EPTCoronavirus and You - Page 186
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Any and all updates regarding the COVID-19 will need a source provided. Please do your part in helping us to keep this thread maintainable and under control. It is YOUR responsibility to fully read through the sources that you link, and you MUST provide a brief summary explaining what the source is about. Do not expect other people to do the work for you. Conspiracy theories and fear mongering will absolutely not be tolerated in this thread. Expect harsh mod actions if you try to incite fear needlessly. This is not a politics thread! You are allowed to post information regarding politics if it's related to the coronavirus, but do NOT discuss politics in here. Added a disclaimer on page 662. Many need to post better. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Simberto
Germany11817 Posts
On June 27 2020 05:21 JimmiC wrote: The Plexiglas might work, but I would assume it would have the similar issue to the face shield. They don't have it in the elementary but stores around are now selling them pretty inexpensively, assuming it would provide enough safety. All depends on how much plexiglas you use. If she is basically in a separate room, it is definitively safe. I don't know how much plexiglas is the minimum necessary for reasonable safety, though. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
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Manifesto7
Osaka27173 Posts
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Elroi
Sweden5600 Posts
On June 27 2020 05:35 JimmiC wrote: The good news is we have over two months until school starts and with how much our knowledge has already grown we should know by then, I hope! Young children hardly ever spread covid 19, so I dont think you need to worry about that. The closing of schools for young children was never recomended by the scientists in the first place (at least not in Scandinavia) but a decision taken by the politicians. Coworkers/parents could be dangerous though. | ||
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Geisterkarle
Germany3257 Posts
On June 27 2020 16:26 Manifesto7 wrote: Not to judge, what was the thought process in vacationing in Florida right now? I’m in a country with almost no COVID, and I still don’t go to the mall. Just curious as to another perspective. "hot weather, everything better"!? I'm not sure if you meant this "other perspective" about malls, but I will treat it as such  and answer about that:I definitely would go to malls, but must admit, I wasn't there since corona started! But it is just that I don't need anything from there right now! I'm very rarely shopping! I go to the supermarket three times a week if that makes it "better"  | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22306 Posts
On June 27 2020 16:26 Manifesto7 wrote: Because your a reasonable person that sees a global pandemic and reacts accordingly.Not to judge, what was the thought process in vacationing in Florida right now? I’m in a country with almost no COVID, and I still don’t go to the mall. Just curious as to another perspective. The people going for a vacation in Florida right now are not reasonable people, they live in a different reality. | ||
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Slydie
1935 Posts
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries Even a country like Iran, which also opened up too early and does not have the 2nd wave completely under control, is doing MUCH better than the US. The US is currently ranking 9th in deaths per capita and has more cases per capita than every European country except some micro states. I can't understand how it got to this point over there, especially since so many countries have already delivered blueprints of how do deal with this virus very effectively (Taiwan, South Korea, Greece and others.) As much as I absolutely hated some of the responses in Spain, at least they got something right, like stopping domestic travel so it never got a foothold in most of the country, and the long and hard lockdown did pretty much stop new infections and bought time to get the healthcare system ready with a good testing capacity, good routines and enough protective equipment. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11817 Posts
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farvacola
United States18857 Posts
On June 27 2020 19:31 Simberto wrote: It is very easy to understand how it got that bad in the US. The reasons are political, though. That’s correct, we have basically no cohesive federal leadership, so outcomes are state by state gambles so far, and even the states that have good rules are seeing spikes given that basics like mask wearing in enclosed spaces are political objects. | ||
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Slydie
1935 Posts
On June 27 2020 19:35 farvacola wrote: That’s correct, we have basically no cohesive federal leadership, so outcomes are state by state gambles so far, and even the states that have good rules are seeing spikes given that basics like mask wearing in enclosed spaces are political objects. Masks have become a political symbol, but I have to stress that they are very far from the most important tool to stop the pandemic. "Blame the non-mask users" is just silly IMO, seeing how countires like Denmark and Norway have dealt with the virus very well without ever having to recommend them to the general public, maybe except on airplanes. Even Sweden which was bashed for their relaxed approach has less cases per capita than the US. We could probably discuss facemasks for eternity, but there must be several other reasons for the failure: Church services? Not closing bars and restarurants? Locking down too late and opening too early? No overall strategy for hygine? Too much movement within the country? Too little testing? Too many home parties? Problems with the healthcare system? Demonstrations? For me it is not obvious at all! | ||
