EPTThings Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine - Page 420
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9716 Posts
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pmp10
3354 Posts
Iranian response will likely be a much better indication of where things are heading. | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6248 Posts
On June 13 2025 04:08 Gorsameth wrote: Iran wants a nuke because its the only defence against the US and Afghanistan and Iraq showed why that is relevant. If Bush hadn't invaded the middle east Iran wouldn't need a nuke. Iran's nuclear program a long time before the Iraq/Afghanistan wars. Other autocracies in the middle east manage to prevent an invasion from the US without the nukes. Iran doesn't need a nuke as a defense. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15723 Posts
On June 13 2025 13:46 pmp10 wrote: Too soon to tell if this is a start of an air war or just Israel playing bad cop in negotiations. Iranian response will likely be a much better indication of where things are heading. The number of high level officials confirmed killed so far is an existential threat to Iran. They don’t have much to lose at this point. I’d say their only 2 options are surrender or go big. | ||
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hitthat
Poland2267 Posts
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CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2649 Posts
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Sent.
Poland9245 Posts
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Zambrah
United States7384 Posts
On June 13 2025 14:40 Sent. wrote: I'm not sure if anyone outside of Israel and the US is going to consider this a "preemptive strike" or "active self-defence". Lucky for them there are enough dicksuckers in the US to probably continue letting them do whatever they want to whoever, lol. | ||
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pmp10
3354 Posts
On June 13 2025 14:00 Mohdoo wrote: The number of high level officials confirmed killed so far is an existential threat to Iran. They don’t have much to lose at this point. I’d say their only 2 options are surrender or go big. They also need for US to not join in on the strikes. Until that happens full scale war is not guaranteed. | ||
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Sent.
Poland9245 Posts
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Jankisa
Croatia896 Posts
You are sounding 1:1 like Nethyanahu's spokesman, everything Israel does is justified, security of the region is completely irrelevant if Israel can come up with any sort of "we are doing this to defend ourselves" excuse. The last exchange was more then half a year ago, it started with Israel assassinating Iranian generals in Syria, there was an exchange of missile fire and that was it. Now you are defending another insane escalation, I guess you are just such a Nethyanahu fan that you would rather have him, despite warnings from everyone not to do it attack whoever he wants so he can use it as an excuse to continue his wars. This was not provoked, there are (well, were) negotiations for a new Iran nuclear deal, this was done unilaterally by Israel with 0 real reasons other then keeping the wartime footing going and you are here already providing excuses for it, pretty insane. | ||
KwarK
United States43211 Posts
My comment was in response to the suggestion that this is just more of the same offensive Israeli attacks on defenseless civilians. It is not. A state of undeclared but hot war has existed between Israel and Iran for some time now. They are both organized, armed, recognized peer states. This is nothing like Gaza. Throwing missiles at each other is entirely in line with their existing hostilities. They're at war with each other, this is fully within the reasonable bounds of that. And for once Israel is dropping bombs on people in uniform and actual Iranians are getting hit rather than their Palestinian proxies. Not good, but better than the alternative. Not sure where you're getting the "restarting hostilities with Iran", Iranian missiles have been launched at Israel by the Houthis on a daily basis for months. Without getting into the who did what first Iran Israel history we ought still be able to agree that today was very much not the start of it. Edit: this shit is a big part of why Israel rightly complains that it is held to an impossible standard and simply cannot win with many of its critics. Whether or not you think it is prudent or strategically sound this one is absolutely defensible. This is the one where there is an identifiable state actor as the enemy, direct conventional military attacks have been launched by that state actor against Israel, they are at war. If you think this one isn’t allowed then there’s something fundamentally broken with your expectations for Israel. In my view it’s unsound, but it’s definitely allowed. My preference is a negotiated peace but in the absence of a peace it is the undeniable prerogative of two sovereign warring nations to fight. Almost by definition. | ||
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Legan
Finland490 Posts
Only thing I see as possible out is if Trump gets personally pissed off by Israel and Netanyahu. Israel has not given him a multi-million-dollar plane yet, and his plots in Gaza are still theoretical. However, if democrats were willing to cover for Israel, so will the republicans too. One thing I do not get about the fear of Iran having nukes is how Pakistan or North Korea's nukes have not ended up in the hands of terrorists, but Iran is feared to give them to others. If nukes are used, the country that loses control of its nukes will be blamed anyway. There is very little to gain by a singular nuclear strike. Especially when used for terrorism. Iran would not give nukes away unless their government and state collapse, and a group seeking to avenge this steals a nuke. The collapse should not be a goal for anyone anyway. | ||
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Elroi
Sweden5599 Posts
It also remains to be seen what kind of response Iran can muster. Israel has probably taken out a lot of their capabilities - we'll see in a few hours I guess. They completely stifled Hisbollah in Lebanon with their initial attack (especially the pagers), but Iran is obviously a different story. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9716 Posts
On June 13 2025 17:33 Elroi wrote: Does this piss of Trump, though? He said that Iran had 60 days to find a new nuclear deal and that time is up now. They also withdrew the ambassy personel in advance. That doesn't mean that this was made in collaboration with the US though. It also remains to be seen what kind of response Iran can muster. Israel has probably taken out a lot of their capabilities - we'll see in a few hours I guess. They completely stifled Hisbollah in Lebanon with their initial attack (especially the pagers), but Iran is obviously a different story. Yeah it will piss Trump right off tbh. He was supposed to be the guy who would end all the wars on day 1. The entire world has sank even further into the shit since he turned up. | ||
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Elroi
Sweden5599 Posts
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Sent.
Poland9245 Posts
On June 13 2025 17:33 Elroi wrote: Does this piss of Trump, though? He said that Iran had 60 days to find a new nuclear deal and that time is up now. They also withdrew the ambassy personel in advance. That doesn't mean that this was made in collaboration with the US though. It also remains to be seen what kind of response Iran can muster. Israel has probably taken out a lot of their capabilities - we'll see in a few hours I guess. They completely stifled Hisbollah in Lebanon with their initial attack (especially the pagers), but Iran is obviously a different story. My impression is that lower ranked officials and maybe even Rubio are pissed off but Trump and his inner circle are more than okay with it. | ||
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Silvanel
Poland4733 Posts
What if this becomes daily thing... | ||
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pmp10
3354 Posts
On June 13 2025 17:50 Elroi wrote: But he also said that they could choose between striking a deal and being bombed and that they had 60 days. Now, he doesn't always mean what he says (to put it mildly) but this outcome seems consistent with his messaging. We'll have a response soon enough if the American navy starts shooting down Iranian drones. That's practically a given. US might not 'approve' of the strikes but will actively defend Israel from direct retaliation. Far more interesting is if they will start mid-air refueling for Israeli planes soon. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21951 Posts
No matter how justified an attack might be. | ||
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