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On March 08 2024 01:23 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2024 23:43 Salazarz wrote:On March 07 2024 22:59 JimmiC wrote:On March 07 2024 16:57 Mikau wrote:On March 07 2024 15:33 JimmiC wrote:On March 07 2024 12:52 gobbledydook wrote:On March 07 2024 07:18 JimmiC wrote:On March 07 2024 06:43 WombaT wrote:On March 07 2024 04:56 Ciaus237 wrote:BBC: Israel approves plans for 3,400 new homes in West Bank settlementsDon't really have much to say on this one. It's such blatant settler colonialism, and meanwhile Israel gets little more than a finger-wag from the rest of the world. I think that if my country was in a slightly more politically useful location that apartheid would be ongoing and we'd be getting a blank cheque from the US to sustain it.
Israel's Haaretz newspaper said the Higher Planning Committee of the Civil Administration - the body that implements Israeli government policy in the West Bank - had advanced plans for the development of 3,476 settler homes on Wednesday - with 2,452 in Maale Adumim, 694 in Efrat and 330 in Kedar.
Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich, a far-right politician who oversees the Civil Administration, said following the meeting that a total of 18,515 homes in West Bank settlements had now been approved over the past year.
"The enemies try to harm and weaken us but we will continue to build and be built up in this land," he wrote on X, formerly Twitter.
It’s the craic like this that is largely indefensible and drives a lot of ire against Israel from folks like yours truly. The issue of security and having a population next door that wishes to do your populace harm, and how to deal with that is a lot less cut and dry and intractable, so I try to demarcate between the two although there is crossover naturally. So long as Israel engages in overt colonialism well, folks will consider them as engaging in overt colonialism. Its probably better to define it as annexation. Colonialism requires they exploit the place for economic reasons, which is not the case. It’s lebensraum right? Straight out of the Nazi playbook Of course not. Were you aware that many consider what you just did there antisemitism, it is a debated topic in academia. https://www.worldjewishcongress.org/en/news/antisemitism-defined-why-drawing-comparisons-of-contemporary-israeli-policy-to-the-nazis-is-antisemitichttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparisons_between_Israel_and_Nazi_Germany Isn't that convenient. Comparing Israeli policy to Nazi policy is antisemitic, even if there are obvious parallels between the two. A nice and easy way to make sure you never have to take responsibility for the fucked up shit you do. It is more so then the old not all criticisms of Israel are antisemitic, but all antisemitic's criticize Israel. So take this comparison the word, that I like probably everyone had never heard of, basically originally meant expansionism for Germany, not the worst comparison. But you throw in the Nazi part, and you read how they perverted the term to also include their biopolitical and race superiority bullshit and you see that the comparison falls flat. So I'm not saying that gobbeydook is antisemitic, he probably just read it on a facebook or instagram post, didn't look into it and was like "ya they are like the Nazis". Which was likely the goal of the antisemitic guy/gal who made the original post. Obligatory reminder that Israel has openly enshrined racial supremacy of Jews in their constitution. The only way you can have all the rights in the state of Israel is by being Jewish. There is literally no way for an Arabic (or any other non-Jewish) person to have equal rights to a Jew in their country. Obviously lots wrong with your hot take. The easiest is probably that Jewish people can be of every race.
There is an artificial set of qualities that determines whether a person is eligible for the full set of rights guaranteed by Israel's constitution or not; and even being a citizen of Israel does not guarantee you said full rights. You can obviously find ways how it isn't totally same as the Nazis were, but I mean, I'm pretty sure nobody saying that Israel is becoming modern day Nazis is claiming that they are literally one and the same -- just like people who claim that Hamas are same as Nazis probably aren't meaning that in the absolute sense, or people who claim that Putin's Russia is same as Nazis probably don't mean it in the absolute sense.
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On March 08 2024 02:10 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2024 02:08 RvB wrote:On March 07 2024 21:50 Magic Powers wrote:
"They do this by hiding behind civilians and civilian infrastructure making them a valid military target."