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Simberto
Germany11817 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45762 Posts
On June 27 2020 20:18 Slydie wrote: Masks have become a political symbol, but I have to stress that they are very far from the most important tool to stop the pandemic. "Blame the non-mask users" is just silly IMO, seeing how countires like Denmark and Norway have dealt with the virus very well without ever having to recommend them to the general public, maybe except on airplanes. Even Sweden which was bashed for their relaxed approach has less cases per capita than the US. We could probably discuss facemasks for eternity, but there must be several other reasons for the failure: Church services? Not closing bars and restarurants? Locking down too late and opening too early? No overall strategy for hygine? Too much movement within the country? Too little testing? Too many home parties? Problems with the healthcare system? Demonstrations? For me it is not obvious at all! What I've found is that *not wearing a mask* has become a political symbol. Something about freedom and/or Communism and/or the Constitution, etc. Edit: In the United States. | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28790 Posts
On June 27 2020 16:48 Elroi wrote: Young children hardly ever spread covid 19, so I dont think you need to worry about that. The closing of schools for young children was never recomended by the scientists in the first place (at least not in Scandinavia) but a decision taken by the politicians. Coworkers/parents could be dangerous though. The thing about the closing of the schools is that yeah, that itself isn't an important factor in spreading the disease, however, schools closing down was something that really made everybody understand how serious it was. In Trondheim I remember the early days well; at first, most people were going about their lives in a fairly ordinary manner, buses being packed, people hanging out and partying. Then schools closed down, and the day after, it was a ghost town for more than a month. (Was like 1 1/2 months with 0 social interaction for me and pretty much everybody I know. ) Meanwhile we saw pictures from Sweden where it seemed like this period never happened. So even though the actual policy difference between Norway and Sweden wasn't that big (schools closing is one of them, and that one has indeed been shown to be unimportant, by itself), I think schools closing made Norwegians consider it more seriously from the get-go. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22306 Posts
On June 27 2020 20:18 Slydie wrote: I mean, they did all those things you mention and more.Masks have become a political symbol, but I have to stress that they are very far from the most important tool to stop the pandemic. "Blame the non-mask users" is just silly IMO, seeing how countires like Denmark and Norway have dealt with the virus very well without ever having to recommend them to the general public, maybe except on airplanes. Even Sweden which was bashed for their relaxed approach has less cases per capita than the US. We could probably discuss facemasks for eternity, but there must be several other reasons for the failure: Church services? Not closing bars and restarurants? Locking down too late and opening too early? No overall strategy for hygine? Too much movement within the country? Too little testing? Too many home parties? Problems with the healthcare system? Demonstrations? For me it is not obvious at all! Some places that had some form of lockdown exempted Church services, or they strait up ignore it. Most locked down to late and re-opened to soon. There was overall strategy at all in the US, largely because of political reasons, aka Trump. ect, ect. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22306 Posts
On June 27 2020 20:35 Liquid`Drone wrote: Its also a knock-on effect. If schools close parents need to take care of their children so they have to stay home as well.The thing about the closing of the schools is that yeah, that itself isn't an important factor in spreading the disease, however, schools closing down was something that really made everybody understand how serious it was. In Trondheim I remember the early days well; at first, most people were going about their lives in a fairly ordinary manner, buses being packed, people hanging out and partying. Then schools closed down, and the day after, it was a ghost town for more than a month. (Was like 1 1/2 months with 0 social interaction for me and pretty much everybody I know. ) Meanwhile we saw pictures from Sweden where it seemed like this period never happened. So even though the actual policy difference between Norway and Sweden wasn't that big (schools closing is one of them, and that one has indeed been shown to be unimportant, by itself), I think schools closing made Norwegians consider it more seriously from the get-go. (which is why daycare's in the Netherlands stayed open for children who's parents had critical jobs) | ||
