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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 659

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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.


If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 30 2018 17:40 GMT
#13161
On August 31 2018 02:35 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
pay relative to private section was more about the specific claims that this won't affect the ability to retain or attract new talent.

Pretty sure the constant threat of your entire department being defunded by the White House and instability undercuts all of that anyways.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 30 2018 18:40 GMT
#13162
On the topic that DeSantis may or may not be a super duper racist, it appears he was an admin of a less than Not-Racist facebook group.

Source

Now I will say, ThinkProgress is not the most reliable source in the world, but DeSantis being an admin of the facebook group has been reported on in the past. And the group is still be promoted by people who work for DeSantis.

It is nice when people live up to all your expectations.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
August 30 2018 19:04 GMT
#13163
On August 31 2018 03:40 Plansix wrote:
On the topic that DeSantis may or may not be a super duper racist, it appears he was an admin of a less than Not-Racist facebook group.

Source

Now I will say, ThinkProgress is not the most reliable source in the world, but DeSantis being an admin of the facebook group has been reported on in the past. And the group is still be promoted by people who work for DeSantis.

It is nice when people live up to all your expectations.


He might be racist, but I don't think that means his monkey wording was racism spilling over. I still think it was intended to be easily dismissed by the vast majority of republicans while still pissing off democrats.

Few things upset republicans more than one of their own being called a racist. Get the other side to call you racist so that your supporters actually vote is a good method. At this point, the word 'monkey' has caused so many people so much headache that I refuse to believe even the most garbage of human beings don't know what they are getting into.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 30 2018 19:14 GMT
#13164
The best part is that it can be both a dog whistle and a way to galvanize other republicans to resist further claims DeSantis is racist. But given all of that, I don’t see any benefit to not doing it. Democrats won’t win that race by chasing Republicans on the fence.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
August 30 2018 19:43 GMT
#13165
--- Nuked ---
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-30 19:48:46
August 30 2018 19:47 GMT
#13166
I wouldn’t be worried about it. Everyone makes the mistake form time to time. People were nice enough to correct me when I went all foot in mouth on race issues and I took it in stride. The worst thing you can do it be defensive on the subject, which will mean people are uncomfortable telling you when you say something that might be a bit “off color”. So long as you mean well and project that you are willing to say you’re sorry, you won’t have problems. The same goes for your mother.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
IyMoon
Profile Joined April 2016
United States1249 Posts
August 30 2018 19:49 GMT
#13167
On August 31 2018 04:43 JimmiC wrote:
I actually really hate this dog whistle thing, it makes me nervous about accidentally offending people by complimenting them.

My mother is a very outgoing senior and loves children and is a positive optimist. When she see them out with their parents and they are being well behaved she often compliments the parents on how cute and well behaved they are and asks the parents if she can give the kids a sucker. Some say yes some say no but I don't think any have been offended by hearing that their kids are cute and well behaved.

Now after reading about the articulate thing (forget about the monkey talk for a moment because to me that is a different level). I am wondering if I should advise my mother (who looks white) to only do this to white families because other races may think that calling their kids is well behaved is a back handed compliment, because they won't know that she does it to all families. Which will then push to a different kind of racism because now she is only complimenting white people. So the safest thing is just to not compliment anyone, which is sad.

My question after that long winded story is what do you advise? And if she is friendly and doesn't have tone of surprise can she continue how she is?


Aslong as she doesn't say anything about how behaved the kids are for being non white its fine.

Statements of fact are different from statements of surprise.
I think your kids are so cute and well behaved!
Wow, I can't believe your kids are so cute and so well behaved!

Top seems nice, second one can be insulting
Something witty
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
August 30 2018 19:53 GMT
#13168
On August 31 2018 04:04 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 31 2018 03:40 Plansix wrote:
On the topic that DeSantis may or may not be a super duper racist, it appears he was an admin of a less than Not-Racist facebook group.

Source

Now I will say, ThinkProgress is not the most reliable source in the world, but DeSantis being an admin of the facebook group has been reported on in the past. And the group is still be promoted by people who work for DeSantis.

It is nice when people live up to all your expectations.


He might be racist, but I don't think that means his monkey wording was racism spilling over. I still think it was intended to be easily dismissed by the vast majority of republicans while still pissing off democrats.

Few things upset republicans more than one of their own being called a racist. Get the other side to call you racist so that your supporters actually vote is a good method. At this point, the word 'monkey' has caused so many people so much headache that I refuse to believe even the most garbage of human beings don't know what they are getting into.

Is this the political pragmatism of ignoring obvious dog-whistling, or you actual think it wasn’t a dog whistle?

