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On June 04 2025 06:42 Yurie wrote: A question I never really asked myself. Why does the refugees remain in place when Israel wants them gone and most people would leave to avoid starvation (if possible).
Random youtube recommendation, so not sure about all the facts but seems reasonable.
Summary. Integration failed badly the last time and nobody wants to repeat it.
This is one of the details that compels me to confidently declare Palestinians to be the greatest victims of humanity right now. Its not "just" that they are killed and dehumanized. They have been manipulated and weaponized by so many groups throughout the years they aren't even really able to integrate into any modern society. They can't even integrate into some of the more conservative Muslim cultures. Their history of being weaponized became a part of their culture and they lost the ability to ever integrate with anyone else. They are used as tools, isolated from the rest of human society, and no one in the world has any desire to help them. Its the kind of existence I would imagine a nation being condemned to in hell or something.
On June 04 2025 06:42 Yurie wrote: A question I never really asked myself. Why does the refugees remain in place when Israel wants them gone and most people would leave to avoid starvation (if possible).
Random youtube recommendation, so not sure about all the facts but seems reasonable.
Summary. Integration failed badly the last time and nobody wants to repeat it.
This is one of the details that compels me to confidently declare Palestinians to be the greatest victims of humanity right now. Its not "just" that they are killed and dehumanized. They have been manipulated and weaponized by so many groups throughout the years they aren't even really able to integrate into any modern society. They can't even integrate into some of the more conservative Muslim cultures. Their history of being weaponized became a part of their culture and they lost the ability to ever integrate with anyone else. They are used as tools, isolated from the rest of human society, and no one in the world has any desire to help them. Its the kind of existence I would imagine a nation being condemned to in hell or something.
As sad as it is they are not the only ones, you also have the Kurds, Uyghurs, Tibetans, Rohingya, Sahrawis, Tamils, I am sure I am missing a whole bunch. And this is not to dispute how terrible the Palestinians have it, just that the world is real shitty to many groups.
I decided to ask Chat GPT because the research was super depressing and I figured I was extra biased.
Determining which group "has it worst" depends on what criteria you use—statelessness, level of violence, scale of displacement, denial of rights, or risk of genocide. That said, some groups face exceptionally severe, ongoing conditions that stand out globally.
Here's a ranked overview based on severity of current suffering, combining indicators like genocide risk, statelessness, displacement, and international isolation:
🔴 1. Rohingya (Myanmar) – Arguably the Worst Off Status: Stateless since 1982.
Recent Genocide: 2017 military crackdown killed thousands, burned villages, and forced ~1 million into refugee camps in Bangladesh.
Living Conditions: Refugee camps are overcrowded, unsafe, and nearly lawless. Bangladesh wants to repatriate them, but Myanmar remains hostile.
International Recognition: Some recognition, but very limited action. No homeland, no state, no path to citizenship.
🔴 2. Uyghurs (China) – Cultural Genocide Ongoing Status: Chinese citizens, but in a hyper-surveillance police state.
Repression: Mass internment (~1 million+ in camps), forced labor, religious persecution, child separation, sterilization reports.
Long-Term Outlook: Beijing’s policies aim to erase Uyghur culture. Very little internal or external recourse. Speaking out is dangerous even in exile.
International Recognition: Widely condemned, but no country will sanction China meaningfully.
🔴 3. Palestinians (Israel/Occupied Territories) – Entrenched, Long-Term Oppression Status: Divided between stateless (Gaza, West Bank) and second-class citizens (inside Israel).
Living Conditions: Gaza is under siege, with extreme humanitarian crises. West Bank under occupation with daily violence, arrests, home demolitions.
Recent War (2023–2024): Massive death tolls, displacement, and infrastructure destruction in Gaza.
Outlook: No sovereignty, settlements expanding, peace process frozen.
🔴 4. Western Saharans (Occupied by Morocco) – Forgotten & Stateless Status: Stateless people living under occupation or in exile in Algerian desert camps.
