EPTMaybe certain gamers should stop being the stereotypical entitled manchildren some frame them as, or at least not be indignant if they’re called out on it?
It’s pathetic, there’s a million male protagonists out there who aren’t dripping sex appeal
The Games Industry And ATVI - Page 65
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26255 Posts
Maybe certain gamers should stop being the stereotypical entitled manchildren some frame them as, or at least not be indignant if they’re called out on it? It’s pathetic, there’s a million male protagonists out there who aren’t dripping sex appeal | ||
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ETisME
12681 Posts
On October 02 2024 20:37 WombaT wrote: Aloy isn’t even unattractive, although didn’t stop people review bombing the latest Horizon game Maybe certain gamers should stop being the stereotypical entitled manchildren some frame them as, or at least not be indignant if they’re called out on it? It’s pathetic, there’s a million male protagonists out there who aren’t dripping sex appeal um I think you are confusing yourself. attractive characters don't necessarily need to be a sex appeal. Aloy literally got her face model touched up to look different than the model. She wouldn't have been a sex appeal without that either way. You were all up and arms about adding NFT to games would cost extra and serving no purpose, yet this is completely fine to you? Onimusha did right with motion capture back in 2001, without messing up their appearance on purpose. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium5048 Posts
Video games have transitioned from stupid fun (well, it can still be just stupid fun), to a more immersive, sometimes even life changing experience. Just like with movies, that can be stupid fun (while still being technically challenging to make), you can have movies with a lot of artistic intent behind them. Why not treat video games in the same way? Have your character be in there with a reason, a purpose. Don't just make it a bland, boring drab because of potential backlash. This doesn't mean I disagree with the "stereotypical entitled manchildren" though, but can you claim to be the arbiter to know who is like that and who genuinely likes esthetics? And the difficulty actually becomes, when is it a just case of esthetic choice vs when it isn't. I don't like these dismissive tones when you know for a fact that one of the reasons these companies tone down characters is to maximize profit and to minimize backlash from loud minorities screaming toxic ideologies. It's good to be mindful when something is gratuitous or unncessary and to speak out when it is or maybe just not consume the product then. For instance, I really dislike gratuitous gore (therefore I never watch Saw or never will because the set up is so flimsy), but some people enjoy it. Is that bad? No, it's an audience that doesn't necessarily needs to overlap with my sensibilities. Also, how are you breeding inclusivity when you're not making space for stereotypical entitled manchidren? Have they been dominating all the other spaces for too long maybe? This all requires more analysis than just opposing the unreasonable people who are review bombing, we need to delve deeper because the more I look at things and the more I follow the discourse in all aspects of society, the more I see these tribalistic responses. This response may seem more vitriolic than I wanted to be, I'll postface this with a sorry if it malcontents you, wasn't necessarily my intention. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11749 Posts
Just buy the games you like, don't buy the games you don't like, and don't constantly complain about weird shit. We don't need more stupid culture war everywhere. If your dislike for a characters looks is big enough so you won't enjoy the game, don't buy it. But please don't constantly talk about how everything is "woke" now or any similar stupid shit. Just enjoy the games you like. Good games are good even if the characters don't look perfect for you. Bad games are bad even if the characters look awesome. Not every game needs gay characters, but gay characters don't make a game bad. Pretty women don't make a game bad, ugly women don't make a game bad. Just focus on the game instead of stupid superficial bullshit. And actually look at the game instead of trying to use it as a culture war battleground. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium5048 Posts
I like indie games way more because they're all bascially passion projects while the big game studios are just franchise vacuums. It reflects on how their games are presented and made and it's just one big shit after the other nowadays. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17261 Posts
On October 02 2024 22:11 Simberto wrote: Just buy the games you like, don't buy the games you don't like, and don't constantly complain about weird shit. We don't need more stupid culture war everywhere. see my comment below. On October 02 2024 20:28 WombaT wrote: Ah yes the political correctness that has someone hunting robots in a post-apocalyptic world not looking like a supermodel, that kind of political correctness Since the tech was possible publishers like Eidos Entertainment have been shoving polygonal depictions of super hot girls into their mediocre games to bring in the male 14 to 24 demographic. They are dealing from the bottom of the deck. The publisher is appealing to the lowest common denominator and building a certain type of fan base off of that. They can't make a great game so instead they stick in what are supposed to be super hot chicks that is really a mess of polygons. After decades of building a fan base expecting super hot girls these publishers and studios are somehow surprised the fan base is dissatisfied with the parade of uglified women showing up in games today. The moralizing by the game makers and journalists is hilarious. When dealing in the lowest common denominator with the hopes of bringing in the male 14 to 24 demo the formula is simple. Super big muscled strong men and super sexy girls. Gearbox makes fun of the whole thing in Borderlands with their character Torgue Flexington. "find that asshole and kill him because I disagree with his review score" , Torgue Flexington, Borderlands2. | ||
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Silvanel
Poland4742 Posts
