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On January 08 2022 08:21 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2022 06:12 Lmui wrote:On January 08 2022 01:18 JimmiC wrote:On January 07 2022 16:56 Lmui wrote:
Well, covid has come to my family, I guess it was time. I'm exposed, not yet symptomatic, but there's a high chance I will be. Fully vaccinated and 6 days from being eligible for my booster, which is kinda rough, but that's life.
My neighbourhood as a whole is in rough shape. Pretty much 100% of 12+ has first dose, and 98% of 12+ are fully vaccinated. In the last week of testing, 50% of tests in my neighbourhood are positive.
The gov't is encouraging everyone who is fully vaccinated, and not in a high risk category to just stay home and rest, unless symptoms are severe so it's about as bad as it gets I think, hopefully the wave peaks soon. Good luck, I'm confident you will be fine. If you do get it let us know how it goes. I had OG covid before vaccination (wife teacher brought home) and it kicked my ass far more than hers. And then each vaccination and booster has been the same. For me it was nothing in the lungs but for a full week I was awful, so tired I couldn't do anything, I was absolutely freezing but sweating buckets. I had the heat in the room over 30 and I was still chilled to the bone. There was days on either side of that week where I also felt bad and it was maybe a month total before I felt good. With each Vax and now my booster was really strange, the next day I felt like I had covid maybe 80% as bad, but it lasted only 24 hours and then I was fine. I'm curious is you will get a weaker version or if maybe it will suck but for a short period of time! Good luck either way, I hope you get to be the asymptomatic kind!  Thank Jimmi I got some good news today. In BC it's pretty impossible to get a test unless you're truly desperate and sick (3+ hour lineup for test/rapid test). My sister who was staying with us flew home the day after to Ontario and the day after (Jan. 6) had all classic flu symptoms (body ache, fever, etc), so our assumption was covid. She managed to secure a rapid test today, and both her and BF (both with similar symptoms) are negative. I know they're not 100%, and some have lower efficacy at testing for Omicron, but there's still hope that I dodged the bullet and don't have covid yet. I'm sure I'll be fine given my age (late 20s), but definitely nice to have some hope. Who decides who is sick enough to get to queue up for the tests? Or do you mean it's only for the truly desperate/sick that it's worth the hassle to get out of bed and lineup for several hours for a test?
Our testing capacity is far past overwhelmed, given that over 1/4 of people still getting tested are positive, up past 50% in some areas. There's some criteria that the workers at test sites use to determine if you get a rapid test or PCR test, generally based on the risk to the individual if they are infected.
Gov't has said that if you're fully vaccinated, and have symptoms that you believe can be managed at home, do not get tested, just isolate and recuperate at home. Not feasible for all people, but it tries to keep testing reserved for those who must get tested for one reason or another.
It's truly for the desperate who must get a test.
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On January 08 2022 08:47 Lmui wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2022 08:21 BlackJack wrote:On January 08 2022 06:12 Lmui wrote:On January 08 2022 01:18 JimmiC wrote:On January 07 2022 16:56 Lmui wrote:
Well, covid has come to my family, I guess it was time. I'm exposed, not yet symptomatic, but there's a high chance I will be. Fully vaccinated and 6 days from being eligible for my booster, which is kinda rough, but that's life.
My neighbourhood as a whole is in rough shape. Pretty much 100% of 12+ has first dose, and 98% of 12+ are fully vaccinated. In the last week of testing, 50% of tests in my neighbourhood are positive.
