|
Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
On October 01 2018 06:15 Taelshin wrote:
If you were being accused of rape and possible attempted murder from 36 years ago with out any proof or tangible evidence how would you react? @plansix. I thought his testimony was fine considering the situation. Talking to some more of my left leaning friends they are already on the same train your on, " The even if he didn't try to rape anyone we cant have a loose cannon like that on the SC train ". I know id be pretty fired up if I was getting falsely accused of heinous crimes.
I'd be pissed. I'm not a judge.
If I were a judge, and I knew I was innocent, and I was being accused in this manner, I'd expect ME to maybe be emotional, sure, but to answer every single question put to me straightforwardly, precisely, with consistency to the facts because, being true, they shouldn't be too hard to remember. Maybe I'd say how harrowing the experience has been, and I'd be thankful for a chance to finally clear the air and my name, and get the hell on with it.
Oh, and I wouldn't have a photo op of me practically sneering at the father of a dead kid while he's reaching for a handshake live and bright in people's memories, giving people the impression that I'm an unsympathetic arsehole.
Judges should not be dynamic personalities. Judges should be those friends you'd never invite to a party because they're so dull they suck the life out of all proceedings due to them being studious, abstemious, tediously serious people who actually think it's fun to dig into a pile of legal cases and find interesting quirks in the legal system. People for whom politics is essentially irrelevant because the law is their life, and that's why they know how to properly apply it and laymen haven't got a clue.
|
On October 01 2018 06:41 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2018 06:19 Gorsameth wrote:On October 01 2018 06:15 Taelshin wrote:
If you were being accused of rape and possible attempted murder from 36 years ago with out any proof or tangible evidence how would you react? @plansix. I thought his testimony was fine considering the situation. Talking to some more of my left leaning friends they are already on the same train your on, " The even if he didn't try to rape anyone we cant have a loose cannon like that on the SC train ". I know id be pretty fired up if I was getting falsely accused of heinous crimes. Are you a judge being interviewed for a job on the Supreme Court? Its an exceptional position requiring exceptional people. Somehow I think this gets continually glossed over by Kav's defenders. This isn't some ordinary dude, being tried for guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. It's the supreme court. 9 people out of the whole country have that distinction at any one time. That's way beyond even the top 1% of the top 1%. Having as much stink as he does, and having as violent a temperament as he does, these just won't cut it. His life isn't being destroyed, but he's being considered for one of the most prestigious jobs in this country. A normal person with normal temperament and a whiff of sexual assault to him is far below what should be the threshold here. It's very clear that Republicans are letting their politics, and their concern for the midterms, taint their decision-making. This is not behavior that should be encouraged or rewarded.
That poll a few days ago that said that 54% of Republican's want Kavanaugh confirmed even if the accusations of sexual assault were true still sticks with me. It's stuff like that which remind me that the culture between the parties, not just the politics, is so very different. Throwing tantrums, lying, peddling conspiracies, and blaming democrats like Kavanaugh did is just Trumpism at its core. Republicans are used to it by now. Ain't gonna change many minds with that petty stuff.
|
On October 01 2018 06:41 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2018 06:19 Gorsameth wrote:On October 01 2018 06:15 Taelshin wrote:
If you were being accused of rape and possible attempted murder from 36 years ago with out any proof or tangible evidence how would you react? @plansix. I thought his testimony was fine considering the situation. Talking to some more of my left leaning friends they are already on the same train your on, " The even if he didn't try to rape anyone we cant have a loose cannon like that on the SC train ". I know id be pretty fired up if I was getting falsely accused of heinous crimes. Are you a judge being interviewed for a job on the Supreme Court? Its an exceptional position requiring exceptional people. Somehow I think this gets continually glossed over by Kav's defenders. This isn't some ordinary dude, being tried for guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. It's the supreme court. 9 people out of the whole country have that distinction at any one time. That's way beyond even the top 1% of the top 1%. Having as much stink as he does, and having as violent a temperament as he does, these just won't cut it. His life isn't being destroyed, but he's being considered for one of the most prestigious jobs in this country. A normal person with normal temperament and a whiff of sexual assault to him is far below what should be the threshold here. It's very clear that Republicans are letting their politics, and their concern for the midterms, taint their decision-making. This is not behavior that should be encouraged or rewarded.
Top 1% of Top 1%? If we take 9 out of 300 million, and expect them to be the best, that means we are talking about the best 1 out of 30 million. Even if we assume that senators and people like that should be of similar quality, and get 300 people as important as the supreme court judges, that still means that they should be the best one out of a million.