The latter is my position, but at least three people thought that was ridiculously naive and/or ignoring myriad years of American history.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
JimmiC
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada22817 Posts
August 30 2018 20:02 GMT
#13169
--- Nuked ---
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22649 Posts
August 30 2018 20:06 GMT
#13170
On August 31 2018 04:43 JimmiC wrote:
I actually really hate this dog whistle thing, it makes me nervous about accidentally offending people by complimenting them.

My mother is a very outgoing senior and loves children and is a positive optimist. When she see them out with their parents and they are being well behaved she often compliments the parents on how cute and well behaved they are and asks the parents if she can give the kids a sucker. Some say yes some say no but I don't think any have been offended by hearing that their kids are cute and well behaved.

Now after reading about the articulate thing (forget about the monkey talk for a moment because to me that is a different level). I am wondering if I should advise my mother (who looks white) to only do this to white families because other races may think that calling their kids is well behaved is a back handed compliment, because they won't know that she does it to all families. Which will then push to a different kind of racism because now she is only complimenting white people. So the safest thing is just to not compliment anyone, which is sad.

My question after that long winded story is what do you advise? And if she is friendly and doesn't have tone of surprise can she continue how she is?
Context is everything.

"I vote for him because he is so articulate" isn't racist on its own. regardless of the color of the person's skin.
"My opponent might be articulate but he will screw things up anyway" can be in certain situations. Especially when instead of 'screw things up" you use another even more potentially racist statement.

I would certainly not worry about your mother calling children cute or well behaved.

And as said, if someone does feel insulted by something you say then apologize and it will normally be fine.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
August 30 2018 20:20 GMT
#13171
It only gets really obvious when people double down on their fake idioms.

Like last year (I think) when there was that whole "gorilla/guerilla tennis" thing. Guerilla tennis was not a thing ever, and "monkey it up" is not a real idiom either (and contextually wasn't close to the actual verb usage of monkey).

And it should be really easy to say "oops, I stumbled on words", but no, people keep insisting that a never used phrase is actually really common, despite Google existing.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
August 30 2018 20:34 GMT
#13172
On August 31 2018 04:43 JimmiC wrote:
I actually really hate this dog whistle thing, it makes me nervous about accidentally offending people by complimenting them.

My mother is a very outgoing senior and loves children and is a positive optimist. When she see them out with their parents and they are being well behaved she often compliments the parents on how cute and well behaved they are and asks the parents if she can give the kids a sucker. Some say yes some say no but I don't think any have been offended by hearing that their kids are cute and well behaved.

Now after reading about the articulate thing (forget about the monkey talk for a moment because to me that is a different level). I am wondering if I should advise my mother (who looks white) to only do this to white families because other races may think that calling their kids is well behaved is a back handed compliment, because they won't know that she does it to all families. Which will then push to a different kind of racism because now she is only complimenting white people. So the safest thing is just to not compliment anyone, which is sad.

My question after that long winded story is what do you advise? And if she is friendly and doesn't have tone of surprise can she continue how she is?

Is your mother a politician who happens to be an admin to a white supremacist group? No? then you don't need to be worried. If she offends a parent I am sure they will be happy to tell her why she shouldn't use certain phrases even as a term of endearment.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 30 2018 20:35 GMT
#13173
Agreed. I have never heard “monkey it up” in my life and had a hard time finding anything that referenced it. The entire thing is so dumb, even other members of the Florida GOP are calling for him to apologize for the “stupid comment”.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-30 20:42:02
August 30 2018 20:41 GMT
#13174
On August 31 2018 04:53 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 31 2018 04:04 Mohdoo wrote:
On August 31 2018 03:40 Plansix wrote:
On the topic that DeSantis may or may not be a super duper racist, it appears he was an admin of a less than Not-Racist facebook group.

Source

Now I will say, ThinkProgress is not the most reliable source in the world, but DeSantis being an admin of the facebook group has been reported on in the past. And the group is still be promoted by people who work for DeSantis.

It is nice when people live up to all your expectations.


He might be racist, but I don't think that means his monkey wording was racism spilling over. I still think it was intended to be easily dismissed by the vast majority of republicans while still pissing off democrats.

Few things upset republicans more than one of their own being called a racist. Get the other side to call you racist so that your supporters actually vote is a good method. At this point, the word 'monkey' has caused so many people so much headache that I refuse to believe even the most garbage of human beings don't know what they are getting into.

Is this the political pragmatism of ignoring obvious dog-whistling, or you actual think it wasn’t a dog whistle?

The latter is my position, but at least three people thought that was ridiculously naive and/or ignoring myriad years of American history.


I think it is double-purposed. He wouldn't have said it if he didn't think it would cause backlash that ultimately helped snowflakes feel persecuted, but it has the added benefit of also appealing to racists.

