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On December 12 2021 13:39 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2021 21:21 BlackJack wrote:On December 10 2021 22:49 NewSunshine wrote:On December 10 2021 19:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 10 2021 15:08 BlackJack wrote:On December 10 2021 12:47 NewSunshine wrote:On December 10 2021 10:34 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 10 2021 10:30 NewSunshine wrote:On December 10 2021 09:34 GoTuNk! wrote:On December 10 2021 06:53 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
[quote]
Awesome! These will be most beneficial for people who already side with the science and medicine, of course, rather than those refusing to even wear masks. Have you considered some young/vaccinated people know they have a higher chance to get covid without mask, but just, *gasps* don't care about mitigating further a minuscule risk? The risk was miniscule enough to kill millions across the world. Nah that doesn't matter at all; didn't you see the *gasp* for effect!? Did I consider that, *gasp*, some people just want to be selfish dickbags? Why yes. Yes I have. Doesn't mean you can't be fucking stupid in addition to. I have to remember sometimes to take some dark comfort from Darwin's learnings. I really doubt either of you have truly isolated yourself from all forms of public entertainment and communal interactions for the last 21 months. Have you seen a movie/show/play, gone out to eat, done any traveling, etc.?? Unless you've truly isolated yourself for the last 21 months all you are really announcing is that you think you get to decide the line between acceptable risk and selfishness. That's not selflessness, that's arrogance. Actually, yes, with the exception of going to work and doing the occasional mandatory errand (e.g., buying groceries), I've been doing that very serious level of isolation. But that's way more extreme than what we were talking about, anyway - that people should at least be willing to wear masks if the situation calls for it, as per medical safety guidelines. If you're actively ignoring medical guidelines, you either don't trust the experts or you don't care about doing your part to minimize risk. Those are the two groups. Same here. I've limited to essential trips to the store, work now that I've landed a new job(which fortunately is remote 2 days a week, and in general is very safe), and very limited gatherings, usually of 5 people or less, and also preceded/followed with some level of complete shut in to be safe. So yeah, I'm a little frustrated when people boast that they know what they're doing when they don't do even the bare minimum, which as you point out, is all we were talking about before the standard became total isolation. In that case I take back what I said. You both talk the talk and walk the walk so you've obviously earned the right to ridicule us selfish assholes that just want to live our lives. My only remaining question is what is the end-game for either of you? COVID isn't going to be eradicated anytime soon so...? Show nested quote +On December 12 2021 07:59 BlackJack wrote:On December 12 2021 02:16 Mohdoo wrote:On December 11 2021 21:21 BlackJack wrote:On December 10 2021 22:49 NewSunshine wrote:On December 10 2021 19:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 10 2021 15:08 BlackJack wrote:On December 10 2021 12:47 NewSunshine wrote:On December 10 2021 10:34 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 10 2021 10:30 NewSunshine wrote:
[quote]
The risk was miniscule enough to kill millions across the world. Nah that doesn't matter at all; didn't you see the *gasp* for effect!? Did I consider that, *gasp*, some people just want to be selfish dickbags? Why yes. Yes I have. Doesn't mean you can't be fucking stupid in addition to. I have to remember sometimes to take some dark comfort from Darwin's learnings. I really doubt either of you have truly isolated yourself from all forms of public entertainment and communal interactions for the last 21 months. Have you seen a movie/show/play, gone out to eat, done any traveling, etc.?? Unless you've truly isolated yourself for the last 21 months all you are really announcing is that you think you get to decide the line between acceptable risk and selfishness. That's not selflessness, that's arrogance. Actually, yes, with the exception of going to work and doing the occasional mandatory errand (e.g., buying groceries), I've been doing that very serious level of isolation. But that's way more extreme than what we were talking about, anyway - that people should at least be willing to wear masks if the situation calls for it, as per medical safety guidelines. If you're actively ignoring medical guidelines, you either don't trust the experts or you don't care about doing your part to minimize risk. Those are the two groups. Same here. I've limited to essential trips to the store, work now that I've landed a new job(which fortunately is remote 2 days a week, and in general is very safe), and very limited gatherings, usually of 5 people or less, and also preceded/followed with some level of complete shut in to be safe. So yeah, I'm a little frustrated when