Living Conditions: Refugees in harsh desert for 40+ years; no path to statehood despite UN resolutions.
International Recognition: Very little attention, and major powers back Morocco.
Outlook: Extremely poor, with minimal media coverage and no end in sight.
🟠 5. Kurds (Turkey, Iraq, Syria, Iran) – Repressed but Partially Autonomous Status: Stateless, but with de facto autonomy in parts of Iraq and Syria.
Repression: Cultural bans (Turkey, Iran), military crackdowns, no international support for independence.
Positive Note: Kurdistan Region of Iraq has partial autonomy. Still, heavily dependent on foreign powers and vulnerable to invasion (e.g., Turkish airstrikes).
Outlook: Fragmented but some gains.
🟠 6. Tibetans (China) – Repressed but Less Visible Violence Status: Chinese citizens under tight control.
Cultural Erasure: Monasteries destroyed, language and religion restricted, population diluted by Han migration.
Violence: Less overt than Uyghurs but long-term sinicization continues.
Outlook: Tibet is essentially lost in terms of autonomy, with little hope of revival under Chinese rule.
I think that summary is missing the part that I think distinguishes Palestinians: A culture that has no realistic path to integration and a long history showing integration isn't possible. I want to be clear I don't blame Palestinians for the current state of their culture and psychology, because this comparison will likely come across as hostile. But history has shown us the problem is similar to when kids are rescued from cult compounds. The FBI shows up, every member of the cult is willing to die for the leader. The kids are shooting at FBI agents. Even after these people are rescued, their path to integrating into normal society is incredibly difficult.
As ChatGPT indicates, Bangladesh wants to repatriate Rohingya. There is a realistic path to that happening. Palestinians don't have that. Their closest allies don't want to touch them with a 10 foot pole. And for the reasons I described. Its all quite tragic. I don't blame them for how they think and feel, but I do recognize the nearby Arab nations have extremely well supported reasons to turn them away. Not only do they not have a home, they don't even have a realistic option for a home in the future, other than being isolated in the middle of Saudi Arabia or something.
And even beyond that, a whole bunch of them truly don't want to leave. We have tons of data showing they are totally down for serving as human shields and giving their lives to fight against Israel. Its not universal, but being locked out of normal society from both ends is chilling. Uyghurs having the luxury of worrying about their culture is another distinguishing characteristic. Palestinians are staring down the barrel of actual extinction.
On June 04 2025 08:54 Mohdoo wrote: I think that summary is missing the part that I think distinguishes Palestinians: A culture that has no realistic path to integration and a long history showing integration isn't possible. I want to be clear I don't blame Palestinians for the current state of their culture and psychology, because this comparison will likely come across as hostile. But history has shown us the problem is similar to when kids are rescued from cult compounds. The FBI shows up, every member of the cult is willing to die for the leader. The kids are shooting at FBI agents. Even after these people are rescued, their path to integrating into normal society is incredibly difficult.
As ChatGPT indicates, Bangladesh wants to repatriate Rohingya. There is a realistic path to that happening. Palestinians don't have that. Their closest allies don't want to touch them with a 10 foot pole. And for the reasons I described. Its all quite tragic. I don't blame them for how they think and feel, but I do recognize the nearby Arab nations have extremely well supported reasons to turn them away. Not only do they not have a home, they don't even have a realistic option for a home in the future, other than being isolated in the middle of Saudi Arabia or something.
And even beyond that, a whole bunch of them truly don't want to leave. We have tons of data showing they are totally down for serving as human shields and giving their lives to fight against Israel. Its not universal, but being locked out of normal society from both ends is chilling. Uyghurs having the luxury of worrying about their culture is another distinguishing characteristic. Palestinians are staring down the barrel of actual extinction.
Uyghurs are closer to extinction than Palestinians. Of the less then 12 million in the world, 11 million live in China. At least according to Wikipedia you have 300k in Kazakhstan, 100k in Turkey, 60k in Kyrgyzstan 50k in Uzbekistan and no where else has even 10k. Whereas you have 6 million Palestinians outside of Gaza and the Westbank. you also have the 1.5 million in Israel that are not in danger.