I highly doubt that Kavanaugh is the best out of any million people you could find.
|
On October 01 2018 07:36 Tachion wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2018 06:41 NewSunshine wrote:On October 01 2018 06:19 Gorsameth wrote:On October 01 2018 06:15 Taelshin wrote:
If you were being accused of rape and possible attempted murder from 36 years ago with out any proof or tangible evidence how would you react? @plansix. I thought his testimony was fine considering the situation. Talking to some more of my left leaning friends they are already on the same train your on, " The even if he didn't try to rape anyone we cant have a loose cannon like that on the SC train ". I know id be pretty fired up if I was getting falsely accused of heinous crimes. Are you a judge being interviewed for a job on the Supreme Court? Its an exceptional position requiring exceptional people. Somehow I think this gets continually glossed over by Kav's defenders. This isn't some ordinary dude, being tried for guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. It's the supreme court. 9 people out of the whole country have that distinction at any one time. That's way beyond even the top 1% of the top 1%. Having as much stink as he does, and having as violent a temperament as he does, these just won't cut it. His life isn't being destroyed, but he's being considered for one of the most prestigious jobs in this country. A normal person with normal temperament and a whiff of sexual assault to him is far below what should be the threshold here. It's very clear that Republicans are letting their politics, and their concern for the midterms, taint their decision-making. This is not behavior that should be encouraged or rewarded. That poll a few days ago that said that 54% of Republican's want Kavanaugh confirmed even if the accusations of sexual assault were true still sticks with me. It's stuff like that which remind me that the culture between the parties, not just the politics, is so very different. Throwing tantrums, lying, peddling conspiracies, and blaming democrats like Kavanaugh did is just Trumpism at its core. Republicans are used to it by now. Ain't gonna change many minds with that petty stuff.
Support for him's high right now because as introvert relentlessly asserts, there's not much hard evidence yet. Roy Moore's support stayed high for a long time as well, until it just became obvious that he was dodgy as fuck.
A mere case of perjury isn't enough to stop a supreme court justice being nominated, because honesty in judges is a benefit, not a requirement. Or something?
|
I think someone else mentioned this, but what galls me the most about Kavanaugh's performance [beyon throwing a mantrum] is how he attempts to mythologize himself as some sort of scrappy, started-from-nothing, choirboy. He was born into an upper middle class family. Went to a prestigious, very expensive prep school that send kids to Ivies. Went to Yale as a legacy. Definitely drank a lot, likely to excess.
It shouldn't be hard this hard to admit you were born privileged and that you were kind of a screwup in your younger years. That's fine, plenty of people are and then they grow up and get better. None of that is disqualifying; however, lying about it, in my mind, is.
Kavanaugh has some redeeming qualities. He probably worked hard in sports and academia. He probably went to church regularly (for whats that worth, I myself never go to church but read the Bible daily). He probably volunteered, did civic-engagement type stuff. But to pretend that was the only side of him is disingenuous and distasteful.
|
On October 01 2018 06:15 Taelshin wrote:
If you were being accused of rape and possible attempted murder from 36 years ago with out any proof or tangible evidence how would you react? @plansix. I thought his testimony was fine considering the situation. Talking to some more of my left leaning friends they are already on the same train your on, " The even if he didn't try to rape anyone we cant have a loose cannon like that on the SC train ". I know id be pretty fired up if I was getting falsely accused of heinous crimes.
In the Senate, being questioned by a Senator elected to represent an entire state? More respectful and far less churlish. Crimes or otherwise, there is no excuse for how he held himself when questioned by the Democratic Senators. They didn’t accuse him and they have a job to do. It’s the god damn senate, one does not snap back at senators during the confirmation process.
|
On October 01 2018 06:19 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2018 06:15 Taelshin wrote:
If you were being accused of rape and possible attempted murder from 36 years ago with out any proof or tangible evidence how would you react? @plansix. I thought his testimony was fine considering the situation. Talking to some more of my left leaning friends they are already on the same train your on, " The even if he didn't try to rape anyone we cant have a loose cannon like that on the SC train ". I know id be pretty fired up if I was getting falsely accused of heinous crimes. Are you a judge being interviewed for a job on the Supreme Court? Its an exceptional position requiring exceptional people.
Well he's about to undergo his 7th FBI background check.
Meanwhile Ford will have her first.