people boast that they know what they're doing when they don't do even the bare minimum, which as you point out, is all we were talking about before the standard became total isolation. In that case I take back what I said. You both talk the talk and walk the walk so you've obviously earned the right to ridicule us selfish assholes that just want to live our lives. My only remaining question is what is the end-game for either of you? COVID isn't going to be eradicated anytime soon so...? It doesn't need to be eradicated. Eradicating a virus is virtually impossible. We just need it to not be causing death or long term effects. Omicron is a sign of hope that we can reach that eventually. I think you are essentially approaching the idea of "just wanting to live your life" incorrectly. In WW2, there was rationing. In many other periods of human existence, we didn't really have a choice what luxuries came and went. It is easy to look back in history and find times when the situations of the time made life worse than the ideal. It feels like you start from the basic premise that you deserve all of the luxuries you have had before. It feels like you view the world as fundamentally providing rather than a result of circumstance. I think this perspective is immature and kind of absent minded. When you can look back at history and see oscillations in quality of life, luxuries, etc, it seems inappropriate for you to get so whiny about a pandemic making life worse. This will likely not be the last time in your life that quality of life goes down. You are not owed "just trying to live my life". Just FYI, the so called "medical experts" here in the US don't advocate for the level of isolation that DarkPlasmaBall and NewSunShine have chosen for themselves or for your ideas that we "shouldn't have tourism." They understand that millions of people support their livelihoods from entertainment, tourism, restaurants, etc. They are capable of looking at more than just COVID deaths/hospitalizations. They also understand how socioeconomic status affects health and how much life expectancy will be lost when you'd rather have these people in the bread line. There's a reason why the medical experts and governments don't adopt your idea of "we shouldn't have tourism." It's not because you care so much more about human life than them, it's because your ideas are really really dumb. Multiple people have already responded to your posts, so I apologize if I'm being a little redundant here. GoTuNk! was specifically referring to people who weren't following medical advice, so it has nothing to do with the fact that I've been quarantining as much as possible (even moreso than what's considered necessary by the medical community). If the scientific consensus is a specific set of suggestions, and I take them even further, I'm not expecting everyone to take them to the extent that I do. I'm expecting everyone to take them to the recommended extent. As far as people "just wanting to live their lives", I have two points to make: 1. I've made necessary changes to my lifestyle to deal with our current reality, but I'm still absolutely enjoying my life. It would have been great to see more people (in person) on a regular basis, but accommodations have led to new hobbies (trying out new online board games with friends, learning D&D for the first time, getting into game development, and other silver linings), so I've been trying new things and making the best out of our situation. 2. The world has changed, and if someone is refusing to get vaccinated or wear a mask (assuming that's the scientific consensus) because they won't even make the bare minimum effort to protect themselves and others, then they need to grow the fuck up. As far as what I'll be doing in the future to deal with the potentially-endemic nature of covid: I'll do what the experts recommend. For example, I get an annual flu shot, and I hope that we can eventually get to a point where an annual covid shot can make our situation reasonably manageable. I don't expect that the medical consensus will be that we ought to wear masks forever. If more people took this seriously in the first place, we wouldn't even be in a mess this extreme.
I think it should be mentioned that in the US pretty much every state has been "open" for many months now. So you certainly have the ability to go to restaurants, bars, sports games, concerts or whatever else you want to do. You choose not to do these things because you want to protect yourself and loved ones. You're also sensible enough to have chosen to get the vaccine because you know it helps prevent against severe COVID and death. I'd also presume that you'd choose to wear a mask regardless of whether or not your area currently has a mask mandate in place. So when it comes to "wanting to live their lives," quite frankly you are living your life the way you want to. All of these things are things that you're doing voluntarily and these are limitations you're setting for yourself, not limitations that are set by the government. You getting an injection you want is not the same as someone being compelled to get an injection they don't want even if the contents of the syringe are the same.