The IDF has attacked various refugee camps. That's more than "Israel also playing a role". It's a war crime. Refugee camps in name only. They were refugee camps decades ago and developed into cities. Either way even civilian objects with special protections under IHL can become a valid target. Rules are stricter but it's possible nonetheless. If we think about it that makes a lot of sense because otherwise it'd be very easy for organizations like Hamas to abuse IHL in their favor. Whether these attacks are a war crime or not is heavily context dependent. We almost always do not have that context. Hi RvB, can I quickly get your opinion on this military strategy? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahiya_doctrine
What do you want me to say? It's based on two quotes from a military conflict almost two decades ago and a UN report where one of the main authors makes the same observation I do: that the conclusions depend on information from Israel.
On March 08 2024 02:26 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2024 02:08 RvB wrote:On March 07 2024 21:50 Magic Powers wrote:
"They do this by hiding behind civilians and civilian infrastructure making them a valid military target."
The IDF has attacked various refugee camps. That's more than "Israel also playing a role". It's a war crime. Refugee camps in name only. They were refugee camps decades ago and developed into cities. Either way even civilian objects with special protections under IHL can become a valid target. Rules are stricter but it's possible nonetheless. If we think about it that makes a lot of sense because otherwise it'd be very easy for organizations like Hamas to abuse IHL in their favor. Whether these attacks are a war crime or not is heavily context dependent. We almost always do not have that context. I'm sure the "context" of bullets and shrapnels ripping through men, women and children who were told to move South to flee from a war zone is very relevant to them now that they've met their maker.
You're shifting the goal posts. Your claim is that it is a war crime. Obviously nobody cares whether something is legally a war crime or not when you're in an active war zone fearing for your life. Nobody disputes that.
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On March 08 2024 02:57 Salazarz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2024 01:23 JimmiC wrote:On March 07 2024 23:43 Salazarz wrote:On March 07 2024 22:59 JimmiC wrote:On March 07 2024 16:57 Mikau wrote:On March 07 2024 15:33 JimmiC wrote:On March 07 2024 12:52 gobbledydook wrote:On March 07 2024 07:18 JimmiC wrote:On March 07 2024 06:43 WombaT wrote:On March 07 2024 04:56 Ciaus237 wrote:BBC: Israel approves plans for 3,400 new homes in West Bank settlementsDon't really have much to say on this one. It's such blatant settler colonialism, and meanwhile Israel gets little more than a finger-wag from the rest of the world. I think that if my country was in a slightly more politically useful location that apartheid would be ongoing and we'd be getting a blank cheque from the US to sustain it. [quote] It’s the craic like this that is largely indefensible and drives a lot of ire against Israel from folks like yours truly. The issue of security and having a population next door that wishes to do your populace harm, and how to deal with that is a lot less cut and dry and intractable, so I try to demarcate between the two although there is crossover naturally. So long as Israel engages in overt colonialism well, folks will consider them as engaging in overt colonialism. Its probably better to define it as annexation. Colonialism requires they exploit the place for economic reasons, which is not the case. It’s lebensraum right? Straight out of the Nazi playbook Of course not. Were you aware that many consider what you just did there antisemitism, it is a debated topic in academia. https://www.worldjewishcongress.org/en/news/antisemitism-defined-why-drawing-comparisons-of-contemporary-israeli-policy-to-the-nazis-is-antisemitichttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparisons_between_Israel_and_Nazi_Germany Isn't that convenient. Comparing Israeli policy to Nazi policy is antisemitic, even if there are obvious parallels between the two. A nice and easy way to make sure you never have to take responsibility for the fucked up shit you do. It is more so then the old not all criticisms of Israel are antisemitic, but all antisemitic's criticize Israel. So take this comparison the word, that I like probably everyone had never heard of, basically originally meant expansionism for Germany, not the worst comparison. But you throw in the Nazi part, and you read how they perverted the term to also include their biopolitical and race superiority bullshit and you see that the comparison falls flat. So I'm not saying that gobbeydook is antisemitic, he probably just read it on a facebook or instagram post, didn't look into it and was like "ya they are like the Nazis". Which was likely the goal of the antisemitic guy/gal who made the original post. Obligatory reminder that Israel has openly enshrined racial supremacy of Jews in their constitution. The only way you can have all the rights in the state of Israel is by being Jewish. There is literally no way for an Arabic (or any other non-Jewish) person to have equal rights to a Jew in their country. Obviously lots wrong with your hot take. The easiest is probably that Jewish people can be of every race. There is an artificial set of qualities that determines whether a person is eligible for the full set of rights guaranteed by Israel's constitution or not; and even being a citizen of Israel does not guarantee you said full rights. You can obviously find ways how it isn't totally same as the Nazis were, but I mean, I'm pretty sure nobody saying that Israel is becoming modern day Nazis is claiming that they are literally one and the same -- just like people who claim that Hamas are same as Nazis probably aren't meaning that in the absolute sense, or people who claim that Putin's Russia is same as Nazis probably don't mean it in the absolute sense.
