EPTCoronavirus and You - Page 629
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Any and all updates regarding the COVID-19 will need a source provided. Please do your part in helping us to keep this thread maintainable and under control. It is YOUR responsibility to fully read through the sources that you link, and you MUST provide a brief summary explaining what the source is about. Do not expect other people to do the work for you. Conspiracy theories and fear mongering will absolutely not be tolerated in this thread. Expect harsh mod actions if you try to incite fear needlessly. This is not a politics thread! You are allowed to post information regarding politics if it's related to the coronavirus, but do NOT discuss politics in here. Added a disclaimer on page 662. Many need to post better. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4358 Posts
On August 26 2022 12:38 gobbledydook wrote: There's always a balance to be had right. It is clearly healthier to not eat fast food, so we should institute a ban on it, then less people will die of obesity related diseases. Somehow there is no credible push for banning fast food. All we do is try to educate people to eat healthier and force fast food stores to display information about the calories. Food is a problem but the bigger problem is too many people have sedentary jobs staring at a screen all day.Now, even after the mass hysteria is over many of them are still demanding to work from home.Many people aren’t even leaving their homes for days at a time, if they get groceries delivered maybe they’re not leaving for weeks.Walking to the refrigerator is their workout for the day. That’s the bigger problem than food. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14048 Posts
On August 29 2022 16:57 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Food is a problem but the bigger problem is too many people have sedentary jobs staring at a screen all day.Now, even after the mass hysteria is over many of them are still demanding to work from home.Many people aren’t even leaving their homes for days at a time, if they get groceries delivered maybe they’re not leaving for weeks.Walking to the refrigerator is their workout for the day. That’s the bigger problem than food. Where would they go and what would they do otherwise? Our cities have been built for cars to live in instead of people. We have people resistant to the most basic public transportation systems let alone getting any sort of housing density that is absolutely needed. Meanwhile we work more hours than any other developed country with few to no labor rights compared to heather nations. Office jobs exist just fine in other countries it's not the problem by any means. Wfh is a vast improvement for working conditions when you're not stuck communing for hours a week and can prepare food in your house instead of garbage in the office. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15725 Posts
On August 29 2022 16:57 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Food is a problem but the bigger problem is too many people have sedentary jobs staring at a screen all day.Now, even after the mass hysteria is over many of them are still demanding to work from home.Many people aren’t even leaving their homes for days at a time, if they get groceries delivered maybe they’re not leaving for weeks.Walking to the refrigerator is their workout for the day. That’s the bigger problem than food. I'm able to exercise and eat healthy more easily working from home since I don't lose time commuting and various other inefficiencies that come from being in an office. Office work is a cancer on society. | ||
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Fleetfeet
Canada2604 Posts
On August 29 2022 16:57 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Food is a problem but the bigger problem is too many people have sedentary jobs staring at a screen all day.Now, even after the mass hysteria is over many of them are still demanding to work from home.Many people aren’t even leaving their homes for days at a time, if they get groceries delivered maybe they’re not leaving for weeks.Walking to the refrigerator is their workout for the day. That’s the bigger problem than food. Translated, this feels like "We can't trust your average person to properly take care of themselves" I don't feel like forcing/encouraging people into the stress of transit and office work is the solution to that problem. In fact, I would strongly speculate it's part of the goddamn problem. | ||
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BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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aseq
Netherlands3987 Posts
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Fleetfeet
Canada2604 Posts
On August 30 2022 04:11 BlackJack wrote: I think it's obviously true that many people can't properly take care of themselves. In fact if there is any one thing that everyone in this thread can agree on it's that many people can't make the correct decisions for their health. The debate is how far we should go to get people to make the correct decisions. Not "can't make the correct decisions...", but won't make the correct decisions. I'm suggesting that it's a symptom of a generally poor understanding of happiness and health in general, and Nettles' proposed solution of forcing people to go to the office only addresses symptoms of excercise and social activity poorly, instead of recognizing those as important elements of someone's health and noting that work-from-home allows those issues to be dealt with BETTER than an office environment. | ||
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BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
Either way, Nettles didn't propose forcing people into the office. He was merely opining that he thinks it's less healthy when people don't don't have to leave their house and go into the office. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26078 Posts