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On December 13 2021 21:44 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2021 13:39 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 11 2021 21:21 BlackJack wrote:On December 10 2021 22:49 NewSunshine wrote:On December 10 2021 19:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 10 2021 15:08 BlackJack wrote:On December 10 2021 12:47 NewSunshine wrote:On December 10 2021 10:34 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 10 2021 10:30 NewSunshine wrote:On December 10 2021 09:34 GoTuNk! wrote:
[quote]
Have you considered some young/vaccinated people know they have a higher chance to get covid without mask, but just, *gasps* don't care about mitigating further a minuscule risk? The risk was miniscule enough to kill millions across the world. Nah that doesn't matter at all; didn't you see the *gasp* for effect!? Did I consider that, *gasp*, some people just want to be selfish dickbags? Why yes. Yes I have. Doesn't mean you can't be fucking stupid in addition to. I have to remember sometimes to take some dark comfort from Darwin's learnings. I really doubt either of you have truly isolated yourself from all forms of public entertainment and communal interactions for the last 21 months. Have you seen a movie/show/play, gone out to eat, done any traveling, etc.?? Unless you've truly isolated yourself for the last 21 months all you are really announcing is that you think you get to decide the line between acceptable risk and selfishness. That's not selflessness, that's arrogance. Actually, yes, with the exception of going to work and doing the occasional mandatory errand (e.g., buying groceries), I've been doing that very serious level of isolation. But that's way more extreme than what we were talking about, anyway - that people should at least be willing to wear masks if the situation calls for it, as per medical safety guidelines. If you're actively ignoring medical guidelines, you either don't trust the experts or you don't care about doing your part to minimize risk. Those are the two groups. Same here. I've limited to essential trips to the store, work now that I've landed a new job(which fortunately is remote 2 days a week, and in general is very safe), and very limited gatherings, usually of 5 people or less, and also preceded/followed with some level of complete shut in to be safe. So yeah, I'm a little frustrated when people boast that they know what they're doing when they don't do even the bare minimum, which as you point out, is all we were talking about before the standard became total isolation. In that case I take back what I said. You both talk the talk and walk the walk so you've obviously earned the right to ridicule us selfish assholes that just want to live our lives. My only remaining question is what is the end-game for either of you? COVID isn't going to be eradicated anytime soon so...? On December 12 2021 07:59 BlackJack wrote:On December 12 2021 02:16 Mohdoo wrote:On December 11 2021 21:21 BlackJack wrote:On December 10 2021 22:49 NewSunshine wrote:On December 10 2021 19:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 10 2021 15:08 BlackJack wrote:On December 10 2021 12:47 NewSunshine wrote:On December 10 2021 10:34 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
[quote]
Nah that doesn't matter at all; didn't you see the *gasp* for effect!? Did I consider that, *gasp*, some people just want to be selfish dickbags? Why yes. Yes I have. Doesn't mean you can't be fucking stupid in addition to. I have to remember sometimes to take some dark comfort from Darwin's learnings. I really doubt either of you have truly isolated yourself from all forms of public entertainment and communal interactions for the last 21 months. Have you seen a movie/show/play, gone out to eat, done any traveling, etc.?? Unless you've truly isolated yourself for the last 21 months all you are really announcing is that you think you get to decide the line between acceptable risk and selfishness. That's not selflessness, that's arrogance. Actually, yes, with the exception of going to work and doing the occasional mandatory errand (e.g., buying groceries), I've been doing that very serious level of isolation. But that's way more extreme than what we were talking about, anyway - that people should at least be willing to wear masks if the situation calls for it, as per medical safety guidelines. If you're actively ignoring medical guidelines, you either don't trust the experts or you don't care about doing your part to minimize risk. Those are the two groups. Same here. I've limited to essential trips to the store, work now that I've landed a new job(which fortunately is remote 2 days a week, and in general is very safe), and very limited gatherings, usually of 5 people or less, and also preceded/followed with some level of complete shut in to be safe. So yeah, I'm a little frustrated when people boast that they know what they're doing when they don't do even the bare minimum, which as you point out, is all we were talking about before the standard became total isolation. In that case I take back what I said. You both talk the talk and walk the walk so you've obviously earned the right to ridicule us selfish assholes that just want to live our lives. My only remaining question is what is the end-game for either of