The gov't is encouraging everyone who is fully vaccinated, and not in a high risk category to just stay home and rest, unless symptoms are severe so it's about as bad as it gets I think, hopefully the wave peaks soon. Good luck, I'm confident you will be fine. If you do get it let us know how it goes. I had OG covid before vaccination (wife teacher brought home) and it kicked my ass far more than hers. And then each vaccination and booster has been the same. For me it was nothing in the lungs but for a full week I was awful, so tired I couldn't do anything, I was absolutely freezing but sweating buckets. I had the heat in the room over 30 and I was still chilled to the bone. There was days on either side of that week where I also felt bad and it was maybe a month total before I felt good. With each Vax and now my booster was really strange, the next day I felt like I had covid maybe 80% as bad, but it lasted only 24 hours and then I was fine. I'm curious is you will get a weaker version or if maybe it will suck but for a short period of time! Good luck either way, I hope you get to be the asymptomatic kind! Thank Jimmi I got some good news today. In BC it's pretty impossible to get a test unless you're truly desperate and sick (3+ hour lineup for test/rapid test). My sister who was staying with us flew home the day after to Ontario and the day after (Jan. 6) had all classic flu symptoms (body ache, fever, etc), so our assumption was covid. She managed to secure a rapid test today, and both her and BF (both with similar symptoms) are negative. I know they're not 100%, and some have lower efficacy at testing for Omicron, but there's still hope that I dodged the bullet and don't have covid yet. I'm sure I'll be fine given my age (late 20s), but definitely nice to have some hope. Who decides who is sick enough to get to queue up for the tests? Or do you mean it's only for the truly desperate/sick that it's worth the hassle to get out of bed and lineup for several hours for a test? Our testing capacity is far past overwhelmed, given that over 1/4 of people still getting tested are positive, up past 50% in some areas. There's some criteria that the workers at test sites use to determine if you get a rapid test or PCR test, generally based on the risk to the individual if they are infected. Gov't has said that if you're fully vaccinated, and have symptoms that you believe can be managed at home, do not get tested, just isolate and recuperate at home. Not feasible for all people, but it tries to keep testing reserved for those who must get tested for one reason or another. It's truly for the desperate who must get a test.
I think I have done 8 tests now, but none of them because of symptoms or even suspicion.
At this point, I am having serious doubts about the whole mass testing strategy. How many healthy, asymptomatic people without close contacts do you need to test to pick up a single case?
We rarely needed to know exactly which germ made you cough before. Omnicron is significantly more contagious and less dangerous, and I have seen studies suggesting that you can infect others only hours after being infected yourself. Do we really need to confirm every case, and does it even matter?
My feeling is that now mass testing is a failing attempt at controlling something which can't be controlled. Along with vaccines, Omnicron could be the way to true, long term herd immunity and normal life.
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Omicron is the hand held you needed to accept covid and to move on.
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So Djokovic's exemption is based on his recent COVID infection on 16 December 2021. Is there a scientific reason why reinfection is not possible within a short period of time? Or does infection build up short-term immunity? Anyway, science aside, seems a pretty iffy policy to grant exemptions based on infection history.
As for asymptomatic people, I'm wondering whether they would tend to have the virus in their bodies dormant or low levels, that the occasional flare may trigger positive result during testing. Meaning to say, maybe there are people out there who are immune and safe from the virus and also unlikely to infect others (and there's really no point testing and counting them in any meaningful statistics).
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On January 08 2022 16:54 RKC wrote:
So Djokovic's exemption is based on his recent COVID infection on 16 December 2021. Is there a scientific reason why reinfection is not possible within a short period of time? Or does infection build up short-term immunity? Anyway, science aside, seems a pretty iffy policy to grant exemptions based on infection history.
Well, it is quite well recorded in history, that if you "survived" a disease, you are quite safe after that!
And even with Covid researchers came to that conclusion. Even better in combination with a vaccine! Maybe you heard about this study:
> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-04005-0?s=03
The "best thing that can happen to you" is basically be vaccinated and get Covid! Lots of antibodies and even if you are reinfected you should be quite safe and have only mild/no symptoms.
That's actually something I don't understand: Why are people that had Covid treated so badly? As if it doesn't mean anything? "Oh, you had Covid? Nice... now get in line for your booster vaccination!" That is not how we get this thing endemic!
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In the very small sample size of my expanded social circles, I know 2 people who caught COVID twice within a short period of time, likely Delta followed by Omnicron. I don't think they got very sick the second time, but they did have some light symptoms.
Unfortunately, neither previous infection nor vaccines give a 100% protection, but a combination and maybe double infection might come close.
We are all different, so I think we will see every possible variation of infection, illness and immunity.
