• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 13:19
CET 19:19
KST 03:19
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10
Community News
RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket13Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge2[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation14Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada4SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA17
StarCraft 2
General
SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 3 $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest 2025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales!
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 501 Price of Progress Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death
Brood War
General
soO on: FanTaSy's Potential Return to StarCraft 2v2 maps which are SC2 style with teams together? Data analysis on 70 million replays What happened to TvZ on Retro? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO16 Tie Breaker - Group B - Sun 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO16 Tie Breaker - Group A - Sat 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Current Meta Game Theory for Starcraft How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance
Other Games
General Games
Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Clair Obscur - Expedition 33
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine About SC2SEA.COM
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Health Impact of Joining…
TrAiDoS
Dyadica Evangelium — Chapt…
Hildegard
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2036 users

Coronavirus and You - Page 506

Forum Index > General Forum
Post a Reply
Prev 1 504 505 506 507 508 699 Next
Any and all updates regarding the COVID-19 will need a source provided. Please do your part in helping us to keep this thread maintainable and under control.

It is YOUR responsibility to fully read through the sources that you link, and you MUST provide a brief summary explaining what the source is about. Do not expect other people to do the work for you.

Conspiracy theories and fear mongering will absolutely not be tolerated in this thread. Expect harsh mod actions if you try to incite fear needlessly.

This is not a politics thread! You are allowed to post information regarding politics if it's related to the coronavirus, but do NOT discuss politics in here.

Added a disclaimer on page 662. Many need to post better.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45089 Posts
October 28 2021 14:32 GMT
#10101
On October 28 2021 23:27 teeel141 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On top of that why would anyone think, given how much worse covid is, that the unknown risk from it woukd not be worse?


Did you not fully read my post? I'm talking about people who already had covid.


You can get covid more than once lol.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15725 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-10-28 14:38:06
October 28 2021 14:37 GMT
#10102
My cousin has had covid twice so far. When our family told her to get vaccinated, she said she's already suffering long term effects of covid and doesn't want to add long term vaccine effects onto it.
Magic Powers
Profile Joined April 2012
Austria4478 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-10-28 14:40:47
October 28 2021 14:39 GMT
#10103
On October 28 2021 23:27 teeel141 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On top of that why would anyone think, given how much worse covid is, that the unknown risk from it woukd not be worse?


Did you not fully read my post? I'm talking about people who already had covid.


You can get covid again, just like you can get the flu again. I've caught the flu many times in my life. This is why it makes sense to get vaccinated at some point even if you've recovered from an infection.

On October 28 2021 23:37 Mohdoo wrote:
My cousin has had covid twice so far. When our family told her to get vaccinated, she said she's already suffering long term effects of covid and doesn't want to add long term vaccine effects onto it.


I'm facepalming so hard right now...
If you want to do the right thing, 80% of your job is done if you don't do the wrong thing.
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-10-28 15:42:32
October 28 2021 15:41 GMT
#10104
--- Nuked ---
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45089 Posts
October 28 2021 16:07 GMT
#10105
On October 29 2021 00:41 JimmiC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 28 2021 23:27 teeel141 wrote:
On top of that why would anyone think, given how much worse covid is, that the unknown risk from it woukd not be worse?


Did you not fully read my post? I'm talking about people who already had covid.

So am I. I'm just living in the world of facts not fear.


And that's because facts don't care about our fearlings.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
NewSunshine
Profile Joined July 2011
United States5938 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-10-28 16:11:07
October 28 2021 16:07 GMT
#10106
The "risk is non-zero" argument for avoiding vaccines is so stupid I'm sure it gave me a gray hair somewhere.