Worth remembering that sometimes they call themselves Nazis.
Israeli far-right supremacists shared selfies posing with guns and messages such as “Tonight we are not Jews, we are Nazis” + Show Spoiler +during the occupation state’s recent crackdown on protestors, a new report by Amnesty International has confirmed. The brutal clampdown followed an unprecedented show of solidarity by Palestinian citizens of Israel, who staged a general strike in protest at Israel’s 11 day onslaught against the Gaza Strip which killed more than 250 people, including women and children.
The report investigated the conduct of Israeli police during May and June’s crackdown on Palestinians. It found that a catalogue of violations were committed by security officials against Palestinians in occupied East Jerusalem, including the use of unlawful force against peaceful protesters, sweeping mass arrests and subjecting detainees to torture and other ill-treatment.
Elected parliamentarians joined the wave of hate which was described at the time as “pogroms”. According to Amnesty on 12 May, hundreds of Jewish supremacists gathered on the Bat Yam Promenade in central Israel, in response to messages received from the political party Jewish Power and other groups. Verified video footage shows scores of activists attacking Arab-owned businesses and encouraging attackers.
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On March 08 2024 03:12 RvB wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2024 02:10 Nebuchad wrote:On March 08 2024 02:08 RvB wrote:On March 07 2024 21:50 Magic Powers wrote:
"They do this by hiding behind civilians and civilian infrastructure making them a valid military target."
The IDF has attacked various refugee camps. That's more than "Israel also playing a role". It's a war crime. Refugee camps in name only. They were refugee camps decades ago and developed into cities. Either way even civilian objects with special protections under IHL can become a valid target. Rules are stricter but it's possible nonetheless. If we think about it that makes a lot of sense because otherwise it'd be very easy for organizations like Hamas to abuse IHL in their favor. Whether these attacks are a war crime or not is heavily context dependent. We almost always do not have that context. Hi RvB, can I quickly get your opinion on this military strategy? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahiya_doctrine What do you want me to say? It's based on two quotes from a military conflict almost two decades ago and a UN report where one of the main authors makes the same observation I do: that the conclusions depend on information from Israel.
Okay so the first thing I would want you to say is whether you would agree that, if it is true that they're doing this, it amounts to a war crime. Cause maybe you don't, I wouldn't know.
Second, I would ask what you think is more likely based on the results that we see on the ground, that they're applying this strategy that they said they would be applying, or that they've verified that Hamas is hiding in every single building which makes them all valid military targets because they really care about military laws.
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So it's official. It also appears that Europe will also take part. Though I would very surprised if that meant soldiers guarding said port.
WASHINGTON (AP) — U.S. President Joe Biden will announce a plan Thursday for the U.S. military to help establish a temporary port on the Gaza coast to increase the flow of aid into the territory during the Israel-Hamas war, according to senior administration officials.
The announcement comes amid a widening humanitarian crisis across Gaza that has forced many people to scramble for food to survive and begun leading to deaths from malnutrition.
