Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine - Page 292
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Broetchenholer
Germany1944 Posts
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Magic Powers
Austria4179 Posts
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-military-announces-tactical-pauses-gaza-aid-supplies-2024-06-16/ | ||
stilt
France2749 Posts
On June 16 2024 06:21 Elroi wrote: Hamas literally paraded dying civilians in the streets and bragged about killing Jews in videos as a propaganda stunt (before they took them down to better play the victim card). I would bet they did that because it strengthens their support, not the opposite. There were killed and taken as Israeli, not jew. Just like french civilian killed in algeria weren't kill for anti white racism or whatever bullshit but as citizen of a colonial power. That said, judging by your posts, you obvioulsy support israel as there is no political correctness: in this country - it is a state where you can shot 2 yo arab without any repercussion and way before the 07/10, a dream for many - it's a state when pupils and students yell "burn your house" in class - where hearing "death to the arabs" on massive demonstration is perfectly fine, you basically have 700k colons who are preaching it - where questionning if arab have a animal soul or not is fine as well - where since years, the "center left" scholars asks the question of a ethnic cleasing of the arab israeli, what a nice democracy - where rabbi asks to prevent the arab to access to propriety like in safaad - when according to poll 4% of the jewish population actually thinks it has gone too far. - A state born by ethnic cleasing and ghettoisation of the rest of the arab population It's pretty obvious Israel is becoming a model for the european right to deal with the brown people. Funnily enough, the far right in france is super zionist but now is beginning to praise petain, the head of colloborationist france just like orban who adopts the same position while praising horthy. At least, supremacists recognize their own kind. | ||
BlackJack
United States10568 Posts
On June 18 2024 04:57 stilt wrote: There were killed and taken as Israeli, not jew. Just like french civilian killed in algeria weren't kill for anti white racism or whatever bullshit. That said, judging by your posts, you obvioulsy support israel as there is no political correctness: in this country - it is a state where you can shot 2 yo arab without any repercussion and way before the 07/10, a dream for many - it's a state when pupils and students yell "burn your house" in class - where hearing "death to the arabs" on massive demonstration is perfectly fine, you basically have 700k colons who are preaching it - where questionning if arab have a animal soul or not is fine as well - where since years, the "center left" scholars asks the question of a ethnic cleasing of the arab israeli, what a nice democracy - where rabbi asks to prevent the arab to access to propriety like in safaad - when according to poll 4% of the jewish population actually thinks it has gone too far. - A state born by ethnic cleasing and ghettoisation of the rest of the arab population It's pretty obvious Israel is becoming a model for the european right to deal with the brown people. Funnily enough, the far right in france is super zionist but now is beginning to praise petain, the head of colloborationist france just like orban who adopts the same position while praising horthy. At least, supremacist recognizes their own kind. Are you seriously trying to argue that Hamas is not anti-Jew racist? Let me guess, calling for the destruction of Israel and annihilation of Jews doesn't cross your threshold but calling for anything short of an open border makes you a fascist racist xenophobe. | ||
stilt
France2749 Posts
On June 18 2024 05:22 BlackJack wrote: Are you seriously trying to argue that Hamas is not anti-Jew racist? Let me guess, calling for the destruction of Israel and annihilation of Jews doesn't cross your threshold but calling for anything short of an open border makes you a fascist racist xenophobe. As if you're calling for anything short of open border. You're litteraly supporting a racist society which is commiting a slaughter. People who rant about muslim immogration while supporting a society which mass murder arab muslim are racists, my apologies if you hate muslim arabs, not my fault. But go on Israel, not only you can scream death to arab as much as much as you want but you can murder them as well ! And to answer you, every single palestinian struggles have been called antisemite by people with your agenda regardless of their ideologies (marxist, nationalist, islamist whatever) | ||
BlackJack
United States10568 Posts
On June 18 2024 05:25 stilt wrote: As if you're calling for anything short of open border. You're litteraly supporting a racist society which is commiting a slaughter. People who rant about muslim immogration while supporting a society which mass murder arab muslim are racists, my apologies if you hate muslim arabs, not my fault. But go on Israel, not only you can scream death to arab as much as much as you want but you can murder them as well ! And to answer you, every single palestinian struggles have been called antisemite by people with your agenda regardless of their ideologies (marxist, nationalist, islamist whatever) My posts on this forum, on the whole, would probably be described as staunchly anti-Israel. I'm probably somewhat biased as my paternal grandfather was from Syria. But simply questioning your ridiculous claim that Hamas is not anti-Jew and your gut reaction is to call me an anti-arab racist. Have you considered that maybe I don't hate arabs and I just hate shitty arguments? Maybe we are on the same side of this discussion and I'm just keen enough to know that calling everyone that disagrees with your bad arguments a racist is a disservice to our side? | ||
stilt
France2749 Posts
