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Added a disclaimer on page 662. Many need to post better. |
On January 15 2022 20:52 RKC wrote:
Find patient zero, find the cure.
Yes, it's called vaccine. You can't be serious with that comment, I don't see how patient 0 can be productive in your hypothesis. Virus replicates itself, so whether it's patient 0, 1 or 2 doesn't really matter. I imagine patient 0 is of interest only to know origin of virus and research around that, but we already have enough research ~2 years into this pandemic about what works and what doesn't against COVID.
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On January 15 2022 10:32 Mohdoo wrote:
The moment I learned there was a virology institute studying corona viruses in Wuhan, I was 100% convinced of lab leak. Chinese science has a well deserved reputation of incompetence and falsifying data.
It's a city the size of New York, they're gonna have an institute of just about anything studying just about anything. The 'omg what are the odds' take on this is based purely on the disconnect between its size and relative obscurity in global culture. If the epicenter of an earthquake is in a city of 10 million guess what, they're gonna have a seismology institute.
That's not to say it isn't a possibility, but you shouldn't be 100% convinced of anything with so little to go on.
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On January 15 2022 22:21 justanothertownie wrote:How?
I assumed it was a joke reference to the ridiculous mission in world war Z.
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Understanding the origins of a virus is quite useful to stop current and future outbreaks (especially if it's some mutation of a known strain).
Good that someone caught the WWZ reference! Though scientifically dodgy, still a fun watch...
Sorry, the hunt for patient zero was maybe a lazy layman attempt to drive home the point. Still, research on the origins arguably proved quite useful during the 2003-2004 SARS outbreak (which ironically, led to some infections in lab researchers along the way, and consequently, adds some credence to the COVID lab leak theory).
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
So this didn't come up yet in this thread - apparently some German police used the corvid tracking app to find witnesses for a case entirely unrelated to tracking infections:
German police used a contact tracing app to track down witnesses in a local crime case. The scandal has data protection advocates up in arms, with politicians warning that abuse of the app could undermine public trust.
Authorities in Germany faced increasing criticism on Tuesday over their misuse of a COVID contact tracing app to investigate a case.
The case exemplifies concerns voiced by data protection experts. It also plays into the hands of protest groups that staunchly oppose all pandemic curbs and voice skepticism over COVID vaccinations, politicians have warned.
What happened?
The incident concerns authorities in the city of Mainz. At the end of November, a man fell to his death after leaving a restaurant in the city, prompting police to open a case.
While trying to track down witnesses, police and prosecutors managed to successfully petition local health authorities to release data from the Luca app, which logs how long people stayed at an establishment.
Authorities then reached out to 21 potential witnesses based on the data they had unlawfully acquired from the app.
Reports on the case, which emerged last week, sparked widespread outrage.
Source
According to this twit they also lied and said they were tracking an infection.
It's heartening to see how quickly and easily government authorities are willing to expand the use of a far-reaching surveillance apparatus beyond its original, promised to be limited in scope, purpose.
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On January 16 2022 05:35 LegalLord wrote:So this didn't come up yet in this thread - apparently some German police used the corvid tracking app to find witnesses for a case entirely unrelated to tracking infections: Show nested quote +German police used a contact tracing app to track down witnesses in a local crime case. The scandal has data protection advocates up in arms, with politicians warning that abuse of the app could undermine public trust.
Authorities in Germany faced increasing criticism on Tuesday over their misuse of a COVID contact tracing app to investigate a case.
The case exemplifies concerns voiced by data protection experts. It also plays into the hands of protest groups that staunchly oppose all pandemic curbs and voice skepticism over COVID vaccinations, politicians have warned.
What happened?
The incident concerns authorities in the city of Mainz. At the end of November, a man fell to his death after leaving a restaurant in the city, prompting police to open a case.
While trying to track down witnesses, police and prosecutors managed to successfully petition local health authorities to release data from the Luca app, which logs how long people stayed at an establishment.
