Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine - Page 415

On June 01 2025 00:37 Jankisa wrote:


How is "free hostages" goal close?

On June 01 2025 03:26 pmp10 wrote:

Simple - the number of hostages is slowly dropping.
The latest talks discussed freeing another 10 out of likely 20 alive.
The current tactics will continue until all hostages will be either free or dead, leaving Hamas with absolutely no leverage.

When we get there we will see what unrestrained Israel is capable of.

On June 01 2025 06:49 Ciaus237 wrote:
It's very odd to believe that either "destruction of Hamas" (whatever that means in practice) or return of the hostages, or both, would end the war. Israel is actively expanding into the West Bank, at greater speed than ever before. Further conflict from that alone is inevitable. It's a move that's very likely to encourage Palestinians in the West Bank to militarize. Even if its not Hamas, whoever is governing the region after another few years of aggressive encroachment is going to be more like Hamas than the current PA.

Israel announces major expansion of settlements in occupied West Bank

On June 01 2025 07:22 GreenHorizons wrote:

As far as I can tell, there is already no distinction made by most people between the worst/long dead members of Hamas and any Palestinian that decides on armed resistance to being genocided/ethnically cleansed by Israelis.

It's not like the West would approve of a secular Palestinian defence force righteously defending Palestinians against the current genocidal Israeli occupiers.

On June 01 2025 00:37 Jankisa wrote:


How is "free hostages" goal close? I mean Hamas has been pretty consistent in killing them before Israel can free them. IIRC only one successful rescue was done and it got 8 hostages free, what are the chances that there will be another one where Hamas doesn't kill the hostages before IDF gets to them?

Hamas is not just a bunch of guys, how is this still a thing? Even if IDF kills every single member there will be more coming after them, that's how radicalization works, those guys become martyrs and more people flock to the cause.

Israel has stated, matter of factly that they don't really want any furhter negotiations for hostages and that the war will go on even after they are all free, that doesn't really seem to jive with "free the hostages" goal.

Hundreds of military experts, historians, politicians etc. have noted that the "End Hamas" goal is not possible, it seems evident to everyone except people like you who tow the IDF line closely that the war is ongoing because Nethyanahu doesn't want to face the music.

On June 01 2025 06:49 Ciaus237 wrote:
It's very odd to believe that either "destruction of Hamas" (whatever that means in practice) or return of the hostages, or both, would end the war. Israel is actively expanding into the West Bank, at greater speed than ever before. Further conflict from that alone is inevitable. It's a move that's very likely to encourage Palestinians in the West Bank to militarize. Even if its not Hamas, whoever is governing the region after another few years of aggressive encroachment is going to be more like Hamas than the current PA.

Israel announces major expansion of settlements in occupied West Bank

On June 01 2025 08:01 KwarK wrote:

Would those righteous defenders still have committed the October 7 atrocities, use rape as a weapon of war, and take hostages?

I feel like you're completely wrong here, October 7 had a huge impact on the situation. The immorality of Hamas makes their cause very difficult to support and there is no alternative government in Gaza.

A member of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's Likud party, speaking Monday at a meeting of lawmakers, justified the rape and abuse of Palestinian prisoners, shouting angrily at colleagues questioning the alleged behavior that anything was legitimate to do to "terrorists" in custody.

Lawmaker Hanoch Milwidsky was asked as he defended the alleged abuse whether it was legitimate, "to insert a stick into a person's rectum?"

"Yes!" he shouted in reply to his fellow parliamentarian. "If he is a Nukhba [Hamas militant], everything is legitimate to do! Everything!"

On June 02 2025 00:18 GreenHorizons wrote:
Not clear what specifically you think was wrong in that post?

Otherwise, "The Oct 7 atrocities" is a bit vague in that hundreds of those killed were legitimate military targets, Israel killed an untold number of their own civilians, as well as habitually lied about what happened on Oct 7.

Rape isn't a legitimate weapon of war, so I'd say no. On the other hand, many Israelis do think rape is a legit weapon of war



www.cbsnews.com

I think they'd basically be called "prisoners" rather than "hostages".

On June 02 2025 00:36 Legan wrote:


There would be claims of atrocities anyway, and Israel would not spend much time saying otherwise. Any videos would need to be really clean, but that could require such training that is impossible to organise in Gaza. Any larger training area would be too obvious a target, and activity on it would be a massive indication of a future operation. There still would be instances where individual units would commit war crimes. We must remember that most fighters are young men joining because the situation is really bad, and there is no hope of a better future.

Considering that Palestinians have very little to negotiate with and how important hostages have been, they would take hostages. Destroying military resources and infrastructure only matters if it can be repeated frequently. Destroying one tank or plane does not affect Israel at all, and there will not be a change in their policies. You would need to be able to destroy them in really high numbers, and we know Palestinians do not have the resources to do so. Limiting your attacks only to hardened military targets will make you waste your manpower. This is why the rockets are being used. Launching one takes only a little time, which allows you to evade counterattacks. Thus, they would still go after softer targets.

The idea that Palestinians would get any practical support for being more proper in their ways is laughable when you look at how little support the much more peaceful West Bank receives. The demands will look like snobbery when people won't analyse the Palestinian position at all. "If the slaves were just more civilised, they could easily argue and prove why they need to be freed. Their barbarism is what is holding back their causes for better treatment."

On June 02 2025 00:57 KwarK wrote:

Not a supporter of when Israel does it either.

What was wrong in your post was your speculation about the hypothetical that it posed. Let's say that Gaza had a legitimate democratic government and operated as a functional state with functioning state organs, that the government wasn't a bunch of genocidal death cultists, and that the army weren't indoctrinated suicide bombers. And let's say that this Gazan state was invaded, unprovoked, by Israel. In that world I believe that a lot of countries in the west treat it much the same way as we treat Ukraine. Neither of us can prove our hypothesis here but I disagree that the west would be equally paralyzed if Gaza had a legitimate government instead of Hamas.

The problem with opposing Israel in Gaza isn't that nobody wants to oppose Israel, it's who the fuck do you actually support against them? A ceasefire is by definition keeping Hamas in power in Gaza. Arming Hamas is obviously a non starter.