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On January 08 2022 16:54 RKC wrote:
So Djokovic's exemption is based on his recent COVID infection on 16 December 2021. Is there a scientific reason why reinfection is not possible within a short period of time? Or does infection build up short-term immunity? Anyway, science aside, seems a pretty iffy policy to grant exemptions based on infection history.
As for asymptomatic people, I'm wondering whether they would tend to have the virus in their bodies dormant or low levels, that the occasional flare may trigger positive result during testing. Meaning to say, maybe there are people out there who are immune and safe from the virus and also unlikely to infect others (and there's really no point testing and counting them in any meaningful statistics).
If Novak was infected with COVID on 12/16/21 it's fairly safe to say that his protection against COVID infection is significantly better than a typical double-vaxxed person that would be permitted to play. (I assume 2 shots is all that is required). There's evidence that 2-dose series offers almost no protection against being infected with Omicron, for example this preprint study from Ontario that showed 2 doses offered no protection and a booster offered only 37% protection. There were similar results in a Danish study that showed negative vaccine efficacy in double-vaxxed people.
So if the goal is to prevent transmission of COVID then Novak is probably one of the safest players to have in the tournament. But if the goal is to enforce a "we got our shots so he should have to get his too" doctrine of fairness then he should obviously be banned.
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No doubt infection plus vaccination provides good protection. But it's probably too soon after the infection for Djokovic to take the jab now (if he wanted to) - which is perhaps the rationale behind the exemption? To not punish those who couldn't take the jab due to infection. But this only makes sense in the early days of the vaccination rollout. Djokovic delayed taking the jab for many months. Allowing his entry on this 'technicality' makes a mockery of the exemption - a person refusing to be vaccinated gets a vaccine exemption simply because he got infected shortly before travelling.
Of course, it could be that Australian policy actually allows anyone previously infected with COVID to enter the country (regardless of vaccination). Anyone knows?
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On January 08 2022 20:12 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2022 16:54 RKC wrote:
So Djokovic's exemption is based on his recent COVID infection on 16 December 2021. Is there a scientific reason why reinfection is not possible within a short period of time? Or does infection build up short-term immunity? Anyway, science aside, seems a pretty iffy policy to grant exemptions based on infection history.
As for asymptomatic people, I'm wondering whether they would tend to have the virus in their bodies dormant or low levels, that the occasional flare may trigger positive result during testing. Meaning to say, maybe there are people out there who are immune and safe from the virus and also unlikely to infect others (and there's really no point testing and counting them in any meaningful statistics). If Novak was infected with COVID on 12/16/21 it's fairly safe to say that his protection against COVID infection is significantly better than a typical double-vaxxed person that would be permitted to play. (I assume 2 shots is all that is required). There's evidence that 2-dose series offers almost no protection against being infected with Omicron, for example this preprint study from Ontario that showed 2 doses offered no protection and a booster offered only 37% protection. There were similar results in a Danish study that showed negative vaccine efficacy in double-vaxxed people. So if the goal is to prevent transmission of COVID then Novak is probably one of the safest players to have in the tournament. But if the goal is to enforce a "we got our shots so he should have to get his too" doctrine of fairness then he should obviously be banned. Or they simply don't believe that he conveniently got Covid in a recent enough time window where he shouldn't now get vaccinated and he can't prove he is telling the truth.
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On January 08 2022 20:36 RKC wrote:
No doubt infection plus vaccination provides good protection. But it's probably too soon after the infection for Djokovic to take the jab now (if he wanted to) - which is perhaps the rationale behind the exemption? To not punish those who couldn't take the jab due to infection. But this only makes sense in the early days of the vaccination rollout. Djokovic delayed taking the jab for many months. Allowing his entry on this 'technicality' makes a mockery of the exemption - a person refusing to be vaccinated gets a vaccine exemption simply because he got infected shortly before travelling.
Of course, it could be that Australian policy actually allows anyone previously infected with COVID to enter the country (regardless of vaccination). Anyone knows?
we dont. this is why he is detained. tennis australia allowed for this to be a condition for exemption but immigration law says otherwise
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On January 08 2022 16:28 Slydie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2022 08:47 Lmui wrote:On January 08 2022 08:21 BlackJack wrote:On January 08 2022 06:12 Lmui wrote:On January 08 2022 01:18 JimmiC wrote:On January 07 2022 16:56 Lmui wrote:
Well, covid has come to my family, I guess it was time. I'm exposed, not yet symptomatic, but there's a high chance I will be. Fully vaccinated and 6 days from being eligible for my booster, which is kinda rough, but that's life.
