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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 98

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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

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Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
April 10 2018 15:48 GMT
#1941
On April 11 2018 00:39 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2018 00:04 Plansix wrote:
On April 10 2018 23:40 Gorsameth wrote:
On April 10 2018 22:55 Plansix wrote:
It is really stupid because they could have charged them all with first degree burglary because they were breaking into homes while armed. That carries a 10-99 year sentence. Like in most states, home invasions are treated with the same severity as attempted murder in Alabama. But apparently the DA wanted to test the limits of felony murder.

He'll spend 65 years in prison for felony murder, armed burglary, second-degree theft, and third-degree theft.
So yes he was charged for it.

I need to dig into that to see how the sentencing was issued. The felony murder charge might make up a small part of those 65 years, since first degree burglary is a serious charge. But kid was still 15 years old, so can’t justify them throwing book at him with these charges when there were other people involved.
The article didn't mention the individual terms but I saw 30 for felony murder, 15 for armed burglary and 2x10 for 2 counts of theft mentioned on a different forum.
Edit:Source

All right, there is no justifying any of that for any reason. The burglary charge would have been sufficient if they really wanted to go for him.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10834 Posts
April 10 2018 15:52 GMT
#1942
How is it even possible to sentence a minor (that isn't a repeat offender psycho) for 65 years due to burglary?
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22049 Posts
April 10 2018 16:00 GMT
#1943
On April 11 2018 00:52 Velr wrote:
How is it even possible to sentence a minor (that isn't a repeat offender psycho) for 65 years due to burglary?
He was tried as an adult. I haven't seen a justification for it anywhere (and I disagree with doing it without a damn good reason) but I imagine its because guns were involved or the severity of the charges.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10834 Posts
April 10 2018 16:25 GMT
#1944
I get it if they do that with 17 year olds but 15? Come on... How this is not another outrage in itself seems just crazy... That you can jail anyone for 65 years seems crazy. Most countries got limits on that (20-25 years or something like that) unless your deemed untreatable.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-10 16:27:08
April 10 2018 16:26 GMT
#1945


I’m not surprised by this at all. Given the instantaneous scrutiny that the raid would come under, it makes sense that the top members of the Justice Department would sign off personally. Removes any claim that the investigation went rogue or operated without authority. On a side note, it appears that Cohen had long term a hotel room and home in NYC. Because nothing says operating above board like a hotel room in the same city you live in.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-10 16:34:46
April 10 2018 16:30 GMT
#1946
On April 11 2018 01:25 Velr wrote:
I get it if they do that with 17 year olds but 15? Come on... How this is not another outrage in itself seems just crazy... That you can jail anyone for 65 years seems crazy. Most countries got limits on that (20-25 years or something like that) unless your deemed untreatable.

it's not an outrage because it's normal here. people become normalized to all sorts of things after all, regardless of rightness or wrongness, people become used to it. if you want to seriously read up on it I could point to more detailed readings on that topic (not that i'm that familiar with them, i've only heard about them).
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
April 10 2018 16:31 GMT
#1947
On April 11 2018 01:25 Velr wrote:
I get it if they do that with 17 year olds but 15? Come on... How this is not another outrage in itself seems just crazy... That you can jail anyone for 65 years seems crazy. Most countries got limits on that (20-25 years or something like that) unless your deemed untreatable.


It is Alabama. Not really a state known for its fair treatment of black suspects historically. Or treatment of blacks in general.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10834 Posts
April 10 2018 16:37 GMT
#1948
I just don'tget this diffreinciation between white and black subjects... Wtf is your code of law worth if it allos this?
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15728 Posts
April 10 2018 16:40 GMT
#1949
On April 11 2018 01:37 Velr wrote:
I just don'tget this diffreinciation between white and black subjects... Wtf is your code of law worth if it allos this?


