]
Congrats, but seems odd then that you are scared to answer straight forward questions. I am not, you can ask me anything. What is your real issue here? This is a peer on peer war right now. Iran is launching their missiles at Israel's residential areas. Israel is hitting military targets. They are clearly not jus trying to kill a bunch of Muslims. On top of that the Iranian government is one of the most repressive in the world, is expansionist, super anti women, crazily anti LGBQ, has made it worse for the people of multiple countries, has basically no redeeming qualities. What about them matches your socialist morals? Opposing a fascist government who is already responsible for killing probably hundreds of thousands of people isn't opposed to my values at all, it is in fact one of my core values. I am very strongly antifascist. I am not impressed by your strategy of trying to paint my opposition to Israel as support for Iran, as that was the strategy that was used against the people who opposed the Iraq war. Why do you love Saddam so much? They didn't, obviously. I was a little too young to care about politics back then, but I still could tell that it was bullshit. In what ways is Israel more fascist than Iran? This is war between Israel and Iran directly. also, so much for the whole answering stuff. It didn't last one post. I do not believe that if two countries are fascistic and one is slightly less fascistic than the other, that means I have to support that country's fascistic actions. It is unclear to me what you take issue with regarding that last comment. Can you then point me to your posts opposing the fascist government of Iran? Because you would think you would have as many or slightly more towards the country that in your opinon is slightly more fascist. There is no discussion currently on this forum where a bunch of people are defending the government of Iran and saying a bunch of absolute nonsense to justify them committing genocide. They are also, as far as I'm aware of, currently not in the process of committing genocide. The political part of the world that I identify with, which is the West, is currently not posting a bunch of lies about how they're good people and we should support them. When you couple those three facts together, I don't have many occasions to talk about them. They are bad, though. I wish the iranian people would find success in overthrowing them. Well no they are not, they got kicked out Syria. But they have killed more people in the area than Israel by quite a bit. They also were the ones who supplied the people who lit the match in all the current blood shed. Not to mention their behavior in Syria most would say followed less of the rules of war than Israel in Gaza. I'm sure over on that thread you can point me to your take downs of the slightly more fascist government if not here there. Still strange that there is nothing here given their large part in this whole mess and them being more fascist. I would have thought that would upset you in some way. Maybe let's try that logic on you, I have noticed that over the years you have talked about me or GH way more often than you have talked about LGBT rights, do you believe that GH and I are more important than LGBT rights?
I'd actually like to address the point you were trying to make. That you are saying that you talk more about Israel because it way more in your face and constantly irritating you.
That is the exact point I've been trying to make to you for a long time. So thank you. And it might be time to adjust your media intake so that you are hearing equal or better yet slightly more terrible stuff about Iran because it is happening and they are doing it, even within their own boarders!
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On June 18 2025 11:12 Billyboy wrote:
Pretty poor example. I bring up LGBT rights pretty often. Even in this thread. I'm often confused on why again you are not upset with Iran record on that and somehow Israel's record on that gives them no benefit in your mid.
I do not believe that a good response to people being against LGBT rights is ethnic cleansing (in the case of Gaza) or regime change with the purpose of eliminating opposition to an ethnic cleansing (in the case of Iran). In many ways I think that ethnic cleansing is worse than opposition to LGBT rights. The reason why I am in favor of LGBT rights is my humanist values, and my humanist values also apply to other forms of identities, for example religious identity. As you're aware, I am not often asked if I think Israel is justified in not being opposed to LGBT rights. I think they are justified in that. I am more often asked to look away from their other actions because of their support for LGBT rights. This is called pinkwashing, and it is disgusting, especially to people who are in the LGBT community. This is why there is a lot of connexion between the LGBT community and pro-Palestine crowds.
On June 18 2025 11:19 Billyboy wrote:
That is the exact point I've been trying to make to you for a long time. So thank you. And it might be time to adjust your media intake so that you are hearing equal or better yet slightly more terrible stuff about Iran because it is happening and they are doing it, even within their own boarders!
