EPTCoronavirus and You - Page 335
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Any and all updates regarding the COVID-19 will need a source provided. Please do your part in helping us to keep this thread maintainable and under control. It is YOUR responsibility to fully read through the sources that you link, and you MUST provide a brief summary explaining what the source is about. Do not expect other people to do the work for you. Conspiracy theories and fear mongering will absolutely not be tolerated in this thread. Expect harsh mod actions if you try to incite fear needlessly. This is not a politics thread! You are allowed to post information regarding politics if it's related to the coronavirus, but do NOT discuss politics in here. Added a disclaimer on page 662. Many need to post better. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
On January 14 2021 12:21 JimmiC wrote: Thank you for posting. They were successful based on a lot of what you do not want and multiple times they talk about the governments swift and harsh measures. I wish we would have learned from our early mistakes like they did from their failings with SARS. There plan is not different from New Zealand or later Australia had (Aus had to get it down first before they could do the harsh travel bans and quarantines). Masks are also a big part of the Taiwan plan and they thought it was vital to have a big supply of quality masks for low prices. I'm sorry that happened to your dad, I have no idea how common that break down is in Austria. It is not common in most of the west unless they are overwhelmed. Which is why governments should be more like Taiwan. The good news is even if they tested and knew, nothing different would have happened, he would have been asked to isolate and if he got sick to go to the hospital, which my guess would have still been able to. It is great news he got over it and also that he stayed home so he did not contribute to the spread. Taiwan keeping their numbers so low from such harsh members allowing their system to not be overrun was a great strategy. It also appears that as people complained they found ways to appease them and still accomplish the heath goals. The prices they paid I'm sure worth it for the protection to their economy and society. The Taiwanese government has done things I wouldn't want in my country? What exactly would that be? They didn't do any lockdowns, most social gatherings are allowed, restaurants and gyms can stay open if they want to, etc. They've taken measures that I consider ethically questionable, but not outright immoral, like appropriating mask factories to increase mask production and meet demand. At least the owners receive compensation, which I consider a lot less draconian than the lockdown we're currently experiencing in my country. Taiwan has a strong net of communication. For example, when the government implements a policy, any policy, they can receive feedback from the people immediately. They've rolled back at least one unpopular policy a few months ago in response to public pressure. Or, police call self-quarantined people every day to check up on their status until the two weeks are over. There's no further tracking of individuals going on unless further infections are suspected, so there's no spying on people happening either. Is Taiwan perfect? No, of course not. But compared to what we have right now, I'll take what they're having. Far less draconian, many times more effective. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
When I read that Austria didn't close the borders after news of cases in Italy broke, I was furious. This virus was obviously spreading at an unusually fast rate and we'd already seen images from China of people randomly dropping to the ground. I may be an anarchist at heart, but I'm not stupid. I know total freedom is a utopia and not a valid idea. Anyway, that's besides the point. What I was trying to get at is that the concept of lockdowns can become a completely outdated one within our lifetime. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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r00ty
Germany1070 Posts
At the moment i'm calling the vaccination hotline every half hour for over 2 days now without success. I got through 2 times, only hearing a woman screaming that she can't understand me then hanging up on me after 15 minutes waiting in line. My father is 80 and had his second heart surgery last fall and has light dementia i want him vaccinated as soon as possible. This it's more than frustrating. Reportedly only 4000 of 70000 possible appointments have been made in my country (Hessen). In 2 days. What a fuck up. There also was a huge accident when they startet sending out teams to nursing homes. In one location, a genius doctor gave every patient the whole fucking bottle of the Pfizer/Biontech vaccine. All 5 doses. WELL DONE. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany7195 Posts