On June 18 2024 05:58 BlackJack wrote: My posts on this forum, on the whole, would probably be described as staunchly anti-Israel. I'm probably somewhat biased as my paternal grandfather was from Syria. But simply questioning your ridiculous claim that Hamas is not anti-Jew and your gut reaction is to call me an anti-arab racist. Have you considered that maybe I don't hate arabs and I just hate shitty arguments? Maybe we are on the same side of this discussion and I'm just keen enough to know that calling everyone that disagrees with your bad arguments a racist is a disservice to our side? Saying 07/10 and the palestinian struggle before is antisemit is indeed having an agenda as it is legitimizing their cause as if the racine of the conflict were ideological. It is not, occupation, murder, torture occur on the west bank while gaza is choked. You having syrian origin doesn't change it at all, I don't even get why you're bringing that up, especially considering how diverse the country is. Regardless my comparaison with the algerian conflict is valid, like it or not. And calling people who are supporting a racist society with genocidal intent racist is a disservice ? What the fuck are you saying ? Since when naming thing for what they are is a disservice ? Just like your euphemism on elroy ideology is pathetic On the contrary, this thread is all about conjoncture on palestinian society and very few about the israeli one. | ||
Mohdoo
United States15690 Posts
On June 18 2024 06:07 stilt wrote: Saying 07/10 and the palestinian struggle before is antisemit is indeed having an agenda as it is legitimizing their cause as if the racine of the conflict were ideological. It is not, occupation, murder, torture occur on the west bank while gaza is choked. You having syrian origin doesn't change it at all, I don't even get why you're bringing that up, especially considering how diverse the country is. Regardless my comparaison with the algerian conflict is valid, like it or not. And calling people who are supporting a racist society with genocidal intent racist is a disservice ? What the fuck are you saying ? Since when naming thing for what they are is a disservice ? Just like your euphemism on elroy ideology is pathetic On the contrary, this thread is all about conjoncture on palestinian society and very few about the israeli one. I am sure you are aware Mahmoud al-Zahar is a co-founder of Hamas and continues to be a high ranking member of their leadership. This is from 2022. Even if you don't trust the person who wrote this tweet, the transcript of this video is widely available. It is unreasonable to try to say Hamas is not antisemitic. I want to be clear this does not mean the IDF is free of sin and ethical. Palestinians being extreme victims does not mean the leading force against Israel is an ethical organization. I think it is a common mistake that people make, that so long as some group is deeply victimized, their leading faction fighting against their aggressor must be ethical or justified. | ||
pmp10
3331 Posts
A predictable consequence of Gaza situation dragging on forever: That might be the only notable setback US and Israel will suffer as a consequence of their strategy. | ||
stilt
France2749 Posts
On June 18 2024 09:00 Mohdoo wrote: I am sure you are aware Mahmoud al-Zahar is a co-founder of Hamas and continues to be a high ranking member of their leadership. This is from 2022. https://twitter.com/AmyMek/status/1711988348544491909 Even if you don't trust the person who wrote this tweet, the transcript of this video is widely available. It is unreasonable to try to say Hamas is not antisemitic. I want to be clear this does not mean the IDF is free of sin and ethical. Palestinians being extreme victims does not mean the leading force against Israel is an ethical organization. I think it is a common mistake that people make, that so long as some group is deeply victimized, their leading faction fighting against their aggressor must be ethical or justified. And I stand by my point, their ideology is driven by circumstances and conditions, you want to remove the palestinian antisemitism ? Well education won't work if the condition remain. Pretending the contrary is basically a justification of all the crime against humanity perpatred by israel I got a friend whose uncle has been crippled since 1982 as he was tortured by the israeli during their invasion of lebanon, she lost two young cousins at sabra and shatila as they were of palestinian origin. She didn't like the jews when I met here and detaching from her mind what Israël is doing from what the jewish people are or could be was a hassle. Reading primo levy, Grothendieck and meeting jews which refuse to be associate with it were necessary steps. That said, it was easier for her as she is in france and do not continuously suffer from it. Anyway would you say her dislike of jew was idelogical or motivated by her past ? Especially when Israel and the western one discourse is linking israeli's policies to all the jewish people ? (Which no matter how support from the jewish community they can enjoy is antisemit in my book but whatever) The argument of antisemtism is not better than calling soviet union and soviet citizen (cuz the first post is not about hamas but about palestinian cheering) germanophobe after the german murdered 25 millions of them. This is a just a travesty which masks the acts of a society which is radicalizing toward extreme racism. If I support hamas raping and beheading babies ? No I do not, barbary only generate more barbary that said, lately, the sole burn and beheaded baby I saw was palestinian and no one in the west batted an eye. | ||
BlackJack
United States10568 Posts
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stilt
France2749 Posts
On June 19 2024 03:16 BlackJack wrote: See how quickly you've pivoted from "there is no Palestinian antisemitism" to "Palestinian antisemitism is the result of the conditions they live in"? These are blatantly contradictory statements. You've just admitted that you were wrong but you still want to feel good about calling people anti-arab racists for disagreeing with your wrong statements. Supporting a racist state which commits mass murdering is racist just like supporting nazi germany is. The fact you have trou le to realyze it means either you are racist or dumb. Or supporting south african apartheid as I guess you will change the goalpost with the point godwin. As I have stated above, israeli are killed as a colon, not jew. Again you refuse any parallels with previous conflicts because you are unable to think or have an agenda | ||