Ask any engineer or scientist, or anyone who has a solid base of common sense about them. Literally nothing you have done, or will ever do, is entirely risk-free. But so many things are so asymptotically close to zero-risk that we don't get pedantic and split hairs. But I guess now we're splitting hairs. A vaccine is as close to risk-free as you are ever gonna get on the battlefield that is a pandemic. Just get it and move on.
"If you find yourself feeling lost, take pride in the accuracy of your feelings." - Night Vale
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
October 28 2021 16:17 GMT
#10107
--- Nuked ---
iPlaY.NettleS
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Australia4360 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-10-29 09:23:43
October 29 2021 09:21 GMT
#10108
Many of the top Victorian lawyers have penned an opinion piece titled ‘An Open letter against Victorias new pandemic laws’.The new laws passed state lower house a couple of days back and will enter upper house in two weeks.

The laws allow the premier to declare a pandemic for three months at a time (indefinitely) without the approval of the chief health officer.The health minister is also given pandemic powers that do not need to be signed off by the CHO.
Plenty of other stuff which I have not had the time to look at closely (Don’t live in Victoria) but the top lawyers seem very concerned as to where the state is going.They state the context of the new law is ‘unlimited’.

“The overriding concern is that the bill, if passed, may allow the Victorian government effectively to rule the state of Victoria by decree for the foreseeable future, without proper parliamentary oversight or the usual checks and balances on executive power,” the letter read.


The content of a pandemic order is unlimited — the minister can make “any order” (s 165AI(1)). The minister is effectively given plenary legislative power. To avoid any argument that the words “any order” should be read down, the Bill then lists an extremely broad list of examples of matters that the orders can contain (this list is expressly stated not to limit the generality of the power to make “any order”).
These include, among many others, orders requiring detention of persons, restricting movement, regulating public or private gatherings, requiring provision of information and requiring testing and medical examination of persons (s 165AI(2)).


The lawyers who penned the letter are as follows,
Ross H Gillies QC, Jennifer J Batrouney AM QC, James W S Peters AM QC, Peter W Collinson QC, Philip D Crutchfield QC, David J Batt QC, Stuart Wood AM QC, Gregory P Harris QC, Gerard D Dalton QC, Paul J Hayes QC, Stewart J Maiden QC, Richard P P Dalton QC, Eugene Wheelahan QC, Dimitri Ternovski

If anyone wants to read the whole thing, I’ve posted the entire letter as a spoiler due to paywall.

https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/an-open-letter-against-victoria-s-new-pandemic-laws-20211029-p5948y.html

+ Show Spoiler +
We are deeply concerned about the Public Health and Wellbeing Amendment (Pandemic Management) Bill 2021 (Bill).

The overriding concern is that the Bill, if passed, may allow the Victorian government effectively to rule the state of Victoria by decree for the foreseeable future, without proper parliamentary oversight or the usual checks and balances on executive power.

A key feature of the Bill is that the Minister of Health will have the power to make “pandemic orders” (s165AI). This effectively confers an unlimited and practically unreviewable power on the minister to rule Victoria by decree on a long-term basis:

The minister can make a pandemic order while a “pandemic declaration” made by the Premier is in force. Given the low threshold for the making of this declaration (s165AB) and the fact that COVID-19 is unlikely to be going away any time soon, we can expect a pandemic declaration to be in force for the foreseeable future. Thus, the minister’s power to make pandemic orders will remain in place for the foreseeable future.

Once a pandemic declaration is in place, the only other requirement for the minister to make a pandemic order is that he or she must believe that the order is “reasonably necessary to protect public health”.

Not only is this threshold low, but it does not need to be satisfied objectively — it is enough if the minister subjectively believes that the order is “reasonably necessary”. This will make it practically impossible to challenge the merits of the order in a court.

A person wishing to challenge the order on the merits will need to establish legal unreasonableness. This is a very high bar that might catch only the most extreme forms of overreach.

The content of a pandemic order is unlimited — the minister can make “any order” (s 165AI(1)). The minister is effectively given plenary legislative power. To avoid any argument that the words “any order” should be read down, the Bill then lists an extremely broad list of examples of matters that the orders can contain (this list is expressly stated not to limit the generality of the power to make “any order”).
These include, among many others, orders requiring detention of persons, restricting movement, regulating public or private gatherings, requiring provision of information and requiring testing and medical examination of persons (s 165AI(2)).