Just a hunch, they will find far more dirt on Ford, just depends on whether the biased mainstream media will even report on it or whether they will usher her quietly away and accept the inevitable.
|
On October 01 2018 10:14 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2018 06:19 Gorsameth wrote:On October 01 2018 06:15 Taelshin wrote:
If you were being accused of rape and possible attempted murder from 36 years ago with out any proof or tangible evidence how would you react? @plansix. I thought his testimony was fine considering the situation. Talking to some more of my left leaning friends they are already on the same train your on, " The even if he didn't try to rape anyone we cant have a loose cannon like that on the SC train ". I know id be pretty fired up if I was getting falsely accused of heinous crimes. Are you a judge being interviewed for a job on the Supreme Court? Its an exceptional position requiring exceptional people. Well he's about to undergo his 7th FBI background check. Meanwhile Ford will have her first. Just a hunch, they will find far more dirt on Ford, just depends on whether the biased mainstream media will even report on it or whether they will usher her quietly away and accept the inevitable.
What kind of dirt on Ford do you expect to see here? That she has a long history of accusing men of crimes for political gain? I mean, I'm honestly curious, I'm interested in seeing what Fox News is telling people to think about this, since I can't watch it directly.
|
WH and Trump doubling down on the idea that the FBI isnt really being constrained. Says the lefts complaints are unreasonable. For once I agree with the guy: let's wait and see. However get your hoses ready because I smell smoke! 
|
I don't remember seeing anybody complaining about the duration of the investigation. Donald Dump's hitting the pipe again.
|
Funny thing about that "FBI looking into Judge Kavanaugh", the FBI isn't allowed to interview Kavanaughif the reports about the limitations of time and scope are correct.
|
Apparently Canada and the US has reached a NAFTA deal. Don't have much except early reports, but section 19 remains, dairy access is basically the same as the TPP agreement that the US bailed from, and Canadian auto industry got exemptions on future tariffs up to a certain level.
Steel and aluminum tariffs are still in place for now, and we have to see if IP rules are included (especially with generic drugs) - though given everything else I expect almost nothing has changed.
All-in-all, it seems like a whole lot of nonsense for very little gain for the United States.
|
On October 01 2018 12:30 WolfintheSheep wrote:
All-in-all, it seems like a whole lot of nonsense for very little gain for the United States.
Trump negotiating 101. No doubt he will sell it as a massive victory and his base will eat it up. Just like how he saved us from NK.
|
United States42778 Posts
On October 01 2018 13:04 On_Slaught wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2018 12:30 WolfintheSheep wrote:
All-in-all, it seems like a whole lot of nonsense for very little gain for the United States. Trump negotiating 101. No doubt he will sell it as a massive victory and his base will eat it up. Just like how he saved us from NK.
On which note, the NK stuff took a strange turn.
I was really tough and so was he, and we went back and forth. And then we fell in love, OK? No, really, he wrote me beautiful letters, and they’re great letters. We fell in love. - The President
|
On October 01 2018 12:30 WolfintheSheep wrote:Apparently Canada and the US has reached a NAFTA deal. Don't have much except early reports, but section 19 remains, dairy access is basically the same as the TPP agreement that the US bailed from, and Canadian auto industry got exemptions on future tariffs up to a certain level. Steel and aluminum tariffs are still in place for now, and we have to see if IP rules are included (especially with generic drugs) - though given everything else I expect almost nothing has changed. All-in-all, it seems like a whole lot of nonsense for very little gain for the United States.
But it can be notched up as a win for Trump and something he can trumpet around as a victory for his cause. It can be a good morale booster for midterms and fuel the story that Trump keeps winning. Though from what I've been seeing, NAFTA (or USMCA with its fancy new name) has been more of a central concern for Canadians than Americans (maybe the Mexicans also cared). I don't know if it will resonate too much, particularly with Kavanaugh on the headlines right now.
Comments on the IP law section are vague, and most what I can find are PR words from both negotiating teams on how it is a great deal for both countries. Kind of worrying.
|
I wanted to ask Introvert in the thread I read it in, but that would be off-topic. I'm moving this question here because I want to truly understand your position, and that's not something that should be done in website feedback.
Intro, you mentioned Chesterton's fence. If you agree with that concept, I would like you to explain how the overall trend of history is still consistent with it; additionally, how it pertains to the United States now.
From my (admittedly young and probably uninformed) perspective, I see many things as having gotten better for the average citizen over time. I see Chesterton's fence, and I look at gay marriage; further back, I would see divine right and lack of suffrage, and even farther still, how the Roman Empire originally dealt with Christianity.
I would imagine that the above positions that were cast aside as being on this fence back then, but I can't think of any examples where changing traditions has been significantly worse than what I see as stagnation. To me, the concept of this fence seems to be in the way of progress. Obviously, you even bringing it up means you have a different view, and I don't like the certainty I have in that belief that it's dumb. That certainty, while reassuring, also feels dangerous; if I decide to further cement my ill-informed opinion, I fear that I will become one of the things I dislike, that being an adult with a closed mind and unshakeable beliefs, closed to questions and challenges.
