|
NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. |
On March 07 2024 06:43 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2024 04:56 Ciaus237 wrote:BBC: Israel approves plans for 3,400 new homes in West Bank settlementsDon't really have much to say on this one. It's such blatant settler colonialism, and meanwhile Israel gets little more than a finger-wag from the rest of the world. I think that if my country was in a slightly more politically useful location that apartheid would be ongoing and we'd be getting a blank cheque from the US to sustain it.
Israel's Haaretz newspaper said the Higher Planning Committee of the Civil Administration - the body that implements Israeli government policy in the West Bank - had advanced plans for the development of 3,476 settler homes on Wednesday - with 2,452 in Maale Adumim, 694 in Efrat and 330 in Kedar.
Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich, a far-right politician who oversees the Civil Administration, said following the meeting that a total of 18,515 homes in West Bank settlements had now been approved over the past year.
"The enemies try to harm and weaken us but we will continue to build and be built up in this land," he wrote on X, formerly Twitter.
It’s the craic like this that is largely indefensible and drives a lot of ire against Israel from folks like yours truly. The issue of security and having a population next door that wishes to do your populace harm, and how to deal with that is a lot less cut and dry and intractable, so I try to demarcate between the two although there is crossover naturally. So long as Israel engages in overt colonialism well, folks will consider them as engaging in overt colonialism.
It's not like there are oil and natural gas resources in the occupied Palestinian territory that could generate hundreds of billions of dollars or that such a reality might influence Netanyahu's insistence on there not being a Palestinian state that can claim it (with or without Hamas).
|
Settler colonialism occurs when colonizers invade and occupy territory to permanently replace the existing society with the society of the colonizers.[1][2][3]
Settler colonialism is a form of exogenous domination typically organized or supported by an imperial authority, which maintains a connection or control to the territory through the settler's colonialism.[4] Settler colonialism contrasts with exploitation colonialism, which entails an economic policy of conquering territory to exploit its population as cheap or free labor and its natural resources as raw material. In this way, settler colonialism lasts indefinitely, except in the rare event of complete evacuation or settler decolonization.[5]
|
|
|
On March 07 2024 08:44 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2024 07:54 Nebuchad wrote:
Settler colonialism occurs when colonizers invade and occupy territory to permanently replace the existing society with the society of the colonizers.[1][2][3]
Settler colonialism is a form of exogenous domination typically organized or supported by an imperial authority, which maintains a connection or control to the territory through the settler's colonialism.[4] Settler colonialism contrasts with exploitation colonialism, which entails an economic policy of conquering territory to exploit its population as cheap or free labor and its natural resources as raw material. In this way, settler colonialism lasts indefinitely, except in the rare event of complete evacuation or settler decolonization.[5] What is the difference between annexation and settler colonization? It seems like the same difference but just throwing in the word colonization.
I think it's quite similar yes, you're right
|
|
|
Northern Ireland22954 Posts
On March 07 2024 07:18 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2024 06:43 WombaT wrote:On March 07 2024 04:56 Ciaus237 wrote:BBC: Israel approves plans for 3,400 new homes in West Bank settlementsDon't really have much to say on this one. It's such blatant settler colonialism, and meanwhile Israel gets little more than a finger-wag from the rest of the world. I think that if my country was in a slightly more politically useful location that apartheid would be ongoing and we'd be getting a blank cheque from the US to sustain it.
Israel's Haaretz newspaper said the Higher Planning Committee of the Civil Administration - the body that implements Israeli government policy in the West Bank - had advanced plans for the development of 3,476 settler homes on Wednesday - with 2,452 in Maale Adumim, 694 in Efrat and 330 in Kedar.
Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich, a far-right politician who oversees the Civil Administration, said following the meeting that a total of 18,515 homes in West Bank settlements had now been approved over the past year.
"The enemies try to harm and weaken us but we will continue to build and be built up in this land," he wrote on X, formerly Twitter.