BlackJack
United States10568 Posts
On June 19 2024 03:45 stilt wrote: Supporting a racist state which commits mass murdering is racist just like supporting nazi germany is. The fact you have trou le to realyze it means either you are racist or dumb. Or supporting south african apartheid as I guess you will change the goalpost with the point godwin. As I have stated above, israeli are killed as a colon, not jew. Again you refuse any parallels with previous conflicts because you are unable to think or have an agenda Oh yeah well if you support the Palestinian cause then you support Hamas and the mass murder of jews on 7/10! You must be an anti-Semite if you don't realize this! Oh wow, it's awfully easy to post this drivel. Perhaps we can do better. | ||
Uldridge
Belgium4800 Posts
On June 19 2024 03:16 BlackJack wrote: See how quickly you've pivoted from "there is no Palestinian antisemitism" to "Palestinian antisemitism is the result of the conditions they live in"? These are blatantly contradictory statements. You've just admitted that you were wrong but you still want to feel good about calling people anti-arab racists for disagreeing with your wrong statements. I don't really see these as contradictory because you simply can't have inherent Palestinian antisemitism. Claiming an inherent property to an entire demography is kind of self defeating. However, just like there was no German antisemitism, the German antisemitism arose through well constructed propaganda, and this is also how Hamas is able to (next to the Israelites not being the most friendly neighbors), make antisemitism arise in Palestinians. Lay bare where it hurts and point to a common enemy. It's a contemporary framework, not baked into their genetic blueprint. | ||
BlackJack
United States10568 Posts
On June 19 2024 15:52 Uldridge wrote: I don't really see these as contradictory because you simply can't have inherent Palestinian antisemitism. Claiming an inherent property to an entire demography is kind of self defeating. However, just like there was no German antisemitism, the German antisemitism arose through well constructed propaganda, and this is also how Hamas is able to (next to the Israelites not being the most friendly neighbors), make antisemitism arise in Palestinians. Lay bare where it hurts and point to a common enemy. It's a contemporary framework, not baked into their genetic blueprint. Nobody said anti semitism was an inherent property of the Palestinian people. That's something you've made up. | ||
Uldridge
Belgium4800 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25497 Posts
There seems something embedded outside the confines of your oppressor/oppressed nationalist conflict here. I can only speak to the British/Irish situation but actual anti-British sentiment isn’t particularly strong beyond the ‘we’d rather not like them ruling our country’ variety. Whereas I’m not sure that’s something you can really say about attitudes in Palestine right now, or indeed beyond. | ||
BlackJack
United States10568 Posts
On June 19 2024 16:28 Uldridge wrote: Then what do you mean with "Palestinian antisemitism"? And what's the difference with "Palestinian antisemitism is the result of the conditions they live in" and how do you conclude those are contradictory? I'm not sure what you're stuck on. You can't argue that antisemitism only exists among Palestinians because of the conditions Israel has put them in and also argue that antisemitism doesn't exist among Palestinians at all. These two statements are contradictory. It can't both exist and not exist. The reason it exists is irrelevant. None of that and nothing that was said has anything to do with claiming that Palestinians are inherently antisemitic by nature. The term "Palestinian antisemitism" doesn't even imply that. "Palestinian antisemitism" is simply how stilt decided to phrase it. It's not how I would have worded it as a native English speaker, but I saw no issue with repeating that phrasing. I don't see the loaded meaning that you seemed to have applied to it. | ||
Elroi
Sweden5595 Posts
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Uldridge
Belgium4800 Posts
On June 19 2024 17:06 BlackJack wrote: I'm not sure what you're stuck on. You can't argue that antisemitism only exists among Palestinians because of the conditions Israel has put them in and also argue that antisemitism doesn't exist among Palestinians at all. These two statements are contradictory. It can't both exist and not exist. The reason it exists is irrelevant. None of that and nothing that was said has anything to do with claiming that Palestinians are inherently antisemitic by nature. The term "Palestinian antisemitism" doesn't even imply that. "Palestinian antisemitism" is simply how stilt decided to phrase it. It's not how I would have worded it as a native English speaker, but I saw no issue with repeating that phrasing. I don't see the loaded meaning that you seemed to have applied to it. Sure, but you did to Stilt as I've done to you. You've put words in his mouth. I don't think Stilt argues that there is no Palestinian antisemitism. I think he implies that alot of the current Palestianian strife is with Israelites instead of a propagandized hatred for Jews instilled by Hamas. If you're not sure, you need to ask for clarification instead of arguing based on your own assumptions of how someone worded things as a non-native English speaker. Seems like people can come to different conclusions/assumptions when reading the same thing. Maybe he could've clarified in a future post, but I felt like your wording seemed unnecessarily dismissive. | ||
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