It’s only relatively recently that as an individual not getting family or friends to shop for you, that one can conceivably never leave the house and get everything delivered. It’s convenience and innovation when you’re a consumer, encouraging a sedentary lifestyle and social isolation when you’re a prospective worker. It’s very dependent on individuals, work environments and a multitude of other factors like shift patterns, distance of commute etc. Leave it to individuals to find out what works for them. As a quite extroverted fellow, who likes my home city, doesn’t have a long commute and has already met many of my new prospective colleagues, and am doing a job I’m a novice in, you can bet your arse I’m going the office. It’s a sweet office too, plus I generally dislike my home environment being my work one, find it hard to relax. Others may be the complete opposite to me and nothing wrong with that. It helps that Belfast commutes are light by other standards, I get travel sickness bloody badly so spending an hour+ commuting each direction will tire me out more than a lot of people. And yes for many work is very much a social crutch, but I’d put that down to work swallowing so much of our collective time, focus and energy. I don’t think it’s really a good argument from enforcing office work, especially for those it doesn’t especially suit. In the same way I think chatting to a cashier for a lonely person is a side benefit of not automating the process, but it’s not a particularly good argument in keeping a job in the cycle that is so mundane and sedentary for the person doing it. Work shouldn’t be considered the solution for problems of isolation and stress that its import in our structured causes in the first place. | ||
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Fleetfeet
Canada2604 Posts
@BlackJack Being social and taking care of yourself are learned skills. People haven't learned those skills. Suggesting that I'm speculating people will just magically develop these skills overnight if only they didn't have that -darn- 45 minute commute is dishonest, and WombaT read it correctly in it alluding to overall systemic change breaking people from a sleep - work - consume - repeat cycle that is overall proving unhealthy. Similarly, you could read well enough that I know Nettles hasn't outright proposed a ban on work-from-home, I was just following their passing whining to its logical end and trying to point out that a crutch doesn't address the wound. If you read a little deeper than surface level, I'm sure we'll meet some kind of understanding of each other's position. | ||
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
where's the freedom in that? | ||
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GoTuNk!
Chile4591 Posts
On August 30 2022 07:20 aseq wrote: But that's more of a general debate than a Covid problem. I'd rather not pay towards the same healthcare with probably way over 50% of the people here. There are tons of reasons, not only antivaxers, but also smokers, fat people, people with allergies, people who go skiing and break stuff, people who drive too fast, etc. Wait till you find out perverse incentives, on various degrees, apply to all government programs | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
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Simberto
Germany11635 Posts
On August 31 2022 02:48 Artisreal wrote: why can an employer dictate me to come to work if I can do the same work at home, or even more work at home? where's the freedom in that? Well, they pay you. And they don't only pay you to do your work, they pay you to do the work in the way they want it done. Your choice, obviously, is to choose an employer which allows you to do that same work from home. And if enough people do that, the employers which don't allow it will notice that they have a greatly reduce pool to hire from, and may change their ways. | ||
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BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
On August 31 2022 02:44 Fleetfeet wrote: ^ I started typing something similar several times, and decided it was generally a further derailment from the thread. Thank you for for clarifying the position better than I could, though! @BlackJack Being social and taking care of yourself are learned skills. People haven't learned those skills. Suggesting that I'm speculating people will just magically develop these skills overnight if only they didn't have that -darn- 45 minute commute is dishonest, and WombaT read it correctly in it alluding to overall systemic change breaking people from a sleep - work - consume - repeat cycle that is overall proving unhealthy. Similarly, you could read well enough that I know Nettles hasn't outright proposed a ban on work-from-home, I was just following their passing whining to its logical end and trying to point out that a crutch doesn't address the wound. If you read a little deeper than surface level, I'm sure we'll meet some kind of understanding of each other's position. Nettles thinks WFH will lead to more sedentary and socially isolated lives and you think WFH will be a more healthful alternative than our typical work grind. You've both offered a hypothesis but neither of you have offered any evidence. I think it's fair to say you're both speculating. | ||
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GoTuNk!
Chile4591 Posts
On August 31 2022 04:33 JimmiC wrote: What makes them perverse and why would you not want the government to incentivize positive behavior? Perverse incentives is when you get the benefits and have other people pay the costs. Free rider problem is another name, it can also happen on some private industries. In the healthcare example it's pretty obvious; since everyone pays taxes regardless, there is no economical benefit (i.e paying less) for healthy lifestyle choises. Everyone has to foot the bill for obese people chronic care, for example. Or when you go to college and people who didn't go, pay your tuition and they call it "free college". (happens in latin america) Or when terrorism gets rewarded with land and money to "solve the conflict" (also happens in latin america) Or basically any other government service that someone pays for against their will, without benefiting from it or even actively opposing it. | ||
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