EPTThings Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine - Page 232
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NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Cerebrate1
265 Posts
On March 07 2024 21:50 Magic Powers wrote: "They do this by hiding behind civilians and civilian infrastructure making them a valid military target." The IDF has attacked various refugee camps. That's more than "Israel also playing a role". It's a war crime. Refugee camps are not more sacrosanct in the Geneva Conventions than hospitals. If there is military infrastructure there, it's a valid military target. | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
On March 07 2024 23:15 Cerebrate1 wrote: Refugee camps are not more sacrosanct in the Geneva Conventions than hospitals. If there is military infrastructure there, it's a valid military target. Mask off. | ||
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Cricketer12
United States13991 Posts
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Cerebrate1
265 Posts
On March 07 2024 15:10 Acrofales wrote: None of the surrounding countries have a government that follows an ideology of martyrdom. I agree that nuking Gaza or WB would be ineffective and counterproductive on very very many levels. Ya, Israel nuking Gaza or the WB would also basically be like nuking itself with how fallout works. It's true that the current governments of Egypt, Lebanon, and Jordan are not Islamist. The current threats are more Iran, Hezbollah, Hamas, the Houthis, and various Iraqi militias. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12405 Posts
On March 07 2024 12:52 gobbledydook wrote: It’s lebensraum right? Straight out of the Nazi playbook The parallel is clear but if you want to get technical it's not the nazi playbook, it's the colonial one. It's more that the Nazi playbook was inspired by colonial ideology and this is as well. There was a cool ass episode of Behind the Bastards about Hitler being a huge fan of Karl May's books. Edit: probably should be using Fanon as a reference for this rather than a podcast, wtf am I writing lol ^_^ | ||
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Salazarz
Korea (South)2591 Posts
On March 07 2024 22:59 JimmiC wrote: It is more so then the old not all criticisms of Israel are antisemitic, but all antisemitic's criticize Israel. So take this comparison the word, that I like probably everyone had never heard of, basically originally meant expansionism for Germany, not the worst comparison. But you throw in the Nazi part, and you read how they perverted the term to also include their biopolitical and race superiority bullshit and you see that the comparison falls flat. So I'm not saying that gobbeydook is antisemitic, he probably just read it on a facebook or instagram post, didn't look into it and was like "ya they are like the Nazis". Which was likely the goal of the antisemitic guy/gal who made the original post. Obligatory reminder that Israel has openly enshrined racial supremacy of Jews in their constitution. The only way you can have all the rights in the state of Israel is by being Jewish. There is literally no way for an Arabic (or any other non-Jewish) person to have equal rights to a Jew in their country. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Cerebrate1
265 Posts
Eh. I didn't say anything about the morality of the situation in that post. You claimed that something was a war crime. I clarified that it is not necessarily a war crime based on the actual definition of war crimes. You may have "unmasked" that I have a compulsive need to correct inaccuracies, but I've mentioned that that is my MO a couple time myself. If you wanted to have a conversation about the morality of the situation instead of pointing to technical war crimes, we would have had a different discussion. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
On March 08 2024 00:42 Cerebrate1 wrote: Eh. I didn't say anything about the morality of the situation in that post. You claimed that something was a war crime. I clarified that it is not necessarily a war crime based on the actual definition of war crimes. You may have "unmasked" that I have a compulsive need to correct inaccuracies, but I've mentioned that that is my MO a couple time myself. If you wanted to have a conversation about the morality of the situation instead of pointing to technical war crimes, we would have had a different discussion. Your opinion is pretty weightless compared to the many institutions and scholars who call Israel's actions war crimes. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
Now Hamas is demanding a permanent ceasefire instead of a six week pause. CAIRO — Hamas said a delegation of its officials had left the current round of cease-fire talks in the Egyptian capital Thursday as negotiations continue. The group said in a statement on Telegram that its officials had “left Cairo to consult with the leadership of the movement” over unresolved issues concerning humanitarian aid, ending the fighting and returning displaced Gazans. Egyptian state media reported that talks would resume next week. Separately, a Hamas official told The Post that the delegation left for Doha to meet with Hamas leadership based in Qatar. “The round in Cairo ended but the negotiations did not end, the negotiations are continuing,” the official said, speaking on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak about ongoing negotiations. “We want a permanent cease-fire, and we want the withdrawal of the Israeli army from the Gaza Strip.” The official said Hamas wanted displaced Gazans to return to the strip’s north and had rejected