Hopes for reaching a cease-fire before the upcoming Muslim holy month of Ramadan, which starts in the coming days, stalled Thursday when Hamas said its delegation had left Cairo, where talks on a deal were being held. The outline for the cease-fire would have including a wide infusion of aid into Gaza.
Aid groups have said their efforts to deliver desperately needed supplies to Gaza have been badly hampered because of the difficulty of coordinating with the Israeli military, the ongoing hostilities and the breakdown of public order. It is even more difficult to get aid to the isolated north.
The U.S. officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to preview Biden’s announcement before his State of the Union speech, said the planned operation will not require American troops on the ground to build the pier that is intended to allow more shipments of food, medicine and other essential items.
The officials did not provide details about how the pier would be built. One noted that the U.S. military has “unique capabilities” and can do things from “just offshore.” They said it would likely take weeks before the pier was operational.
The port will allow shipments to flow into Gaza via Cyprus from the U.S. military and allies, the administration officials said.
The move provides one more layer to the extraordinary dynamic that’s emerged as the United States has had to go around Israel, its main Mideast ally, and find ways to get aid into Gaza, including through airdrops that started last week.
Pressure on Israel to establish a sea route for aid has been growing in recent days. European Union Commission Chief Ursula von der Leyen planned to visit Cyprus on Friday to inspect installations at the port of Larnaca, from where aid is expected to leave for Gaza if a sea route is established. Israeli officials said Wednesday the country would cooperate with the creation of a sea route from Cyprus, an idea that’s been under discussion for months.
American Gen. Erik Kurilla, head of U.S. Central Command, told the U.S. Senate Armed Services Committee that he had briefed officials on such a maritime option. Kurilla said Central Command has provided options for increasing the number of trucks taking aid to areas in northern Gaza.
Palestinian militants are believed to be holding around 100 hostages and the remains of 30 others captured during Hamas’ Oct. 7 attack into Israel that triggered the war.
Egyptian officials said Hamas has agreed to the main terms of such an agreement as a first stage but wants commitments that it will lead to an eventual more permanent cease-fire. They say Israel wants to confine the negotiations to the more limited agreement.
The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the negotiations with media. Both officials said mediators are still pressing the two parties to soften their positions.
Hamas spokesman Jihad Taha said Israel “refuses to commit to and give guarantees regarding the cease-fire, the return of the displaced, and withdrawal from the areas of its incursion.” But he said the talks were still ongoing and would resume next week. There was no immediate comment from Israel.
Mediators had looked to Ramadan, which is expected to begin on Sunday, as an informal deadline for a deal because the month of dawn-to-dusk fasting often sees Israeli-Palestinian violence linked to access to a major Jerusalem holy site. The war already has the wider region on edge, with Iran-backed groups trading fire with Israel and the United States.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has publicly ruled out Hamas’ demands for an end to the war, saying Israel intends to resume the offensive after any cease-fire, expand it to the crowded southern city of Rafah and battle on until “total victory.” He has said military pressure will help bring about the release of the hostages.
“The (Israeli military) will continue to operate against all Hamas battalions all over the strip — and this includes Rafah, the last stronghold of Hamas,” Netanyahu said at a combat officers’ graduation ceremony Friday. “Whoever tells us not to operate in Rafah tell us to lose the war. And that will not happen.”
Hamas-led militants killed some 1,200 people, mostly civilians, and captured another 250 when they stormed across the border on Oct. 7. Over 100 hostages were released in a cease-fire deal last year.
Israel launched a massive air, land and sea campaign in Gaza that has driven some 80% of the population from their homes and pushed hundreds of thousands to the brink of famine.
Gaza’s Health Ministry says at least 30,717 Palestinians have been killed. It does not differentiate between civilians and combatants in its tallies but says women and children make up around two-thirds of those killed. The ministry, which is part of the Hamas-run government, maintains detailed records and its casualty figures from previous wars have largely matched those of the U.N. and independent experts.
Israel says it has killed over 13,000 Hamas fighters, without providing evidence. It blames the high civilian death toll on Hamas because its fighters operate in dense, residential neighborhoods.