Pandemic orders are expressly allowed to “differentiate between or vary in its application to persons or classes of person identified by reference to an attribute within the meaning of the Equal Opportunity Act 2010” (s 165AK(4)).
The latter includes a wide range of protected attributes including “political belief or activity” (Equal Opportunity Act 2010 s 6). Thus, the Bill expressly contemplates that the minister can make a pandemic order targeting persons on the basis of their political beliefs or activities if the minister forms the view that this is “reasonably necessary to protect public health”.

It is not difficult to imagine how some future health minister might form this view in respect of political beliefs or activities that involve questioning or opposing the government public health measures.

Pandemic orders can be disallowed by Parliament only upon recommendation by the Scrutiny of Acts and Regulations Committee (SARC) or if the government has failed to table the order (s 165AU). But SARC cannot inquire into the merits of the order – it can only recommend disallowance on narrow grounds, effectively limited to the order being beyond power or being incompatible with human rights under the Charter of Human Rights and Responsibilities Act 2006 (s 165AS).
In any event, the governing party may command a majority in the SARC, as is the case at the moment. Thus, in reality, Parliament’s ability to control the minister’s power through disallowance is going to be very limited or non-existent.


The Bill’s Independent Pandemic Management Advisory Committee is not a significant check on the minister’s power. The committee will be wholly appointed by the minister him or herself (s 165CE) and will have no power to rescind or amend the minister’s orders.

The Bill also confers extremely broad and unchecked powers on authorised officers:

Without seeking to in any way denigrate their important work, it is to be remembered that authorised officers are numerous and unelected, and include relatively low-level officials, including officers appointed by local councils and other public servants (Public Health and Wellbeing Act 2008 s 31). As at late 2020, there were as many as 382 authorised officers in Victoria. Loielo v Giles [2020] VSC 722; (2020) 63 VR 1 at [52]-[53].

Yet, the Bill confers on these authorised officers extraordinary powers, again effectively for the foreseeable future. If authorised by the CHO, they will be able to, among other things, “take any action or give any direction, other than to detain a person, that the authorised officer believes is reasonably necessary to protect public health” (s 165BA(1)(a)).

These directions can target multiple people in certain circumstances, including if the direction “relates to a particular activity at a particular location and is given to persons undertaking that activity (including, but not limited to, a direction to restrict movement, require movement or limit entry)” (s 165BA(4)(b)).

Thus, an individual authorised officer will single-handedly have the power to shut down a political protest if the officer subjectively believes that this is “reasonably necessary to protect public health”.

These directions are, again, effectively unreviewable.
The Bill also contains many other troubling elements, including abrogating privilege against self- incrimination (s 212A) and entrenching the system where administrative detention is reviewable not in a court but by Detention Review Officers appointed by the department (ss 165BI and 165BJ).

It is, in our view, no answer to these criticisms to say that the Bill contains more safeguards than presently exist for the emergency powers under the Public Health and Wellbeing Act 2008. The emergency powers are just that – extraordinary powers that are available to be exercised for only a very short period (originally six months, though this period was extended).

There is no need to give the government of the day a blank cheque to rule by decree.

It is one thing to allow temporary rule by decree to deal with an unforeseen and extraordinary emergency in circumstances of extreme urgency. It is something else altogether to entrench rule by decree as a long-term norm.

In our view, this is antithetical to basic democratic principles and should not be allowed to happen.

We are now more than 18 months into the pandemic. It has become clear what sort of powers might be required to deal with it. There is no need to give the government of the day a blank cheque to rule by decree.

Instead, the Bill should give the minister specific powers to do specific things (such as border closures, lockdowns, mask and vaccination mandates, etc), subject to specific and prescriptive requirements listed in the Bill, and subject to unconditional Parliamentary disallowance (i.e. without requiring any SARC recommendation).