On January 14 2021 17:30 r00ty wrote: My local newspaper is reporting, there are apx. 35% less flu and gastrointestinal disease cases than previous years due to masks, social distancing and hygene in 2020 in Germany. Sexually transmitted diseases are basically the same though, which was unexpected. At the moment i'm calling the vaccination hotline every half hour for over 2 days now without success. I got through 2 times, only hearing a woman screaming that she can't understand me then hanging up on me after 15 minutes waiting in line. My father is 80 and had his second heart surgery last fall and has light dementia i want him vaccinated as soon as possible. This it's more than frustrating. Reportedly only 4000 of 70000 possible appointments have been made in my country (Hessen). In 2 days. What a fuck up. There also was a huge accident when they startet sending out teams to nursing homes. In one location, a genius doctor gave every patient the whole fucking bottle of the Pfizer/Biontech vaccine. All 5 doses. WELL DONE. You mean 6 doses... what the hell is this? Vaccine was done in November, got tested multiple times and bottled and stuff and NOW they say you can easily make 6 doses out of one bottle... geeez. Read an article about some huge vac center in Germany which had doses, staff and room for 7000 people a day but only 600 came. Doctors mostly stand around, bored out of their minds. Germany is about as effective as our internet speed when it comes to vaccinating... this is not acceptable. We can only hope our neighbours help us, because we are now officially a third world country | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22346 Posts
On January 14 2021 17:30 r00ty wrote: I can see there being a good amount of overlap between the people who don't take Covid seriously and those who don't take STD's seriously.My local newspaper is reporting, there are apx. 35% less flu and gastrointestinal disease cases than previous years due to masks, social distancing and hygene in 2020 in Germany. Sexually transmitted diseases are basically the same though, which was unexpected. At the moment i'm calling the vaccination hotline every half hour for over 2 days now without success. I got through 2 times, only hearing a woman screaming that she can't understand me then hanging up on me after 15 minutes waiting in line. My father is 80 and had his second heart surgery last fall and has light dementia i want him vaccinated as soon as possible. This it's more than frustrating. Reportedly only 4000 of 70000 possible appointments have been made in my country (Hessen). In 2 days. What a fuck up. There also was a huge accident when they startet sending out teams to nursing homes. In one location, a genius doctor gave every patient the whole fucking bottle of the Pfizer/Biontech vaccine. All 5 doses. WELL DONE. | ||
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Slydie
1935 Posts
It brings up some important philosophical questions. Is avoiding the deaths of the old and weak given too much importance, and what to do when a treatment is a significant risk in itself? Source in Norwegian: https://www.nrk.no/norge/legemiddelverket-knytter-13-dodsfall-til-bivirkninger-av-vaksinen-1.15327024 | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
https://gut.bmj.com/content/early/2021/01/04/gutjnl-2020-323020 https://www.med.cuhk.edu.hk/press-releases/40-of-hong-kong-people-show-gut-dysbiosis-comparable-to-that-of-covid-19-patients-cuhk-microbiome-immunity-formula-hastens-recovery-of-covid-19-patients-and-offers-hope-to-boost-immunity | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8860 Posts
On January 14 2021 22:21 Magic Powers wrote: Some evidence in recent studies suggests that a healthy gut flora can contribute to a better course of the disease. https://gut.bmj.com/content/early/2021/01/04/gutjnl-2020-323020 https://www.med.cuhk.edu.hk/press-releases/40-of-hong-kong-people-show-gut-dysbiosis-comparable-to-that-of-covid-19-patients-cuhk-microbiome-immunity-formula-hastens-recovery-of-covid-19-patients-and-offers-hope-to-boost-immunity isnt this the case for many illnesses already? not really surprising that good digestive health contributes to fighting covid better | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
On January 15 2021 01:34 evilfatsh1t wrote: isnt this the case for many illnesses already? not really surprising that good digestive health contributes to fighting covid better We know healthy people have a much higher survival rate, yes. People should therefore take proper care of themselves to reduce complications after an infection. What is currently unknown is the degree of impact from various health factors and how exactly that information can be used for treatment. To my knowledge no known treatments to covid-19 so far involve repairing the gut flora. "Significance of this study How might it impact on clinical practice in the foreseeable future? - These findings suggest that depletion of immunomodulatory gut microorganisms contributes to severe COVID-19 disease. - The dysbiotic gut microbiota that persists after disease resolution could be a factor in developing persistent symptoms and/or multisystem inflammation syndromes that occur in some patients after clearing the virus. - Bolstering of beneficial gut species depleted in COVID-19 could serve as a novel avenue to mitigate severe disease, underscoring importance of managing patients’ gut microbiota during and after COVID-19." | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22346 Posts
On January 15 2021 01:34 evilfatsh1t wrote: Yeah, probably basic 'healthy people have a better chance as with everything'.isnt this the case for many illnesses already? not really surprising that good digestive health contributes to fighting covid better | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
