EPTCoronavirus and You - Page 240
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Any and all updates regarding the COVID-19 will need a source provided. Please do your part in helping us to keep this thread maintainable and under control. It is YOUR responsibility to fully read through the sources that you link, and you MUST provide a brief summary explaining what the source is about. Do not expect other people to do the work for you. Conspiracy theories and fear mongering will absolutely not be tolerated in this thread. Expect harsh mod actions if you try to incite fear needlessly. This is not a politics thread! You are allowed to post information regarding politics if it's related to the coronavirus, but do NOT discuss politics in here. Added a disclaimer on page 662. Many need to post better. | ||
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Geisterkarle
Germany3257 Posts
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28874 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27234 Posts
On August 22 2020 07:25 Liquid`Drone wrote: It's definitely challenging and in many subjects and with many teachers, the learning output is clearly lower. But especially for the 'socializing is arguably the most important purpose of school besides learning to read well'-age group, it's a fine compromise, and I've seen good teachers make it work fairly well. Very much age dependent as you say. I’d personally be more worried for my youngling missing out on socialising than too much learning at this age. He’s only 7 and his reading improved markedly through full lockdown, hard to gauge him on the maths curve. In his case he has videogames and navigating menus and the text-based world of Pokemon kind of incentivised him there. I mean as with other children born late in the academic year he was running at quite a big developmental deficit when he first entered school, but as that’s normal folks don’t really have a problem with it. Makes me pretty sanguine about a potential gap in the learning experience, granted at least here we’re pushing for full normality. I’m alas a bit critical of education here, my paternal side mostly being teachers exasperated through teaching useless stuff in a boring manner merely for exams, so I’m a bit biased :p | ||
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thePunGun
598 Posts
Even though there was no further information given whether she was in immunocompromised, it's still another sad reminder that kids are not as free from harm as people thought.  | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
Guess the country has for whatever reason agreed to just take a big fat L on this one. Tomorrow we're going to hit 180k dead - thinking another 180k preventable deaths is in the cards before year-end 2021 because of some really stunted priorities. The first containment effort failed and no one has the patience for a second one, so more death is all but inevitable. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22490 Posts
On August 22 2020 19:11 cLutZ wrote: its lower in deaths, but higher in number of cases.This peak is in no respect worse than the first one. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46243 Posts
On August 21 2020 22:54 Dark_Chill wrote: Could classes just be taught outdoors? Bring a white board outside with a stand and have the kids bring their exercise books with a blanket to sit on the grass. Maybe only go inside when it's raining or something. Temperature, weather conditions, outdoor allergies (pollen, bees, etc.), additional distractions, not having access to classroom materials, and a lack of technology / spotty internet connection are just some of the reasons why outdoor classes would be, at best, a fun novelty. It definitely can't be the norm though, in most areas. Most schools have generally moved away from simply grinding out practice problems in a workbook, and instead use other resources like manipulatives and interactive technology to keep kids more engaged and to teach them more effectively. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
On August 22 2020 19:11 cLutZ wrote: This peak is in no respect worse than the first one. Do you consider it a good, happy number of deaths, or is the current infection & death load a problem? | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On August 23 2020 00:19 LegalLord wrote: Do you consider it a good, happy number of deaths, or is the current infection & death load a problem? Overall I consider our date rate too high, but that is largely driven by the early states like NY/NJ which have worse outcomes than any European country by 2x+. Other than those states I think most places have performed as well as they can given political restraints. One major example is how our border states had significant spread coming in from Mexico. Another thing was the mass protests/riots causing spread (the people who try to debunk this don't understand statistics, because where the marches were held in highest numbers were also places that had been hit early, so they had less room to spike, but you can see such spikes if you look at intra-county data). There is no happy level of pandemic deaths, but the question is what would they look like in the case of good management, and for the last few months that is what it has looked like. User was warned for this post. | ||
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StalkerTL
212 Posts
Its trending down but its still a hideous and embarrassing situation. As for the claim that I had an axe to grind, no shit I do. Would any reasonable American not be pissed at the current situation in the USA and how our leaders and president still try to downplay the situation and attempt to push whatever miracle solution appears on Twitter? | ||
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Lemartes
Austria57 Posts
I am now at a stage were I believe them, even though these graphs look crazy. I read this interesting article from the new yorker: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/08/17/how-china-controlled-the-coronavirus. We could have never done this and I don´t want to even start to think about what these measures have done to the mental health of a big chunk of the Chinese population... But, while the world struggles to contain this Virus and falls on its head time and time again, the country we all tried to shut off in January beat us to it. Will this all end with Chinese world domination (if that has´nt happened before already)? | ||
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Garbels
Austria653 Posts
On August 23 2020 07:17 cLutZ wrote: Overall I consider our date rate too high, but that is largely driven by the early states like NY/NJ which have worse outcomes than any European country by 2x+. Other than those states I think most places have performed as well as they can given political restraints. One major example is how our border states had significant spread coming in from Mexico. Another thing was the mass protests/riots causing spread (the people who try to debunk this don't understand statistics, because where the marches were held in highest numbers were also places that had been hit early, so they had less room to spike, but you can see such spikes if you look at intra-county data). There is no happy level of pandemic deaths, but the question is what would they look like in the case of good management, and for the last few months that is what it has looked like. Please do back your claims up with data. The BLM thing seems very hard to show but im interested in the border claim as well. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