If these powers prove inadequate, the minister can come back to Parliament and seek additional powers. This is how a parliamentary democracy is meant to work.


If there is a need for a general power to make orders in the case of some new unforeseen development requiring urgent action before Parliament has a chance to consider the proposed measures, such power should be restricted to orders that lapse after a very brief period unless confirmed by both houses of Parliament.

At the very least, the power to make general pandemic orders must be subject to unconditional disallowance by Parliament (i.e. without requiring any SARC recommendation).

We call on the Parliament to amend the Bill or vote against it.

Ross H Gillies QC, Jennifer J Batrouney AM QC, James W S Peters AM QC, Peter W Collinson QC, Philip D Crutchfield QC, David J Batt QC, Stuart Wood AM QC, Gregory P Harris QC, Gerard D Dalton QC, Paul J Hayes QC, Stewart J Maiden QC, Richard P P Dalton QC, Eugene Wheelahan QC, Dimitri Ternovski
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7PvoI6gvQs
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland26106 Posts
October 29 2021 10:00 GMT
#10109
On October 28 2021 23:37 Mohdoo wrote:
My cousin has had covid twice so far. When our family told her to get vaccinated, she said she's already suffering long term effects of covid and doesn't want to add long term vaccine effects onto it.

Sounds like a prime candidate for a vacation to Mohdoo Island.

'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany6997 Posts
October 29 2021 11:49 GMT
#10110
On October 28 2021 23:37 Mohdoo wrote:
My cousin has had covid twice so far. When our family told her to get vaccinated, she said she's already suffering long term effects of covid and doesn't want to add long term vaccine effects onto it.


Third times the charm
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
Artisreal
Profile Joined June 2009
Germany9235 Posts
October 29 2021 11:55 GMT
#10111
On October 28 2021 18:17 teeel141 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 28 2021 18:12 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On October 28 2021 13:17 xM(Z wrote:
On October 27 2021 00:11 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On October 27 2021 00:03 xM(Z wrote:
On October 26 2021 04:25 Mohdoo wrote:
On October 26 2021 02:58 xM(Z wrote:
it won't matter, they'll still push vaccines.


In your eyes, what is a vaccine and how does it function?
it's something you take up the ass then go: yes!, now i'm protected ... until you take it up again.
eventually, you realize that somehow-somewhere, something gets used up.+ Show Spoiler +
i mean come on, he asked for it


He asked for it, because it doesn't appear as if you understand what you're talking about.

+ Show Spoiler +
There's a long-standing TL meme about Romanians and their sense of humor, too.
no, it's called beating a dead horse.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2021/10/18/prior-covid-infection-is-as-effective-at-preventing-the-virus-as-vaccination-uk-study-suggests/
The study published by the U.K.’s Office of National Statistics (ONS) looked at more than 8,000 positive coronavirus tests across Britain between May and August, when delta was the dominant variant.

During this time, people who had previously recovered from Covid-19 were about 71% less likely to contract it a second time, the analysis found.

This represents about the same level of protection the study found was offered by two doses of the vaccines made by Pfizer and AstraZeneca, which have been prominently used in Europe’s inoculation drive.

Two doses of the Pfizer vaccine reduced the risk of contracting Covid-19 by around 73% compared to 62% for AstraZeneca’s vaccine.

The overlap in confidence intervals meant there “was no evidence” that full vaccination was any more effective in preventing Covid-19 than previous natural infection, the researchers concluded.

The study, which has not been peer reviewed, found previous infection was similarly effective at preventing symptomatic Covid-19, but did not delve into the differences between natural infection and vaccines in staving off severe disease.
he can take his vaccine and shove it; i will never be ok with vaccinating previously infected individuals nor ok with discriminatory, brain dead restrictions for previously infected individuals.


That article doesn't say that previously infected individuals shouldn't additionally be vaccinated lol. There's literally no good reason not to. Having natural immunity + vaccinated immunity is obviously better than just having natural immunity.