Authorities then reached out to 21 potential witnesses based on the data they had unlawfully acquired from the app.
Reports on the case, which emerged last week, sparked widespread outrage. SourceAccording to this twit they also lied and said they were tracking an infection. It's heartening to see how quickly and easily government authorities are willing to expand the use of a far-reaching surveillance apparatus beyond its original, promised to be limited in scope, purpose.
Sometimes libertarians are right. They are wrong 99.99999999999999% of the time. But I will bend my knee and admit they were right this time.
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Its bad and basically what people were afraid of yes. Police should not be allowed to do that and it should be treated as any other unlawful investigation.
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On January 16 2022 08:30 Gorsameth wrote:
Its bad and basically what people were afraid of yes. Police should not be allowed to do that and it should be treated as any other unlawful investigation.
It'll be interesting to see what happens with this. Gonna assume nothing.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On January 16 2022 16:18 mierin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2022 08:30 Gorsameth wrote:
Its bad and basically what people were afraid of yes. Police should not be allowed to do that and it should be treated as any other unlawful investigation. It'll be interesting to see what happens with this. Gonna assume nothing.
Doubtless a slap on the wrist for the police officers that did it and a little bit of a public mea culpa, but it's too late to un-contact the witnesses so their ill-gotten info still stands. I've seen nothing to indicate that they're willing to discard said evidence on a "fruit of the poisonous tree" type legality, and the article suggests they're merely going to "ensure the data is not misused further" which might as well be saying they'll do nothing.
I see it as primarily a "raptors testing the fence" moment that didn't work out as well as planned. The allure of taking advantage of a moment (worst part of the pandemic) when people are willing to support increasingly aggressive surveillance measures like this are too juicy to pass up for those that want to use said measures for other purposes. Next time "the app" is misused (a definite when-not-if), the excuse will be better refined and designed to be more palatable to the public.
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djokovic is officially being deported now after his appeal was rejected.
expected result and finally this saga comes to a close
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On January 16 2022 17:18 evilfatsh1t wrote:
djokovic is officially being deported now after his appeal was rejected.
expected result and finally this saga comes to a close
Well, that was dumb.
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On January 16 2022 17:18 evilfatsh1t wrote:
djokovic is officially being deported now after his appeal was rejected.
expected result and finally this saga comes to a close
Finally. Such a farse, not getting vaccinated is pure stupidity, but facing such problems upon arrival, Djoko should never have been on the plane nor the lineup for the tournament in the first place. Athletes on that level have huge support teams to take care of practicalities, and they failed as well.
--------
My moderna booster shot ended up being the most bothersome yet; the arm is still sore after 48 hours, and I got dead tired a few hours after the shot. At least there is some reaction....
I have not seen conclusive research about the benefit of boosters outside of risk groups yet, and I have to admit that the unknowns about the long-term effects the mRNA vaccines can have on the immune system bother me a bit. Maybe getting a mild infection would have been better??
Crossing my fingers I did it "right", I have certainly followed government recommendations, and my COVID passport is good to go.
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Djokovic lied in his visa application. He most likely lied in his forms when traveling to Spain as well. He said he took a PCR test after a negative LFT "out of abundance of caution" but didn't bother to self-isolate and attended a crowded event the next day. Finally, it looks like he may have faked his tests as well. The guy was asking for this to happen.
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On January 16 2022 18:11 Slydie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2022 17:18 evilfatsh1t wrote:
djokovic is officially being deported now after his appeal was rejected.
expected result and finally this saga comes to a close Finally. Such a farse, not getting vaccinated is pure stupidity, but facing such problems upon arrival, Djoko should never have been on the plane nor the lineup for the tournament in the first place. Athletes on that level have huge support teams to take care of practicalities, and they failed as well. -------- My moderna booster shot ended up being the most bothersome yet; the arm is still sore after 48 hours, and I got dead tired a few hours after the shot. At least there is some reaction.... I have not seen conclusive research about the benefit of boosters outside of risk groups yet, and I have to admit that the unknowns about the long-term effects the mRNA vaccines can have on the immune system bother me a bit. Maybe getting a mild infection would have been better?? Crossing my fingers I did it "right", I have certainly followed government recommendations, and my COVID passport is good to go.
