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On June 06 2025 19:23 pmp10 wrote: So Israel is now arming opposition to Hamas in Gaza. That could mean that they are finally starting to accept some need for local Palestinian power. Of course there is no telling if these guns won't be turned on IDF one day.
Well, once they "eliminate" Hamas they can just claim that they have to continue the war because now this next group is who is threatening Israel's security.
It's incredibly cynical.
The question is more if we'll be able to speedrun their talking points next time or if we'll still have to slug through self-defense arguments. There is no obvious answer for this, you can get the spokesman destroyed on Sky News and that feels like a change, but at the same time Mamdani still gets criticized by the moderators because he doesn't support ethnostates.
I don't think there will be a "next time". The plan is for "this time" to never end and for competing jihad dipshits to keep shooting each other while Israel lets settlers keep on settling. So long as Israeli land keeps growing, Palestinians get more condensed, and the dust never settles, Israel can keep up their ethnic cleansing.
In many ways, the current situation is better than big grand land grabs. A carefully balanced civil war where they continue to suffer, starve, and die makes the land grabs easier. The only thing Israel wants to prevent right now is a stable Palestinian government. And that is very easy with the state of things. Its hard to imagine them fumbling this situation they have right now.
On June 10 2025 22:55 Jockmcplop wrote: International sanctions incoming for Ben-Gvir and Smotrich Fully deserved.
A sensible move from the UK, I’m assuming other nations are set to follow?
While I might personally want them to go further again, I think it’s a pretty judicious way to do it.
By sanctioning specific individuals who seem utterly reprehensible, rather than more broadly, it’s kinda hard to frame this as a hostile move to Israel itself. No doubt some will try mind.
On June 10 2025 22:55 Jockmcplop wrote: International sanctions incoming for Ben-Gvir and Smotrich Fully deserved.
A sensible move from the UK, I’m assuming other nations are set to follow?
While I might personally want them to go further again, I think it’s a pretty judicious way to do it.
By sanctioning specific individuals who seem utterly reprehensible, rather than more broadly, it’s kinda hard to frame this as a hostile move to Israel itself. No doubt some will try mind.
Seems Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Norway are who is joining.
It's obviously far too little, and far too late. It's also not really about Gaza, it's about the West Bank. That said, it is a bit of a canary in the coal mine for stepping a little out of line as vassals to the US under this retracting US regime.
On June 10 2025 22:55 Jockmcplop wrote: International sanctions incoming for Ben-Gvir and Smotrich Fully deserved.
A sensible move from the UK, I’m assuming other nations are set to follow?
While I might personally want them to go further again, I think it’s a pretty judicious way to do it.
By sanctioning specific individuals who seem utterly reprehensible, rather than more broadly, it’s kinda hard to frame this as a hostile move to Israel itself. No doubt some will try mind.
Seems Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Norway are who is joining.
It's obviously far too little, and far too late. It's also not really about Gaza, it's about the West Bank. That said, it is a bit of a canary in the coal mine for stepping a little out of line as vassals to the US under this retracting US regime.
How are Norway and New Zealand especially vassals of the United States?
I’d agree that it’s too little, too late, 100%. But the same is true for much of the globe, many of whom have done even less here.
On June 10 2025 22:55 Jockmcplop wrote: International sanctions incoming for Ben-Gvir and Smotrich Fully deserved.
A sensible move from the UK, I’m assuming other nations are set to follow?
While I might personally want them to go further again, I think it’s a pretty judicious way to do it.
By sanctioning specific individuals who seem utterly reprehensible, rather than more broadly, it’s kinda hard to frame this as a hostile move to Israel itself. No doubt some will try mind.
Seems Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Norway are who is joining.
It's obviously far too little, and far too late. It's also not really about Gaza, it's about the West Bank. That said, it is a bit of a canary in the coal mine for stepping a little out of line as vassals to the US under this retracting US regime.
How are Norway and New Zealand especially vassals of the United States?
I’d agree that it’s too little, too late, 100%. But the same is true for much of the globe, many of whom have done even less here.
