Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine - Page 159

On December 22 2023 16:28 KwarK wrote:
It’s not hard. Palestinian is to Palestine as French is to France. You don’t need to introduce thousand year old books, they think it’s their country because it’s their country. The Spaniards live in Spain. The Swedes live in Sweden. The Palestinians live in Palestine.

I don’t need to assert that I intimately understand the mind of every Palestinian to make this argument. The Palestinians think that they should live in Palestine because it’s Palestine and they’re the Palestinians. It’s not because of some ancient book.

On December 22 2023 18:26 Magic Powers wrote:


"Callous" would be the right word for people who are pleading for Palestinians to flee while at the same time supporting Israel. Do you perhaps see the problem a bit better now?

On December 22 2023 15:33 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Immigration minister Marc Miller changing immigration rules announcing people living in Gaza will be able to apply for temporary residency in Canada.


Good move.

On December 23 2023 01:43 Cerebrate1 wrote:

It seems to me that (at least on this forum) anyone who has supported evacuating Palestinian civilians from a war zone has also supported evacuating Israelis from war zones (like all the communities along the Gaza border or near the Lebanon border whose inhabitants have been displaced within Israel or to other countries.)

I disagree with JimmyJRaynor that individual migration will solve this conflict, but it seems clear that such an opinion is based on prioritization of the value of life over any one side winning the conflict.

On December 23 2023 17:04 Acrofales wrote:
I think the world might be ending: I agree with Nettles.

WASHINGTON—President Biden urged Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to halt a pre-emptive strike against Hezbollah forces in Lebanon days after Hamas militants’ Oct. 7 assault on southern Israel, warning that such an attack could spark a wider regional war.

Israel had intelligence—which the U.S. deemed unreliable—that Hezbollah attackers were preparing to cross the border as part of a multipronged attack, pushing some of Israel’s more hawkish officials to the brink, officials said.

Israeli warplanes were in the air awaiting orders when Biden spoke to Netanyahu on Oct. 11 and told the Israeli prime minister to stand down and think through the consequences of such an action, according to people familiar with the call.

The Israeli attack didn’t go ahead. And the conversation between Biden and other U.S. officials and Netanyahu and his war cabinet—the details of which haven’t been previously reported—set a pattern of White House efforts to guard against any expansion of the conflict that could draw in the U.S.

A major focus of the Biden administration since Oct. 7 has been trying to prevent any escalation along Israel’s northern border with Lebanon, where Israeli forces trade fire almost daily with fighters from Iran-backed Shiite militant group Hezbollah and Palestinian militants. After the Hamas assault, the U.S. sent two aircraft carrier strike groups to the eastern Mediterranean, followed by a nuclear submarine, to bolster deterrence.

More recently, it created a special naval task force in the Red Sea to deal with attacks from Iran-backed Houthi militants in Yemen.

But diplomacy has been at the heart of Washington’s efforts. Amos Hochstein, the White House official leading the efforts to de-escalate tensions at the Israeli-Lebanese border, has ferried between Washington, Beirut and Jerusalem in an attempt to secure a diplomatic end to the fighting. France has also been heavily involved, pushing Lebanon to abide by U.N. Security Council resolution 1701, which calls for Hezbollah forces to pull out of southern Lebanon and stay at least 18 miles away from the Israel border.

The U.S. role in stopping Israel from carrying out a massive attack on Hezbollah in October shows the critical role diplomacy has played in preventing the conflict from metastasizing into a larger regional war.

The U.S. received its first indication of Israel’s proposed plans to pre-emptively strike the morning of Oct. 11 around 6:30 a.m. in Washington, when Israeli officials urgently notified the White House that they believed Hezbollah was planning an attack. Israel knew it couldn’t do it alone, U.S. officials said, and they asked for American support.

Biden’s top intelligence, military and national security advisers—including CIA Director William Burns and Director of National Intelligence Avril Haines, Secretary of State Antony Blinken, Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs CQ Brown—convened later that morning for a principal’s committee meeting to discuss Israel’s proposed plans and determined that U.S. intelligence didn’t correspond with Israel’s.