It’s the craic like this that is largely indefensible and drives a lot of ire against Israel from folks like yours truly. The issue of security and having a population next door that wishes to do your populace harm, and how to deal with that is a lot less cut and dry and intractable, so I try to demarcate between the two although there is crossover naturally. So long as Israel engages in overt colonialism well, folks will consider them as engaging in overt colonialism. Its probably better to define it as annexation. Colonialism requires they exploit the place for economic reasons, which is not the case.
Were you not objecting to the use of the ethnic cleansing term by virtue of the encroachment of settlements being economically motivated rather than driven by ethnic ideology?
I mean there’s a high chance my recollection of who said what on that particular topic months ago is off so apologies if I’ve misremembered.
|
|
|
Northern Ireland22954 Posts
In what planet are Israel going to move a bunch of their people ever outwards and then relocate them down the line as part of some negotiation?
|
|
|
On March 07 2024 07:18 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2024 06:43 WombaT wrote:On March 07 2024 04:56 Ciaus237 wrote:BBC: Israel approves plans for 3,400 new homes in West Bank settlementsDon't really have much to say on this one. It's such blatant settler colonialism, and meanwhile Israel gets little more than a finger-wag from the rest of the world. I think that if my country was in a slightly more politically useful location that apartheid would be ongoing and we'd be getting a blank cheque from the US to sustain it.
Israel's Haaretz newspaper said the Higher Planning Committee of the Civil Administration - the body that implements Israeli government policy in the West Bank - had advanced plans for the development of 3,476 settler homes on Wednesday - with 2,452 in Maale Adumim, 694 in Efrat and 330 in Kedar.
Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich, a far-right politician who oversees the Civil Administration, said following the meeting that a total of 18,515 homes in West Bank settlements had now been approved over the past year.
"The enemies try to harm and weaken us but we will continue to build and be built up in this land," he wrote on X, formerly Twitter.
It’s the craic like this that is largely indefensible and drives a lot of ire against Israel from folks like yours truly. The issue of security and having a population next door that wishes to do your populace harm, and how to deal with that is a lot less cut and dry and intractable, so I try to demarcate between the two although there is crossover naturally. So long as Israel engages in overt colonialism well, folks will consider them as engaging in overt colonialism. Its probably better to define it as annexation. Colonialism requires they exploit the place for economic reasons, which is not the case.
It’s lebensraum right? Straight out of the Nazi playbook
|
On March 07 2024 01:29 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2024 01:21 Magic Powers wrote:
If I were a therapist for Israelis and Palestinians, and I'd ask the Israelis to show me on the doll where they've been oppressed by Palestinians, I'm sure they could point to various spots, but I'd have a very hard time confirming if any of these spots actually exist.
If I asked the same question to Palestinians where they've been oppressed by Israelis, they could point to various different spots and I'd be instantly able to confirm that these spots do in fact exist.
The back and forth violence is not the underlying cause of the conflict. It's a symptom. The violence confirms that a conflict is indeed happening, but it tells us nothing about why it's been happening and why neither side stops.
When you look at the potential causes, on the pro-Palestinian side the argument is that Israeli oppression causes the violence.
On the pro-Israel side the argument is that extremists such as Hamas are being funded by countries such as Iran and Qatar and Palestinian are being recruited into Hamas through propaganda.
Two major points are being omitted. The pro-Palestinian side omits that Hamas has continuously conducted airstrikes over the years, while the pro-Israel side omits that Israel's oppression of Palestinians fuels the propaganda that leads to recruitment into Hamas.
However, there's a third major point that's being omitted, which is that the IDF is easily ten times more powerful than Hamas and all surrounding nations combined. They can even use nuclear weapons if necessary. There's no scenario in which Israel can lose a war against the combined force of all of the hostile countries and terrorist groups surrounding them.