The US's racial capitalist global hegemony that makes any of its allies taking any unapproved position outside of US foreign policy orthodoxy dangerous to that allies' global standing because of their dependence on their relationships with the US.
I'd bet Norway would be doing much more were it not fearful for how the US might interpret/react to much tougher/wider sanctions.
On June 10 2025 22:55 Jockmcplop wrote: International sanctions incoming for Ben-Gvir and Smotrich Fully deserved.
A sensible move from the UK, I’m assuming other nations are set to follow?
While I might personally want them to go further again, I think it’s a pretty judicious way to do it.
By sanctioning specific individuals who seem utterly reprehensible, rather than more broadly, it’s kinda hard to frame this as a hostile move to Israel itself. No doubt some will try mind.
Seems Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Norway are who is joining.
It's obviously far too little, and far too late. It's also not really about Gaza, it's about the West Bank. That said, it is a bit of a canary in the coal mine for stepping a little out of line as vassals to the US under this retracting US regime.
How are Norway and New Zealand especially vassals of the United States?
I’d agree that it’s too little, too late, 100%. But the same is true for much of the globe, many of whom have done even less here.
The US's racial capitalist global hegemony that makes any of its allies taking any unapproved position outside of US foreign policy orthodoxy dangerous to that allies' global standing because of their dependence on their relationships with the US.
I'd bet Norway would be doing much more were it not fearful for how the US might interpret/react to much tougher/wider sanctions.
What much tougher sanctions should ANZAC nations and EU nations go to in your opinion?
While I don’t think it’s sufficient myself, it’s a clear divergence from US policy, that’s actually happened.
Plenty of the ‘global South’ are doing the square root of fuck all, some are doing the right thing.
Of great powers with a bunch of individual sway in the modern era, well there’s two of them, and the US is stanning for Israel and China isn’t exactly doing a huge amount to counteract that.
I’m personally on board with a critique based in ‘not enough’, would be my position. But you seem to be more critical of nations who are at least doing something and letting others skate
Trump diverting a ton of military stuff from Ukraine to Israel, all the recent negotiations, and now indicating the US is no longer pursuing an independent Palestinian state. Maybe its all just optics and negotiation bluster. But it is looking like things are going to get much worse very soon.
On June 10 2025 22:55 Jockmcplop wrote: International sanctions incoming for Ben-Gvir and Smotrich Fully deserved.
A sensible move from the UK, I’m assuming other nations are set to follow?
While I might personally want them to go further again, I think it’s a pretty judicious way to do it.
By sanctioning specific individuals who seem utterly reprehensible, rather than more broadly, it’s kinda hard to frame this as a hostile move to Israel itself. No doubt some will try mind.
Seems Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Norway are who is joining.
It's obviously far too little, and far too late. It's also not really about Gaza, it's about the West Bank. That said, it is a bit of a canary in the coal mine for stepping a little out of line as vassals to the US under this retracting US regime.
How are Norway and New Zealand especially vassals of the United States?
I’d agree that it’s too little, too late, 100%. But the same is true for much of the globe, many of whom have done even less here.
The US's racial capitalist global hegemony that makes any of its allies taking any unapproved position outside of US foreign policy orthodoxy dangerous to that allies' global standing because of their dependence on their relationships with the US.
I'd bet Norway would be doing much more were it not fearful for how the US might interpret/react to much tougher/wider sanctions.
What much tougher sanctions should ANZAC nations and EU nations go to in your opinion?
While I don’t think it’s sufficient myself, it’s a clear divergence from US policy, that’s actually happened.
Plenty of the ‘global South’ are doing the square root of fuck all, some are doing the right thing.
Of great powers with a bunch of individual sway in the modern era, well there’s two of them, and the US is stanning for Israel and China isn’t exactly doing a huge amount to counteract that.
I’m personally on board with a critique based in ‘not enough’, would be my position. But you seem to be more critical of nations who are at least doing something and letting others skate
Rationally, the ANZAC nations and EU nations sanctions on Israel should be more comparable to those on Russia. Netanyahu (and several others) certainly shouldn't be escaping these personalized sanctions (it should be noted we don't know what they are and when/how/whether they will be implemented afaict).
