EPTCoronavirus and You - Page 118
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Any and all updates regarding the COVID-19 will need a source provided. Please do your part in helping us to keep this thread maintainable and under control. It is YOUR responsibility to fully read through the sources that you link, and you MUST provide a brief summary explaining what the source is about. Do not expect other people to do the work for you. Conspiracy theories and fear mongering will absolutely not be tolerated in this thread. Expect harsh mod actions if you try to incite fear needlessly. This is not a politics thread! You are allowed to post information regarding politics if it's related to the coronavirus, but do NOT discuss politics in here. Added a disclaimer on page 662. Many need to post better. | ||
Firebolt145
Lalalaland34500 Posts
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Vivax
22152 Posts
Yeah disregard, was some late night bs I thought up erroneously thinking about the usefulness of masks. Btw nice paper here (regarding the path the virus took, more or less): https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/04/07/2004999117 And this: In another case, a man from Ontario had traveled from Wuhan in central China to Guangdong in southern China and then returned to Canada, where he fell ill and was conclusively diagnosed with coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) on 27 January 2020. Means governments outside China likely knew way in advance of the lockdowns. | ||
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mahrgell
Germany3943 Posts
On April 12 2020 14:20 Sermokala wrote: You can ban business's from selling wildlife meat and regulate the hunting of wildlife in the areas it comes up. Chronic wasting disease is a potentially serious issue in deer hunting in the midwest but is constantly monitored and is well regulated alongside deer seasons in the various state departments of natural resources. It would be one thing if this was the first plague that came from bats from China. This is at least the third they knew this would happen and they did nothing to stop it from happening. People who support china at this point are either carrying water for them or are wildly misinformed on wet markets. Spanish flu and swine flu jumped over from pigs to humans. I hope you also such a strong supporter of the abolishment of eating pigs. | ||
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thePunGun
598 Posts
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On April 12 2020 20:35 mahrgell wrote: Spanish flu and swine flu jumped over from pigs to humans. I hope you also such a strong supporter of the abolishment of eating pigs. You don't need to stop eating them. You just need to prevent the spread of the disease at the source. See avian flu outbreak in South Carolina's turkey in the past week here in the US. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14077 Posts
On April 12 2020 20:35 mahrgell wrote: Spanish flu and swine flu jumped over from pigs to humans. I hope you also such a strong supporter of the abolishment of eating pigs. And these were controlled and regulated just like diseases from chickens in America. Wild animals in Wuhan wet markets are not in any way. | ||
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Slydie
1929 Posts
On April 13 2020 00:14 Sermokala wrote: And these were controlled and regulated just like diseases from chickens in America. Wild animals in Wuhan wet markets are not in any way. Yes, still not banning selling wild animals in the the middle of big cities after 2 serious virus outbreaks is completely outrageous. Those "medical" uses must be extremely important to the Chinese, but international pressure should get rid of this practice very soon! | ||
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Emnjay808
United States10665 Posts
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
We should be aware that the CCP's propaganda machine is in high gear on this, and is doing everything it can to muddy the waters. For example, the Guardian is reporting that papers from Chinese universities on the source of the outbreak seem to be required to be vetted by a government agency before submission to international journals. With the recent purge of western journalists, and the general situation in Wuhan, this is impossible to verify but very consistent with the CCP's switch to spreading misinformation in order to deflect responsibilty for the outbreak. | ||
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aseq
Netherlands3993 Posts
I don't think pointing fingers helps anyone though. If one person caught the virus from a bat, then it's not unthinkable this could happen outside China as well (by a different way than eating it). | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18195 Posts
On April 13 2020 08:28 aseq wrote: They seemed to be trying alright, but I don't think it caught on very well. I don't think just spreading rumors is enough to make people doubt it originated in China, they're going to have to come up with more than that: https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/13/asia/china-coronavirus-us-lijian-zhao-intl-hnk/index.html I don't think pointing fingers helps anyone though. If one person caught the virus from a bat, then it's not unthinkable this could happen outside China as well (by a different way than eating it). Could it happen? Sure. But outside of this type of market, bats, pigs, (pangolins), monkeys, and humans are far far far less likely to be in close contact with one another. In fact, if you don't actively try, it's pretty hard to get within spitting distance of most bats. They are shy, nocturnal and fly. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26225 Posts
Not to say China doesn’t need to get its shit together in areas but if this had been something that came from standard livestock I don’t think people would be saying let’s outlaw that practice. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14077 Posts
On April 13 2020 09:30 Wombat_NI wrote: Wouldn’t this, and other similar incidents be additional fodder to bolster a more general position of not consuming animals? Not to say China doesn’t need to get its shit together in areas but if this had been something that came from standard livestock I don’t think people would be saying let’s outlaw that practice. Considering the Mad cow scare I don't think so. Plus you'd have wild ecological problems with the existing stock being released into the wild on top of things like an unregulated deer population (we don't want wolves in people area) not to mention the coming Wild boar issue in america. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26225 Posts