The long term risks of vaccines are completely unknown. And the only argument against that is that it's the same with covid. But if you already had covid that doesn't matter anymore.

Also short term risks arent 0 either

What is a long term risk?
Usually something that occurs a couple of weeks after vaccinations and stays for a long time.
Not something that arises years in the future.
The connection between vaccine and illness sometimes takes a bit of time to be established though. I think this is what you are afraid of.

With the amount of people already vaccinated and monitored around the globe, it's not that likely that there are severe undiscovered side effects yet to be found. Maybe apart from the more secretive vaccines like sinovax or maybe sputnik.
That means, the risk can very much be estimated and is all but unknown.

And even if something slipped through the net, it's highly unlikely that the risks of the needle outweigh the risk of an infection.
This fact applies to probably 95% of people under 60 but gets ignored time and again.

Thank God my friends aren't health professionals or anti vax.
passive quaranstream fan
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15725 Posts
October 29 2021 19:11 GMT
#10112
Asking about the long term effects of an MRNA vaccine is like asking about the long term effects of a car wash. The fundamental physics and chemistry of what is happening at the atomic level make the conversation inherently foolish. This is why this situation is such a nightmare. Science has progressed way past the point where laymen dipshits can casually inspect a product to see if it is safe. We are basically in the realm of magic in the eyes of the layman. I legitimately think that if people sat down an spent 5-6 hours researching what exactly an MRNA vaccine is, they would be totally blown away and would say they had no idea science had reached that point.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45089 Posts
October 29 2021 19:40 GMT
#10113
5 to 11 year olds now!

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/10/29/1049704374/fda-authorizes-use-of-pfizers-covid-vaccine-for-5-to-11-year-olds?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_term=nprnews&utm_campaign=npr
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Lmui
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada6216 Posts
October 29 2021 23:48 GMT
#10114
Soon*

Doesn't it need to go to CDC first?
Regardless, it's some really good news, since that's the last part of the population that has large social interactions. Under 5 is mostly daycare with a small amount of preschool that's probably smaller groups and easier to manage/limit
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
October 30 2021 02:24 GMT
#10115
--- Nuked ---
xM(Z
Profile Joined November 2006
Romania5296 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-10-30 06:06:35
October 30 2021 06:01 GMT
#10116
On October 28 2021 18:12 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 28 2021 13:17 xM(Z wrote:
On October 27 2021 00:11 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On October 27 2021 00:03 xM(Z wrote:
On October 26 2021 04:25 Mohdoo wrote:
On October 26 2021 02:58 xM(Z wrote:
it won't matter, they'll still push vaccines.


In your eyes, what is a vaccine and how does it function?
it's something you take up the ass then go: yes!, now i'm protected ... until you take it up again.
eventually, you realize that somehow-somewhere, something gets used up.+ Show Spoiler +
i mean come on, he asked for it


He asked for it, because it doesn't appear as if you understand what you're talking about.

+ Show Spoiler +
There's a long-standing TL meme about Romanians and their sense of humor, too.
no, it's called beating a dead horse.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2021/10/18/prior-covid-infection-is-as-effective-at-preventing-the-virus-as-vaccination-uk-study-suggests/
The study published by the U.K.’s Office of National Statistics (ONS) looked at more than 8,000 positive coronavirus tests across Britain between May and August, when delta was the dominant variant.

During this time, people who had previously recovered from Covid-19 were about 71% less likely to contract it a second time, the analysis found.

This represents about the same level of protection the study found was offered by two doses of the vaccines made by Pfizer and AstraZeneca, which have been prominently used in Europe’s inoculation drive.

Two doses of the Pfizer vaccine reduced the risk of contracting Covid-19 by around 73% compared to 62% for AstraZeneca’s vaccine.

The overlap in confidence intervals meant there “was no evidence” that full vaccination was any more effective in preventing Covid-19 than previous natural infection, the researchers concluded.