On October 02 2024 22:11 Simberto wrote: Oh god not this fucking discussion. It sucks. Just buy the games you like, don't buy the games you don't like, and don't constantly complain about weird shit. We don't need more stupid culture war everywhere. Yeah, ok. But sometimes You need to buy and play the game to realize You don't like it, no? The only thing You can do then is not buy the next instance if it ever comes. That's how I feel about Borderlands 3 which I am playing right now. I loved Borderlands 2 but 3 is lacking "something". It wasn't obvious from the start, so I couldn't refund the game on steam. The only thing I can do is now is hold out on number 4 (unless it has spectacular reviews, of course). I will probably still finish the game unless I get bored to hell. Edit: Lol and Jimmy by total accident posts about Mr Torque which I was just recollecting was much funnier than any Borderlands 3 character. Yeah even Claptrap and Zane. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17261 Posts
Mediocre game studios make a game like Rumble Roses. A mediocre wrestling game with lots of tits and jiggle. BTW, that is a cover of David Lee Roth's "Yankee Rose" WWF No Mercy still has an active community around it 24 years later. Rumble Roses? LOL. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11749 Posts
But my core point was that we should focus on what we enjoy and just play that, instead of complaining about the stuff we don't like nonstop, or doing this culture war BS where you try to start a shitstorm at everything that doesn't comply to your criteria in the hope of eventually producing a culture where no one dares to produce a game that doesn't fit your criteria. Ultimately, we have so many good games available to play, with so many options that there really is something for everyone. We should focus on having fun with those. We don't need the shitty version of the already shitty culture war. People who are just into gaming to complain that games don't fit their culture war standards should just do something else instead. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17261 Posts
On October 02 2024 23:13 Simberto wrote: But my core point was that we should focus on what we enjoy and just play that, instead of complaining about the stuff we don't like nonstop, or doing this culture war BS where you try to start a shitstorm at everything that doesn't comply to your criteria in the hope of eventually producing a culture where no one dares to produce a game that doesn't fit your criteria. i'm into the first 3 Mad Max movies. George Miller can't seem to get back to that. Instead I play Borderlands 1, watch Road Warriors wrestling matches, and watch the first 3 movies when I want that style of universe Miller built in the 80s. A Road Warriors Wrestling match is very much like combat in the Thunderdome of the 1985 movie. If George Miller wants to stick a 100lb//40kg girl on a 1250CC motor cycle and show her commanding that massive piece of metal flawlessly thru a sand dune... good for him. Enjoy losing money on Furiosa, George! On October 02 2024 23:13 Simberto wrote: People who are just into gaming to complain that games don't fit their culture war standards should just do something else instead. I've been following the Grubby First Rule of Gaming since the Nintendo64. It is a great rule. The minute you start to get bored .. go do something else. On October 02 2024 23:13 Simberto wrote: Ultimately, we have so many good games available to play, with so many options that there really is something for everyone. We should focus on having fun with those. We don't need the shitty version of the already shitty culture war. i agree. plus, these are not sexy girls. they are polygons and flashes of light. go a sports bar and tip the waitress well and hang out with her if you need female contact. volunteer at an animal hospital. women love chemistry and biological sciences. explore that path perhaps. there are women every where... go out into the real world. If someone obtains any kind of sexual stimulation staring into a flat panel... there is something wrong. However, this is what Eidos Entertainment and Konami are banking on with the games filled with tits and jiggle. Publishers are scummy. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium5048 Posts
On October 02 2024 23:13 Simberto wrote: Sure, buying stuff is never a total information situation. You can only try to estimate if you would like the game from given information, and fundamentally you are always judging the probability of a game being worth the asking price to you based on incomplete information. But my core point was that we should focus on what we enjoy and just play that, instead of complaining about the stuff we don't like nonstop, or doing this culture war BS where you try to start a shitstorm at everything that doesn't comply to your criteria in the hope of eventually producing a culture where no one dares to produce a game that doesn't fit your criteria. Ultimately, we have so many good games available to play, with so many options that there really is something for everyone. We should focus on having fun with those. We don't need the shitty version of the already shitty culture war. People who are just into gaming to complain that games don't fit their culture war standards should just do something else instead. Games, like I said before, are not just the core mechanics any longer. Some are, but some are lore and world building and themes and symbolism and music and storytelling together with the core mechanics. I know when I want one over the other and I also know, in this stage of my life, I like the more storydriven games over the more mechanics driven games. And although I say that, Devil Daggers might be in my top 10 games of all time and enjoy booting it up every so often (while failing horribly), but so is Disco Elysium. | ||
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CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2714 Posts
The model for Aloy looks very similar except they took her from thin supermodel to fit as hell crossfit girl. 100% approve since it makes her more bad ass. Same as Gina Carano. Certainly an attractive women, also believable that she could kick some ass. In the same vein of course the male action hero should either look like peak Arnold or at least like a powerlifter (potbelly but big as fuck, ie Thor in God of War). | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17261 Posts