After Biden was briefed, he got on a call with Netanyahu and his war cabinet urging Israel to stand down. Netanyahu wasn’t convinced, but members of his war cabinet, particularly Defense Minister Yoav Gallant, explained that a broader war was inevitable, and they wanted to get ahead of an attack. The U.S. pushed back, insisting that a bigger war could be averted.

After 45 minutes of discussion, Netanyahu ended the call saying he would discuss the matter with his cabinet, U.S. officials said.

Around the same time, northern Israel went on alert. Israeli soldiers on the northern border received urgent orders from their commanders that they should prepare to fight Hezbollah fighters paragliding and driving into the country from southern Lebanon. Israel sent out an alert for everyone in northern Israel to immediately head into bomb shelters.

The warnings, which later proved to be false alarms, were among a series of incidents that fueled their fears of another attack, U.S. and Israeli officials said.

It took about six hours of back-and-forth calls and meetings before Israeli officials agreed to stand down, as the U.S. insisted the intelligence didn’t suggest an imminent Hezbollah attack.

After getting pushback from Biden, Netanyahu and the war cabinet decided not to go forward with the major strike, U.S. and former Israeli officials said.

Officials in the Israeli prime minister’s office and at the Defense Ministry declined to comment.

Pentagon press secretary Patrick Ryder said the Pentagon remains concerned about tensions along the Israeli-Lebanese border but declined to comment on any specific conversations or intelligence matters. The CIA declined to comment. The State Department didn’t respond to a request for comment.

The risks of miscalculation on both sides of the border persist.

Militants in Lebanon have hit Israel more than 200 times in attacks that have killed 10 people, including seven Israeli soldiers, according to data compiled by the Armed Conflict Location and Event Data Project. Israel has responded with nearly 1,000 strikes inside southern Lebanon that have killed more than 120 Hezbollah fighters and 10 Lebanese civilians.

On Friday, Hezbollah strikes killed one Israeli soldier and seriously wounded another, prompting counterstrikes by Israel into southern Lebanon. Israel on Saturday said it struck Hezbollah that morning and overnight, striking targets linked to the group’s infrastructure.

“The situation now, as everybody knows, it is tense,” Maj. Gen. Aroldo Lazaro Saenz, the Spanish officer who leads the U.N. peacekeeping mission in Lebanon, told reporters earlier this week in Beirut.

Israeli leaders have repeatedly vowed to deliver even more far-reaching blows to Lebanon if Hezbollah doesn’t agree to move back from the border.

“The Americans would say: ‘Let’s explore these options diplomatically’ and Israel is probably much more saying: ‘OK, diplomacy is good, but without the use of force, you are not going to get where you want to go,’” said one Israeli official.

“We say: ‘Deterrence in the north and victory in the south,” the official said. “But it’s very dangerous and you could see an escalation, precisely because Hezbollah continues to act the way it does.’”

There are signs of progress in the diplomatic efforts, however. Lebanon Foreign Minister Abdallah Bou Habib has told French interlocutors that his country is ready to work on a deal, according to Lebanese officials.

And after more than two months of strikes that have delivered a significant blow to Hezbollah forces in Lebanon, Israeli officials also expressed optimism that the militant group would agree to withdraw its forces from the Israel-Lebanon border.

“The feeling is that this is doable now,” one of those officials said.

On December 23 2023 16:01 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:

Bad move because it's helping Israels ethnic cleansing program.They want them out of Gaza and Western governments are helping them facilitate that.

We pay for weapons and bombs Israel uses to accomplish the cleansing and then we pay for the resettlement and ongoing support of those made homeless by those actions as well? It's just so wrong.

On December 24 2023 12:36 flashymarine wrote:
Can't argue the point so you resort to personal attacks. Classy.

On December 24 2023 13:58 Gahlo wrote:

Oh boy, is this where I get to go "uhm, acktually, Palestinians are a semetic people, so Israel are the actual antisemitics" ?