It must have been years since we had a discussion that you didn't start, so if you think I'm too much in your face, I have a solution for you, it's the same as always: stop engaging me.
My media intake is excellent.
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On June 18 2025 11:20 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2025 11:12 Billyboy wrote:
Pretty poor example. I bring up LGBT rights pretty often. Even in this thread. I'm often confused on why again you are not upset with Iran record on that and somehow Israel's record on that gives them no benefit in your mid. I do not believe that a good response to people being against LGBT rights is ethnic cleansing (in the case of Gaza) or regime change with the purpose of eliminating opposition to an ethnic cleansing (in the case of Iran). In many ways I think that ethnic cleansing is worse than opposition to LGBT rights. The reason why I am in favor of LGBT rights is my humanist values, and my humanist values also apply to other forms of identities, for example religious identity. As you're aware, I am not often asked if I think Israel is justified in not being opposed to LGBT rights. I think they are justified in that. I am more often asked to look away from their other actions because of their support for LGBT rights. This is called pinkwashing, and it is disgusting, especially to people who are in the LGBT community. This is why there is a lot of connexion between the LGBT community and pro-Palestine crowds. Show nested quote +On June 18 2025 11:19 Billyboy wrote:
That is the exact point I've been trying to make to you for a long time. So thank you. And it might be time to adjust your media intake so that you are hearing equal or better yet slightly more terrible stuff about Iran because it is happening and they are doing it, even within their own boarders! It must have been years since we had a discussion that you didn't start, so if you think I'm too much in your face, I have a solution for you, it's the same as always: stop engaging me. My media intake is excellent.
But we have established that you agree that Iran is more Fascist and more genocidal. So a logical person would hate that government even more and then when they started looking at other criteria they cared about a lot, not as much as the other one but still lots, and that one was a clear win, and there was a whole bunch of clear wins but for you it is the opposite one that is always top of mind and constantly irritating.
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On June 18 2025 11:28 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2025 11:20 Nebuchad wrote:On June 18 2025 11:12 Billyboy wrote:
Pretty poor example. I bring up LGBT rights pretty often. Even in this thread. I'm often confused on why again you are not upset with Iran record on that and somehow Israel's record on that gives them no benefit in your mid. I do not believe that a good response to people being against LGBT rights is ethnic cleansing (in the case of Gaza) or regime change with the purpose of eliminating opposition to an ethnic cleansing (in the case of Iran). In many ways I think that ethnic cleansing is worse than opposition to LGBT rights. The reason why I am in favor of LGBT rights is my humanist values, and my humanist values also apply to other forms of identities, for example religious identity. As you're aware, I am not often asked if I think Israel is justified in not being opposed to LGBT rights. I think they are justified in that. I am more often asked to look away from their other actions because of their support for LGBT rights. This is called pinkwashing, and it is disgusting, especially to people who are in the LGBT community. This is why there is a lot of connexion between the LGBT community and pro-Palestine crowds. On June 18 2025 11:19 Billyboy wrote:
That is the exact point I've been trying to make to you for a long time. So thank you. And it might be time to adjust your media intake so that you are hearing equal or better yet slightly more terrible stuff about Iran because it is happening and they are doing it, even within their own boarders! It must have been years since we had a discussion that you didn't start, so if you think I'm too much in your face, I have a solution for you, it's the same as always: stop engaging me. My media intake is excellent. But we have established that you agree that Iran is more Fascist and more genocidal. So a logical person would hate that government even more and then when they started looking at other criteria they cared about a lot, not as much as the other one but still lots, and that one was a clear win, and there was a whole bunch of clear wins but for you it is the opposite one that is always top of mind and constantly irritating.
We have not established that Iran is more genocidal, in fact we have established the opposite, as Iran is currently not in process of committing a genocide, while Israel is. As already explained in the last post, I do not accept your absolutely insane logic that if Iran is worse than Israel, it means I must support Israel in a war against Iran. This is never how I, or any other sane person, looks at a question like this. Otherwise Bush was very justified in attacking Saddam, and we would have to check how the Rohyngia feel about liberal values before we decide that Myanmar did a bad thing.