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ETisME
12681 Posts
On October 02 2024 22:11 Simberto wrote: Oh god not this fucking discussion. It sucks. Just buy the games you like, don't buy the games you don't like, and don't constantly complain about weird shit. We don't need more stupid culture war everywhere. If your dislike for a characters looks is big enough so you won't enjoy the game, don't buy it. But please don't constantly talk about how everything is "woke" now or any similar stupid shit. Just enjoy the games you like. Good games are good even if the characters don't look perfect for you. Bad games are bad even if the characters look awesome. Not every game needs gay characters, but gay characters don't make a game bad. Pretty women don't make a game bad, ugly women don't make a game bad. Just focus on the game instead of stupid superficial bullshit. And actually look at the game instead of trying to use it as a culture war battleground. We as gamers should care how this is happening, because this isn't something that just go away and is forced upon gamers. This is all started by some developers and major video game journalists with an agenda, and only in the US/west for a reason. If we were to apply their standard, then classic characters morrigan and Mai Shiranui wouldn't even be on the drawing board. The only good sign is these are happening at triple A Games mostly and IGN score is showing more and more disconnect with the sales and gamers' score. And more people are calling out about it. even the nature of video game journalists in these publications are so different compared to what it used to be and Asia, it's a literal activists playground, just look at how Famitsu do their scoring. It's always about the game itself and no other agenda | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
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Simberto
Germany11749 Posts
On October 03 2024 17:14 ETisME wrote: We as gamers should care how this is happening, because this isn't something that just go away and is forced upon gamers. This is all started by some developers and major video game journalists with an agenda, and only in the US/west for a reason. If we were to apply their standard, then classic characters morrigan and Mai Shiranui wouldn't even be on the drawing board. The only good sign is these are happening at triple A Games mostly and IGN score is showing more and more disconnect with the sales and gamers' score. And more people are calling out about it. even the nature of video game journalists in these publications are so different compared to what it used to be and Asia, it's a literal activists playground, just look at how Famitsu do their scoring. It's always about the game itself and no other agenda I think this is a bad take. Video game companies mostly want money, not "push an agenda". Sadly, there is a certain group of people to whom specific groups of other people existing in media is always "an agenda"(A). On the other hand, there is another group of people who thinks that one should "support" any piece of media that involves people from those minorities.(B) Both groups are idiots, and generally suck at talking to each other. (1) It is not a problem if gay people exist in media, and that is not pushing an agenda. It is also not a problem if ugly (or not absolute supermodel) people exist in media. Good games don't become bad because there is a gay character in them. (2) On the other hand, bad games don't become good just because they have a disable latino lesbian character in them, either. Some companies try to use this approach to sell their bad games. People from group A act as if every situation is situation 2, and that is all they talk about. Meanwhile, people from group B act as if every situation is situation 1, and that is what group A is always talking about. My proposals are the following: (1) Good games exist. (2) Bad games exist. (3) Some good games involve minorities or ugly people. (MUP) (4) Some companies who made a bad game use MUP to try to sell that bad game. (5) Just buy good games if they are good, without worrying if they involve MUP. (6) Just don't buy bad games, no matter if they involve MUP. | ||
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CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2714 Posts
On October 03 2024 17:14 ETisME wrote: We as gamers should care how this is happening, because this isn't something that just go away and is forced upon gamers. This is all started by some developers and major video game journalists with an agenda, and only in the US/west for a reason. If we were to apply their standard, then classic characters morrigan and Mai Shiranui wouldn't even be on the drawing board. The only good sign is these are happening at triple A Games mostly and IGN score is showing more and more disconnect with the sales and gamers' score. And more people are calling out about it. even the nature of video game journalists in these publications are so different compared to what it used to be and Asia, it's a literal activists playground, just look at how Famitsu do their scoring. It's always about the game itself and no other agenda Also not wanting every single character to look like a supermodel or a pornstar is hardly "woke". For one thing actually wanting a tough character to look tough (and not like someone that an average joe could snap in half) is a thing. Another is that if you have a daughter you see how much (social) media twists the beauty ideals. So many young women around with lip fillers, anorexia, implants etc. Makes them look like twisted instagram clones. I'm terrified my daughter will one day want fillers because she thinks that's "normal". Not saying every videogame girl should be chubby but moving away from the extreme body types like older tomb raider or many other games is preferable to me at least. These days I would hesitate to buy a game with a completely unrealistic sexified main character. So while there probably is still a target audience of 12-16 yo boys who wants that type of character there's also a an ever growing audience that doesn't. Any me and my peers have significantly more money to spend that the teens.  | ||
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Silvanel
Poland4742 Posts