Ye, I think we can trust the scientific community that seems to have been trusting those vaccines all the way. It seems impossible to assess the risk of the mRNA technology without a seriois scientific background in biology, so I feel best is to just trust the people who designed, reviewed and tested it.
Still a fair bit of delta going around in France. I hope that when it fades out in favour of omicron, they stop getting obsessed with infection rates abd concentrate on ICU beds which frankly is all that matters at that point.
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On January 16 2022 19:15 maybenexttime wrote:
Djokovic lied in his visa application. He most likely lied in his forms when traveling to Spain as well. He said he took a PCR test after a negative LFT "out of abundance of caution" but didn't bother to self-isolate and attended a crowded event the next day. Finally, it looks like he may have faked his tests as well. The guy was asking for this to happen.
i havent seen any articles supporting the claim that he faked his tests, but i was of the opinion that this was the far likelier truth than him actually having tested positive. i dont actually think he was positive and decided to circumvent isolation laws in multiple countries, just that he thought our security would be a joke and he could produce test results at his convenience to participate in the open.
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On January 16 2022 18:11 Slydie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2022 17:18 evilfatsh1t wrote:
djokovic is officially being deported now after his appeal was rejected.
expected result and finally this saga comes to a close Finally. Such a farse, not getting vaccinated is pure stupidity, but facing such problems upon arrival, Djoko should never have been on the plane nor the lineup for the tournament in the first place. Athletes on that level have huge support teams to take care of practicalities, and they failed as well. -------- My moderna booster shot ended up being the most bothersome yet; the arm is still sore after 48 hours, and I got dead tired a few hours after the shot. At least there is some reaction.... I have not seen conclusive research about the benefit of boosters outside of risk groups yet, and I have to admit that the unknowns about the long-term effects the mRNA vaccines can have on the immune system bother me a bit. Maybe getting a mild infection would have been better?? Crossing my fingers I did it "right", I have certainly followed government recommendations, and my COVID passport is good to go.
Well, mRNA has been in research for decades as far as I know, so coming up with a COVID vaccine wasn't that random. Having said that, I'm not going to take a booster anytime soon for several reasons:
- some local official part of WHO said an improved mRNA vaccine could be out by the end of March, e.g. random article: https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/omicron-variant-are-variant-specific-covid-vaccine-booster-rcna11598
- a full year hasn't passed since my 2nd dose yet, so all 3rd-4th dose discussions seem more panic than research based in my opinion
- it seems unfair to mandate 3rd/4th/etc dose when some people are unwilling to take even 1st
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On January 16 2022 19:58 SC-Shield wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2022 18:11 Slydie wrote:On January 16 2022 17:18 evilfatsh1t wrote:
djokovic is officially being deported now after his appeal was rejected.
expected result and finally this saga comes to a close Finally. Such a farse, not getting vaccinated is pure stupidity, but facing such problems upon arrival, Djoko should never have been on the plane nor the lineup for the tournament in the first place. Athletes on that level have huge support teams to take care of practicalities, and they failed as well. -------- My moderna booster shot ended up being the most bothersome yet; the arm is still sore after 48 hours, and I got dead tired a few hours after the shot. At least there is some reaction.... I have not seen conclusive research about the benefit of boosters outside of risk groups yet, and I have to admit that the unknowns about the long-term effects the mRNA vaccines can have on the immune system bother me a bit. Maybe getting a mild infection would have been better?? Crossing my fingers I did it "right", I have certainly followed government recommendations, and my COVID passport is good to go. Well, mRNA has been in research for decades as far as I know, so coming up with a COVID vaccine wasn't that random. Having said that, I'm not going to take a booster anytime soon for several reasons: - some local official part of WHO said an improved mRNA vaccine could be out by the end of March, e.g. random article: https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/omicron-variant-are-variant-specific-covid-vaccine-booster-rcna11598- a full year hasn't passed since my 2nd dose yet, so all 3rd-4th dose discussions seem more panic than research based in my opinion - it seems unfair to mandate 3rd/4th/etc dose when some people are unwilling to take even 1st
I don't buy the March argument. That an Omnicron specific vaccine will not mean you will get your hands on one, as they have said it might not even enter vaccine programs if they are not considered necessary. The wave is peaking right now, as it also did a year ago with the British Beta variant (remember that?) March will almost certainly be too late.