On April 13 2020 09:40 Sermokala wrote: Considering the Mad cow scare I don't think so. Plus you'd have wild ecological problems with the existing stock being released into the wild on top of things like an unregulated deer population (we don't want wolves in people area) not to mention the coming Wild boar issue in america. Why would you just throw them out into the wild? You’d taper off consumption and numbers as demand shifted. They’re an artificially controlled population now you’d just breed less of them ultimately. Not really a criticism I level at TLers but in wider circles there seems a lot of ‘China eat weird animals ban it’ and a very, very hostile reaction to any suggestion that animal agriculture holds this risk in general, however small or well regulated. Not a vegan myself or anything | ||
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Sermokala
United States14077 Posts
On April 13 2020 09:58 Wombat_NI wrote: Why would you just throw them out into the wild? You’d taper off consumption and numbers as demand shifted. They’re an artificially controlled population now you’d just breed less of them ultimately. Not really a criticism I level at TLers but in wider circles there seems a lot of ‘China eat weird animals ban it’ and a very, very hostile reaction to any suggestion that animal agriculture holds this risk in general, however small or well regulated. Not a vegan myself or anything Why would farmer knowing what they have is unprofitable and slowly becoming worse and worse bother with keeping them? an "accident" will happen and a fence will break and suddenly all the livestock got away wouldn't you know. Animal agriculture holds this is general indeed but in America and the rest of the western world, we have the FDA and different agencies tracking these things. You see recalls of things like lettuce and spinach all the time for the same things. China doesn't have these things and has a track record of letting diseases like these get out of control. Especially in an animal population like bats that breed diseases that a fever can't kill and so kill humans easily. There are no wet markets like in Wuhan in any part of the west. You can buy from meat markets in America generally any type of meat you can think of but that's a highly regulated and managed business. | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
There is an inherent risk, as with everything, but that risk can be managed with good regulation and compliance. A livestock pen with a single breed of animal in an extremely controlled environment is worlds away from a market selling live, wild animals directly to consumers. | ||
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
And afterwards we'll see that people have long warned that it'll happen. Antibiotics are no farming tool. They're lifesavers. | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
To be clear, there are lots of good reasons to reduce livestock consumption, but people eating bats is not really one of them. | ||
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reincremate
China2216 Posts
On April 13 2020 10:49 Sermokala wrote: Why would farmer knowing what they have is unprofitable and slowly becoming worse and worse bother with keeping them? an "accident" will happen and a fence will break and suddenly all the livestock got away wouldn't you know. Animal agriculture holds this is general indeed but in America and the rest of the western world, we have the FDA and different agencies tracking these things. You see recalls of things like lettuce and spinach all the time for the same things. China doesn't have these things and has a track record of letting diseases like these get out of control. Especially in an animal population like bats that breed diseases that a fever can't kill and so kill humans easily. There are no wet markets like in Wuhan in any part of the west. You can buy from meat markets in America generally any type of meat you can think of but that's a highly regulated and managed business. China does have a food and drug administration (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Medical_Products_Administration), although like the USFDA, it's often not very effective. Literally thousands of people in the US die and many more get sick each year from foodborne illnesses (https://www.cdc.gov/foodborneburden/index.html). That being said, it's not hard to see how a single-party, developing country like China has more severe food safety issues. On April 13 2020 09:58 Wombat_NI wrote: Why would you just throw them out into the wild? You’d taper off consumption and numbers as demand shifted. They’re an artificially controlled population now you’d just breed less of them ultimately. Not really a criticism I level at TLers but in wider circles there seems a lot of ‘China eat weird animals ban it’ and a very, very hostile reaction to any suggestion that animal agriculture holds this risk in general, however small or well regulated. Not a vegan myself or anything Banning the consumption of wild animals is a good idea, albeit one that will be difficult to enforce. There are definitely higher rates and more types of wild animal consumption in China than in developed countries, which is common knowledge both inside and outside of China. However, the fact that this greatly increases the risks of epidemics is indeed often lost on people (both inside and outside of China). I'm sure there are plenty of people in other less-developed parts of the world like rural subsaharan Africa eating bats and other wild animals, but the difference is these people tend to stay put. The outbreak in Wuhan, a massive transportation hub with tons of people from other regions of China, coincided with Chunyun (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chunyun), which sees hundreds of millions of people travelling back to their hometowns. By the time the government quarantined Wuhan, it was already way too late. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14077 Posts
Again them being a third world country doesn't excuse them. This is not the first superbug that's come out of China and killed tens of thousands of people. Its just the worst because of how unique it is. It would be perfectly reasonable to come down hard on any African nation with an ebola outbreak or what else, as we did when they had another Ebola outbreak recently. China refuses to change the basic and obvious thing that is causing these plagues and until they do more and more will come. | ||
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