With great power comes great responsibility. Israel isn't taking responsibility despite having all the power, and that is the problem. In that region they are effectively in a position of a demigod, and they refuse to accept the responsibility that should come with such power. Wait you think the IDF is 10x stronger than all the other nations around it? You are severely under rating Iran as well as others. Lots of other questionable things but that one is just flat out wrong. Edit: you look up any list this one has Egypt at 11, Israel as 14, SA at 15, Iran at 19, UAE at 24 It is very likely that they do not have the strongest military of all the countries that surround them, let alone 10x stronger than all combined!
I agree with your general point that Israel is not singlehandedly stronger than everyone else in the region. Especially with the arms race that has been going on in the Middle East for the past couple decades.
I just wanted to point out tangentially that those websites that rank militaries usually are just counting up hardware. So SA has a lot of cool helicopters and stuff, Egypt has 2 carriers, etc. The problem is, most armies in the Middle East are full of corruption, nepotism, and incompetence. That's hard to measure on a chart, but it's factored into many of the military engagements with Israel to help Israel come out on top even in many situations where they were really outgunned. That of course doesn't mean that they'll always be able to out play their opponents. Nor should they constantly be on the edge of their seat wondering when they'll have to.
Edit: To the people who keep mentioning nukes: those are hard to factor in to any military calculation. Actually using a nuke today is less a military maneuver and more flipping the whole board. You can't actually protect yourself with nukes, you mostly just wipe out a couple cities. It's hard to predict all the things that would happen after that point, but they likely wouldn't be good for the people who used the nukes. (Note Russia having tons of nukes, bleeding pretty hard in their current war, yet still not dropping a single nuke.)
Their main value is deterance (if you have them, no one would risk attacking you lest you use them.) Unfortunately, that value diminishes when the people who want you dead have an ideology of martyrdom.
|
On March 07 2024 13:32 Cerebrate1 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2024 01:29 JimmiC wrote:On March 07 2024 01:21 Magic Powers wrote:
If I were a therapist for Israelis and Palestinians, and I'd ask the Israelis to show me on the doll where they've been oppressed by Palestinians, I'm sure they could point to various spots, but I'd have a very hard time confirming if any of these spots actually exist.
If I asked the same question to Palestinians where they've been oppressed by Israelis, they could point to various different spots and I'd be instantly able to confirm that these spots do in fact exist.
The back and forth violence is not the underlying cause of the conflict. It's a symptom. The violence confirms that a conflict is indeed happening, but it tells us nothing about why it's been happening and why neither side stops.
When you look at the potential causes, on the pro-Palestinian side the argument is that Israeli oppression causes the violence.
On the pro-Israel side the argument is that extremists such as Hamas are being funded by countries such as Iran and Qatar and Palestinian are being recruited into Hamas through propaganda.
Two major points are being omitted. The pro-Palestinian side omits that Hamas has continuously conducted airstrikes over the years, while the pro-Israel side omits that Israel's oppression of Palestinians fuels the propaganda that leads to recruitment into Hamas.
However, there's a third major point that's being omitted, which is that the IDF is easily ten times more powerful than Hamas and all surrounding nations combined. They can even use nuclear weapons if necessary. There's no scenario in which Israel can lose a war against the combined force of all of the hostile countries and terrorist groups surrounding them.
With great power comes great responsibility. Israel isn't taking responsibility despite having all the power, and that is the problem. In that region they are effectively in a position of a demigod, and they refuse to accept the responsibility that should come with such power. Wait you think the IDF is 10x stronger than all the other nations around it? You are severely under rating Iran as well as others. Lots of other questionable things but that one is just flat out wrong. Edit: you look up any list this one has Egypt at 11, Israel as 14, SA at 15, Iran at 19, UAE at 24 It is very likely that they do not have the strongest military of all the countries that surround them, let alone 10x stronger than all combined! I agree with your general point that Israel is not singlehandedly stronger than everyone else in the region. Especially with the arms race that has been going on in the Middle East for the past couple decades. I just wanted to point out tangentially that those websites that rank militaries usually are just counting up hardware. So SA has a lot of cool helicopters and stuff, Egypt has 2 carriers, etc. The problem is, most armies in the Middle East are full of corruption, nepotism, and incompetence. That's hard to measure on a chart, but it's factored into many of the military engagements with Israel to help Israel come out on top even in many situations where they were really outgunned. That of course doesn't mean that they'll always be able to out play their opponents. Nor should they constantly be on the edge of their seat wondering when they'll have to. Edit: To the people who keep mentioning nukes: those are hard to factor in to any military calculation. Actually using a nuke today is less a military maneuver and more flipping the whole board. You can't actually protect yourself with nukes, you mostly just wipe out a couple cities. It's hard to predict all the things that would happen after that point, but they likely wouldn't be good for the people who used the nukes. (Note Russia having tons of nukes, bleeding pretty hard in their current war, yet still not dropping a single nuke.) Their main value is deterance (if you have them, no one would risk attacking you lest you use them.) Unfortunately, that value diminishes when the people who want you dead have an ideology of martyrdom.