I think why Chat GPT is ranking the Palestinians 3rd is there is actual global outcry and huge movement behind making it better for them. None of that exists for the others, I mean GH can crack jokes about Uyghurs and literally not one person calls him out on it. Most people do not even know the Rohingya exist, probably the same for Uyghurs.
It is a terrible thing to argue about because they all have it so very awful, not a competition anyone wants to me.
The insane thing is that what China is doing to Uyghurs is basically along the lines of some of the "best case" scenarios that were proposed in this thread for how to deal with the problem of Gaza.
In the end, there's no one that even wants to try to erase their culture and make them more like them, so everyone is keeping quiet while Israel is slowly wiping them out.
The most insane part of it is that Israel has 0 desire to integrate them within their society, and while I detest China for what it's doing to Uyghurs it's an order of magnitude more humane and acceptable, even if we teleported all 2 + million Gazans somewhere Israel wouldn't stop with the West bank settlement expansion until all Palestinians are gone.
This is the horrific situation that makes me angry at people still towing the Israel's "they have the right to defend themselves" line as a justification for everything that's being done.
West bank is not helping Israel's security, October 7th attack would be much smaller in scale if the troops protecting the settlers were stationed around Gaza, like they were before, but that wasn't Israel's priority.
Chat GPT gonna GPT. What specific prompt did you use incidentally? Be interested to have a looksy
I’m unsure how much it scrapes from non-English sources, or from outside the ‘Western’ internet. I imagine probably quite a lot of the former. At least from my exploring of source listings from a whole bunch of varied queries I’ve made one doesn’t tend to see many of the latter.
The plight of the Palestinians absolutely has way more visibility than these others, but also way more pushback as well. At least in the domains I inhabit.
Which I imagine could influence things too. Say 10 of my buddies feel strongly about issue A and talk about it a lot, but 7 have one stance and 3 have another. Whereas I just have one buddy who does so for issue B. So yeah, I’m talking about issue B a lot less, but equally, based on my info coming just from my buddies in this hypothetical, my understanding of issue B will be more black and white.
I’m with Mohdoo to an extent, if I’m an individual Gazan versus various collective peoples anyway. I don’t really know anything about the Western Saharan. Others I’m not remotely an expert but that’s like an actual zero.
The other conflicts one can see some kinda mitigation. Would I stick money on the Kurds or Rohingya peoples having some more acceptable accommodation to them in the next 20/30 years? Possibly not, I wouldn’t bet against it either.
If I’m Tibetan, can some aspects of Chinese cultural oppression be absolutely shite? Of course. But to some degree I can just suck it up and have a decent, normal life. The option obviously sucks, but it is there.
Fleeing to somewhere from persecution, to somewhere where you don’t have your own state, or even genuine political enfranchisement but can at least somewhat maintain your culture as part of a diaspora? Bit of a shit option too, but it is an option nonetheless. Not really an option for many Gazan Palestinians right now
Of course, some of this is subject to change. At this particular juncture it’s pretty shitty to be a Palestinian in Gaza. Actual resolution looks a pipedream, but many compromises or plan Bs, even shitty ones also aren’t on the table for some.
I would add also that intent matters in terms of cultural erasure, it’s still a monstrous endeavour, but actually succeeding is exceptionally difficult unless you wipe out a group. The British didn’t fully pull it off in Ireland and had hundreds of years trying in various degrees. The Romani people and their way of life haven’t been popular in Europe for about half a millennium, and still to this day really. One doesn’t need a degree in history to be aware of historic persecution of the Jewish people and they’ve always persisted.
Now, to reiterate, the intent is really all that matters there and it’s not oppression Top Trumps, merely that in assessment capacity to actually do the thing, or the likelihood would be something I’d also factor in.