Law is ultimately interpreted by humans. We have a wide range of humans on this planet. Some of them are Cletus. When Cletus interprets the law, it goes through a Cletus filter. Cletus tends to to err on the "let's do mean shit to blacks" side of things.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
April 10 2018 16:41 GMT
#1950
On April 11 2018 01:37 Velr wrote:
I just don'tget this diffreinciation between white and black subjects... Wtf is your code of law worth if it allos this?

it's not so easy to fix things? any system must be implemented by people; and if there's a problem with the people, those can show up in the implementation.
and a law code can have serious problems, and still be far, far better than nothing.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
April 10 2018 16:45 GMT
#1951
On April 11 2018 01:37 Velr wrote:
I just don'tget this diffreinciation between white and black subjects... Wtf is your code of law worth if it allos this?

The law doesn't make that distinction, the DA bringing the charges does. He was capable of convicting them off all of these crimes, so he brought all of the crimes against them. It is why you see the white Trump voter who voted twice getting no jail time, while a black woman that voted when she was ineligible gets 5 years. She threw herself on the mercy of the court, saying she truly thought she could vote while on probation, still got 5 years. Our is Justice system is rotten with racial bias, but not because of the laws, but because of the people involved.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Tachion
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada8573 Posts
April 10 2018 17:12 GMT
#1952
On April 11 2018 01:26 Plansix wrote:
https://twitter.com/peterbakernyt/status/983739174506426368

I’m not surprised by this at all. Given the instantaneous scrutiny that the raid would come under, it makes sense that the top members of the Justice Department would sign off personally. Removes any claim that the investigation went rogue or operated without authority. On a side note, it appears that Cohen had long term a hotel room and home in NYC. Because nothing says operating above board like a hotel room in the same city you live in.

There was some controversy awhile back that Trump was interviewing people to appoint as Attorney for the Southern District of New York. Apparently the guy that Trump had appointed, Geoffrey Berman, has recused himself from the investigation into Michael Cohen. He donated money to Trump's campaign and had worked with Rudy Giuliani. He was in all likelihood there to act as a shield for Trump, and it backfired tremendously.
i was driving down the road this november eve and spotted a hitchhiker walking down the street. i pulled over and saw that it was only a tree. i uprooted it and put it in my trunk. do trees like marshmallow peeps? cause that's all i have and will have.
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany11714 Posts
April 10 2018 17:16 GMT
#1953
On April 11 2018 01:31 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2018 01:25 Velr wrote:
I get it if they do that with 17 year olds but 15? Come on... How this is not another outrage in itself seems just crazy... That you can jail anyone for 65 years seems crazy. Most countries got limits on that (20-25 years or something like that) unless your deemed untreatable.


It is Alabama. Not really a state known for its fair treatment of black suspects historically. Or treatment of blacks in general.


Yeah, but this is not even about black people. I mean, it is, but this shouldn't be legal in general. You should simply not legally be able to jail a 15 year old for 65 years. No matter the circumstances. The whole situation is insane.

And it is even more insane to jail him for the police shooting his friend.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-10 17:23:32
April 10 2018 17:21 GMT
#1954
On April 11 2018 02:12 Tachion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2018 01:26 Plansix wrote:
https://twitter.com/peterbakernyt/status/983739174506426368

I’m not surprised by this at all. Given the instantaneous scrutiny that the raid would come under, it makes sense that the top members of the Justice Department would sign off personally. Removes any claim that the investigation went rogue or operated without authority. On a side note, it appears that Cohen had long term a hotel room and home in NYC. Because nothing says operating above board like a hotel room in the same city you live in.

There was some controversy awhile back that Trump was interviewing people to appoint as Attorney for the Southern District of New York. Apparently the guy that Trump had appointed, Geoffrey Berman, has recused himself from the investigation into Michael Cohen. He donated money to Trump's campaign and had worked with Rudy Giuliani. He was in all likelihood there to act as a shield for Trump, and it backfired tremendously.

Trump's attempt to gain loyalty in that department seem to have backfired tremendously. It is almost fun to watch, but then I remember how much power he has and how useless the Speaker and Senate leader are.