you? COVID isn't going to be eradicated anytime soon so...? It doesn't need to be eradicated. Eradicating a virus is virtually impossible. We just need it to not be causing death or long term effects. Omicron is a sign of hope that we can reach that eventually. I think you are essentially approaching the idea of "just wanting to live your life" incorrectly. In WW2, there was rationing. In many other periods of human existence, we didn't really have a choice what luxuries came and went. It is easy to look back in history and find times when the situations of the time made life worse than the ideal. It feels like you start from the basic premise that you deserve all of the luxuries you have had before. It feels like you view the world as fundamentally providing rather than a result of circumstance. I think this perspective is immature and kind of absent minded. When you can look back at history and see oscillations in quality of life, luxuries, etc, it seems inappropriate for you to get so whiny about a pandemic making life worse. This will likely not be the last time in your life that quality of life goes down. You are not owed "just trying to live my life". Just FYI, the so called "medical experts" here in the US don't advocate for the level of isolation that DarkPlasmaBall and NewSunShine have chosen for themselves or for your ideas that we "shouldn't have tourism." They understand that millions of people support their livelihoods from entertainment, tourism, restaurants, etc. They are capable of looking at more than just COVID deaths/hospitalizations. They also understand how socioeconomic status affects health and how much life expectancy will be lost when you'd rather have these people in the bread line. There's a reason why the medical experts and governments don't adopt your idea of "we shouldn't have tourism." It's not because you care so much more about human life than them, it's because your ideas are really really dumb. Multiple people have already responded to your posts, so I apologize if I'm being a little redundant here. GoTuNk! was specifically referring to people who weren't following medical advice, so it has nothing to do with the fact that I've been quarantining as much as possible (even moreso than what's considered necessary by the medical community). If the scientific consensus is a specific set of suggestions, and I take them even further, I'm not expecting everyone to take them to the extent that I do. I'm expecting everyone to take them to the recommended extent. As far as people "just wanting to live their lives", I have two points to make: 1. I've made necessary changes to my lifestyle to deal with our current reality, but I'm still absolutely enjoying my life. It would have been great to see more people (in person) on a regular basis, but accommodations have led to new hobbies (trying out new online board games with friends, learning D&D for the first time, getting into game development, and other silver linings), so I've been trying new things and making the best out of our situation. 2. The world has changed, and if someone is refusing to get vaccinated or wear a mask (assuming that's the scientific consensus) because they won't even make the bare minimum effort to protect themselves and others, then they need to grow the fuck up. As far as what I'll be doing in the future to deal with the potentially-endemic nature of covid: I'll do what the experts recommend. For example, I get an annual flu shot, and I hope that we can eventually get to a point where an annual covid shot can make our situation reasonably manageable. I don't expect that the medical consensus will be that we ought to wear masks forever. If more people took this seriously in the first place, we wouldn't even be in a mess this extreme. I think it should be mentioned that in the US pretty much every state has been "open" for many months now. So you certainly have the ability to go to restaurants, bars, sports games, concerts or whatever else you want to do. You choose not to do these things because you want to protect yourself and loved ones. You're also sensible enough to have chosen to get the vaccine because you know it helps prevent against severe COVID and death. I'd also presume that you'd choose to wear a mask regardless of whether or not your area currently has a mask mandate in place. So when it comes to "wanting to live their lives," quite frankly you are living your life the way you want to. All of these things are things that you're doing voluntarily and these are limitations you're setting for yourself, not limitations that are set by the government. You getting an injection you want is not the same as someone being compelled to get an injection they don't want even if the contents of the syringe are the same.
I agree with pretty much everything you wrote here. I would just point out, in response to your last sentence, that there are obviously very good reasons why people are being compelled to be vaccinated, and even though my additional levels of safety that I've imposed on myself are not mandatory, there are still plenty of rules and regulations I abide by on a daily basis, for the safety of myself and others, even if they're annoying to me. I do things I don't want to do, all the time, because that's part of life. It's part of being a kid and it's also part of being an adult.