Gaza’s humanitarian crisis is particularly dire in the north, where many of the estimated 300,000 people still living there have been reduced to eating animal fodder to survive. The U.N. says one in six children younger than 2 in the north suffers from acute malnutrition.
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On March 08 2024 03:17 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2024 02:57 Salazarz wrote:On March 08 2024 01:23 JimmiC wrote:On March 07 2024 23:43 Salazarz wrote:On March 07 2024 22:59 JimmiC wrote:On March 07 2024 16:57 Mikau wrote:On March 07 2024 15:33 JimmiC wrote:On March 07 2024 12:52 gobbledydook wrote:On March 07 2024 07:18 JimmiC wrote:On March 07 2024 06:43 WombaT wrote:
[quote]
It’s the craic like this that is largely indefensible and drives a lot of ire against Israel from folks like yours truly.
The issue of security and having a population next door that wishes to do your populace harm, and how to deal with that is a lot less cut and dry and intractable, so I try to demarcate between the two although there is crossover naturally.
So long as Israel engages in overt colonialism well, folks will consider them as engaging in overt colonialism. Its probably better to define it as annexation. Colonialism requires they exploit the place for economic reasons, which is not the case. It’s lebensraum right? Straight out of the Nazi playbook Of course not. Were you aware that many consider what you just did there antisemitism, it is a debated topic in academia. https://www.worldjewishcongress.org/en/news/antisemitism-defined-why-drawing-comparisons-of-contemporary-israeli-policy-to-the-nazis-is-antisemitichttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparisons_between_Israel_and_Nazi_Germany Isn't that convenient. Comparing Israeli policy to Nazi policy is antisemitic, even if there are obvious parallels between the two. A nice and easy way to make sure you never have to take responsibility for the fucked up shit you do. It is more so then the old not all criticisms of Israel are antisemitic, but all antisemitic's criticize Israel. So take this comparison the word, that I like probably everyone had never heard of, basically originally meant expansionism for Germany, not the worst comparison. But you throw in the Nazi part, and you read how they perverted the term to also include their biopolitical and race superiority bullshit and you see that the comparison falls flat. So I'm not saying that gobbeydook is antisemitic, he probably just read it on a facebook or instagram post, didn't look into it and was like "ya they are like the Nazis". Which was likely the goal of the antisemitic guy/gal who made the original post. Obligatory reminder that Israel has openly enshrined racial supremacy of Jews in their constitution. The only way you can have all the rights in the state of Israel is by being Jewish. There is literally no way for an Arabic (or any other non-Jewish) person to have equal rights to a Jew in their country. Obviously lots wrong with your hot take. The easiest is probably that Jewish people can be of every race. There is an artificial set of qualities that determines whether a person is eligible for the full set of rights guaranteed by Israel's constitution or not; and even being a citizen of Israel does not guarantee you said full rights. You can obviously find ways how it isn't totally same as the Nazis were, but I mean, I'm pretty sure nobody saying that Israel is becoming modern day Nazis is claiming that they are literally one and the same -- just like people who claim that Hamas are same as Nazis probably aren't meaning that in the absolute sense, or people who claim that Putin's Russia is same as Nazis probably don't mean it in the absolute sense. But you can obviously see given the history of the Jews and Nazi's why comparing the two would be problematic no? Have you not been on the other side of many dog whistle arguments?
Why is it problematic to compare modern Israel to Nazis, but not modern Russia?