None of the surrounding countries have a government that follows an ideology of martyrdom. I agree that nuking Gaza or WB would be ineffective and counterproductive on very very many levels.
|
|
|
Northern Ireland22954 Posts
On March 07 2024 13:32 Cerebrate1 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2024 01:29 JimmiC wrote:On March 07 2024 01:21 Magic Powers wrote:
If I were a therapist for Israelis and Palestinians, and I'd ask the Israelis to show me on the doll where they've been oppressed by Palestinians, I'm sure they could point to various spots, but I'd have a very hard time confirming if any of these spots actually exist.
If I asked the same question to Palestinians where they've been oppressed by Israelis, they could point to various different spots and I'd be instantly able to confirm that these spots do in fact exist.
The back and forth violence is not the underlying cause of the conflict. It's a symptom. The violence confirms that a conflict is indeed happening, but it tells us nothing about why it's been happening and why neither side stops.
When you look at the potential causes, on the pro-Palestinian side the argument is that Israeli oppression causes the violence.
On the pro-Israel side the argument is that extremists such as Hamas are being funded by countries such as Iran and Qatar and Palestinian are being recruited into Hamas through propaganda.
Two major points are being omitted. The pro-Palestinian side omits that Hamas has continuously conducted airstrikes over the years, while the pro-Israel side omits that Israel's oppression of Palestinians fuels the propaganda that leads to recruitment into Hamas.
However, there's a third major point that's being omitted, which is that the IDF is easily ten times more powerful than Hamas and all surrounding nations combined. They can even use nuclear weapons if necessary. There's no scenario in which Israel can lose a war against the combined force of all of the hostile countries and terrorist groups surrounding them.
With great power comes great responsibility. Israel isn't taking responsibility despite having all the power, and that is the problem. In that region they are effectively in a position of a demigod, and they refuse to accept the responsibility that should come with such power. Wait you think the IDF is 10x stronger than all the other nations around it? You are severely under rating Iran as well as others. Lots of other questionable things but that one is just flat out wrong. Edit: you look up any list this one has Egypt at 11, Israel as 14, SA at 15, Iran at 19, UAE at 24 It is very likely that they do not have the strongest military of all the countries that surround them, let alone 10x stronger than all combined! I agree with your general point that Israel is not singlehandedly stronger than everyone else in the region. Especially with the arms race that has been going on in the Middle East for the past couple decades. I just wanted to point out tangentially that those websites that rank militaries usually are just counting up hardware. So SA has a lot of cool helicopters and stuff, Egypt has 2 carriers, etc. The problem is, most armies in the Middle East are full of corruption, nepotism, and incompetence. That's hard to measure on a chart, but it's factored into many of the military engagements with Israel to help Israel come out on top even in many situations where they were really outgunned. That of course doesn't mean that they'll always be able to out play their opponents. Nor should they constantly be on the edge of their seat wondering when they'll have to. Edit: To the people who keep mentioning nukes: those are hard to factor in to any military calculation. Actually using a nuke today is less a military maneuver and more flipping the whole board. You can't actually protect yourself with nukes, you mostly just wipe out a couple cities. It's hard to predict all the things that would happen after that point, but they likely wouldn't be good for the people who used the nukes. (Note Russia having tons of nukes, bleeding pretty hard in their current war, yet still not dropping a single nuke.) Their main value is deterance (if you have them, no one would risk attacking you lest you use them.) Unfortunately, that value diminishes when the people who want you dead have an ideology of martyrdom.