You are both really underselling the evil that is happening in China. If intent is your big go too then ChatGPT got it right because it is official government policy to erase them. You can be an extremist for things like the wrong name or having a irregular beard and sent to the reeducation camps. Children are taken from their families to be reeducated into the Chinese culture. That part alone makes our Canadian residential schools blush, and that was pretty fucken awful. Donèt trust the tankies who claim it is all capitalist propaganda, here is a youtube from a person that Nebuchad is a big fan of. He takes the socialist look at it and does not delve into assumption. The TLDR is what we know for sure is genocide. That they are straight up gassing people is likely not happening.
The prompts were something like what are the cultures most marginalized and oppressed then I followed it up with which of these groups have it worst. I tried to keep it as general as possible to keep out my own biases.
His joke
Honestly I'm ready to go to wherever they are purportedly genociding Uyghurs and compare it to Gaza
If the only choices on this planet are going to be which genocidal regime are you going to fall in line behind, I at least need to be able fairly compare them.
I'm being facetious (I'll chill), but I think part of the problem (and the Red Note and DeepSeek exposure demonstrated this) is that most people in the US haven't updated their understanding of China from the generic 80's propaganda that's just been on repeat since then.
I'm confident China has plenty of serious problems, I'm also confident that the last ~40 years has demonstrated how socialism with Chinese characteristics has done so much better than capitalism in India or the US at helping the least among their societies confront those problems and work on fixing them.
This is a good video yeah. His video on Ukraine is good as well. His videos on Palestine are very good, too, you should check them out. He would never support you in this... argument? I'm not even sure what's going on here. He would clearly say that Gaza is in worse shape than the Uyghurs and his channel reflects that.
The guy is a prick though x) He just does pretty well researched videos.
I apologize for bringing up some kinda suffering tier-list lol. I think this thread is difficult enough to keep on track as-is. Can we please confine our conversation to Palestine/Israel stuff and not just genocide as a whole
This is a good video yeah. His video on Ukraine is good as well. His videos on Palestine are very good, too, you should check them out. He would never support you in this... argument? I'm not even sure what's going on here. He would clearly say that Gaza is in worse shape than the Uyghurs and his channel reflects that.
The guy is a prick though x) He just does pretty well researched videos.
I have not watched his others yet, I have subscribed and plan to watch some. Some of the titles scare me, but if he sticks to the facts and just touches on the supposition it will likely be a good watch and some good intelligent counter balance to the other media I take in. I expected to hate it but came away impressed. Like you say it was well researched and he did not apologize away the bad parts as capitalist propaganda. He also did not get into the unknown bad that may or may not be happening but mentioned it and gave an opinion, while making clear it was a opinion which I appreciated.
There is lots of videos on Israel, some with very click bait titles, so if you have a suggestion on where to start that would be good. I plan on watching the, the war in Ukraine: the Only correct opinion, next. After that I will go with whatever you suggest. Might be a while though, they are not a light watch and I am trying to only watch this super heavy depressing stuff when I am in a positive mood.
I did not make an argument, Chat GPT did. I purposely avoided doing it myself both because I knew I would be biased and also because no matter how hard I tried not to be I was not looking forward to be accused of bias. The thread for the most part has had decent discussion and was trying to keep it going.
I think it is clear that for sure the Gazan Palestinians have it the worst right now. They are in an active warzone where the two combatants at best care nothing about their survival let alone their rights, and at worst want them all dead. Pre Oct 7th and outside of Gaza the results could be different depending on criteria.
My overall reasoning for looking into it was both my own curiosity on Mohdooès take that the Palestinians had it the worst and just that there are other groups of people who get almost zero mention, aid or support.
On June 04 2025 22:44 Billyboy wrote: You are both really underselling the evil that is happening in China. If intent is your big go too then ChatGPT got it right because it is official government policy to erase them. You can be an extremist for things like the wrong name or having a irregular beard and sent to the reeducation camps. Children are taken from their families to be reeducated into the Chinese culture. That part alone makes our Canadian residential schools blush, and that was pretty fucken awful. Donèt trust the tankies who claim it is all capitalist propaganda, here is a youtube from a person that Nebuchad is a big fan of. He takes the socialist look at it and does not delve into assumption. The TLDR is what we know for sure is genocide. That they are straight up gassing people is likely not happening.