China and Israel have had a complicated relationship over the years (this is just one non-comprehensive summary) but it's pretty clear China has been moving away from Israel and recent events are only accelerating that.
On June 10 2025 22:55 Jockmcplop wrote: International sanctions incoming for Ben-Gvir and Smotrich Fully deserved.
A sensible move from the UK, I’m assuming other nations are set to follow?
While I might personally want them to go further again, I think it’s a pretty judicious way to do it.
By sanctioning specific individuals who seem utterly reprehensible, rather than more broadly, it’s kinda hard to frame this as a hostile move to Israel itself. No doubt some will try mind.
Seems Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Norway are who is joining.
It's obviously far too little, and far too late. It's also not really about Gaza, it's about the West Bank. That said, it is a bit of a canary in the coal mine for stepping a little out of line as vassals to the US under this retracting US regime.
How are Norway and New Zealand especially vassals of the United States?
I’d agree that it’s too little, too late, 100%. But the same is true for much of the globe, many of whom have done even less here.
The US's racial capitalist global hegemony that makes any of its allies taking any unapproved position outside of US foreign policy orthodoxy dangerous to that allies' global standing because of their dependence on their relationships with the US.
I'd bet Norway would be doing much more were it not fearful for how the US might interpret/react to much tougher/wider sanctions.
What much tougher sanctions should ANZAC nations and EU nations go to in your opinion?
While I don’t think it’s sufficient myself, it’s a clear divergence from US policy, that’s actually happened.
Plenty of the ‘global South’ are doing the square root of fuck all, some are doing the right thing.
Of great powers with a bunch of individual sway in the modern era, well there’s two of them, and the US is stanning for Israel and China isn’t exactly doing a huge amount to counteract that.
I’m personally on board with a critique based in ‘not enough’, would be my position. But you seem to be more critical of nations who are at least doing something and letting others skate
Rationally, the ANZAC nations and EU nations sanctions on Israel should be more comparable to those on Russia. Netanyahu (and several others) certainly shouldn't be escaping these personalized sanctions (it should be noted we don't know what they are and when/how/whether they will be implemented afaict).
China and Israel have had a complicated relationship over the years (this is just one non-comprehensive summary) but it's pretty clear China has been moving away from Israel and recent events are only accelerating that.
They’ve still done much less, and why is it complicated? Europe has many nations with very sizeable Jewish populations to consider, not really a political dynamic the Chinese have to grapple with.
Why do Europeans and non-US ANZAC nations have to go bat for Palestinian’s out of the goodness of their hearts, but if it’s someone else suddenly it’s some case of nuance and practicality?
I’d personally be in favour of a Russian level of ostracisation, but there’s pretty obvious reasons as to why that’s occurred in one case. Russia is literally in Europe, and is being actively antagonistic. Israel yes, behaving reprehensibly and should be being opposed, they’re not a threat to European security.
On June 10 2025 22:55 Jockmcplop wrote: International sanctions incoming for Ben-Gvir and Smotrich Fully deserved.
A sensible move from the UK, I’m assuming other nations are set to follow?
While I might personally want them to go further again, I think it’s a pretty judicious way to do it.
By sanctioning specific individuals who seem utterly reprehensible, rather than more broadly, it’s kinda hard to frame this as a hostile move to Israel itself. No doubt some will try mind.
Seems Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Norway are who is joining.
It's obviously far too little, and far too late. It's also not really about Gaza, it's about the West Bank. That said, it is a bit of a canary in the coal mine for stepping a little out of line as vassals to the US under this retracting US regime.
How are Norway and New Zealand especially vassals of the United States?
I’d agree that it’s too little, too late, 100%. But the same is true for much of the globe, many of whom have done even less here.
The US's racial capitalist global hegemony that makes any of its allies taking any unapproved position outside of US foreign policy orthodoxy dangerous to that allies' global standing because of their dependence on their relationships with the US.