Indeed we just saw it pretty vividly illustrated in Ukraine recently that the same kind of factors you mentioned clearly greatly reduced Russia’s military capabilities from how they looked on paper going in.
I’m unsure if such similar traits exist in all of the militaries of Israel’s hostile neighbours, but I would be rather confident that by virtue of being in an almost perpetual state of defensive alertness and threat that Israel’s military would have its shit together if the proverbial hit the fan.
|
Northern Ireland22954 Posts
On March 07 2024 11:37 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2024 10:08 WombaT wrote:
In what planet are Israel going to move a bunch of their people ever outwards and then relocate them down the line as part of some negotiation? That’s what they have done at least twice before 2005 in Gaza was the last I believe.
So almost 20 years ago? The prospects of any wholesale reversal of settlements seem to me rather remote.
Even if wider sentiment flips and Israeli politics ushers in some age of a much more sympathetic approach to Palestine, reversing that process will still likely be something of a Rubicon not to be crossed.
You won’t be asking folks who’ve relocated last month to be compensated and move back, you’ll be asking for decades-long communities to wholesale up sticks. And I just don’t see a world where that’s ever going to be remotely palatable or anything else than tantamount to political suicide to try and force through as a policy.
Indeed, outside of various forms of forcible expulsion I can’t think of a single example of an established population ever relocating in such a fashion. Perhaps they do exist, and I’ve certainly learned a lot from other posters over the years so I may yet do so again.
|
On March 07 2024 15:33 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2024 12:52 gobbledydook wrote:On March 07 2024 07:18 JimmiC wrote:On March 07 2024 06:43 WombaT wrote:On March 07 2024 04:56 Ciaus237 wrote:BBC: Israel approves plans for 3,400 new homes in West Bank settlementsDon't really have much to say on this one. It's such blatant settler colonialism, and meanwhile Israel gets little more than a finger-wag from the rest of the world. I think that if my country was in a slightly more politically useful location that apartheid would be ongoing and we'd be getting a blank cheque from the US to sustain it.
Israel's Haaretz newspaper said the Higher Planning Committee of the Civil Administration - the body that implements Israeli government policy in the West Bank - had advanced plans for the development of 3,476 settler homes on Wednesday - with 2,452 in Maale Adumim, 694 in Efrat and 330 in Kedar.
Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich, a far-right politician who oversees the Civil Administration, said following the meeting that a total of 18,515 homes in West Bank settlements had now been approved over the past year.
"The enemies try to harm and weaken us but we will continue to build and be built up in this land," he wrote on X, formerly Twitter.
It’s the craic like this that is largely indefensible and drives a lot of ire against Israel from folks like yours truly. The issue of security and having a population next door that wishes to do your populace harm, and how to deal with that is a lot less cut and dry and intractable, so I try to demarcate between the two although there is crossover naturally. So long as Israel engages in overt colonialism well, folks will consider them as engaging in overt colonialism. Its probably better to define it as annexation. Colonialism requires they exploit the place for economic reasons, which is not the case. It’s lebensraum right? Straight out of the Nazi playbook Of course not. Were you aware that many consider what you just did there antisemitism, it is a debated topic in academia. https://www.worldjewishcongress.org/en/news/antisemitism-defined-why-drawing-comparisons-of-contemporary-israeli-policy-to-the-nazis-is-antisemitichttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparisons_between_Israel_and_Nazi_Germany
Isn't that convenient.