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On March 08 2024 05:27 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2024 05:21 Salazarz wrote:On March 08 2024 03:17 JimmiC wrote:On March 08 2024 02:57 Salazarz wrote:On March 08 2024 01:23 JimmiC wrote:On March 07 2024 23:43 Salazarz wrote:On March 07 2024 22:59 JimmiC wrote:On March 07 2024 16:57 Mikau wrote:Isn't that convenient. Comparing Israeli policy to Nazi policy is antisemitic, even if there are obvious parallels between the two. A nice and easy way to make sure you never have to take responsibility for the fucked up shit you do. It is more so then the old not all criticisms of Israel are antisemitic, but all antisemitic's criticize Israel. So take this comparison the word, that I like probably everyone had never heard of, basically originally meant expansionism for Germany, not the worst comparison. But you throw in the Nazi part, and you read how they perverted the term to also include their biopolitical and race superiority bullshit and you see that the comparison falls flat. So I'm not saying that gobbeydook is antisemitic, he probably just read it on a facebook or instagram post, didn't look into it and was like "ya they are like the Nazis". Which was likely the goal of the antisemitic guy/gal who made the original post. Obligatory reminder that Israel has openly enshrined racial supremacy of Jews in their constitution. The only way you can have all the rights in the state of Israel is by being Jewish. There is literally no way for an Arabic (or any other non-Jewish) person to have equal rights to a Jew in their country. Obviously lots wrong with your hot take. The easiest is probably that Jewish people can be of every race. There is an artificial set of qualities that determines whether a person is eligible for the full set of rights guaranteed by Israel's constitution or not; and even being a citizen of Israel does not guarantee you said full rights. You can obviously find ways how it isn't totally same as the Nazis were, but I mean, I'm pretty sure nobody saying that Israel is becoming modern day Nazis is claiming that they are literally one and the same -- just like people who claim that Hamas are same as Nazis probably aren't meaning that in the absolute sense, or people who claim that Putin's Russia is same as Nazis probably don't mean it in the absolute sense. But you can obviously see given the history of the Jews and Nazi's why comparing the two would be problematic no? Have you not been on the other side of many dog whistle arguments? Why is it problematic to compare modern Israel to Nazis, but not modern Russia? Is that a real question? Because a huge part of the Nazi ideology wasn't and isn't killing all the Russians. ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
If I was to reply to this with:
'No but a huge part of Israel's ideology is killing all the Palestinians' is that a subtle enough comparison to avoid accusations of antisemitism?
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On March 08 2024 05:35 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2024 05:27 JimmiC wrote:On March 08 2024 05:21 Salazarz wrote:On March 08 2024 03:17 JimmiC wrote:On March 08 2024 02:57 Salazarz wrote:On March 08 2024 01:23 JimmiC wrote:On March 07 2024 23:43 Salazarz wrote:On March 07 2024 22:59 JimmiC wrote:On March 07 2024 16:57 Mikau wrote:Isn't that convenient. Comparing Israeli policy to Nazi policy is antisemitic, even if there are obvious parallels between the two. A nice and easy way to make sure you never have to take responsibility for the fucked up shit you do. It is more so then the old not all criticisms of Israel are antisemitic, but all antisemitic's criticize Israel. So take this comparison the word, that I like probably everyone had never heard of, basically originally meant expansionism for Germany, not the worst comparison. But you throw in the Nazi part, and you read how they perverted the term to also include their biopolitical and race superiority bullshit and you see that the comparison falls flat. So I'm not saying that gobbeydook is antisemitic, he probably just read it on a facebook or instagram post, didn't look into it and was like "ya they are like the Nazis". Which was likely the goal of the antisemitic guy/gal who made the original post. Obligatory reminder that Israel has openly enshrined racial supremacy of Jews in their constitution. The only way you can have all the rights in the state of Israel is by being Jewish. There is literally no way for an Arabic (or any other non-Jewish) person to have equal rights to a Jew in their country. Obviously lots wrong with your hot take. The easiest is probably that Jewish people can be of every race. There is an artificial set of qualities that determines whether a person is eligible for the full set of rights guaranteed by Israel's constitution or not; and even being a citizen of Israel does not guarantee you said full rights. You can obviously find ways how it isn't totally same as the Nazis were, but I mean, I'm pretty sure nobody saying that Israel is becoming modern day Nazis is claiming that they are literally one and the same -- just like people who claim that Hamas are same as Nazis probably aren't meaning that in the absolute sense, or people who claim that Putin's Russia is same as Nazis probably don't mean it in the absolute sense. But you can obviously see given the history of the Jews and Nazi's why comparing the two would be problematic no? Have you not been on the other side of many dog whistle arguments? Why is it problematic to compare modern Israel to Nazis, but not modern Russia? Is that a real question? Because a huge part of the Nazi ideology wasn't and isn't killing all the Russians. ?!?!?!?!?!?!?! If I was to reply to this with: 'No but a huge part of Israel's ideology is killing all the Palestinians' is that a subtle enough comparison to avoid accusations of antisemitism?