On January 15 2021 02:25 Gorsameth wrote: Yeah, probably basic 'healthy people have a better chance as with everything'. I mean, of course you're right. But the article from the second link states that "40% of Hong Kong People Show Gut Dysbiosis Comparable to that of COVID-19 Patients", which is a far greater percentage than the portion of people that would typically be considered to "be unhealthy". So a treatment specific to that could have a huge impact on the mortality rate. | ||
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
On January 15 2021 02:25 Gorsameth wrote: Yeah, probably basic 'healthy people have a better chance as with everything'. Kind of unrelated but this is what breaks my brain about the vitamin D research as a epidemiologist who studies medical treatments-we already know that everyone should have normal levels of vitamin D for any number of health reasons, why spend so much time and energy establishing if COVID is also a problem in the vitamin D deficient? Even if the studies could disentangle common causes of COVID infection and the outcome (for the most part, they utterly fail at this), they don't really teach us anything actionable for public health! Nobody's medical recommendation will change from "don't supplement your vitamin D" to "supplement your vitamin D" in the end based on such work. /end minor rant | ||
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
On January 14 2021 08:14 WombaT wrote: Sadly not early pandemic, things lagged quite a bit and precautions early doors were mostly on the assumption it primarily spread on surfaces. But yeah from then on we’ve been going with that. From what I gather it’s still a good deal more comfortable than proper medical grade masks, but I’m not grinning and bearing it I mean it isn’t even a particular inconvenience. I’ve went to light quite a few smokes on my breaks and I’ve forgotten I had my mask on and looked a right prat. We’re quite a moany lot in retail but truth be told mask wearing is rarely if ever something we moan about. The behaviour of the public in continually flouting any sensible Covid precautions yeah absolutely we complain incessantly about that, partly because mask wearing and distancing just isn’t a big deal for us to do whatsoever. To be honest the NHS is doing strange things during times of lockdown. No dentist appointments, no mental health help. You could even go online with that if ugency necessitates? I don't understand how these measures go hand in hand. Especially the mental health stuff. Even people that did cope no problem before do struggle. How can you leave strugging people alone? Must be the Tories' fault I guess. Though the dentist stuff I heard from Scotland.... idk. Scotland (Edinburgh) was a good place to live for a while but I'm explicitly happy to not be in the country right now. Though the hills... I do miss 'em | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26767 Posts
On January 15 2021 05:49 Artisreal wrote: To be honest the NHS is doing strange things during times of lockdown. No dentist appointments, no mental health help. You could even go online with that if ugency necessitates? I don't understand how these measures go hand in hand. Especially the mental health stuff. Even people that did cope no problem before do struggle. How can you leave strugging people alone? Must be the Tories' fault I guess. Though the dentist stuff I heard from Scotland.... idk. Scotland (Edinburgh) was a good place to live for a while but I'm explicitly happy to not be in the country right now. Though the hills... I do miss 'em *Shrugs* I mean years of Tory governments certainly don’t help. They are a conveniently shite lightning rod that lets everyone else off the hook. Mental health problems are, by and large hugely influenced by material conditions. Be it stress, anxiety loneliness, bad sleep routines, financial stresses boredom etc etc. Even for people who are normally very mentally healthy these all can take their toll. As it stands some people are getting absolutely fucked, it has to be someone though as if we open up we’re going to see a lot of elderly death. If I have to read another article about NHS heroes and their mental health I’m going to scream. Do something more about it then, give them a break to recharge, something practical. Even outside of the human element, when stress and anxiety levels and fatigue hit the roof, performance levels go out the window and that’s when mistakes get made. I would blame Tory cuts in mental health provisions only for failing people who fall through the cracks. My main rant is why so many people even get driven to anywhere near that place to begin with; and that’s a much more complex macro-cultural thing I guess. Hopefully some of the silver linings of Covid can be reframing at least part of what we value and what we expect our society to value. I’m not confident in that mind, but hey little anecdotal things here and there, little observations. I have a friend who confided that it was only post-Covid that she felt able to call in sick to work and be believed, where previously she would be feeling ill, then suffering panic attacks at the prospect of ringing in sick, then going in to work. We absolutely can have a better society, for everyone if we actually think and use these experiences to shape it that way. Tons we could take from it, I mean ultimately (most) people have locked, isolated, social distanced and all sorts for the guts of approaching a year now to some degree, for the greater good. We really can’t change a few things about society when things are back to normal, for the better? | ||
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pmh
1416 Posts
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