Comparing Israeli policy to Nazi policy is antisemitic, even if there are obvious parallels between the two. A nice and easy way to make sure you never have to take responsibility for the fucked up shit you do.
|
On March 07 2024 16:57 Mikau wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2024 15:33 JimmiC wrote:On March 07 2024 12:52 gobbledydook wrote:On March 07 2024 07:18 JimmiC wrote:On March 07 2024 06:43 WombaT wrote:On March 07 2024 04:56 Ciaus237 wrote:BBC: Israel approves plans for 3,400 new homes in West Bank settlementsDon't really have much to say on this one. It's such blatant settler colonialism, and meanwhile Israel gets little more than a finger-wag from the rest of the world. I think that if my country was in a slightly more politically useful location that apartheid would be ongoing and we'd be getting a blank cheque from the US to sustain it.
Israel's Haaretz newspaper said the Higher Planning Committee of the Civil Administration - the body that implements Israeli government policy in the West Bank - had advanced plans for the development of 3,476 settler homes on Wednesday - with 2,452 in Maale Adumim, 694 in Efrat and 330 in Kedar.
Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich, a far-right politician who oversees the Civil Administration, said following the meeting that a total of 18,515 homes in West Bank settlements had now been approved over the past year.
"The enemies try to harm and weaken us but we will continue to build and be built up in this land," he wrote on X, formerly Twitter.
It’s the craic like this that is largely indefensible and drives a lot of ire against Israel from folks like yours truly. The issue of security and having a population next door that wishes to do your populace harm, and how to deal with that is a lot less cut and dry and intractable, so I try to demarcate between the two although there is crossover naturally. So long as Israel engages in overt colonialism well, folks will consider them as engaging in overt colonialism. Its probably better to define it as annexation. Colonialism requires they exploit the place for economic reasons, which is not the case. It’s lebensraum right? Straight out of the Nazi playbook Of course not. Were you aware that many consider what you just did there antisemitism, it is a debated topic in academia. https://www.worldjewishcongress.org/en/news/antisemitism-defined-why-drawing-comparisons-of-contemporary-israeli-policy-to-the-nazis-is-antisemitichttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparisons_between_Israel_and_Nazi_Germany Isn't that convenient. Comparing Israeli policy to Nazi policy is antisemitic, even if there are obvious parallels between the two. A nice and easy way to make sure you never have to take responsibility for the fucked up shit you do.
"Antisemitism" is always the go-to accusation. People who share my belief have been accused of being extremist, delusional, insane, and many other bad words. It's all deflection, they're empty words.
This is also where the denial comes from that Israel is realistically speaking all powerful in the ME. Israel has to be a victim to keep destroying and killing and stealing - but a country that faces no realistic threats can't be a victim. I've rarely seen a country that is so much a victim that it gets away with killing tens of thousands of people while caught up in a months long offensive war, while at the same time being threatened in its existence by surrounding nations.
There is no logic in this. Reason has gone out the window long ago. That's where the accusations come from. People who can't reason must accuse others of being unreasonable.
|
could we finally agree that the only thing that antisemitism is ... is in fact "hating jews or Israel" OR "hating jews or israel without any reason"
it is totally unreasonable that any (even marginally warranted or obscure critique) of Israel gets labeled as antisemitism. This needs to stop.
I get it is common. But the fact that it happens here on a regular basis (where I assume 90%+ of people have a connection to academia and higher education) is extremely upsetting.
NO for the last time - critique of Israel is not antisemitism ffs.
|
On March 07 2024 16:46 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2024 11:37 JimmiC wrote:On March 07 2024 10:08 WombaT wrote:
In what planet are Israel going to move a bunch of their people ever outwards and then relocate them down the line as part of some negotiation? That’s what they have done at least twice before 2005 in Gaza was the last I believe. So almost 20 years ago? The prospects of any wholesale reversal of settlements seem to me rather remote. Even if wider sentiment flips and Israeli politics ushers in some age of a much more sympathetic approach to Palestine, reversing that process will still likely be something of a Rubicon not to be crossed. You won’t be asking folks who’ve relocated last month to be compensated and move back, you’ll be asking for decades-long communities to wholesale up sticks. And I just don’t see a world where that’s ever going to be remotely palatable or anything else than tantamount to political suicide to try and force through as a policy. Indeed, outside of various forms of forcible expulsion I can’t think of a single example of an established population ever relocating in such a fashion. Perhaps they do exist, and I’ve certainly learned a lot from other posters over the years so I may yet do so again.