Yes because we don't have to kill all the Palestinians, just need to remove them.
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I'm certainly no expert on the topic but the only thing I've seen in the last few posts that seemed antisemitic to me was when JimmiC equated Israel and Jewish people, making the disgusting generalization that all Jewish people agree with Israel's actions and that criticism of Israel was criticism of Jews. Other than that I didn't spot anything reprehensible.
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On March 08 2024 06:10 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2024 06:08 Nebuchad wrote:
I'm certainly no expert on the topic but the only thing I've seen in the last few posts that seemed antisemitic to me was when JimmiC equated Israel and Jewish people, making the disgusting generalization that all Jewish people agree with Israel's actions and that criticism of Israel was criticism of Jews. Other than that I didn't spot anything reprehensible. As I said to salazar on the last make up, Source it or fuck off.
On March 08 2024 03:17 JimmiC wrote:
But you can obviously see given the history of the Jews and Nazi's why comparing the two would be problematic no?
Have you not been on the other side of many dog whistle arguments?
Well right there you said that given the history of the Jews and Nazis it is problematic to compare Israel with Nazis, which in a world where Jews and Israel are clearly separated groups, it isn't.
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On March 08 2024 06:24 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2024 06:18 Nebuchad wrote:On March 08 2024 06:10 JimmiC wrote:On March 08 2024 06:08 Nebuchad wrote:
I'm certainly no expert on the topic but the only thing I've seen in the last few posts that seemed antisemitic to me was when JimmiC equated Israel and Jewish people, making the disgusting generalization that all Jewish people agree with Israel's actions and that criticism of Israel was criticism of Jews. Other than that I didn't spot anything reprehensible. As I said to salazar on the last make up, Source it or fuck off. On March 08 2024 03:17 JimmiC wrote:
But you can obviously see given the history of the Jews and Nazi's why comparing the two would be problematic no?
Have you not been on the other side of many dog whistle arguments? Well right there you said that given the history of the Jews and Nazis it is problematic to compare Israel with Nazis, which in a world where Jews and Israel are clearly separated groups, it isn't. Wow, how embarrassing for you. Wait until you find out how it got started. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_state#:~:text=10 External links-,Overview,for British Palestine in 1947.
I've read this wiki page before, it's a good summary of how far right and unequal zionist ideology is at a fundamental level. But I'm not a zionist though, so I'm unsure why I would be embarrassed by it.
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On March 08 2024 05:38 Cricketer12 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2024 05:35 Jockmcplop wrote:On March 08 2024 05:27 JimmiC wrote:On March 08 2024 05:21 Salazarz wrote:On March 08 2024 03:17 JimmiC wrote:On March 08 2024 02:57 Salazarz wrote:On March 08 2024 01:23 JimmiC wrote:On March 07 2024 23:43 Salazarz wrote:On March 07 2024 22:59 JimmiC wrote:On March 07 2024 16:57 Mikau wrote:
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Isn't that convenient.