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Where I am, society has reached to a point of "you reap what you sow". Everyone I know that's gotten COVID for the last few months are vaccinated and take reasonable precautions, but are social butterflies.
Mandates don't matter as much anymore (unless if hospitalisation gets critical again). In fact, I suspect that mandates can be counterproductive and give a false sense of security ("I can go out as much as I want so long that I wear a mask! Woo hoo!")
If a government is really serious about stemming the viral spread, movement control measures should be imposed (limit operating hours, impose work rotational shifts, etc). Otherwise, just live with the virus as it is.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
I’m not supportive of continued mask mandates. They’re easy to moralize about (“just a minor inconvenience bro”) and they are a visible measure, but from what I can see compliance is low and quality control (of mask types and accompanying social distancing) is nonexistent. Money/effort would be better spent on encouraging vaccine uptake and paying nurses to staff ICUs (or forcing hospital owners to do the same). A moderate long-term inconvenience for no benefit is just a total waste.
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Norway28674 Posts
Norway has been implementing some restrictions again. So far it's all been recommendations for behavior, but they're gonna come with some 'more harsh' measures in 1 hour from now. The way I see it they're gonna have a hard time telling people how many guests they can have during Christmas this year - that capital has been expended, but more home office and night life / cultural events are taking a hit.
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On December 14 2021 03:21 LegalLord wrote:
I’m not supportive of continued mask mandates. They’re easy to moralize about (“just a minor inconvenience bro”) and they are a visible measure, but from what I can see compliance is low and quality control (of mask types and accompanying social distancing) is nonexistent. Money/effort would be better spent on encouraging vaccine uptake and paying nurses to staff ICUs (or forcing hospital owners to do the same). A moderate long-term inconvenience for no benefit is just a total waste.
If mandates aren't being enforced, then that's pretty silly.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On December 14 2021 03:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2021 03:21 LegalLord wrote:
I’m not supportive of continued mask mandates. They’re easy to moralize about (“just a minor inconvenience bro”) and they are a visible measure, but from what I can see compliance is low and quality control (of mask types and accompanying social distancing) is nonexistent. Money/effort would be better spent on encouraging vaccine uptake and paying nurses to staff ICUs (or forcing hospital owners to do the same). A moderate long-term inconvenience for no benefit is just a total waste. If mandates aren't being enforced, then that's pretty silly.
No one cares about enforcing them anymore. Only place these days I’ve seen that has anything more than an oft-ignored sign is airliners, but just about nowhere else does anyone bother.
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On December 14 2021 03:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2021 03:21 LegalLord wrote:
I’m not supportive of continued mask mandates. They’re easy to moralize about (“just a minor inconvenience bro”) and they are a visible measure, but from what I can see compliance is low and quality control (of mask types and accompanying social distancing) is nonexistent. Money/effort would be better spent on encouraging vaccine uptake and paying nurses to staff ICUs (or forcing hospital owners to do the same). A moderate long-term inconvenience for no benefit is just a total waste. If mandates aren't being enforced, then that's pretty silly.
Employees of stores tasked with applying the mask mandates were mostly originally employed as general retail staff, not bouncers.Dealing with confrontation dozens of times per day gets old fast i imagine.Not to mention the numerous times guns have been pulled over the issue.
Already talk of the mandates being scrapped here early over abuse and violence.
https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/coronavirus/victorian-government-considering-removing-vaccination-mandate-three-months-earlier-due-to-incidents/news-story/a07e37c1866f11269adf4218cb00fde5
"We've owned this book shop for 20 years and we've never had a physical assault against any staff member, but we had three in one day," Melissa Traderso told ABC Radio Melbourne.
"Just have some respect for these poor, innocent people who are just doing their job."
So no, not surprised to see employees not enforcing mandates.
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On December 14 2021 03:46 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2021 03:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 14 2021 03:21 LegalLord wrote:
I’m not supportive of continued mask mandates. They’re easy to moralize about (“just a minor inconvenience bro”) and they are a visible measure, but from what I can see compliance is low and quality control (of mask types and accompanying social distancing) is nonexistent. Money/effort would be better spent on encouraging vaccine uptake and paying nurses to staff ICUs (or forcing hospital owners to do the same). A moderate long-term inconvenience for no benefit is just a total waste. If mandates aren't being enforced, then that's pretty silly. No one cares about enforcing them anymore. Only place these days I’ve seen that has anything more than an oft-ignored sign is airliners, but just about nowhere else does anyone bother.