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Hm some of my friends are thinking twice about boosters precisely because they're willing to hold out for something better and worry that too many shots with the current vaccines may bar or delay them from taking newer and better jabs. Is there any scientific basis for such concern?
Is Djokovic also banned from Australia for 3 years? If the court papers really show how he lied or misled the authorities, then he should've really agreed to be deported in the first place instead of letting the authorities and public dig deeper. Now he may even risk being barred from other countries and tournaments. What a fiasco...
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On January 16 2022 20:28 RKC wrote:
Hm some of my friends are thinking twice about boosters precisely because they're willing to hold out for something better and worry that too many shots with the current vaccines may bar or delay them from taking newer and better jabs. Is there any scientific basis for such concern?
Is Djokovic also banned from Australia for 3 years? If the court papers really show how he lied or misled the authorities, then he should've really agreed to be deported in the first place instead of letting the authorities and public dig deeper. Now he may even risk being barred from other countries and tournaments. What a fiasco...
Well, as you said, I'm also worried about "too many shots" considering Israel is trying to lead the way with 4th dose. Where does all of this end? Another point is possible side effects from too many doses (needs research, I don't claim anything for certain) and the fact that current vaccines are much less effective compared to what they used to be against Wuhan/initial COVID. For instance, Pfizer's vaccine was 94-95% after 2 doses, remember that time? Currently, it's said to be 40% effective on 2 doses and about 70-80% if you get a booster and you compare that to Omicron. Finally, I'd consider 3rd dose if we get anything worse than Omicron, which is said to be milder for vaccinated individuals at least, or worse than Delta.
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On January 16 2022 20:28 RKC wrote:
Is Djokovic also banned from Australia for 3 years? If the court papers really show how he lied or misled the authorities, then he should've really agreed to be deported in the first place instead of letting the authorities and public dig deeper. Now he may even risk being barred from other countries and tournaments. What a fiasco...
Basically, yes, if the immigration minister directly intervenes that carries an automatic three year ban. However the minister has a lot of discretion and could intervene again to let him back in. I could see that happening if he got jabbed and there was a public climbdown, but probably not otherwise.
https://theconversation.com/novak-djokovics-visa-cancelled-in-the-public-interest-with-possible-3-year-ban-from-australia-174968
The immigration minister has broad discretionary powers under section 133C (3) of the Migration Act to cancel visas on public interest grounds, including on the grounds of health, safety or good order.
Following Hawke’s decision, the law dictates that Djokovic will not be able to be granted another visa for three years, except in certain circumstances. These include compelling circumstances that affect the interests of Australia or compassionate or compelling circumstances affecting the interests of an Australian citizen, permanent resident or eligible New Zealand citizen.
Hawke did not address whether Djokovic was likely to be able to obtain a visa before the end of the three-year period.
It's hard to overstate how disastrous this is for Djokovic. Most talk so far has been about the immediate saga and the repuational damage, which is bad enough, but from the perspective of the history books, he was also extremely likely to get a grand slam somewhere in the next three years and that's off the cards now. He'll still get the slam record so I'm sure he'll survive, but one of his biggest remaining professional goals is in tatters as a result of this.
Honestly if I was him, I would have considered leaving on my own a couple days ago to avoid the three-year ban.
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EPT