Comparing Israeli policy to Nazi policy is antisemitic, even if there are obvious parallels between the two. A nice and easy way to make sure you never have to take responsibility for the fucked up shit you do. It is more so then the old not all criticisms of Israel are antisemitic, but all antisemitic's criticize Israel. So take this comparison the word, that I like probably everyone had never heard of, basically originally meant expansionism for Germany, not the worst comparison. But you throw in the Nazi part, and you read how they perverted the term to also include their biopolitical and race superiority bullshit and you see that the comparison falls flat. So I'm not saying that gobbeydook is antisemitic, he probably just read it on a facebook or instagram post, didn't look into it and was like "ya they are like the Nazis". Which was likely the goal of the antisemitic guy/gal who made the original post. Obligatory reminder that Israel has openly enshrined racial supremacy of Jews in their constitution. The only way you can have all the rights in the state of Israel is by being Jewish. There is literally no way for an Arabic (or any other non-Jewish) person to have equal rights to a Jew in their country. Obviously lots wrong with your hot take. The easiest is probably that Jewish people can be of every race. There is an artificial set of qualities that determines whether a person is eligible for the full set of rights guaranteed by Israel's constitution or not; and even being a citizen of Israel does not guarantee you said full rights. You can obviously find ways how it isn't totally same as the Nazis were, but I mean, I'm pretty sure nobody saying that Israel is becoming modern day Nazis is claiming that they are literally one and the same -- just like people who claim that Hamas are same as Nazis probably aren't meaning that in the absolute sense, or people who claim that Putin's Russia is same as Nazis probably don't mean it in the absolute sense. But you can obviously see given the history of the Jews and Nazi's why comparing the two would be problematic no? Have you not been on the other side of many dog whistle arguments? Why is it problematic to compare modern Israel to Nazis, but not modern Russia? Is that a real question? Because a huge part of the Nazi ideology wasn't and isn't killing all the Russians. ?!?!?!?!?!?!?! If I was to reply to this with: 'No but a huge part of Israel's ideology is killing all the Palestinians' is that a subtle enough comparison to avoid accusations of antisemitism? Yes because we don't have to kill all the Palestinians, just need to remove them.
Ah, but once they go up, who cares where they come down. That's not my department, said Werner von Braun.
- Tom Lehrer
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On March 08 2024 06:37 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2024 06:32 Nebuchad wrote:On March 08 2024 06:24 JimmiC wrote:On March 08 2024 06:18 Nebuchad wrote:On March 08 2024 06:10 JimmiC wrote:On March 08 2024 06:08 Nebuchad wrote:
I'm certainly no expert on the topic but the only thing I've seen in the last few posts that seemed antisemitic to me was when JimmiC equated Israel and Jewish people, making the disgusting generalization that all Jewish people agree with Israel's actions and that criticism of Israel was criticism of Jews. Other than that I didn't spot anything reprehensible. As I said to salazar on the last make up, Source it or fuck off. On March 08 2024 03:17 JimmiC wrote:
But you can obviously see given the history of the Jews and Nazi's why comparing the two would be problematic no?
Have you not been on the other side of many dog whistle arguments? Well right there you said that given the history of the Jews and Nazis it is problematic to compare Israel with Nazis, which in a world where Jews and Israel are clearly separated groups, it isn't. Wow, how embarrassing for you. Wait until you find out how it got started. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_state#:~:text=10 External links-,Overview,for British Palestine in 1947. I've read this wiki page before, it's a good summary of how far right and unequal zionist ideology is at a fundamental level. But I'm not a zionist though, so I'm unsure why I would be embarrassed by it. BTW one of the common ways leftists who are antisemites hide it, is by jus saying things about zionists. Might have ticked all the boxes now, congrats! Seriously you should read up even ifit is just to argue me, at least you will have some basis to do so. You should be embarrassed because as per usual I didn't say what you accused me of. Israel is a Jewish state, the only one, and this shouldn't be new information.
First of all I don't think you should have linked to the page "Jewish state" in order to make this point, as "Jewish state" is a page related to conservatism in Israel, talking about how Israel is a state for the Jewish people (and by extension at the exclusion of others).
Second, Israel being a state where a large amount of the population is Jewish doesn't change the fact that unless you are viewing Israel and Jews as synonymous, which in my opinion would be antisemitic, it can't be problematic to make comparisons between Israel and nazis based on the history of Jews and nazis. It's not difficult to see that someone saying something like "The Jews are behaving like nazis" would very likely be moved by antisemitic sentiment. "Israel is behaving like nazis" is a very different statement, because "Israel" and "The Jews" are very different topics. It's a bit surprising that you disagree.
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EPT