On August 23 2020 07:17 cLutZ wrote: Overall I consider our date rate too high, but that is largely driven by the early states like NY/NJ which have worse outcomes than any European country by 2x+. Other than those states I think most places have performed as well as they can given political restraints. One major example is how our border states had significant spread coming in from Mexico. Another thing was the mass protests/riots causing spread (the people who try to debunk this don't understand statistics, because where the marches were held in highest numbers were also places that had been hit early, so they had less room to spike, but you can see such spikes if you look at intra-county data). There is no happy level of pandemic deaths, but the question is what would they look like in the case of good management, and for the last few months that is what it has looked like. This is a lot of straight up misinformation. I am really surprised TL is letting a post like this remain up. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
On August 23 2020 17:49 Lemartes wrote: For the first time since maybe May I was looking at China again: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/china/ I am now at a stage were I believe them, even though these graphs look crazy. I read this interesting article from the new yorker: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/08/17/how-china-controlled-the-coronavirus. We could have never done this and I don´t want to even start to think about what these measures have done to the mental health of a big chunk of the Chinese population... But, while the world struggles to contain this Virus and falls on its head time and time again, the country we all tried to shut off in January beat us to it. Will this all end with Chinese world domination (if that has´nt happened before already)? It looks more "least bad" than "really good" for China on this front, since they were doing very well indeed from a pre-plague world with free trade. They certainly do deserve some merit points for being successful at bringing things under control in very rapid pace, which shows a greater degree of competence than countries such as the US have shown. As for the mental health aspect: two months of martial law, with a very justified reason for its implementation, is definitely less harmful than a year and a half of half-hearted measures with death and post-disease complications all around. This American pseudo-lockdown is absolutely worse than if we had been able to just nip it in the bud quickly like China, and then quietly pick up the pieces of a damaged economy for the next few months. Uncertainty is a real killer for mental health, and the "good management" the US has offered gives a lot of uncertainty indeed. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On August 23 2020 16:33 StalkerTL wrote: The situation in places like Florida, California, Texas and Arizona aren't examples of good management. They're textbook examples of states making obvious mistakes seen everywhere else in the world months after everyone else had already made these mistakes. Its trending down but its still a hideous and embarrassing situation. As for the claim that I had an axe to grind, no shit I do. Would any reasonable American not be pissed at the current situation in the USA and how our leaders and president still try to downplay the situation and attempt to push whatever miracle solution appears on Twitter? What are the obvious mistakes. They had three different policies. How could they all have made obvious mistakes. Your claim (like most people's claims here) of "obvious mistakes" is unsourced. Thus, again I face a selective demand for rigor. Oh well, I will summit that anyways. On August 23 2020 19:29 Garbels wrote: Please do back your claims up with data. Inclduding data that those measures work not only short term, but long term. The BLM thing seems very hard to show but im interested in the border claim as well. Check out these timelines. They line up reasonably well. Of course, its impossible to show true causality for BLM. The paper that people rely on to say BLM protests didn't spread the virus doesn't actually claim that. Instead what it claims is "Using anonymous cell phone trackingdata from SafeGraph, Inc., as well as data on the local prevalence of COVID-19 from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, we demonstrate that cities which had protests saw a net increase in social distancing behavior for the overall population relative to cities that did not." In other words, due to fear of the riots/protests closing down business, the rest of the population essentially engaged in near-perfect lockdown. If you were able to maintain that level of lockdown without protests you'd basically be able to achieve the results that many people wish lockdowns had. See also border problems. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27234 Posts
On August 23 2020 17:49 Lemartes wrote: For the first time since maybe May I was looking at China again: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/china/ I am now at a stage were I believe them, even though these graphs look crazy. I read this interesting article from the new yorker: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/08/17/how-china-controlled-the-coronavirus. We could have never done this and I don´t want to even start to think about what these measures have done to the mental health of a big chunk of the Chinese population... But, while the world struggles to contain this Virus and falls on its head time and time again, the country we all tried to shut off in January beat us to it. Will this all end with Chinese world domination (if that has´nt happened before already)? Pretty interesting read thus far. Haven’t quite finished. The mental health aspect is interesting to ponder. There are certain almost universal aspects to it, social isolation being one. A lot of other mental health problems are very tied to how one’s one experienced dovetail with one’s own cultural background and expectations both on society and society’s expectations on you. I don’t know enough about these rather complex interactions to speculate much, especially in the Chinese case. There seems to be quite a divergence in tolerance and adherence to lockdown measures across the world, which would seem to indicate there’s quite a variation in the threshold of what different populations are able to tolerate even in the short term. | ||
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StalkerTL
212 Posts
On August 24 2020 04:49 cLutZ wrote: What are the obvious mistakes. They had three different policies. How could they all have made obvious mistakes. Your claim (like most people's claims here) of "obvious mistakes" is unsourced. Thus, again I face a selective demand for rigor. Oh well, I will summit that anyways. All states attempted to resume reopening indoor hospitality, ignoring advice of just about everyone even their own health departments who wanted to slow roll reopening. To the surprise of no one following the cries for reopening, businesses in the US not only pushed governors to reopen but had influence on the rules and regulations. The surge in the South (and SoCal) is largely tied to an obsession with reopening the tourism and hospitality industry as soon as possible, if we remember the timeline a lot of states ramped up reopening the minute the curve looked like it was being flattened. Only that we had states become inundated with cases. Same deal with shit like reopening schools. People are using children as cover but I want the same people show the same amount of energy when the government cuts funding to child services that benefit disadvantaged children. Except the same people do not because it was never about the children but reopening the state funded child care centre that are American schools. There’s a clear disregard for human life if it will interfere with the economy. There’s still a general refusal that in this moment of time we cannot have hospitality operate as it current is, things like encouraging tourism in a time like this is obviously pants on head stupid but a couple states and even federal senators have seriously thought about the idea. | ||
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