The study, which has not been peer reviewed, found previous infection was similarly effective at preventing symptomatic Covid-19, but did not delve into the differences between natural infection and vaccines in staving off severe disease.
he can take his vaccine and shove it; i will never be ok with vaccinating previously infected individuals nor ok with discriminatory, brain dead restrictions for previously infected individuals.


That article doesn't say that previously infected individuals shouldn't additionally be vaccinated lol. There's literally no good reason not to. Having natural immunity + vaccinated immunity is obviously better than just having natural immunity.
on that part, my take was a reactionary attitude regarding the enforcement of vaccination and not its merits.

but fuck dude, while you're at it(more protection is better protection), since previously infected and vaccinated individuals fair better than any other subgroup as far as covid goes, then go and get infected, 'cause being only vaccinated make's you a social liability.

i mean, the vaccine protects you, right?, so go get MORE protection lol ...

Edit: and to those spewing random links/studies about vaccine immunity/protection etc ... they're all shit.
if the study didn't account for previously infected individuals they're useless 'cause they compound the merits of both but give credits only to vaccines.
And my fury stands ready. I bring all your plans to nought. My bleak heart beats steady. 'Tis you whom I have sought.
Magic Powers
Profile Joined April 2012
Austria4478 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-10-30 06:06:07
October 30 2021 06:02 GMT
#10117
On October 30 2021 11:24 JimmiC wrote:
New study out is contrary to the one from a month ago that said natural was better, for at least tge first 6 months (because of onky hoe long they have data for) vaccine is better. Plus of course if you get it, its way safer.

https://ca.yahoo.com/news/vaccine-confers-better-protection-than-natural-immunity-cdc-finds-201511956.html


I'd send this to my colleagues if I didn't already know that their response will be "so the scientists also don't know what's going on, changing their minds all the time".
There's no way getting through to these people.

I'll send it anyway and maybe I'll learn something from their response.
If you want to do the right thing, 80% of your job is done if you don't do the wrong thing.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45089 Posts
October 30 2021 11:23 GMT
#10118
On October 30 2021 15:01 xM(Z wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 28 2021 18:12 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On October 28 2021 13:17 xM(Z wrote:
On October 27 2021 00:11 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On October 27 2021 00:03 xM(Z wrote:
On October 26 2021 04:25 Mohdoo wrote:
On October 26 2021 02:58 xM(Z wrote:
it won't matter, they'll still push vaccines.


In your eyes, what is a vaccine and how does it function?
it's something you take up the ass then go: yes!, now i'm protected ... until you take it up again.
eventually, you realize that somehow-somewhere, something gets used up.+ Show Spoiler +
i mean come on, he asked for it


He asked for it, because it doesn't appear as if you understand what you're talking about.

+ Show Spoiler +
There's a long-standing TL meme about Romanians and their sense of humor, too.
no, it's called beating a dead horse.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2021/10/18/prior-covid-infection-is-as-effective-at-preventing-the-virus-as-vaccination-uk-study-suggests/
The study published by the U.K.’s Office of National Statistics (ONS) looked at more than 8,000 positive coronavirus tests across Britain between May and August, when delta was the dominant variant.

During this time, people who had previously recovered from Covid-19 were about 71% less likely to contract it a second time, the analysis found.

This represents about the same level of protection the study found was offered by two doses of the vaccines made by Pfizer and AstraZeneca, which have been prominently used in Europe’s inoculation drive.

Two doses of the Pfizer vaccine reduced the risk of contracting Covid-19 by around 73% compared to 62% for AstraZeneca’s vaccine.

The overlap in confidence intervals meant there “was no evidence” that full vaccination was any more effective in preventing Covid-19 than previous natural infection, the researchers concluded.

The study, which has not been peer reviewed, found previous infection was similarly effective at preventing symptomatic Covid-19, but did not delve into the differences between natural infection and vaccines in staving off severe disease.
he can take his vaccine and shove it; i will never be ok with vaccinating previously infected individuals nor ok with discriminatory, brain dead restrictions for previously infected individuals.