The prompts were something like what are the cultures most marginalized and oppressed then I followed it up with which of these groups have it worst. I tried to keep it as general as possible to keep out my own biases.
Honestly I'm ready to go to wherever they are purportedly genociding Uyghurs and compare it to Gaza
If the only choices on this planet are going to be which genocidal regime are you going to fall in line behind, I at least need to be able fairly compare them.
I'm being facetious (I'll chill), but I think part of the problem (and the Red Note and DeepSeek exposure demonstrated this) is that most people in the US haven't updated their understanding of China from the generic 80's propaganda that's just been on repeat since then.
I'm confident China has plenty of serious problems, I'm also confident that the last ~40 years has demonstrated how socialism with Chinese characteristics has done so much better than capitalism in India or the US at helping the least among their societies confront those problems and work on fixing them.
Idk if I’d really class that as a particularly insensitive joke myself, but one’s mileage may vary.
I think he’s partly correct indeed, although my frustrations go a bit beyond what he’s expressing. There’s certainly a lot of anti-Chinese propaganda floating around, however I find the alternative is frequently just pro-Chinese propaganda. It’s hard to find things between these two poles. Least in my experience.
Your biases aren’t the problem here, those of others are. That’s something GPT can’t cut through and analyse properly, it’s a fundamental limitation of LLMs. I believe you absolutely do want as unbiased a synopsis as possible, and hey machines aren’t biased, but in reality they can be, sometimes massively so. Sometimes they outright make stuff up that sounds plausible, from basically thin air.
I’m sure you are aware of these pitfalls but in the off chance you weren’t:
For example, the Royhingha have a bullet for ‘recent genocide’. The Palestinians do not. I’m not here to argue if either fits the bill or not, but within Western discourse one is controversial and a prevalent topic, one is much less prevalent but is not controversial. As per my earlier crude analogy.
You don’t have many folks on the Western internet talking about Myanmar much, but equally you don’t have many (indeed genuinely never encountered it) who deny such a thing is happening, or claiming it’s justifiable.
You do get that with Israel/Palestine, and it’s going to influence the output of programs like Chat GPT potentially. Perhaps not.
If you gave me the exact prompt I’d be interested to see where it was pulling things from, if you can’t recall, no biggy
I’m not downplaying the plight of the Uighurs, I just don’t think China can eradicate that culture from the face of the Earth. It’s very fucking hard to do. Maybe policy even softens in the near future. Even if it doesn’t that culture will survive, even if it’s subjugated.
Much of this is in the same boat of course. Some of these feel at least resolvable, or at least reversible to some degree. Not for the individuals who’ve already suffered, or will in the interim until then.
The Uighurs in China aren’t generally separatists, so really all China’s rulers have to do is to take the boot away from continually kicking them in the head, and they’re gonna be sweet.
I don’t think that’s something Israel will do in the near future, but even if they did, that’s not going to resolve that conflict given Palestinians very much aren’t going to accept what compromises Israel could offer.
I think we approach some one-way, irreversible roads re aspects of that particular conundrum. Whatever territorial expansion/expulsion Israel does in the next few years, realistically I don’t see Palestinians returning subsequently. So I think it’s pretty crucial that compassion or war fatigue sees Israeli policy moderate a bit, and certainly not get more extreme.
I think it is important to also consider that I’m not judging these conflicts and their merits or otherwise, or collective suffering with this or my prior post.
It’s if I, with something like my current sensibilities were a Gazan, and I think they’ve got the worst hand. I can’t really do anything to improve my lot. Even if I’m happy to suppress my culture, it’s not going to change my current station. There’s also not really even a long, long shot to at least cling to. I cant even say ‘fuck this, shit is fucked, I’m out of here’ right now.
The other scenarios there’s not always very good options, and certainly not a selection that should be imposed on anyone, but there are at least some options
All I know is that I'd much rather be in the genocide that doesn't include bombs dropping on me and my children, guys sniping knees, shooting at crowds gathered for aid, being intentionally starved etc.
