EPTNSFW.
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine - Page 158
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
NSFW. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16216 Posts
we need to get as many people out of Gaza to safety as possible during temporary humanitarian cease fire operations. There is lots of room in Canada. Canadians are leaving Canada in droves! + Show Spoiler + Looking back, planning my exit from Canada was a good move. I graduated with ~80 others and I think only a handful of my classmates remain in Canada. Source: 66% of Waterloo Software Engineering Grads leave Canada immediately after graduation. On December 21 2023 06:01 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: The IDF even warned Israeli higher ups that their Iron Wall etc. was severely lacking. The lesson we've been taught since forever: It is a bad idea to live in the area. GTFO ASAP. Jews who prefer to speak English can move to New York state. prefer to speak French? move to Quebec. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16216 Posts
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KwarK
United States41615 Posts
It’s not reasonable to expect them to leave when leaving can only be seen as ceding any claim to their land. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16216 Posts
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Cricketer12
United States13948 Posts
On December 21 2023 06:47 JimmyJRaynor wrote: I'd like to see both the Jews and Palestinians leave. I think the PM of Canada was referring to people temporarily leaving. Yes, and it's always "temporary leave". Can anyone point to a date on which land was returned to Palestinians? | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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KwarK
United States41615 Posts
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Cerebrate1
265 Posts
On December 21 2023 06:43 KwarK wrote: Every time in the past that Palestinians have fled from their land to avoid violence they’ve not been subsequently allowed back. We’re seeing that now with Israel declaring the need for a DMZ and deciding that it should be on the far side of the border and built by clearing the land. It’s not reasonable to expect them to leave when leaving can only be seen as ceding any claim to their land. Most people care more about their families lives than being pawns in a land war. Syrians fleeing the Syrian Civil War have little hope of returning, but they do so in droves anyways. So too in most refugee situations. I understand not forcing them to leave, but not giving them the option to leave is like deciding for them that it would be better that they risk becoming martyrs for the cause. Not that many countries are throwing the doors open for them anyways. But it seems to me that it would be calous for anyone here to oppose countries providing safe haven for refugees who want it. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16216 Posts
Good move. | ||
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KwarK
United States41615 Posts
On December 22 2023 14:55 Cerebrate1 wrote: Most people care more about their families lives than being pawns in a land war. Syrians fleeing the Syrian Civil War have little hope of returning, but they do so in droves anyways. So too in most refugee situations. I understand not forcing them to leave, but not giving them the option to leave is like deciding for them that it would be better that they risk becoming martyrs for the cause. Not that many countries are throwing the doors open for them anyways. But it seems to me that it would be calous for anyone here to oppose countries providing safe haven for refugees who want it. For sure, people who want to leave should be able to where possible. But frequently people refusing to leave when the IDF warn them that they plan to "clear" the area is viewed as an attempt to act as human shields or martyrs when it's just people wanting to stay in their homes. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16216 Posts
On December 21 2023 06:43 KwarK wrote: Every time in the past that Palestinians have fled from their land to avoid violence they’ve not been subsequently allowed back. We’re seeing that now with Israel declaring the need for a DMZ and deciding that it should be on the far side of the border and built by clearing the land. It’s not reasonable to expect them to leave when leaving can only be seen as ceding any claim to their land. On December 21 2023 08:20 Cricketer12 wrote: Yes, and it's always "temporary leave". Can anyone point to a date on which land was returned to Palestinians? We've got 2 groups of people who both believe the same piece of land was granted to them by God according to ancient holy writings thounsands of years ago. So the situation is unsolvable. This is my rebuttal to my family when they whine at me that I should spend more time in Israel. I'm not playing the role of martyr based merely on a probability something might be true. I suggest any Palestinian employ the same mindset. https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/33-of-israelis-thinking-of-reverse-migration https://gulfnews.com/opinion/op-eds/israeli-folly-and-reverse-migration-1.2109702 Spain, Portugal, adn the USA are the favoured places to land. Staying away