demands to “divide Gaza into two parts.” The Hamas official added that they were seeking a permanent cease-fire that would extend beyond Ramadan — amid fears from his side that a six-week truce releasing all the hostages would leave Gazans with no guarantee that hostilities would not resume after the time period expires. The Islamic fasting month is due to begin on Sunday or Monday. State Department spokesman Matthew Miller told reporters Wednesday that he was still optimistic a deal could be agreed. “We continue to believe that the obstacles are not insurmountable and that a deal can be reached,” he told reporters, adding that an agreement is in the interest of all parties and the broader region. At a briefing Thursday afternoon local time, David Mencer, an Israeli government spokesperson, said he “can’t comment on our efforts to release the hostages. Israel would do whatever she can to release them.” “It is Hamas who is the stumbling block, by not giving the list of the names of the hostages,” he said. Source | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26321 Posts
On March 08 2024 00:45 JimmiC wrote: Not to be too picky, but there was a war crime, just it was Hamas putting their military assets there. The real war crime is the friends we made along the way. There’s a difference between an actual military target, and a location that military or paramilitary personnel happen to be in. Undoubtedly there have been many occasions where Hamas have used positions embedded in civilian populations and launched attacks, it’s a very well-noted tactic. Is it every single time in a conflict where tens of thousands have died? There has to be some kind of distinction here otherwise the Geneva Conventions are more toothless and functionally useless than they presently are. Can you bomb a hospital if it’s full of convalescing military personnel? I mean most people would say no and it’s against the spirit of those conventions and generally quite morally repugnant. One could make the argument that experienced military personnel who are going to recirculate into active rotation are a pretty big military asset, but I digress. I’d argue it’s basically pointless to even use the term in any non moral-intuition based sense. If proportionality is out the window, and if any area that contains Hamas members is fair game there is scarcely much point in having designated war crimes in international law. | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6267 Posts
On March 07 2024 21:50 Magic Powers wrote: "They do this by hiding behind civilians and civilian infrastructure making them a valid military target." The IDF has attacked various refugee camps. That's more than "Israel also playing a role". It's a war crime. Refugee camps in name only. They were refugee camps decades ago and developed into cities. Either way even civilian objects with special protections under IHL can become a valid target. Rules are stricter but it's possible nonetheless. If we think about it that makes a lot of sense because otherwise it'd be very easy for organizations like Hamas to abuse IHL in their favor. Whether these attacks are a war crime or not is heavily context dependent. We almost always do not have that context. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12405 Posts
On March 08 2024 02:08 RvB wrote: Refugee camps in name only. They were refugee camps decades ago and developed into cities. Either way even civilian objects with special protections under IHL can become a valid target. Rules are stricter but it's possible nonetheless. If we think about it that makes a lot of sense because otherwise it'd be very easy for organizations like Hamas to abuse IHL in their favor. Whether these attacks are a war crime or not is heavily context dependent. We almost always do not have that context. Hi RvB, can I quickly get your opinion on this military strategy? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahiya_doctrine | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
President Joe Biden is to announce that the US military will construct a port in Gaza to get more humanitarian aid into the territory by sea, senior US officials say. He will make the announcement during his State of the Union address later. The temporary port will increase the amount of humanitarian assistance to Palestinians by "hundreds of additional truckloads" per day, officials say. The effort will reportedly take "a number of weeks" to execute. The initial shipments will arrive via Cyprus and security will be coordinated with Israel, officials say. In his speech to Congress on Thursday, President Biden will announce that he has ordered the military "to undertake an emergency mission to establish a port in Gaza, working with like-minded countries and humanitarian partners", an official said. Source | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
On March 08 2024 02:08 RvB wrote: Refugee camps in name only. They were refugee camps decades ago and developed into cities. Either way even civilian objects with special protections under IHL can become a valid target. Rules are stricter but it's possible nonetheless. If we think about it that makes a lot of sense because otherwise it'd be very easy for organizations like Hamas to abuse IHL in their favor. Whether these attacks are a war crime or not is heavily context dependent. We almost always do not have that context. I'm sure the "context" of bullets and shrapnels ripping through men, women and children who were told to move South to flee from a war zone is very relevant to them now that they've met their maker. | ||
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