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Any and all updates regarding the COVID-19 will need a source provided. Please do your part in helping us to keep this thread maintainable and under control. It is YOUR responsibility to fully read through the sources that you link, and you MUST provide a brief summary explaining what the source is about. Do not expect other people to do the work for you. Conspiracy theories and fear mongering will absolutely not be tolerated in this thread. Expect harsh mod actions if you try to incite fear needlessly. This is not a politics thread! You are allowed to post information regarding politics if it's related to the coronavirus, but do NOT discuss politics in here. Added a disclaimer on page 662. Many need to post better. | ||
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SC-Shield
Bulgaria832 Posts
By the way, I'm curious to know if a sizeable number of infections could be contributed to coronavirus entering eyes. We only protect mouth and nose, but I never thought about eyes until now. Link: https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/31/health/covid-19-through-eyes-wellness-trnd/index.html We need research for sure.  | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15723 Posts
Are masks not well understood/adopted in France right now? It looks like France has some giant issue going on right now. Lots of parties? People not wearing masks in stores? I really just don't understand how France is going so horribly. In Oregon, the only thing that I think people are really doing wrong is being what I call "emotionally entitled", which I take as a catch all for people who basically take the perspective of "you still need to live your life". People saying grandma and the grandkids MUST all attend thanksgiving and things like that are what will continue to drive Oregon infection. Other than that, we are doing really well with masks being used all over the place. I am honestly just really sad thinking about how many grandparents are going to end up dying because teenagers without symptoms spent 5+ hours around grandparents. Its all about extent and time of exposure. Old people are going to get absolutely blasted. For what? Some dinner? Its ridiculous. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25875 Posts
On October 29 2020 07:46 Mohdoo wrote: My recent experience has been that boomers absolutely love to walk around with their noses hanging out of their masks. This behavior does not seem remotely common for any other age group. Are masks not well understood/adopted in France right now? It looks like France has some giant issue going on right now. Lots of parties? People not wearing masks in stores? I really just don't understand how France is going so horribly. In Oregon, the only thing that I think people are really doing wrong is being what I call "emotionally entitled", which I take as a catch all for people who basically take the perspective of "you still need to live your life". People saying grandma and the grandkids MUST all attend thanksgiving and things like that are what will continue to drive Oregon infection. Other than that, we are doing really well with masks being used all over the place. I am honestly just really sad thinking about how many grandparents are going to end up dying because teenagers without symptoms spent 5+ hours around grandparents. Its all about extent and time of exposure. Old people are going to get absolutely blasted. For what? Some dinner? Its ridiculous. Mask adherence is decent here, we’ve continued spiking as that’s improved, at least in my perception of the latter. Where are teenagers getting it from? Schools reopening seems 100% the culprit far as I can tell. Universities doing in-person teaching as well. Don’t have the exact numbers but through the summer in my workplace (our Walmart equivalent) absences due to Covid were pretty rare, so much so that a singular individual being off was the subject of gossip as to if it was Covid related. Came back after a week off a few weeks ago and something like 110 out of the 400ish staff were off either through precautionary isolation or having contracted Covid. And we employ a lot of students, I said at the time (in here I believe) that schools shouldn’t have been forced to reopen at full capacity, but our government mandated it. My high school, where my mother works and my sister attends had a pretty robust plan of staggered timetables, using the rooms freed up to spread classes into smaller groups that could be distanced etc. It’s a rather prestigious school, old and venerable but modern the facilities are not. Some of the premises are undergoing renovation and restoration so there’s absolutely no excess space for overflow and it’s basically small classrooms of 25+ students, over a thousand of them in the 11-18 bracket. Corridors are cramped as fuck too. Took all of a few days for the first positive test, people having to isolate (and teachers having to double their workload to teach classes in person and then again for everyone who had to isolate). My sister thru the latter end of last academic year thru the summer knew nobody in her circle with a positive Covid test, recently there’s been a slew of them. I mean, I do stress this is anecdotal and me reading between various lines. For all the arguments about kid’s development, I just don’t think governments are willing to close or reduce schooling capacity because it fulfils such a childcare role and cutting it will fuck so many people and they don’t particularly want to expose how tenuous many people’s situations are if that isn’t there. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Harris1st