Neither situation is good and both of the states committing these genocides are extreme authoritarian and imperialistic powers that are on the wrong side of history and will be judged accordingly, of course, if they don't get to rewrite it after hand.
On June 05 2025 04:30 Jankisa wrote: All I know is that I'd much rather be in the genocide that doesn't include bombs dropping on me and my children, guys sniping knees, shooting at crowds gathered for aid, being intentionally starved etc.
Neither situation is good and both of the states committing these genocides are extreme authoritarian and imperialistic powers that are on the wrong side of history and will be judged accordingly, of course, if they don't get to rewrite it after hand.
The people of Gaza have it the worst no doubt. Being stuck in the front line of a hot war where one side is using you as human shields and happy to martyr you and the other at best gives no pause to your existence is as awful as it gets. Regardless of intentions.
On June 04 2025 22:44 Billyboy wrote: You are both really underselling the evil that is happening in China. If intent is your big go too then ChatGPT got it right because it is official government policy to erase them. You can be an extremist for things like the wrong name or having a irregular beard and sent to the reeducation camps. Children are taken from their families to be reeducated into the Chinese culture. That part alone makes our Canadian residential schools blush, and that was pretty fucken awful. Donèt trust the tankies who claim it is all capitalist propaganda, here is a youtube from a person that Nebuchad is a big fan of. He takes the socialist look at it and does not delve into assumption. The TLDR is what we know for sure is genocide. That they are straight up gassing people is likely not happening.
The prompts were something like what are the cultures most marginalized and oppressed then I followed it up with which of these groups have it worst. I tried to keep it as general as possible to keep out my own biases.
His joke
Honestly I'm ready to go to wherever they are purportedly genociding Uyghurs and compare it to Gaza
If the only choices on this planet are going to be which genocidal regime are you going to fall in line behind, I at least need to be able fairly compare them.
I'm being facetious (I'll chill), but I think part of the problem (and the Red Note and DeepSeek exposure demonstrated this) is that most people in the US haven't updated their understanding of China from the generic 80's propaganda that's just been on repeat since then.
I'm confident China has plenty of serious problems, I'm also confident that the last ~40 years has demonstrated how socialism with Chinese characteristics has done so much better than capitalism in India or the US at helping the least among their societies confront those problems and work on fixing them.
Idk if I’d really class that as a particularly insensitive joke myself, but one’s mileage may vary.
I think he’s partly correct indeed, although my frustrations go a bit beyond what he’s expressing. There’s certainly a lot of anti-Chinese propaganda floating around, however I find the alternative is frequently just pro-Chinese propaganda. It’s hard to find things between these two poles. Least in my experience.
Your biases aren’t the problem here, those of others are. That’s something GPT can’t cut through and analyse properly, it’s a fundamental limitation of LLMs. I believe you absolutely do want as unbiased a synopsis as possible, and hey machines aren’t biased, but in reality they can be, sometimes massively so. Sometimes they outright make stuff up that sounds plausible, from basically thin air.
I’m sure you are aware of these pitfalls but in the off chance you weren’t:
For example, the Royhingha have a bullet for ‘recent genocide’. The Palestinians do not. I’m not here to argue if either fits the bill or not, but within Western discourse one is controversial and a prevalent topic, one is much less prevalent but is not controversial. As per my earlier crude analogy.
You don’t have many folks on the Western internet talking about Myanmar much, but equally you don’t have many (indeed genuinely never encountered it) who deny such a thing is happening, or claiming it’s justifiable.
You do get that with Israel/Palestine, and it’s going to influence the output of programs like Chat GPT potentially. Perhaps not.
If you gave me the exact prompt I’d be interested to see where it was pulling things from, if you can’t recall, no biggy
I’m not downplaying the plight of the Uighurs, I just don’t think China can eradicate that culture from the face of the Earth. It’s very fucking hard to do. Maybe policy even softens in the near future. Even if it doesn’t that culture will survive, even if it’s subjugated.