Feel free to rip my previous opinion apart as much as you want, since I know that it's never even been exposed to the other side. Thank you.
|
On October 01 2018 14:29 Howie_Dewitt wrote:
I wanted to ask Introvert in the thread I read it in, but that would be off-topic. I'm moving this question here because I want to truly understand your position, and that's not something that should be done in website feedback.
Intro, you mentioned Chesterton's fence. If you agree with that concept, I would like you to explain how the overall trend of history is still consistent with it; additionally, how it pertains to the United States now.
From my (admittedly young and probably uninformed) perspective, I see many things as having gotten better for the average citizen over time. I see Chesterton's fence, and I look at gay marriage; further back, I would see divine right and lack of suffrage, and even farther still, how the Roman Empire originally dealt with Christianity.
I would imagine that the above positions that were cast aside as being on this fence back then, but I can't think of any examples where changing traditions has been significantly worse than what I see as stagnation. To me, the concept of this fence seems to be in the way of progress. Obviously, you even bringing it up means you have a different view, and I don't like the certainty I have in that belief that it's dumb. That certainty, while reassuring, also feels dangerous; if I decide to further cement my ill-informed opinion, I fear that I will become one of the things I dislike, that being an adult with a closed mind and unshakeable beliefs, closed to questions and challenges.
Feel free to rip my previous opinion apart as much as you want, since I know that it's never even been exposed to the other side. Thank you.
Quite a thing to drop on Sunday night! To be (very) brief..
Suffice it to say for now that I dont think you are looking deeply enough. Things like gay marriage are on the periphery, the more foundational "tradition", in your example, would be marriage itself. Same with suffrage. Conservatives dont oppose advancement or altering traditions, but throwing them out or making serious alterations with no thought of why they exist, and how they managed to survive, is a concern that is a central part of the analysis. For perhaps it is with the aid of these traditions that we advance at all, layers building on each other. In particular many people would actually give great credit to the Church and Christianity generally on that count, a very traditional yet steadily advancing institution.
Such an explanation might seem to be too broad, maybe, to be of use. But take as an example the sexual revolution of the last century. Maybe you don't see it this way, but it seems that among some good that was done, great harm was as well. Not enough thought, or consideration for why things were the way they were, may have slingshot us too far in the other direction. My point here is not to argue the merits of that argument, but to present it as an example of a type. If you could conceive that it is at least possible that it went to far, then you should be able to apply it to other things as well. In fact, reading Chesterton would do you a world of good on that score  much of his writing is amazingly relevant, considering it was a century ago.
reply here or PM and I'll see what I can do.
|
On October 01 2018 12:30 WolfintheSheep wrote: dairy access is basically the same as the TPP agreement that the US bailed from,
On October 01 2018 12:30 WolfintheSheep wrote:
All-in-all, it seems like a whole lot of nonsense for very little gain for the United States.
that is not what i'm reading from the liberal cheerleading squad also known as teh CBC.
"In exchange for some U.S. concessions on a dispute mechanism, Canada is expected to give U.S. farmers greater access to Canada's dairy market by increasing the quota on foreign imports."
"Some of what Canada has agreed to could be politically challenging for the Liberal government, especially in Quebec, where dairy farmers hold electoral sway in certain ridings."
"perhaps most importantly for dairy producers, Canada has agreed to end what's called class 7 pricing, a milk class created in March 2017 that slashed prices on some Canadian-produced milk ingredients — like protein concentrates, skim milk and whole milk powder — used to make cheese and yogurt. The co-ordinated price cut made the American equivalents uncompetitive."
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/nafta-finale-sunday-deadline-trump-1.4844623
i hope Justin does what his dad did regarding the complainers in Quebec. Who cares about a bunch of dairy farmers. Canada made the correct compromise.
The key to this deal is how Ontario's auto sector fares. There are no details about how this will impact Ontario's auto sector.. it took a big punch in the face a few years ago due to changes in what constituted "built in canada" and "built in USA"... and bunch of auto parts makers in south western Ontario bit the dust. Until this part of the deal is unpacked its impossible to come to any definite conclusion on this deal.
None of this matters much to me any longer though.. i'm moving to Cheektowaga, New York on December 1.
|
So has Trump won the trade war then? Prospects didn't look good at first but it seems like the US is doing good out of his deals so far.
|
We haven’t won? We had to borrow money from China to pay off our farmers with welfare because the trade war affected them the most so far...
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