Germany6980 Posts
On October 29 2020 05:12 cLutZ wrote: That's a silly statement because you could have an 100% asymptomatic household. No idea what you are argueing for or against  It's official, Germany (he or she) will shutdown everything but schools and work for at least 2, maximum 4 weeks starting on Monday. Reevaluation on 11.11 | ||
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Simberto
Germany11588 Posts
On October 29 2020 21:54 Harris1st wrote: No idea what you are argueing for or against It's official, Germany (he or she) will shutdown everything but schools and work for at least 2, maximum 4 weeks starting on Monday. Reevaluation on 11.11 They are arguing against the simplicistic idea that you can simply quarantine the infected for longer. Because if that were possible, we could do an even simpler thing and only quarantine the infected. If we quarantine all infected for 2 weeks simultaneously, the pandemic is over. The problem is that you often do not know who is infected and who isn't. That is the perfidious thing about the pandemic. It isn't obvious who is carrying the virus. Some people get symptoms, some don't. But the people without symptoms can still spread it. | ||
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TheDeviant
France13 Posts
In particular dynamics are pretty much similar in all countries with differences in numbers per capita due to delays in the start of the second wave. Germany in that regard is once again doing great as it is already taking strong measures while still being at a comparatively much lower level of virus circulation. Spain kind of broke their dynamics early (it was the country that was ahead of all others regarding second wave in Europe) with lockdowns that plateaued the dynamics, but recently it started increasing again however significantly more slowly than in other European countries. Slower dynamics is a good news but the fact that it is increasing again is quite worrying regarding the relative efficiency of the measures. And it starts rising again from relatively high levels. Future will tell... (In the plots below, selection of few countries to illustrate. The line is broken for Switzerland because they removed deaths from their record this week but they are currently just below Slovakia in terms of deaths per capita) ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/WLztru1.png) | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6980 Posts
On October 29 2020 23:33 TheDeviant wrote: About the situation in France, it is basically at the same level and dynamics as anywhere else in Europe when you do not look at absolute numbers (France is rather populated compared to many other European countries which automatically produces larger numbers) but at per capita numbers. In particular dynamics are pretty much similar in all countries with differences in numbers per capita due to delays in the start of the second wave. Germany in that regard is once again doing great as it is already taking strong measures while still being at a comparatively much lower level of virus circulation. Spain kind of broke their dynamics early (it was the country that was ahead of all others regarding second wave in Europe) with lockdowns that plateaued the dynamics, but recently it started increasing again however significantly more slowly than in other European countries. Slower dynamics is a good news but the fact that it is increasing again is quite worrying regarding the relative efficiency of the measures. And it starts rising again from relatively high levels. Future will tell... (In the plots below, selection of few countries to illustrate. The line is broken for Switzerland because they removed deaths from their record this week but they are currently just below Slovakia in terms of deaths per capita) Looks like PISA test, only this time I'm happy that we're on the lower end of the charts  On October 29 2020 22:58 Simberto wrote: They are arguing against the simplicistic idea that you can simply quarantine the infected for longer. Because if that were possible, we could do an even simpler thing and only quarantine the infected. If we quarantine all infected for 2 weeks simultaneously, the pandemic is over. The problem is that you often do not know who is infected and who isn't. That is the perfidious thing about the pandemic. It isn't obvious who is carrying the virus. Some people get symptoms, some don't. But the people without symptoms can still spread it. Makes sense. But realistically, what are the chances of someone beeing asymptomatic and only infecting someone else in the same household in quarantine after a longer time, say one week? And then this person beeing asymptomatic as well. In any case, we can stop theorizing and just wait until mid November and see how the numbers are doing I guess | ||
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Lmui