Much of this is in the same boat of course. Some of these feel at least resolvable, or at least reversible to some degree. Not for the individuals who’ve already suffered, or will in the interim until then.
The Uighurs in China aren’t generally separatists, so really all China’s rulers have to do is to take the boot away from continually kicking them in the head, and they’re gonna be sweet.
I don’t think that’s something Israel will do in the near future, but even if they did, that’s not going to resolve that conflict given Palestinians very much aren’t going to accept what compromises Israel could offer.
I think we approach some one-way, irreversible roads re aspects of that particular conundrum. Whatever territorial expansion/expulsion Israel does in the next few years, realistically I don’t see Palestinians returning subsequently. So I think it’s pretty crucial that compassion or war fatigue sees Israeli policy moderate a bit, and certainly not get more extreme.
I think it is important to also consider that I’m not judging these conflicts and their merits or otherwise, or collective suffering with this or my prior post.
It’s if I, with something like my current sensibilities were a Gazan, and I think they’ve got the worst hand. I can’t really do anything to improve my lot. Even if I’m happy to suppress my culture, it’s not going to change my current station. There’s also not really even a long, long shot to at least cling to. I cant even say ‘fuck this, shit is fucked, I’m out of here’ right now.
The other scenarios there’s not always very good options, and certainly not a selection that should be imposed on anyone, but there are at least some options
Most of this fine, but the bolded part is real bad. The Uyghurs just want to exist and that is enough of a reason for the Chinese government to have official genocidal policy. The problem is they do not have
correct thought
. something like 98% of them live in China, so if China succeeds they will basically be gone. The video I linked barely touches on the rumors or guesses on the intent, it sticks to the policies and documents from the government to make its case. The Uyghurs in China have it 1000x worse than the Palestinians in Israel, it is not even close.
China keeps such a grasp on communication and information that you are never going to see any talk of separating. They can not have the wrong name, wrong beard, think extreme thoughts, let alone organize in any meaningful way. And for the most part the world is either blissfully unaware or simply ignoring it because of what China does for them.
I tried a couple of different iterations of prompts and they were all slightly different but the top three and their order stayed the same. This was
Ranking the suffering or marginalization of different groups is deeply complex and somewhat subjective. However, using key metrics like state violence, displacement, statelessness, genocide risk, and denial of basic human rights, here’s a reasoned ranking based on severity, urgency, and scale as of 2025:
1. Rohingya (Myanmar/Bangladesh) Why #1: Victims of an internationally recognized genocide. Over 1 million live in squalid refugee camps in Bangladesh. They are stateless, persecuted, and trapped in limbo with no repatriation or future.
Key indicators: Genocide, statelessness, extreme poverty, no protection.
2. Uyghurs (China) Why #2: Victims of a mass surveillance police state and accused genocide. Over 1 million detained in camps; widespread forced labor, family separation, and cultural erasure.
Key indicators: Cultural genocide, mass internment, systemic surveillance, state repression.
3. Palestinians (Gaza/West Bank) Why #3: Victims of a long-term military occupation and repeated wars (especially in Gaza, most recently 2023–24), with extreme humanitarian crises, especially due to Israeli blockade and war policies.
Key indicators: Statelessness, displacement, military violence, blockade, apartheid-like systems (per major human rights orgs like Amnesty & HRW).
4. Stateless People (Kurds, Bidoon, Sahrawis) Why #4: Statelessness leaves entire populations without legal protection or political power. Kurds face repression across several countries. Sahrawis live under Moroccan occupation or in refugee camps.
Key indicators: Statelessness, occupation, cultural repression, abandonment by international community.
5. Dalits (India/Nepal) Why #5: Over 200 million people face daily caste-based discrimination, with lynchings, rapes, and exclusions still widespread despite legal protections.
Key indicators: Structural oppression, violence, social exclusion across generations.
6. Indigenous Peoples (Global) Why #6: Land theft, environmental destruction, and neglect continue. High suicide rates, poor health, and cultural genocide persist in many countries.
