Coronavirus and You - Page 502

On October 19 2021 00:07 xM(Z wrote:
that was a shit take on what your link says and your link also has shit takes.
if antibodies are not the way humans control covid, then why are people getting the vaccine in the first place(its whole purpose is to make the body create antibodies).

that's one example but there are more, and you take is shit because they refer to antibody testing not being reliable in diagnosing covid(solely because covid comes before antibodies, so you 'miss' the beginning of the infection), which is true, not what you implied there.

On October 19 2021 00:17 JimmiC wrote:

Even within that article it talks about how it is virus dependent and bring up the example of where its not the antibodies but the T-cells.

It is always strange that when balanced articles are posted some do not seem to have the ability to read the points that are for their point of view and against then realize that as of know they just don't know so making firm conclusions like "I got high score, I'm safe", are both dangerous and inaccurate. It is as if it is not simple enough to fit in their bucket of predetermined answers it must be wrong.

I like you would like to hear more and am interested in the ongoing research. They may well someday (even soon with how much money is being dumped into research on the topic) be able to do something simple and direct. But currently, given the inaccuracies of the tests and a lack of full understanding about exactly what causes immunity and what creates break through we are not their yet.

I do find it funny that exact same people who were for months complaining about the inaccuracies of the diagnostic test, which happens to be WAY more accurate than the antibody test. Are now completely taking the antibody test as "fact" and drawing all sorts of conclusions from the results.

COVID-19 infection leads to proliferation of B cells and T cells, which is followed by the survival of a few memory B and T cells that insure long-term protection after elimination of the virus. COVID-19 infection also leads to potent activation of myeloid cells such as monocytes and macrophages. Interestingly, recovery from the infection is accompanied by long-term transcriptional, epigenetic and functional rewiring of monocytes (also called trained immunity), inducing changes in the innate immune responses after COVID-19.

The identification of trained monocytes after recovery from SARS-CoV-2 is important at several levels. On one hand, this provides a more comprehensive understanding of the changes in immune responses after infection with COVID-19, demonstrating long-term adaptation not only in lymphocytes but also in myeloid cells. On the other hand, the discovery of these processes is also exciting for understanding the potential consequences of the disease. It is tempting to speculate that induction of trained immunity could contribute to the long-term protection against reinfection, and that this needs to be considered for the development of future vaccines. However, such enhanced responsiveness of myeloid cells may lead in some individuals to adverse hyperactivation, such as in multisystem inflammatory syndromes in adults (MIS-A) or children (MIS-C), or even in people with long-term symptoms after COVID10.

On October 19 2021 13:52 xM(Z wrote:
it's just JimmiC. he's talking past every article he quotes(even the last articles he quoted ... i don't think he knows what they refer to).

@Simberto - yes, https://www.nature.com/articles/s41556-021-00689-8
... the article is pretty technical but that is the gist of it.

Edit: and, if you want something even more technical https://www.nature.com/articles/s41590-020-0782-6

"The results strongly suggest that vaccination is important not only for individual protection, but also for reducing transmission, especially within families, which is a high-risk environment for transmission," says Peter Nordström, professor of geriatric medicine at Umeå University.

There is a vast body of research showing that vaccines strongly reduce the risk of COVID-19. However, less is known about the influence of vaccination on transmission of the virus in high-risk environments, such as within families. This is what researchers at Umeå University aimed to investigate in a new study.

In the study, the researchers found that there was a dose-response association between the number of immune individuals in each family and the risk of infection and hospitalization in non-immune family members. Specifically, non-immune family members had a 45 to 97 per cent lower risk of infection and hospitalization, as the number of immune family members increased.

The study is a nationwide, registry-based study of more than 1.8 million individuals from more than 800,000 families. The researchers combined registry data from the Public Health Agency of Sweden, the National Board of Health and Welfare, and from Statistics Sweden, which is the government agency that oversees statistical data. In the analysis, the researchers quantified the association between the number of family members with immunity against COVID-19 and the risk of infection and hospitalization in nonimmune individuals. The researchers accounted for differences in age, socioeconomic status, clustering within families, and several diagnoses previously identified as risk factors for COVID-19 in the Swedish population.

"It seems as if vaccination helps not only to reduce the individual's risk of becoming infected, but also to reduce transmission, which in turn minimizes not only the risk that more people become critically il, but also that new problematic variants emerge and start to take over. Consequently, ensuring that many people are vaccinated has implications on a local, national, and global scale," says Marcel Ballin, doctoral student in geriatric medicine at Umeå University and co-author of the study.

If antibody test results are interpreted incorrectly, there is a potential risk that people may take fewer precautions against SARS-CoV-2 exposure. Taking fewer steps to protect against SARS-CoV-2 can increase their risk of SARS-CoV-2 infection and may result in the increased spread of SARS-CoV-2.

Be aware that SARS-CoV-2 antibody tests help health care providers identify whether someone has antibodies to SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, indicating a prior infection with the virus. However, more research is needed to understand the meaning of a positive or negative antibody test, beyond the presence or absence of antibodies, including in people who received a COVID-19 vaccination, in people who have been exposed and have SARS-CoV-2 antibodies, and in people who are not fully vaccinated.

On October 19 2021 08:41 Magic Powers wrote:
It seems to me people are talking past each other. Antibody tests can have various purposes. If the purpose is to see how strong your immune response can be expected to be, then it's quite reliable. There have been studies done to figure this out, and the evidence is not perfect yet, but it does indicate that the test result correlates rather well with the level of immunity. However, if the purpose is to figure out whether or not you are infected, then it's considered less reliable than an antigen test or a PCR test.
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“After closing our restaurant, local regulators informed us that our restaurant Associates must actively intervene by demanding proof of vaccination and photo identification from every Customer, then act as enforcement personnel by barring entry for any Customers without the proper documentation,” read a statement from Wensinger.

“As a Company, In-N-Out Burger strongly believes in the highest form of customer service and to us that means serving all Customers who visit us and making all Customers feel welcome. We refuse to become the vaccination police for any government,” he continued.

...

Wensinger, however, described the order as "unreasonable, invasive, and unsafe to force our restaurant Associates to segregate Customers into those who may be served and those who may not, whether based on the documentation they carry, or any other reason."

"We fiercely disagree with any government dictate that forces a private company to discriminate against customers who choose to patronize their business. This is clear governmental overreach and is intrusive, improper, and offensive,” he wrote.

On October 20 2021 07:51 JimmiC wrote:


I get this to some degree, its now fair to ask a bunch of teens and minimum wage employees to deal with a bunch of beligernt ignorant people as a bouncer.

A better mechanism needs to found, not sure exactly what it is maybe bylaw officers, check often and hand oit massive fines or something.

Employer and other mandates can be managed much easier and will lower this issue as more people are vaccinated.