There seem to be large differences from country to country then.
People being violent because of measures is not an argument against the measures but against those people btw.
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On December 14 2021 18:13 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2021 03:46 LegalLord wrote:On December 14 2021 03:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 14 2021 03:21 LegalLord wrote:
I’m not supportive of continued mask mandates. They’re easy to moralize about (“just a minor inconvenience bro”) and they are a visible measure, but from what I can see compliance is low and quality control (of mask types and accompanying social distancing) is nonexistent. Money/effort would be better spent on encouraging vaccine uptake and paying nurses to staff ICUs (or forcing hospital owners to do the same). A moderate long-term inconvenience for no benefit is just a total waste. If mandates aren't being enforced, then that's pretty silly. No one cares about enforcing them anymore. Only place these days I’ve seen that has anything more than an oft-ignored sign is airliners, but just about nowhere else does anyone bother. There seem to be large differences from country to country then. People being violent because of measures is not an argument against the measures but against those people btw.
Yep. If people are being ragey babies because of masks, it's on them and not the masks or the business. Enforcement however I think does belong in the realm of police or security and not staff though. Last time I went to a mall I didn't notice more than a couple people maskless. It's really not that hard, and it's just common courtesy at this point. It's not like masking is purely symbolic, you're actively reducing the chance of spreading/contracting by some percentage that depends on the quality of mask used. Sure, on a personal level, it basically doesn't matter, but that same chance reduction applied across the entire population is a massive difference.
Omicron news is pretty ominous at this point. Ontario is reporting doubling times of ~3 days, with Rt of 4 in a highly vaccinated environment(still early numbers, but it's extremely high). I don't know what the plan is to implement measures, but I don't think any prior measures would be sufficient to do more than blunt the growth rate slightly. We've never dealt with a variant of covid that had anything quite that high relative to the immune population.
I'm pretty content to just let it burn out over the winter at this point with whatever existing measures we have. Measures to deal with OG covid were doable, but if it can spread that quickly in a province where 3/4 people have been fully vaccinated, with people taking some precautions, there's no longer a reasonable way to stop it.
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On December 14 2021 18:13 justanothertownie wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2021 03:46 LegalLord wrote:On December 14 2021 03:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 14 2021 03:21 LegalLord wrote:
I’m not supportive of continued mask mandates. They’re easy to moralize about (“just a minor inconvenience bro”) and they are a visible measure, but from what I can see compliance is low and quality control (of mask types and accompanying social distancing) is nonexistent. Money/effort would be better spent on encouraging vaccine uptake and paying nurses to staff ICUs (or forcing hospital owners to do the same). A moderate long-term inconvenience for no benefit is just a total waste. If mandates aren't being enforced, then that's pretty silly. No one cares about enforcing them anymore. Only place these days I’ve seen that has anything more than an oft-ignored sign is airliners, but just about nowhere else does anyone bother. There seem to be large differences from country to country then. People being violent because of measures is not an argument against the measures but against those people btw.
I live in a very affluent area and mask adherence/enforcement is very good. It’s very smooth sailing and the only people you ever (rarely) see making a fuss are the people that look like people who would make a fuss.
I went to a yeehaw rinky dink part of Oregon and it’s the complete opposite. It was like a badge of honor to defy masks. Totally revolting culture.
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Northern Ireland25451 Posts
Outside of legit exemptions, I’m all for no mask no service. Hopefully in my last Christmas period in retail now, fingers crossed. If you’re assaulting people over it I mean, come on, get a grip.
Store security don’t tend to enforce at the door and, for whatever reason recently the compliance is dropping noticeably from almost total.
We’re explicitly instructed to not challenge folks, I would personally be comfortable doing this, but I know many of my colleagues aren’t, best case someone whacks their mask on, worst case they get violent.