I'd bet Norway would be doing much more were it not fearful for how the US might interpret/react to much tougher/wider sanctions.
What much tougher sanctions should ANZAC nations and EU nations go to in your opinion?
While I don’t think it’s sufficient myself, it’s a clear divergence from US policy, that’s actually happened.
Plenty of the ‘global South’ are doing the square root of fuck all, some are doing the right thing.
Of great powers with a bunch of individual sway in the modern era, well there’s two of them, and the US is stanning for Israel and China isn’t exactly doing a huge amount to counteract that.
I’m personally on board with a critique based in ‘not enough’, would be my position. But you seem to be more critical of nations who are at least doing something and letting others skate
Rationally, the ANZAC nations and EU nations sanctions on Israel should be more comparable to those on Russia. Netanyahu (and several others) certainly shouldn't be escaping these personalized sanctions (it should be noted we don't know what they are and when/how/whether they will be implemented afaict).
China and Israel have had a complicated relationship over the years (this is just one non-comprehensive summary) but it's pretty clear China has been moving away from Israel and recent events are only accelerating that.
They’ve still done much less, and why is it complicated? Europe has many nations with very sizeable Jewish populations to consider, not really a political dynamic the Chinese have to grapple with.
Why do Europeans and non-US ANZAC nations have to go bat for Palestinian’s out of the goodness of their hearts, but if it’s someone else suddenly it’s some case of nuance and practicality?
I’d personally be in favour of a Russian level of ostracisation, but there’s pretty obvious reasons as to why that’s occurred in one case. Russia is literally in Europe, and is being actively antagonistic. Israel yes, behaving reprehensibly and should be being opposed, they’re not a threat to European security.
Did you read the link? Basically, Israel has been double dealing for decades and the US finally made them choose and they chose the US/West.
I feel like these (whataboutism) questions are more out of frustration than good faith. Not sure how you're measuring or what you're expecting when you say "done much less". China isn't the international interventionalists that the US/West has been for the last ~100 years, so of course they are going to have a different role.
As for me personally, surely you understand how it makes more sense for me to discuss my thoughts about the US's and Europe's role with people in the US/Europe that ostensibly could influence their peers/governments vs pissing into the wind about China to distract from that instead?
I just listened to a pretty good interview with still, a very much Zionist ex Prime minister of Israel who basically started the interview by acknowledging that Israel's current goal are ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from Gaza and the West Bank.
I honestly hope this starts dawning on people, but I'm not hopeful, I know that it's kind of preaching to the people who already agree with this but I thought it was a very insightful podcast that goes into potential, albeit currently unrealistic solutions:
On June 11 2025 09:08 Mohdoo wrote: Trump diverting a ton of military stuff from Ukraine to Israel, all the recent negotiations, and now indicating the US is no longer pursuing an independent Palestinian state. Maybe its all just optics and negotiation bluster. But it is looking like things are going to get much worse very soon.
A reminder that Trump is President. Last time he moved the US embassy to Jerusalem, a move so pro-Israel even Israel went 'wow that's a bit much'.
But hey, people felt they couldn't vote for Harris because she wasn't pro-Palestine enough...
On June 10 2025 22:55 Jockmcplop wrote: International sanctions incoming for Ben-Gvir and Smotrich Fully deserved.
A sensible move from the UK, I’m assuming other nations are set to follow?
While I might personally want them to go further again, I think it’s a pretty judicious way to do it.
By sanctioning specific individuals who seem utterly reprehensible, rather than more broadly, it’s kinda hard to frame this as a hostile move to Israel itself. No doubt some will try mind.
Seems Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Norway are who is joining.
It's obviously far too little, and far too late. It's also not really about Gaza, it's about the West Bank. That said, it is a bit of a canary in the coal mine for stepping a little out of line as vassals to the US under this retracting US regime.
How are Norway and New Zealand especially vassals of the United States?
I’d agree that it’s too little, too late, 100%. But the same is true for much of the globe, many of whom have done even less here.