Canada6214 Posts
Asian countries (Taiwan, China, Vietnam, SK, Japan etc.) all have very low covid levels, and very controlled spread since the beginning. In my city's metro area (Metro Vancouver), we have a city that has a very large asian population (~54% chinese descent, 60+% immigrants). ![[image loading]](https://images.glaciermedia.ca/polopoly_fs/1.24214771.1601747428!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_804/richmond-covid-numbers-sept-24-oct-1.jpg) https://www.richmond-news.com/news/16-new-covid-19-cases-in-richmond-1.24214770 Richmond has a population of ~215k, Vancouver ~675k, FS around the 215-300k mark depending on how large that area really is, and a similar guesstimate for the FN area. There's a stark difference in cases between regions and I'd say the two regions have quite similar densities in most cases. Just different cultural norms, respect for distancing and adherence to measures that control covid I guess. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On October 30 2020 00:53 Harris1st wrote: Looks like PISA test, only this time I'm happy that we're on the lower end of the charts Makes sense. But realistically, what are the chances of someone beeing asymptomatic and only infecting someone else in the same household in quarantine after a longer time, say one week? And then this person beeing asymptomatic as well. In any case, we can stop theorizing and just wait until mid November and see how the numbers are doing I guess Probably quite high when you look at compliance levels with initial stay at home orders for the first few weeks. Basically, it appears that its not uncommon for a family of five to be able to perpetuate the virus for at least 5-6 weeks. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23412 Posts
On October 30 2020 01:09 Lmui wrote: It's just a cultural thing I guess that's driving the growth. Asian countries (Taiwan, China, Vietnam, SK, Japan etc.) all have very low covid levels, and very controlled spread since the beginning. + Show Spoiler + In my city's metro area (Metro Vancouver), we have a city that has a very large asian population (~54% chinese descent, 60+% immigrants). https://www.richmond-news.com/news/16-new-covid-19-cases-in-richmond-1.24214770 Richmond has a population of ~215k, Vancouver ~675k, FS around the 215-300k mark depending on how large that area really is, and a similar guesstimate for the FN area. There's a stark difference in cases between regions and I'd say the two regions have quite similar densities in most cases. Just different cultural norms, respect for distancing and adherence to measures that control covid I guess Collectivism has shown to be a superior countermeasure to covid than individualism in my view. That speaks to both the economic and humanitarian aspects. The takeaway for me is that without moving western society toward a more collectivist perspective, a more deadly virus will eventually ravage us (more than covid 19 has). | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25875 Posts
On October 30 2020 06:49 GreenHorizons wrote: Collectivism has shown to be a superior countermeasure to covid than individualism in my view. That speaks to both the economic and humanitarian aspects. The takeaway for me is that without moving western society toward a more collectivist perspective, a more deadly virus will eventually ravage us (more than covid 19 has). I suppose the only plus point if there is some even worse pandemic is that if it happens near enough in the future the Covid experience should help as a dry run if you will. Not too confident in that mind. Individualism has patently failed here, be it in terms of structures or cultural norms. I can’t blame individuals for not adhering to certain things if they are being forced to choose between not making rent or dragging themselves to work instead of isolating and the likes. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States23412 Posts
On October 30 2020 23:51 LegalLord wrote: Blink and you’ll miss it, but global weekly deaths are as high as they’ve been since April, in the first big wave. Infection rates are of course much higher due to increased testing. We’re only a month into prime infection season, and all indications are that it only gets much worse from here. Silver lining is that we have to at least be slightly closer to herd immunity than we think. No way we weren't missing a LOT of cases back in April when many countries weren't even testing asymptomatic people. | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
Herd Immunity takes something like 60% (I've read anywhere from 40-80%) and I think the UK only reached 6% after the first wave, and that's the only place where I've read that it got studied. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States23412 Posts
On October 31 2020 00:01 Nevuk wrote: We're closer, but not close at all. Herd Immunity takes something like 60% (I've read anywhere from 40-80%) and I think the UK only reached 6% after the first wave, and that's the only place where I've read that it got studied. I was definitely being sardonic | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States23412 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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