In the previous negotiation the idea was for Israel to annex the large settlements and dismantle the small ones. To compensate for the lost territory Israel would give other parts of what is now Israel in return. The abandonment of small settlements has precedent with Gaza and Sinai. Any future deal will probably look similar.
On March 04 2024 06:29 stilt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2024 18:58 RvB wrote:On March 02 2024 12:56 Salazarz wrote:On March 02 2024 05:29 JimmiC wrote:On March 02 2024 05:22 WombaT wrote:On March 02 2024 04:55 JimmiC wrote:On March 02 2024 04:21 Salazarz wrote:On March 02 2024 00:31 JimmiC wrote:
Soldiers who have lost mates in the conflict and likely friends and family who were civilians before it.
War is fucking shit. Have you even read the article before commenting on it? It's not talking about soldiers, these are random Israeli civilians being hateful cunts and nothing else to it. They're literally talking about wanting Gazan children to die because 'they'll grow up to be terrorists someday anyway.' Like, no shit they will if you treat them like this. Omg! There are hateful Israelis! You should read some hateful quotes from Americans, Canadians, Koreans and literally people any where and every where. Tons about the Jews from all the countries around, but usually they only print the ones from the leaders. It’s not news, I mean it is if you are looking to paint all the Israelis in a bad light but for everyone else it should be like, duh there are hateful people everywhere. Sure but you seem to consistently handwave Israeli awfulness with ‘well this sucks what do you expect?’ way more easily than stuff on the Palestinian side of the ledger. No one posts the Palestinian civilians saying stuff because no one here hates the Palestinian civilians, if they did I would hand wave it as well. You have personally brought up Palestinians saying stuff to justify your positions in this thread multiple times. That aside, the real issue isn't that there is a bunch of hateful Israelis being, well, hateful. Most of us here already knew that Israelis are racist against Palestinians so it's not much of a surprise. The issue is that Israeli state actors -- including, apparently, high rank military commanders -- are complicit in blockades of absolutely vital aid. Not even because of some 'there might be guns in there!' excuse or whatever they've used to openly block aid deliveries in the past, but simply because they really just don't give a fuck about how many Gazans will starve and die, and they don't even care enough to pretend and lie about it. Depriving civilians of vital supplies is a war crime, by the way. You know, that thing you keep arguing Israel totally doesn't do. The article reads that way. Of course it does not mention that the IDF and police have clashed with the protestors before that [1] [2] [3] [4] and have continued to clash [5]. The protestors from the WP article were removed the day after [6]. The police and IDF have also continued facilitating aid to the strip [7]. It doesn't change the fact the famine is due to israeli blocus which include bombing and shoting at trucks while blocking it during inspection according to humanitarians which operate there. Humanitarians which israeli successfully villified to the point the support from western country ceased. There is only one responsible of this famine, negationism is bad.
No, there was already a blockade before the current war but no food shortage .The primary culprit for the current humanitarian situation is Hamas. By launching an attack with their sole strategy for survival being increasing the suffering of their own people to put pressure on Israel to retreat. They do this by hiding behind civilians and civilian infrastructure making them a valid military target. They've managed to discredit the primary humanitarian aid organization their people relied on by infiltrating it and using their employees and infrastructure for their purposes. That does not mean Israel does not play a role. They can open the border crossing in the north of Gaza and there's still not a good plan on what to do after Hamas as we see in northern Gaza.
|
"They do this by hiding behind civilians and civilian infrastructure making them a valid military target."
The IDF has attacked various refugee camps. That's more than "Israel also playing a role". It's a war crime.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