Edit: you'll have to excuse me, it's 4:50 am and I still have to do the 1h15 of exercise bike that I do every day (even though I have lost zero weight from doing it, lol). Hopefully I have made it clear enough that I have zero problem answering your questions. Have a pleasant rest of your day.
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United States43480 Posts
On June 18 2025 11:37 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2025 11:28 Billyboy wrote:On June 18 2025 11:20 Nebuchad wrote:On June 18 2025 11:12 Billyboy wrote:
Pretty poor example. I bring up LGBT rights pretty often. Even in this thread. I'm often confused on why again you are not upset with Iran record on that and somehow Israel's record on that gives them no benefit in your mid. I do not believe that a good response to people being against LGBT rights is ethnic cleansing (in the case of Gaza) or regime change with the purpose of eliminating opposition to an ethnic cleansing (in the case of Iran). In many ways I think that ethnic cleansing is worse than opposition to LGBT rights. The reason why I am in favor of LGBT rights is my humanist values, and my humanist values also apply to other forms of identities, for example religious identity. As you're aware, I am not often asked if I think Israel is justified in not being opposed to LGBT rights. I think they are justified in that. I am more often asked to look away from their other actions because of their support for LGBT rights. This is called pinkwashing, and it is disgusting, especially to people who are in the LGBT community. This is why there is a lot of connexion between the LGBT community and pro-Palestine crowds. On June 18 2025 11:19 Billyboy wrote:
That is the exact point I've been trying to make to you for a long time. So thank you. And it might be time to adjust your media intake so that you are hearing equal or better yet slightly more terrible stuff about Iran because it is happening and they are doing it, even within their own boarders! It must have been years since we had a discussion that you didn't start, so if you think I'm too much in your face, I have a solution for you, it's the same as always: stop engaging me. My media intake is excellent. But we have established that you agree that Iran is more Fascist and more genocidal. So a logical person would hate that government even more and then when they started looking at other criteria they cared about a lot, not as much as the other one but still lots, and that one was a clear win, and there was a whole bunch of clear wins but for you it is the opposite one that is always top of mind and constantly irritating. We have not established that Iran is more genocidal, in fact we have established the opposite, as Iran is currently not in process of committing a genocide, while Israel is. As already explained in the last post, I do not accept your absolutely insane logic that if Iran is worse than Israel, it means I must support Israel in a war against Iran. This is never how I, or any other sane person, looks at a question like this. Otherwise Bush was very justified in attacking Saddam, and we would have to check how the Rohyngia feel about liberal values before we decide that Myanmar did a bad thing. Edit: you'll have to excuse me, it's 4:50 am and I still have to do the 1h15 of exercise bike that I do every day (even though I have lost zero weight from doing it, lol). Hopefully I have made it clear enough that I have zero problem answering your questions. Have a pleasant rest of your day.
Iran literally is in the process of committing a genocide against Israel, it's just not doing a very effective job of it, despite giving it 100% effort.
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On June 18 2025 07:38 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2025 06:56 Jockmcplop wrote:
Reading about some very insane threats coming from Iran right now.
Might be BS cos its from random twitter accounts.
"tonight will be remembered for centuries" was one of them.
Its probably just hot air tbh. I just hope I get to see Ado in concert in Amsterdam on saturday, after that I can die I don't really care
It's always a pleasent surprise to discover mutual interests with people holding completely different views.
That being said, I think your logic of wrong claims in the past:ä is flawed:
Just because the claim has been false in the past doesn't logically reduce the probability of it being true now, especially if conditions have changed. This is close to a base rate fallacy.
Analogy: If someone falsely predicted rain for 30 days straight, it doesn't mean it won't rain on the 31st - especially if now there are dark clouds and humidity rose. The enrichment level (60%) is a concrete, high-stakes development, indicating a significant shift. Ignoring such updated, material evidence in favor of past rhetorical failures is poor Bayesian reasoning.