The US's racial capitalist global hegemony that makes any of its allies taking any unapproved position outside of US foreign policy orthodoxy dangerous to that allies' global standing because of their dependence on their relationships with the US.
I'd bet Norway would be doing much more were it not fearful for how the US might interpret/react to much tougher/wider sanctions.
What much tougher sanctions should ANZAC nations and EU nations go to in your opinion?
While I don’t think it’s sufficient myself, it’s a clear divergence from US policy, that’s actually happened.
Plenty of the ‘global South’ are doing the square root of fuck all, some are doing the right thing.
Of great powers with a bunch of individual sway in the modern era, well there’s two of them, and the US is stanning for Israel and China isn’t exactly doing a huge amount to counteract that.
I’m personally on board with a critique based in ‘not enough’, would be my position. But you seem to be more critical of nations who are at least doing something and letting others skate
Rationally, the ANZAC nations and EU nations sanctions on Israel should be more comparable to those on Russia. Netanyahu (and several others) certainly shouldn't be escaping these personalized sanctions (it should be noted we don't know what they are and when/how/whether they will be implemented afaict).
China and Israel have had a complicated relationship over the years (this is just one non-comprehensive summary) but it's pretty clear China has been moving away from Israel and recent events are only accelerating that.
Are you kidding. China a country currently having a super organized and disgusting government ran ethnic cleansing program and openly wanting to expand its boarders is making a ethical decision to stop ties with Israel. You do not think it has to do with what your article said, US pressure on Israel to provide military tech to China and that China and Iran are allies with China buying most of their oil. Come on man.
On June 11 2025 09:08 Mohdoo wrote: Trump diverting a ton of military stuff from Ukraine to Israel, all the recent negotiations, and now indicating the US is no longer pursuing an independent Palestinian state. Maybe its all just optics and negotiation bluster. But it is looking like things are going to get much worse very soon.
A reminder that Trump is President. Last time he moved the US embassy to Jerusalem, a move so pro-Israel even Israel went 'wow that's a bit much'.
But hey, people felt they couldn't vote for Harris because she wasn't pro-Palestine enough...
It's actually that Harris wanted to support genocide more than she wanted to beat Trump. She could have went with popular opinion instead.
According to a June 5-7 poll from CBS News, 61% of Americans oppose sending weapons and supplies to Israel, including 77% of Democrats and 62% of Independents.
On June 11 2025 09:08 Mohdoo wrote: Trump diverting a ton of military stuff from Ukraine to Israel, all the recent negotiations, and now indicating the US is no longer pursuing an independent Palestinian state. Maybe its all just optics and negotiation bluster. But it is looking like things are going to get much worse very soon.
A reminder that Trump is President. Last time he moved the US embassy to Jerusalem, a move so pro-Israel even Israel went 'wow that's a bit much'.
But hey, people felt they couldn't vote for Harris because she wasn't pro-Palestine enough...
Hopefully the Dems learn from this obvious strategical mistake and next time they field someone who is more clearly pro-Palestine.
On June 10 2025 22:55 Jockmcplop wrote: International sanctions incoming for Ben-Gvir and Smotrich Fully deserved.
A sensible move from the UK, I’m assuming other nations are set to follow?
While I might personally want them to go further again, I think it’s a pretty judicious way to do it.
By sanctioning specific individuals who seem utterly reprehensible, rather than more broadly, it’s kinda hard to frame this as a hostile move to Israel itself. No doubt some will try mind.
Seems Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Norway are who is joining.
It's obviously far too little, and far too late. It's also not really about Gaza, it's about the West Bank. That said, it is a bit of a canary in the coal mine for stepping a little out of line as vassals to the US under this retracting US regime.
How are Norway and New Zealand especially vassals of the United States?
I’d agree that it’s too little, too late, 100%. But the same is true for much of the globe, many of whom have done even less here.
The US's racial capitalist global hegemony that makes any of its allies taking any unapproved position outside of US foreign policy orthodoxy dangerous to that allies' global standing because of their dependence on their relationships with the US.