On April 11 2018 02:16 Simberto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2018 01:31 Plansix wrote:
On April 11 2018 01:25 Velr wrote:
I get it if they do that with 17 year olds but 15? Come on... How this is not another outrage in itself seems just crazy... That you can jail anyone for 65 years seems crazy. Most countries got limits on that (20-25 years or something like that) unless your deemed untreatable.


It is Alabama. Not really a state known for its fair treatment of black suspects historically. Or treatment of blacks in general.


Yeah, but this is not even about black people. I mean, it is, but this shouldn't be legal in general. You should simply not legally be able to jail a 15 year old for 65 years. No matter the circumstances. The whole situation is insane.

And it is even more insane to jail him for the police shooting his friend.

I have no doubt that they would have been charged very differently if they were white men and a boy committing the same crimes. That kid would not have been tried as an adult.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Wulfey_LA
Profile Joined April 2017
932 Posts
April 10 2018 17:25 GMT
#1955
DJT's basic conflict is that the people that are loyal enough are almost certainly corrupted by the demands of his loyalty. Only someone who was close to Kislyak could be AG. Only someone who dealt with his mistresses could be his lawyer. Only someone he worked with could be the AG in NY. Only his son in law could talk to foreign powers on his behalf. He picks people who have demonstrated loyalty by participating in his corrupt/illegal behavior.
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Netherlands30548 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-10 17:59:23
April 10 2018 17:42 GMT
#1956
So is it known why they raided Cohen's office? I don't really understand the link between the FBI and a pornstar payoff. NYT says they were looking for ''records of payment' to other women. But why is this the FBIs job?

Like he's a cheating lying scumbag but that is not exactly a crime. So is the money part why the FBI is there?
Neosteel Enthusiast
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
April 10 2018 17:58 GMT
#1957
money laundering/ campaign finance violations
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18187 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-10 18:05:00
April 10 2018 18:03 GMT
#1958
On April 11 2018 01:26 Plansix wrote:
https://twitter.com/peterbakernyt/status/983739174506426368

I’m not surprised by this at all. Given the instantaneous scrutiny that the raid would come under, it makes sense that the top members of the Justice Department would sign off personally. Removes any claim that the investigation went rogue or operated without authority. On a side note, it appears that Cohen had long term a hotel room and home in NYC. Because nothing says operating above board like a hotel room in the same city you live in.

Or he has/d a mistress.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-10 18:10:49
April 10 2018 18:06 GMT
#1959
On April 11 2018 03:03 Acrofales wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 11 2018 01:26 Plansix wrote:
https://twitter.com/peterbakernyt/status/983739174506426368

I’m not surprised by this at all. Given the instantaneous scrutiny that the raid would come under, it makes sense that the top members of the Justice Department would sign off personally. Removes any claim that the investigation went rogue or operated without authority. On a side note, it appears that Cohen had long term a hotel room and home in NYC. Because nothing says operating above board like a hotel room in the same city you live in.

Or he has/d a mistress.

For any normal attorney, that would be my response. For this one, it could be anything.

On April 11 2018 02:42 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
So is it known why they raided Cohen's office? I don't really understand the link between the FBI and a pornstar payoff. NYT says they were looking for ''records of payment' to other women. But why is this the FBIs job?

Like he's a cheating lying scumbag but that is not exactly a crime. So is the money part why the FBI is there?

The payment could have violated a number of laws, since Trump claims he didn’t do it. It is a material assistance to a candidate that was not claimed as a contribution. But it also sounds like there are wire and bank fraud charges.

The deputy AG of the Justice department signed off on the raid. A judge signed off on it. Other members of the Justice department signed off on it. The FBI conducted the raid, as it is their jurisdiction. But there is no way Rosenstein approves a raid on the President’s personal attorney without overwhelming evidence. Like a basket of smoking guns.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10834 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-04-10 18:23:40
April 10 2018 18:22 GMT
#1960
If your justice system is SOOOO open to discrimination, you better scrap it. Justicia is blind for a reason... But well, you still got lynch mobs (juries)...
Baseline is, in court justice should win, not the law or another strange concept.
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