Further, saying "If it ends up being true anyway, you'll just have been wrong, no big deal" is inappropriate in geopolitical and nuclear contexts. Being wrong might be a very big deal. So dismissing it casually understates the asymmetrical risk.
Overall, the logic seems akin to a probabilistic inertia fallacy, treating repeated falsehoods as if they statistically reduce the chance of a current truth, despite new and compelling evidence.
Iran is trying to commit a genocide, while Israel is not. Repeating a lie over and over doesn't make it more true.
Where are the leaked documents? Executive orders? The things that prove intent like for China, Sudan, Germany, Myanmar, etc.?
What about actions that clearly were meant to protect the civilians like TV and radio broadcasts, pamphlets, SMS, speakers?
The civilian-to-soldier casualty rate?
Providing electricity, water to a hostile neighbour?
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There's a fallacy around the whole "every year Israel says Iran is going to get the bomb and it never happens, so Israel is lying". The fallacy is that Israel has taken numerous actions to prevent it, so saying that Israel has been wrong is not correct.
It's like saying that your mechanic is wrong when he says your car will break down if you don't change the oil and then he changes the oil and your car doesn't break down. So now you're angry at your mechanic for charging you for an oil change because the car never broke down.
That would be stupid, but that could very well be what's happening with Israel and Iran's nuclear weapons program. They've assassinated scientists, bombed, and used cyber warfare to prevent it. We'll never know for sure where Iran's program would be if it was left alone, but there's a much greater than 0% chance a bomb would already exist if not for Israel's actions.
I know people give too much credit for responding well to disasters and not nearly enough credit for preventing them, but we shouldn't call someone a liar when they take action to prevent something bad from happening.
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On June 18 2025 14:01 RenSC2 wrote:
There's a fallacy around the whole "every year Israel says Iran is going to get the bomb and it never happens, so Israel is lying". The fallacy is that Israel has taken numerous actions to prevent it, so saying that Israel has been wrong is not correct.
It's like saying that your mechanic is wrong when he says your car will break down if you don't change the oil and then he changes the oil and your car doesn't break down. So now you're angry at your mechanic for charging you for an oil change because the car never broke down.
That would be stupid, but that could very well be what's happening with Israel and Iran's nuclear weapons program. They've assassinated scientists, bombed, and used cyber warfare to prevent it. We'll never know for sure where Iran's program would be if it was left alone, but there's a much greater than 0% chance a bomb would already exist if not for Israel's actions.
I know people give too much credit for responding well to disasters and not nearly enough credit for preventing them, but we shouldn't call someone a liar when they take action to prevent something bad from happening.
Even if this were absolutely true, Israel has shown very little evidence that Iran was within a year of creating a nuclear bomb going back decades. If it were "kinda" true, they would be making massive propaganda style documentaries and movies about just how close things were and the brave heroes who used subterfuge and cunning to stop Iran ... getting a nuclear bomb, which Israel has. There's also no real reason to think Iran would just detonate a nuke inside Israel even if they could teleport one there. I know they have charters about death to america and israel, but judging from their past 5 years or so they are very pragmatic and often reach out to the US when Israel is being a bully.
If you do a preemptive strike you have to follow insanely strict legal steps to do so as a defensive measure. They would need absolute proof that not only did Iran have nuclear weapons, but was about to launch them imminently. Right now we just have some generic facility images and no reason to think they were close to finishing, let alone loading one into a ICBM or some other form and then launching. A nuke going off in any middle east country would be an unmitigated disaster for the entire region and world. Most countries get nukes for their trump card. Yes you can invade us but eventually we will be forced to glass your army.
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On June 18 2025 14:01 RenSC2 wrote:
There's a fallacy around the whole "every year Israel says Iran is going to get the bomb and it never happens, so Israel is lying". The fallacy is that Israel has taken numerous actions to prevent it, so saying that Israel has been wrong is not correct.
It's like saying that your mechanic is wrong when he says your car will break down if you don't change the oil and then he changes the oil and your car doesn't break down. So now you're angry at your mechanic for charging you for an oil change because the car never broke down.