I'd bet Norway would be doing much more were it not fearful for how the US might interpret/react to much tougher/wider sanctions.
What much tougher sanctions should ANZAC nations and EU nations go to in your opinion?
While I don’t think it’s sufficient myself, it’s a clear divergence from US policy, that’s actually happened.
Plenty of the ‘global South’ are doing the square root of fuck all, some are doing the right thing.
Of great powers with a bunch of individual sway in the modern era, well there’s two of them, and the US is stanning for Israel and China isn’t exactly doing a huge amount to counteract that.
I’m personally on board with a critique based in ‘not enough’, would be my position. But you seem to be more critical of nations who are at least doing something and letting others skate
Rationally, the ANZAC nations and EU nations sanctions on Israel should be more comparable to those on Russia. Netanyahu (and several others) certainly shouldn't be escaping these personalized sanctions (it should be noted we don't know what they are and when/how/whether they will be implemented afaict).
China and Israel have had a complicated relationship over the years (this is just one non-comprehensive summary) but it's pretty clear China has been moving away from Israel and recent events are only accelerating that.
They’ve still done much less, and why is it complicated? Europe has many nations with very sizeable Jewish populations to consider, not really a political dynamic the Chinese have to grapple with.
Why do Europeans and non-US ANZAC nations have to go bat for Palestinian’s out of the goodness of their hearts, but if it’s someone else suddenly it’s some case of nuance and practicality?
I’d personally be in favour of a Russian level of ostracisation, but there’s pretty obvious reasons as to why that’s occurred in one case. Russia is literally in Europe, and is being actively antagonistic. Israel yes, behaving reprehensibly and should be being opposed, they’re not a threat to European security.
Did you read the link? Basically, Israel has been double dealing for decades and the US finally made them choose and they chose the US/West.
I feel like these (whataboutism) questions are more out of frustration than good faith. Not sure how you're measuring or what you're expecting when you say "done much less". China isn't the international interventionalists that the US/West has been for the last ~100 years, so of course they are going to have a different role.
As for me personally, surely you understand how it makes more sense for me to discuss my thoughts about the US's and Europe's role with people in the US/Europe that ostensibly could influence their peers/governments vs pissing into the wind about China to distract from that instead?
I wouldn’t consider that especially whataboutery. I’m not saying ‘what about x other thing?’ I’m asking why you seem to apply different analytical frameworks to different scenarios.
It leads to a perception of inconsistency, which then rears its head any time you raise certain things. Even things I agree with. And seems to be something you don’t especially address, but simultaneously wonder why people aren’t receptive to your missives. Or, alternatively a consistent worldview that is based with ‘US bad’ as the central pillar.
I did read the link, it’s all very transactional politics.
I didn’t jump to mentioning China for any other reason other than as a singular state it’s amongst the world’s most powerful, and it’s not exactly best buddies with the USA.
It has those two characteristics that many individual European nations lack. The clout to push things as a singular state, and without certain entanglements with the US.
On June 10 2025 22:55 Jockmcplop wrote: International sanctions incoming for Ben-Gvir and Smotrich Fully deserved.
A sensible move from the UK, I’m assuming other nations are set to follow?
While I might personally want them to go further again, I think it’s a pretty judicious way to do it.
By sanctioning specific individuals who seem utterly reprehensible, rather than more broadly, it’s kinda hard to frame this as a hostile move to Israel itself. No doubt some will try mind.
Seems Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Norway are who is joining.
It's obviously far too little, and far too late. It's also not really about Gaza, it's about the West Bank. That said, it is a bit of a canary in the coal mine for stepping a little out of line as vassals to the US under this retracting US regime.
How are Norway and New Zealand especially vassals of the United States?
I’d agree that it’s too little, too late, 100%. But the same is true for much of the globe, many of whom have done even less here.
The US's racial capitalist global hegemony that makes any of its allies taking any unapproved position outside of US foreign policy orthodoxy dangerous to that allies' global standing because of their dependence on their relationships with the US.