Primary purpose is to make himself a center of "unfair persecution", but it also is the sort of thing that can only help him with conservatives. Even if a conservative isn't racist, they will likely not have a problem with something so subtle and deniable. But the racist ones who love this sort of language will enjoy it. So it really had no disadvantage. But I don't think he would have said it for purely dog whistle purposes. He definitely only said it in hopes of being the new center piece of "how dare they call me racist!! " kinda stuff.
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17915 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-30 21:08:21
August 30 2018 20:57 GMT
#13175
On August 31 2018 05:20 WolfintheSheep wrote:
It only gets really obvious when people double down on their fake idioms.

Like last year (I think) when there was that whole "gorilla/guerilla tennis" thing. Guerilla tennis was not a thing ever, and "monkey it up" is not a real idiom either (and contextually wasn't close to the actual verb usage of monkey).

And it should be really easy to say "oops, I stumbled on words", but no, people keep insisting that a never used phrase is actually really common, despite Google existing.

people hanging on every half syllable of JJ Redick trying to say he was racist against chinese people was pretty hilarious stuff. Dwane Casey : "some of the guys who said the most vile derogatory things to me ended up becoming life long friends".

regarding this guerilla tennis thing.,.
guerilla tennis was a term nike used to promote and//or amplify the andre agassi//pete sampras rivalry.
so umm ya guerilla tennis was a thing,

https://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2015/08/pete-sampras-andre-agassi-tennis-match-streets-of-new-york

if the only racism people can find are a few syllables here and there.. and a few hacked geo-map apps of New York city .. as a jew whose lifelong heroes include jerry seinfeld, andy kaufman, ayn rand, Judy Sheindlin, and Barry Scheck... i think i'll be ok. i have some friends who are freaking out about the modified map apps thing.. i guess they don't have enough excitement in their lives and they need to spice things up.

like Dwane Casey i've been on the receiving end of some racial slurs. its not the end of the world.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 30 2018 21:03 GMT
#13176
You have to pretty god damn stupid to use the term gorilla tennis from a 1995 tennis commercial to discribe a black tennis player in any way. That would have gotten the same amount of shit in 1995. It was just stupid.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17915 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-30 21:07:08
August 30 2018 21:04 GMT
#13177
it deserves about as much attention as me calling Jared Cannonier the killer gorilla. any how, the term "guerilla tennis" has been used in the past. had this commentator guy had a history of BS i could see firing him. firing him was silly.

i'm really glad Dan Shulman diversified his income and minimized his time on ESPN. good career move to avoid the idiots running ESPN as much as possible.

i'll need a flow chart informing me of what animals i'm allowed to call certain athletes.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-30 21:10:34
August 30 2018 21:09 GMT
#13178
Yeah, you should avoid calling black people any form of gorilla. It’s a bad look.

But its really not that complicated. Don't call black people apes, gorillas or monkeys.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22649 Posts
August 30 2018 21:17 GMT
#13179
On August 31 2018 06:04 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
it deserves about as much attention as me calling Jared Cannonier the killer gorilla. any how, the term "guerilla tennis" has been used in the past. had this commentator guy had a history of BS i could see firing him. firing him was silly.

i'm really glad Dan Shulman diversified his income and minimized his time on ESPN. good career move to avoid the idiots running ESPN as much as possible.

i'll need a flow chart informing me of what animals i'm allowed to call certain athletes.
Any form of ape.
I'd avoid dogs.
definitely not pigs.


It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17915 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-30 21:23:02
August 30 2018 21:18 GMT
#13180
On August 31 2018 06:17 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 31 2018 06:04 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
it deserves about as much attention as me calling Jared Cannonier the killer gorilla. any how, the term "guerilla tennis" has been used in the past. had this commentator guy had a history of BS i could see firing him. firing him was silly.

i'm really glad Dan Shulman diversified his income and minimized his time on ESPN. good career move to avoid the idiots running ESPN as much as possible.

i'll need a flow chart informing me of what animals i'm allowed to call certain athletes.
Any form of ape.
I'd avoid dogs.
definitely not pigs.

Sylvester Ritter is the "Junk Yard Dog". Jerome Williiams is the "Junk Yard Dog". Eddie Alvarez frequently says "dont bring out the dog in me". and again, Jared Cannonier is the Killer Gorilla.

This is just off the top of my head. I'm sure I can find dozens of other examples.

On August 31 2018 06:09 Plansix wrote:
Yeah, you should avoid calling black people any form of gorilla. It’s a bad look.
But its really not that complicated. Don't call black people apes, gorillas or monkeys.

generally speaking, athletes like being called various kinds of animals.

what about beast? can i call a black athlete a beast? Jared wants to be called gorilla. am i allowed to call him a gorilla then? or no? i'm too lazy to research all this stuff... just PM me the excel spreadsheet and i'll have my admin assistant give me a synopsis.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
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