My neighbourhood as a whole is in rough shape. Pretty much 100% of 12+ has first dose, and 98% of 12+ are fully vaccinated. In the last week of testing, 50% of tests in my neighbourhood are positive.
The gov't is encouraging everyone who is fully vaccinated, and not in a high risk category to just stay home and rest, unless symptoms are severe so it's about as bad as it gets I think, hopefully the wave peaks soon. Good luck, I'm confident you will be fine. If you do get it let us know how it goes. I had OG covid before vaccination (wife teacher brought home) and it kicked my ass far more than hers. And then each vaccination and booster has been the same. For me it was nothing in the lungs but for a full week I was awful, so tired I couldn't do anything, I was absolutely freezing but sweating buckets. I had the heat in the room over 30 and I was still chilled to the bone. There was days on either side of that week where I also felt bad and it was maybe a month total before I felt good. With each Vax and now my booster was really strange, the next day I felt like I had covid maybe 80% as bad, but it lasted only 24 hours and then I was fine. I'm curious is you will get a weaker version or if maybe it will suck but for a short period of time! Good luck either way, I hope you get to be the asymptomatic kind! Thank Jimmi I got some good news today. In BC it's pretty impossible to get a test unless you're truly desperate and sick (3+ hour lineup for test/rapid test). My sister who was staying with us flew home the day after to Ontario and the day after (Jan. 6) had all classic flu symptoms (body ache, fever, etc), so our assumption was covid. She managed to secure a rapid test today, and both her and BF (both with similar symptoms) are negative. I know they're not 100%, and some have lower efficacy at testing for Omicron, but there's still hope that I dodged the bullet and don't have covid yet. I'm sure I'll be fine given my age (late 20s), but definitely nice to have some hope. Who decides who is sick enough to get to queue up for the tests? Or do you mean it's only for the truly desperate/sick that it's worth the hassle to get out of bed and lineup for several hours for a test? Our testing capacity is far past overwhelmed, given that over 1/4 of people still getting tested are positive, up past 50% in some areas. There's some criteria that the workers at test sites use to determine if you get a rapid test or PCR test, generally based on the risk to the individual if they are infected. Gov't has said that if you're fully vaccinated, and have symptoms that you believe can be managed at home, do not get tested, just isolate and recuperate at home. Not feasible for all people, but it tries to keep testing reserved for those who must get tested for one reason or another. It's truly for the desperate who must get a test. I think I have done 8 tests now, but none of them because of symptoms or even suspicion. At this point, I am having serious doubts about the whole mass testing strategy. How many healthy, asymptomatic people without close contacts do you need to test to pick up a single case? We rarely needed to know exactly which germ made you cough before. Omnicron is significantly more contagious and less dangerous, and I have seen studies suggesting that you can infect others only hours after being infected yourself. Do we really need to confirm every case, and does it even matter? My feeling is that now mass testing is a failing attempt at controlling something which can't be controlled. Along with vaccines, Omnicron could be the way to true, long term herd immunity and normal life.
I think it's generally good practice to question the futility of any medical test. If you're sick you should stay at home and isolate the best you can. Maybe have some chicken soup. If you're positive for COVID the recommendation is exactly the same. If nothing changes then there isn't too much value in the test result.
I disagree with Lmui's notion that it's the desperate/very sick that are waiting in these queues to get COVID test. I don't imagine there are many people that are so sick they would crawl out of bed and wait in a queue for 5 hours just to find out if they are indeed actually sick. From personal experience, the vast majority of people coming to our ER for COVID are not very sick. Many are just looking for a test and can't get an appointment at testing centers. It's a huge drain on resources because these patients require a lot of donning and doffing of PPE, a lot of terminal cleans of their rooms, etc. But in general people aren't well educated on what's an appropriate use of the Emergency Room so I don't really blame them.