from Israel is a smart move. https://www.equaltimes.org/israel-s-far-right-government-goes?lang=en I do not view the current Israeli government as "far right". However, I think Secular Israelis are leaving. secular Israelis fear a significant economic recession inflamed by what they consider a political apocalypse led by ultra-orthodox lawmakers. Foreign investors and companies are cautious about investing in the country, as the national currency has already weakened. For many Israelis, gaining a second passport represents security in the form of an exit option, in what appears to be a reverse Aliyah that could potentially undermine the sense of national belonging at the core of the Jewish state. The warnings have been there for a while. It was time to leave a few years ago. On December 22 2023 15:42 KwarK wrote: But frequently people refusing to leave when the IDF warn them that they plan to "clear" the area is viewed as an attempt to act as human shields or martyrs when it's just people wanting to stay in their homes. Where I grew up there was a train derailment years before I was born. 250,000 Canadians left. It was "meh" and yet the rest of the world was shocked. It was called the "Mississauga Miracle". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_Mississauga_train_derailment It was really a nothing event. However, Mississauga is a city filled with economic migrants so moving isn't some crazy notion. I guess it all depends upon your perspective. | ||
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KwarK
United States41615 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16216 Posts
There is a group of Palestinians and their supporters using the chant "from the river to the sea palestine will be free". This indicates the thinking that Israel has no proper place in the middle east. The people chanting this might be right. They certainly think they are right. On the flip side we have a group of Jews who think that same land is "their land". Again, they could be right. Who knows? Due to the political instability created by such things many people choose to leave. And, as military conflict escalates more people are leaving. Its a smart move to leave. However, in 1979, there were a few Mississauga residents who risked their lives staying in their homes.(see my previous post) Whatever their reasons which could possibly include that their grandparents own the land ... Dumb move on their part. They could have died. | ||
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KwarK
United States41615 Posts
I don’t need to assert that I intimately understand the mind of every Palestinian to make this argument. The Palestinians think that they should live in Palestine because it’s Palestine and they’re the Palestinians. It’s not because of some ancient book. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16216 Posts
On December 22 2023 16:28 KwarK wrote: It’s not hard. Palestinian is to Palestine as French is to France. You don’t need to introduce thousand year old books, they think it’s their country because it’s their country. The Spaniards live in Spain. The Swedes live in Sweden. The Palestinians live in Palestine. I don’t need to assert that I intimately understand the mind of every Palestinian to make this argument. The Palestinians think that they should live in Palestine because it’s Palestine and they’re the Palestinians. And sometimes events lead to a pragmatic solution. Some Palestinians have already left. Due to increasing hostilities I think it becomes an increasingly smarter option for Palestinians and Jews to leave. The Canadian government has taken steps to offer Palestinians a way out. I think this is a good move by Canada.(see my previous posts on this subject). Furthermore, leaving the group living in that area in that same place will not solve the problem. The problems will continue because we have 2 groups of people who think they have a right to the same land. So the problems will continue for the foreseeable future. The problems have been going on a very long time. Also, the population in the area is skyrocketing. So this makes living where your grandparents live increasingly impractical. For practical reasons it is time to move. North America is filled with people who left their country of birth for practical reasons. Canada has opened the door... | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria3416 Posts
On December 22 2023 14:55 Cerebrate1 wrote: Most people care more about their families lives than being pawns in a land war. Syrians fleeing the Syrian Civil War have little hope of returning, but they do so in droves anyways. So too in most refugee situations. I understand not forcing them to leave, but not giving them the option to leave is like deciding for them that it would be better that they risk becoming martyrs for the cause. Not that many countries are throwing the doors open for them anyways. But it seems to me that it would be calous for anyone here to oppose countries providing safe haven for refugees who want it. "Callous" would be the right word for people who are pleading for Palestinians to flee while at the same time supporting Israel. Do you perhaps see the problem a bit better now? | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria3416 Posts
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