On October 03 2024 21:13 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: Also not wanting every single character to look like a supermodel or a pornstar is hardly "woke". Can You give me an example of such a game? Also: Some women have always aspired to achieve a currently desired standard of beauty. Nothing new here. It's as old as civilization. Social media might be a little more invasive, but that's actually a problem in many areas, not only when it comes to beauty. A general issue with social medias and how they impact our lives. How are implants any different from tattoos, piercings, unusual hairstyle or clothing? You know, the things that were considered NOK for a woman a few decades back, but are OK now? Just like a short skirs, swear words, a job, disobeying a husband and voting rights were NOK for women 100 years earlier? Society is evolving, maybe in 50 years everyone will have implants and cosmetic surgery? Who knows. You are being judgmental for no real good reason here. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17261 Posts
On October 03 2024 20:51 Simberto wrote: I think this is a bad take. Video game companies mostly want money, not "push an agenda". Sadly, there is a certain group of people to whom specific groups of other people existing in media is always "an agenda"(A). On the other hand, there is another group of people who thinks that one should "support" any piece of media that involves people from those minorities.(B) Both groups are idiots, and generally suck at talking to each other. (1) It is not a problem if gay people exist in media, and that is not pushing an agenda. It is also not a problem if ugly (or not absolute supermodel) people exist in media. Good games don't become bad because there is a gay character in them. (2) On the other hand, bad games don't become good just because they have a disable latino lesbian character in them, either. Some companies try to use this approach to sell their bad games. People from group A act as if every situation is situation 2, and that is all they talk about. Meanwhile, people from group B act as if every situation is situation 1, and that is what group A is always talking about. My proposals are the following: (1) Good games exist. (2) Bad games exist. (3) Some good games involve minorities or ugly people. (MUP) (4) Some companies who made a bad game use MUP to try to sell that bad game. (5) Just buy good games if they are good, without worrying if they involve MUP. (6) Just don't buy bad games, no matter if they involve MUP. The publishers are constantly going after the teenage demographic. This is a group of people whose minds are immature and still forming. They want the money from these young people and none of the negatives that go with inducing impulsive young people to spend money they should not spend. They employ EA Sports Card Packs to get 15 year olds to spend money on a game that will be grandfathered out of existence in 10 months. Also, the publishers and developers preach to the consumer about what the proper standard of morality is. You will always get push back on that. It is happening with the Godot Engine right now. Its constantly happening. So if publishers are going to employ borderline illegal tactics to increase revenue while simultaneously preaching to the consumers in the western hemisphere about morality they are going to get return fire. Using gay people as a shield won't cut it. Especially when the publishers pretend gay people do not exist when collecting money from their customers in the middle east. Publishers want the money from 15 year olds in every part of the globe and none of the headaches that go along with it. Then, they blame the consumer when things go wrong. This is how we end up with these giant big budget massive failures. The publishers and developers no longer have a proper feedback loop. They do not know their own customer base because they've spent all their time "other"-ing it. Nintendo does a nice job of navigating this minefield. The other publishers are pretty bad. | ||
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CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2714 Posts
Can You give ma an example of such a game? Have you ever played or seen any game in the Dead or Alive series? Also: Some women have always aspired to achieve a currently desired standard of beauty. Nothing new here. It's as old as civilization. Social media might be a little more invasive, but that's actually a problem in many areas, not only when it comes to beauty. A general issue with social medias and how they impact our lives. How are implants any different from tattoos, piercings, unusual hairstyle or clothing? You know, the things that were considered NOK for a woman a few decades back, but are OK now? Just like a short skirs, swear words, a job, disobeying a husband and voting rights were NOK for women 100 years earlier? Society is evolving, maybe in 50 years everyone will have implants and cosmetic surgery? Who knows. You are being judgmental for no real good reason here. I don't care what I am and neither should you. Adults have always been more conservative against new things and parents always want to protect their kids. If you want your daughter to get lip fillers, implants and a full body tattoo because she follows that kind of influencers on insta it's up to you. I will love mine regardless but I will also teach her she's beautiful they way she is and that my opinion is that too extensive and irreversible body modifications makes her look bland, unnatural and ugly. However, the point is that people argue that it somehow "woke" to not have "idealized" women in video game. My point is that there is a significant group of people who don't want to go back to the age where all women in games were slim with DD's and wore a skin tight "combat suit". I absolutely don't mind horny teenagers buying those types of game. It's perfectly fine if you want to have that angle. But it's not "woke" to not want it and there is a *significant* group of older gamers with money. The only difference is we usually don't whine online about "woke" because of the esthetic choice off the main characters, we are just less likely to buy that game. I mean if a truly great game came out and the main character had huge tits I might play it either way so it's not a dealbreaker but it doesn't improve my chances of buying it. | ||
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