Key indicators: Historical genocide, ongoing neglect and poverty, dispossession.
7. Roma (Europe) Why #7: Systemic exclusion from housing, education, and healthcare. Widespread racism and forced evictions continue, especially in Eastern Europe.
Key indicators: Institutional racism, poverty, social isolation.
8. African Diaspora (Americas/Europe) Why #8: Persistent structural racism, including police brutality (e.g., U.S.), economic disparity, and mass incarceration.
Key indicators: Systemic racism, economic disenfranchisement, violence (but usually with legal nationality and some institutional recourse).
9. LGBTQ+ People (Africa, MENA, Asia) Why #9: In some countries, face execution, imprisonment, or mob violence. In others, increasing legal rights exist. This group’s status varies wildly by region.
Key indicators: Legal persecution, social violence, hate crimes (but global progress in some places).
10. People with Disabilities (Global) Why #10: Universal marginalization exists, but less often accompanied by direct violence or statelessness. In many regions, advocacy and legal protections are growing.
Key indicators: Inaccessibility, neglect, exclusion—but generally recognized by legal systems.
Summary Table: Rank Group Primary Factors 1 Rohingya Genocide, stateless 2 Uyghurs Mass detention, cultural genocide 3 Palestinians Occupation, war, statelessness 4 Stateless Peoples Legal invisibility, repression 5 Dalits Caste violence, systemic exclusion 6 Indigenous Peoples Land loss, cultural erasure 7 Roma Racism, poverty, eviction 8 African Diaspora Systemic racism, incarceration 9 LGBTQ+ (Global South) Legal execution, persecution 10 Disabled People Neglect, inaccessibility
So Israel is now arming opposition to Hamas in Gaza. That could mean that they are finally starting to accept some need for local Palestinian power. Of course there is no telling if these guns won't be turned on IDF one day.
On June 06 2025 19:23 pmp10 wrote: So Israel is now arming opposition to Hamas in Gaza. That could mean that they are finally starting to accept some need for local Palestinian power. Of course there is no telling if these guns won't be turned on IDF one day.
"The Israeli government is giving weapons to a group of criminals and felons, identified with the Islamic State group,"
That they're basically arming ISIS/ISIL seems like an important detail.
On June 06 2025 19:23 pmp10 wrote: So Israel is now arming opposition to Hamas in Gaza. That could mean that they are finally starting to accept some need for local Palestinian power. Of course there is no telling if these guns won't be turned on IDF one day.
Well, once they "eliminate" Hamas they can just claim that they have to continue the war because now this next group is who is threatening Israel's security.
On June 06 2025 19:23 pmp10 wrote: So Israel is now arming opposition to Hamas in Gaza. That could mean that they are finally starting to accept some need for local Palestinian power. Of course there is no telling if these guns won't be turned on IDF one day.
Well, once they "eliminate" Hamas they can just claim that they have to continue the war because now this next group is who is threatening Israel's security.
It's incredibly cynical.
Depends if they eventually attack Israel or not. Israel was pretty happy to let Hamas operate until Oct 7th. As to them being like ISIS, as usual no source. From what I can see they are a gang that opposes Hamas but seems to do the same shit Hamas does. I am doubtful there is a good group to support at this point. I agree with pmp10 though, any look towards a future of Gaza without the IDF is likely a step forward.
If they exist, there aren’t really great sources on this. Or at least it would take some digging.
There’s a fair amount of ‘it’s alleged/rumoured’ lines but very little of substance really. This bloke and his group are pretty new on the block by the sounds of it, and a relatively unknown quantity
This is more or less what ceasefire people want. They want Israel to be able to leave Gaza but they don't want to support Hamas and so they need a third option. If Israel was going to find an alternative Gazan group willing to contest the Hamas monopoly on violence then they'd need to be pretty violent themselves, and well armed.
That doesn't mean this is good, but it does mean that it's expected on the path to Israel withdrawing. Until the next time of course.
EPT
