EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 995
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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brian
United States9643 Posts
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farvacola
United States18869 Posts
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On December 20 2018 23:32 Dangermousecatdog wrote: It isn't really when you consider that Japan was a far more populous and industrialised country. Not to mention in the intervening 50 years after WW2 ended did the value of the common infantryman decrease for the purposes of combat. What was comical was the Pentagon using Bush's fantasy of being welcomed with open arms and the Iraqi peoples immediately adopting American culture as their occupying strategy. The logic behind it was sound, absent any understanding of the Middle East or people in general. Remove Dictator everyone hates = We the heroes Being the heroes = Everyone welcomes us Everyone welcomes us = They'll listen They'll listen = we can reshape them in our image Absent actual encounters with reality this is a sensible chain of events. They never really considered that just because the people of Iraq hated Saddam didn't mean they couldn't also hate the West, nor that Saddamn being a tyrannical strongman was literally the only thing keeping things in check over there, nor that a weakened, destabilised Iraq would have no way of preventing busloads of US enemies from elsewhere in the Middle East driving over to this exciting new firing range that has opened in Iraq without notice.. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On December 20 2018 23:32 Dangermousecatdog wrote: It isn't really when you consider that Japan was a far more populous and industrialised country. Not to mention in the intervening 50 years after WW2 ended did the value of the common infantryman decrease for the purposes of combat. What was comical was the Pentagon using Bush's fantasy of being welcomed with open arms and the Iraqi peoples immediately adopting American culture as their occupying strategy. Japan is a really country that is a bunch of islands. We nuked them twice, they unconditionally surrendered and gave up all their weapons. Iraq is a huge country in a region filled with powers hostile to the US and sections of Iraq’s population; all who can literally walk into the country. The population of Iraq was also had more complex ethnic and cultural conflicts that were unresolved due to the decades of authoritarian rule. They did not unconditionally surrender and were never fully disarmed. We were not prepared and did not send enough people. The Iraq war never should have happened. But the fact that we tried to do it on the cheap with insufficient forces and understanding of the region we entering makes it that much worse. And then we held elections soon afterwards in a nation who leader has spent the last two decades killing any opposition leadership and who had no recent democratic traditions in their culture. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Godwrath
Spain10167 Posts
On December 20 2018 20:01 iamthedave wrote: is this sarcasm? You couldn't even manage to build your case over the course of two posts. The Nobel Peace prize isn't awarded to someone who does the best thing for their country at the expense of everyone else in the world. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
Edit: Turkey’s defense minister said they are prepared to bury the Kurds in the ditches they dug. They followed the announcement of the US withdrawal with a promise to kill our allies and work with Assad. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/turkey-threatens-to-bury-kurdish-militants-in-syria-amid-us-withdrawal/2018/12/20/06d8eb18-0460-11e9-958c-0a601226ff6b_story.html?utm_term=.dabd758f0a94 | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
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Wulfey_LA
932 Posts
On December 21 2018 01:07 Plansix wrote: The response is quick and ruthless. Trump is putting the US at risk simply by making us not trust worthy or a partner that someone would want to warn about a pending attack. https://twitter.com/dionnissenbaum/status/1075778098094882816 Edit: Turkey’s defense minister said they are prepared to bury the Kurds in the ditches they dug. They followed the announcement of the US withdrawal with a promise to kill our allies and work with Assad. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/turkey-threatens-to-bury-kurdish-militants-in-syria-amid-us-withdrawal/2018/12/20/06d8eb18-0460-11e9-958c-0a601226ff6b_story.html?utm_term=.dabd758f0a94 I think Trump is playing with more fire here than he realizes. The President is nominally the Commander in Chief of the military, but ordering our best of the best specOps guys to abandon the their bloodied allies to their deaths is a big ask. Note that Trump is already walking this one back. Contrast his initial tweet which declares that ISIS is defeated with instead today's fantasies about how Russia/Syria/Iran will fight the undefeated ISIS for us. + Show Spoiler + That Trump is conceding his premises 24 hours after stating them is a big tell that he is folding soon. | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
Is this? On December 21 2018 00:49 Dangermousecatdog wrote: Those are all very good points Plansix, (except the bit about Japan being a bunch of islands), but what I am taking issue with is your issue that the amount of troops sent to invade Iraq was comically small. It wasn't comically small, it could even be said to be too large for defeating Iraq's technologically inferior and numerically tiny military. The only problem was what happened afterwards. That's like saying 'we sent too many people to accomplish everything but the goal we actually went there to accomplish'. If you sent too few people to fulfil the entire point of the venture then you've really not sent enough people. So you'd be right if they'd literally just gone there to depose Saddam. But they didn't. It was always about exporting Democracy, and that was always going to require an extended occupation. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On December 21 2018 03:09 On_Slaught wrote: Even tho we already knew that statistically every statement Trump makes is likely to be false, that lie about Iran, Syria, and Russia being upset about us leaving is especially fucked. Putin is literally on the record saying he agrees with the decision while Iran and Syrias governments are certainly dancing in the streets over how much easier things will be for them. As Plansix pointed out, Turkey is ecstatic as well because they can kill more Kurds. Turkey is literally promising to invade on behalf of Assad and Russia to kill US allies. It is sort of shocking how overt they are being about it. | ||
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farvacola
United States18869 Posts
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On December 21 2018 03:36 farvacola wrote: They may think they can use this to get at Gulen. We let Erdoğan beat the shit out of a bunch of US citizens protesting Turkey in DC, so why not just hand over someone to be tortured and killed for a coup we have no evidence he was involved with? And then let Erdoğan kill a bunch of our allies who helped fight ISIS with us? The only silver lining to this is that it will look terrible in 2020. But would rather win without throwing the people who trusted the US to the wolves. On December 21 2018 03:48 On_Slaught wrote: Ryan officially announcing Trump will not sign legislation to keep the Gov open without wall money. Looks like Coulter and Fox New bitching like crazy worked. Time for a showdown. Paul Ryan, still ineffective at leading his part right up until the end. I guess government employees work for free through the holidays. | ||
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IyMoon
United States1249 Posts
On December 21 2018 03:48 On_Slaught wrote: Ryan officially announcing Trump will not sign legislation to keep the Gov open without wall money. Looks like Coulter and Fox New bitching like crazy worked. Time for a showdown. Can't wait for him to golf while the SS works for no pay | ||
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