As Amui mentioned, it’s a matter of courtesy, and despite being a useful practical measure the symbolic benefit of adherence is, IMO underplayed.
If people, for no particular reason are having their risk of exposure increased in the workplace, it’s not great for morale long-term and people will stop taking their own precautions
In combination with shitshows like the now infamous 10 Downing Street Christmas party, why bother?
I imagine some of these measures don’t have a huge impact in mitigating Covid spread, but if they’re not upheld properly they’ll piss people off into not doing many of the things that, across a whole population are huge factors in aggregate.
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Mask-wearing and social-distancing is more lax at workplace. Friends just can't help getting close and speaking face-to-face. True enough, there's where most clusters spring up.
Once social gatherings pick up during the year end holidays, more clusters will follow. Still, I can sympathise with that. Reunions are the glue that keeps families together (despite me personally disliking large reunions with a passion).
But workplace? It's silly that certain companies and managers wish to get back to normal before the pandemic ends. The most productive and efficient workplaces are the ones that keep flexible rotational shifts. Trying to get back everyone back to office is counterproductive - once a case is reported, even more work is disrupted.
Anyway, the point is that the pandemic can be managed better if communities and leaders just act with more common sense.
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My friend working in police said "We are observing covid denilism transiting from radicalism into extremism". Well i guess he is right: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-59664076
TLDR: German police arrested people over plot to kill Premier of Saxony (over covid restrictions).
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On December 15 2021 19:34 Silvanel wrote:My friend working in police said "We are observing covid denilism transting from radicalism into extremism". Well i guess he is right: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-59664076TLDR: German police arrested people over plot to kill Premier Saxony (over covid restrictions).
Sadly, Saxony is pretty well known for being a hotbed for nazis and other extremists. This fits in totally well. And apparently, we do have a problem with large groups of complete morons organizing in telegram chat groups to spread insanity and hate. Nazis have been doing that for a while, now pro-pandemic people do the same.
These telegram echo chambers of crazypeople already lead to an innocent dying here in Germany. Some idiot who self-radicalized in lunatic echo chambers shot a 20-year old student working part- time at a gas station because that student insisted (as his job and the law demands) that the idiot should wear a mask.
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On December 15 2021 22:35 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2021 19:34 Silvanel wrote:My friend working in police said "We are observing covid denilism transting from radicalism into extremism". Well i guess he is right: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-59664076TLDR: German police arrested people over plot to kill Premier Saxony (over covid restrictions). Sadly, Saxony is pretty well known for being a hotbed for nazis and other extremists. This fits in totally well. And apparently, we do have a problem with large groups of complete morons organizing in telegram chat groups to spread insanity and hate. Nazis have been doing that for a while, now pro-pandemic people do the same. These telegram echo chambers of crazypeople already lead to an innocent dying here in Germany. Some idiot who self-radicalized in lunatic echo chambers shot a 20-year old student working part- time at a gas station because that student insisted (as his job and the law demands) that the idiot should wear a mask.
but we have to investitate the radical left lunatics! too.
just look at the hippy lunatics in the south of germany, holding hands. dangerously!
(and on a more serious note also not vaccinating as well as consicously not adhering to rules during marches.)
In all earnest, I don't think this news suprises anyone. Sad as it is. Elections have shown that fascist populism is electable in the German East. Surely didn't help when public officials were ever so reluctant to condemn a mob hunting refugees, trying to lynch them and be judge, jury and executioner.
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Well with Omicron around the corner if not already here for most of the world, hope again rests with pfizer and their products again. Seems like paxlovid is pretty effective at reducing severity in infected individuals, even days after onset of symptoms. Vaccine is the first line of defense for most, and that'll give the most vulnerable a second boost as well, provided pfizer can manufacture enough of it.
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Looks like we don’t know much about how dangerous omicron is though, just that it’s unbelievably contagious (i read that it’s estimated there are 400k new cases a day in the uk). We can pray that it’s a milder strain, in which case it might be our pandemic exit.
If it’s as dangerous as delta, we are really screwed.
France is thinking about making the vaccine compulsory, which at that point is a no brainer imo.
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So scary in UK. Here we go again...
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EPT