That would be stupid, but that could very well be what's happening with Israel and Iran's nuclear weapons program. They've assassinated scientists, bombed, and used cyber warfare to prevent it. We'll never know for sure where Iran's program would be if it was left alone, but there's a much greater than 0% chance a bomb would already exist if not for Israel's actions.
I know people give too much credit for responding well to disasters and not nearly enough credit for preventing them, but we shouldn't call someone a liar when they take action to prevent something bad from happening.
There's a fallacy in that from the start, in that you can't assume someone is lying just because they lied in the past, that's not how lying works. It just makes it more likely that they're lying now, but that's never going to be a guarantee. I think this is still true with your added context, especially when coupled with the assessment of US intelligence that they were still years away and with the specific context of negotiations with the US that were in process.
Based on Netanyahu's current goals, circumstances, ideology and geopolitical situation, it is absolutely logical for him to want to do this, and then he did it. Did he hit the jackpot that just when it was convenient, it happened to be the moment where it was necessary in order to stop their nuclear program? That is possible, it doesn't break any of the rules of the reality. I just see a much simpler explanation.
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On June 18 2025 07:38 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2025 06:56 Jockmcplop wrote:
Reading about some very insane threats coming from Iran right now.
Might be BS cos its from random twitter accounts.
"tonight will be remembered for centuries" was one of them.
Its probably just hot air tbh. I just hope I get to see Ado in concert in Amsterdam on saturday, after that I can die I don't really care
My daughter goes to one in London tomorrow  .
On June 18 2025 13:00 PremoBeats wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2025 07:38 Nebuchad wrote:On June 18 2025 06:56 Jockmcplop wrote:
Reading about some very insane threats coming from Iran right now.
Might be BS cos its from random twitter accounts.
"tonight will be remembered for centuries" was one of them.
Its probably just hot air tbh. I just hope I get to see Ado in concert in Amsterdam on saturday, after that I can die I don't really care It's always a pleasent surprise to discover mutual interests with people holding completely different views. That being said, I think your logic of wrong claims in the past:ä is flawed: Just because the claim has been false in the past doesn't logically reduce the probability of it being true now, especially if conditions have changed. This is close to a base rate fallacy. Analogy: If someone falsely predicted rain for 30 days straight, it doesn't mean it won't rain on the 31st - especially if now there are dark clouds and humidity rose. The enrichment level (60%) is a concrete, high-stakes development, indicating a significant shift. Ignoring such updated, material evidence in favor of past rhetorical failures is poor Bayesian reasoning. Further, saying "If it ends up being true anyway, you'll just have been wrong, no big deal" is inappropriate in geopolitical and nuclear contexts. Being wrong might be a very big deal. So dismissing it casually understates the asymmetrical risk. Overall, the logic seems akin to a probabilistic inertia fallacy, treating repeated falsehoods as if they statistically reduce the chance of a current truth, despite new and compelling evidence. Iran is trying to commit a genocide, while Israel is not. Repeating a lie over and over doesn't make it more true. Where are the leaked documents? Executive orders? The things that prove intent like for China, Sudan, Germany, Myanmar, etc.? What about actions that clearly were meant to protect the civilians like TV and radio broadcasts, pamphlets, SMS, speakers? The civilian-to-soldier casualty rate? Providing electricity, water to a hostile neighbour?
I think the point you missing in your analogy is that person predicting the rain is someone trying to sell you umbrella. You may justify invasion of Iraq in the same way. They didnt have WMD but they would someday.
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I seems like the coalition of the aggressive has moved on from "they need to completely give up their Nuclear program and negotiate" to "unconditional surrender" as the requirement for bombings to stop / new bombs from USA to not start dropping.
But I guess Iran = Bad so they deserve for the Trump / Bibi axis to do whatever the fuck they like to them.
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Is this a try to hint at Iran already having nuclear weapons?
But then surely they would use this as a deterrent if it was true? "don't ever try to attack us, or..."
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EPT