I'd bet Norway would be doing much more were it not fearful for how the US might interpret/react to much tougher/wider sanctions.
What much tougher sanctions should ANZAC nations and EU nations go to in your opinion?
While I don’t think it’s sufficient myself, it’s a clear divergence from US policy, that’s actually happened.
Plenty of the ‘global South’ are doing the square root of fuck all, some are doing the right thing.
Of great powers with a bunch of individual sway in the modern era, well there’s two of them, and the US is stanning for Israel and China isn’t exactly doing a huge amount to counteract that.
I’m personally on board with a critique based in ‘not enough’, would be my position. But you seem to be more critical of nations who are at least doing something and letting others skate
Rationally, the ANZAC nations and EU nations sanctions on Israel should be more comparable to those on Russia. Netanyahu (and several others) certainly shouldn't be escaping these personalized sanctions (it should be noted we don't know what they are and when/how/whether they will be implemented afaict).
China and Israel have had a complicated relationship over the years (this is just one non-comprehensive summary) but it's pretty clear China has been moving away from Israel and recent events are only accelerating that.
They’ve still done much less, and why is it complicated? Europe has many nations with very sizeable Jewish populations to consider, not really a political dynamic the Chinese have to grapple with.
Why do Europeans and non-US ANZAC nations have to go bat for Palestinian’s out of the goodness of their hearts, but if it’s someone else suddenly it’s some case of nuance and practicality?
I’d personally be in favour of a Russian level of ostracisation, but there’s pretty obvious reasons as to why that’s occurred in one case. Russia is literally in Europe, and is being actively antagonistic. Israel yes, behaving reprehensibly and should be being opposed, they’re not a threat to European security.
Did you read the link? Basically, Israel has been double dealing for decades and the US finally made them choose and they chose the US/West.
I feel like these (whataboutism) questions are more out of frustration than good faith. Not sure how you're measuring or what you're expecting when you say "done much less". China isn't the international interventionalists that the US/West has been for the last ~100 years, so of course they are going to have a different role.
As for me personally, surely you understand how it makes more sense for me to discuss my thoughts about the US's and Europe's role with people in the US/Europe that ostensibly could influence their peers/governments vs pissing into the wind about China to distract from that instead?
I wouldn’t consider that especially whataboutery. I’m not saying ‘what about x other thing?’ I’m asking why you seem to apply different analytical frameworks to different scenarios.
It leads to a perception of inconsistency, which then rears its head any time you raise certain things. Even things I agree with. And seems to be something you don’t especially address, but simultaneously wonder why people aren’t receptive to your missives. Or, alternatively a consistent worldview that is based with ‘US bad’ as the central pillar.
I did read the link, it’s all very transactional politics.
I didn’t jump to mentioning China for any other reason other than as a singular state it’s amongst the world’s most powerful, and it’s not exactly best buddies with the USA.
It has those two characteristics that many individual European nations lack. The clout to push things as a singular state, and without certain entanglements with the US.
WASHINGTON (AP) — The United States is drawing down the presence of staffers who are not deemed essential to operations in the Middle East and their loved ones due to the potential for regional unrest, the State Department and military said Wednesday.
The State Department said it has ordered the departure of all nonessential personnel from the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad based on its latest review and a commitment “to keeping Americans safe, both at home and abroad.” The embassy already had been on limited staffing, and the order will not affect a large number of personnel.
The department, however, also is authorizing the departure of nonessential personnel and family members from Bahrain and Kuwait. That gives them the option of leaving those countries at government expense and with government assistance.
Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth “has authorized the voluntary departure of military dependents from locations” across the region, U.S. Central Command said in a statement. The command “is monitoring the developing tension in the Middle East.”
Maybe this is all smoke and mirrors to strong arm Iran for a deal. But it also might not be. The economic and political damage from an "actual" bombing campaign on Iran would be enormous. That is why we've never seen a president willing to throw away their political prospects on it. Trump likely not needing to worry about 2028 as things are going might make him the idiot dumb enough to pull the lever.
EPT