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Slydie
1935 Posts
On June 27 2020 20:27 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: What I've found is that *not wearing a mask* has become a political symbol. Something about freedom and/or Communism and/or the Constitution, etc. Edit: In the United States. No, it works both ways. In Spain, the regional leaders unanimously demanded strickter facemask rules, and the central government backed off their previous stance that distancing was more imporntant. We now have a situation where people relax more and more about distnce, but keep their masks on in situations where it makes no sense whatsoever. I even saw 2 older ladies French kiss eachoter with their masks on. The only places I know where it is not political is in Asia, where people have no problem wearing them, and in Scandinavia, where practically noone wears them. Everywhere else, you will make a stance: "I wear this for you", "I am responsible for the communtity" etc. are powerful messages, and covering your face is quite a statement: Think about the prevous raging debates about female muslim facewear, put in place to stop adultery, rapes and sexual harassment. This weekend will be very scary in Spain, though: it is the first one whith no restrictions of travel between provinces, so everybody has been craving to travel around to see their friends and relatives. You can put facemasks on in clothes shops all you want, but it does not matter if the real danger is a weekend sleepover at your auntie's,and bringing the virus to your household. There should be a spike in cases coming out of this, but the level of new infections has been so low now for a while, so I hope it will be manageable. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45762 Posts
On June 27 2020 20:45 Slydie wrote: No, it works both ways. In Spain, the regional leaders unanimously demanded strickter facemask rules, and the central government backed off their previous stance that distancing was more imporntant. We now have a situation where people relax more and more about distnce, but keep their masks on in situations where it makes no sense whatsoever. I even saw 2 older ladies French kiss eachoter with their masks on. The only places I know where it is not political is in Asia, where people have no problem wearing them, and in Scandinavia, where practically noone wears them. Everywhere else, you will make a stance: "I wear this for you", "I am responsible for the communtity" etc. are powerful messages, and covering your face is quite a statement: Think about the prevous raging debates about female muslim facewear, put in place to stop adultery, rapes and sexual harassment. This weekend will be very scary in Spain, though: it is the first one whith no restrictions of travel between provinces, so everybody has been craving to travel around to see their friends and relatives. You can put facemasks on in clothes shops all you want, but it does not matter if the real danger is a weekend sleepover at your auntie's,and bringing the virus to your household. There should be a spike in cases coming out of this, but the level of new infections has been so low now for a while, so I hope it will be manageable. It's unfortunate you've had to experience it becoming overly political instead of it just being about health issues. It's interesting to me that some people are presuming that social distancing and wearing a mask need to be mutually exclusive. That's like choosing a car with seat belts or choosing a car with air bags, but refusing to consider that both can be helpful in certain situations (especially when needing to go out in public places). Best of luck with Spain reopening; I guess you'll find out in about 2-4 weeks if there's solid evidence for a spike. | ||
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Slydie
1935 Posts
On June 27 2020 20:59 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: It's unfortunate you've had to experience it becoming overly political instead of it just being about health issues. It's interesting to me that some people are presuming that social distancing and wearing a mask need to be mutually exclusive. That's like choosing a car with seat belts or choosing a car with air bags, but refusing to consider that both can be helpful in certain situations (especially when needing to go out in public places). Best of luck with Spain reopening; I guess you'll find out in about 2-4 weeks if there's solid evidence for a spike. In Spain, the normal social distance is very close, as opposed to Norway, and social habits are very hard to break. There are also some very hazardous ways of sharing food and beverage in Spain, like a whole party eating directly from big paella pans and drinking from the same big bucket with a straw, which should probably change because of this. Opening the restaurants and bars (with precautions) have not had as much impact as feared, so it could lifting the travel restrictions could go well, but opening up the social circles could change the game. Also, don't get me wrong. I wear my masks in stores, at work and in other situations where it is required, but I do not think it makes any difference; I generally DO keep my distances, the number of new infections in my area is low, I am asympthomatic, I have done a fairly recent negative test and not having been close to anyone with the virus as I know of. | ||
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