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On January 08 2022 19:46 Slydie wrote:
In the very small sample size of my expanded social circles, I know 2 people who caught COVID twice within a short period of time, likely Delta followed by Omnicron. I don't think they got very sick the second time, but they did have some light symptoms.
Unfortunately, neither previous infection nor vaccines give a 100% protection, but a combination and maybe double infection might come close.
We are all different, so I think we will see every possible variation of infection, illness and immunity.
Well, science is interesting here for sure. If you're vaccinated or got through some illness, are you 100% immune or does it mean you'll have it much milder the second time? And if both statements are correct but depend on which type of virus or bacteria it is, then specifying them is helpful too.
In terms of actual news, if he really had COVID this December, that usually warrants a green certificate here in Europe. Here it is for 12 months (extended from 6 recently). Does Australia only consider vaccinations?
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Northern Ireland27084 Posts
On January 09 2022 00:22 SC-Shield wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2022 19:46 Slydie wrote:
In the very small sample size of my expanded social circles, I know 2 people who caught COVID twice within a short period of time, likely Delta followed by Omnicron. I don't think they got very sick the second time, but they did have some light symptoms.
Unfortunately, neither previous infection nor vaccines give a 100% protection, but a combination and maybe double infection might come close.
We are all different, so I think we will see every possible variation of infection, illness and immunity. Well, science is interesting here for sure. If you're vaccinated or got through some illness, are you 100% immune or does it mean you'll have it much milder the second time? And if both statements are correct but depend on which type of virus or bacteria it is, then specifying them is helpful too. In terms of actual news, if he really had COVID this December, that usually warrants a green certificate here in Europe. Here it is for 12 months (extended from 6 recently). Does Australia only consider vaccinations?
They only consider vaccinations for visitors, I believe, outside of genuine medical exemptions. I.e it is actively dangerous for an individual to take a vaccine, or they’ve had an allergic reaction, or something in that vein.
It could be a PR move after the outrage, but I’ve heard it stated that merely getting Covid doesn’t count as a medical exemption. Djokovic has no medical reason not to get vaccinated, so he’s not getting in.
Or it could be that it would be sufficient (albeit I’ve heard otherwise) but Djokovic hasn’t been able to actually prove he had Covid in a particular period.
For citizens returning I believe the standards are less strict
This is just from news browsing and hearing a few Aussie politicians speaking, but that’s what I picked up. If I’m wrong on anything those living Down Under and more familiar with restrictions and how they’re implemented can correct me.
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Northern Ireland27084 Posts
Barney Ronay is usually worth a read. Djokovic is a weird one, he’s not a Covid skeptic in general. It’s the kind of pseudo science and cod spirituality that is absolutely harmless outside of well, a pandemic.
Another article, I think it’s a pretty damning indictment of the handling of the whole affair, in a brief timeline form.
www.theguardian.com
One gets the distinct impression of either gross incompetence, or Djokovic knowingly being given the go-ahead to travel so Australian politicians could gain a PR ‘win’ for being seen to be tough.
Aside from fucking giving anti-vaxxers a really publicly visible person to confer martyr status on, which is also silly, on a human level while not agreeing with his stance, it’s hard not to feel Djokovic has been fucked over by people playing games.
Considering how strict Australia is, that Djokovic’s ‘unconfirmed’ non-vaccinated status has been known forever, and this would be a hot potato that’s been known for months, how does this happen?
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Something similar happened here when green passes had been announced. People couldn't accept not being able to go to mall, so first few days had a lot of vaccinations. Currently they're rising again a bit due to Omicron, but we'll see how long that takes.
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On January 09 2022 05:15 SC-Shield wrote:Something similar happened here when green passes had been announced. People couldn't accept not being able to go to mall, so first few days had a lot of vaccinations. Currently they're rising again a bit due to Omicron, but we'll see how long that takes.
Not surprising. Some people pretend asking an antivax dummy to get vaccinated is like asking a Muslim cleric to eat a pig. It really just isn’t. A lot of these people fighting vax only kind of give a shit and mostly can’t stand being told what to do.
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EPT