That article doesn't say that previously infected individuals shouldn't additionally be vaccinated lol. There's literally no good reason not to. Having natural immunity + vaccinated immunity is obviously better than just having natural immunity.
on that part, my take was a reactionary attitude regarding the enforcement of vaccination and not its merits.

but fuck dude, while you're at it(more protection is better protection), since previously infected and vaccinated individuals fair better than any other subgroup as far as covid goes, then go and get infected, 'cause being only vaccinated make's you a social liability.

i mean, the vaccine protects you, right?, so go get MORE protection lol ...


I think you may have lost sight of what the point of all this is. Ideally, we'd avoid getting covid. Period. That's the entire point. Secondarily, if we do get covid, we'd be better protected.

If we start with someone who's already been infected with covid, giving them a vaccine - whenever it's appropriate - allows them even more protection, because they're less likely to get infected and less likely to have worse symptoms if they do get infected, and there's essentially no risk to this additional vaccination process.

On the other hand, if we start with someone who's already been vaccinated, giving them covid is necessarily antithetical to the objective of not getting covid in the first place. It undermines the entire reason why we're trying to be careful: giving someone covid can't possibly be a good strategy for avoiding covid.

If you want "even more protection", then you get a booster shot - whenever it's appropriate.

Edit: and to those spewing random links/studies about vaccine immunity/protection etc ... they're all shit.


That is simply not how you engage with links and studies. You can theorycraft all you want, but some of us are actually interested in what the research and results are.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
October 30 2021 13:52 GMT
#10119
--- Nuked ---
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15725 Posts
October 30 2021 16:21 GMT
#10120
On October 30 2021 15:02 Magic Powers wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2021 11:24 JimmiC wrote:
New study out is contrary to the one from a month ago that said natural was better, for at least tge first 6 months (because of onky hoe long they have data for) vaccine is better. Plus of course if you get it, its way safer.

https://ca.yahoo.com/news/vaccine-confers-better-protection-than-natural-immunity-cdc-finds-201511956.html


I'd send this to my colleagues if I didn't already know that their response will be "so the scientists also don't know what's going on, changing their minds all the time".
There's no way getting through to these people.

I'll send it anyway and maybe I'll learn something from their response.

Do you work in some sort of trade skill or physical labor? My experience has been that trade skills and physical labor has crazy high vax skepticism
Prev 1 504 505 506 507 508 699 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Monday Night Weeklies
17:00
#31
RotterdaM886
TKL 483
IndyStarCraft 223
SteadfastSC142
BRAT_OK 111
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 886
TKL 483
mouzHeroMarine 289
IndyStarCraft 223
SteadfastSC 142
BRAT_OK 111
JuggernautJason67
Livibee 23
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 30383
Calm 2455
Horang2 1354
Hyuk 341
firebathero 164
BeSt 145
Dewaltoss 115
scan(afreeca) 45
Backho 45
Snow 43
[ Show more ]
NaDa 10
Dota 2
qojqva3210
BananaSlamJamma180
Counter-Strike
fl0m6861
zeus798
allub160
oskar82
Other Games
FrodaN2221
singsing2066
Gorgc1770
Beastyqt644
Lowko380
KnowMe134
ArmadaUGS134
Mew2King87
Trikslyr73
QueenE36
C9.Mang031
Sick10
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream342
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• kabyraGe 49
• iHatsuTV 14
• intothetv
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 4021
• lizZardDota255
League of Legends
• Nemesis5052
• Jankos1891
• TFBlade1267
Other Games
• WagamamaTV468
• Shiphtur260
• imaqtpie260
Upcoming Events
OSC
4h 41m
Wardi Open
17h 41m
PiGosaur Cup
1d 6h
Replay Cast
1d 14h
Wardi Open
1d 17h
OSC
1d 18h
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
OSC
3 days
[ Show More ]
LAN Event
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

SOOP Univ League 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
SLON Tour Season 2
META Madness #9
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.