EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 5686
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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LightSpectra
United States2747 Posts
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EnDeR_
Spain2913 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27013 Posts
On April 24 2026 00:32 LightSpectra wrote: Why wouldn't Trump pardon his accomplice? Not even Trump can be that dumb, surely? Epstein-adjacent stuff is one of the few areas his base has shown any propensity to turn on him on, pardoning Maxwell is nae going to go down well. Trump’s also never particularly shown loyalty to other humans, certainly not if it harms him in any way. Stranger things have happened, I would be genuinely surprised if this happened though | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46079 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27013 Posts
On April 24 2026 00:41 EnDeR_ wrote: In the UK you usually register to vote at the same time you register for council tax. You have to provide proof of address (normally a utility bill or rental agreement) and proof of id (for me it was passport, but driving licences were also allowed). You submit the documents electronically and if you tick the vote by mail option, then a couple of weeks before the election you receive some mail with the voting envelope, you sign it, seal it and put in the mail and that was that. Mind you this was for local elections, as a noncitizen you can't vote in national elections. Is there anywhere you haven’t lived haha? You can also use expired documents, as I have in the past. So I could still use a passport that wasn’t valid for international travel but it was acceptable ID There are also provisions for people who don’t have any photo ID, I’m not familiar with how painless those are but one can apply in the lead up to an election. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14146 Posts
It would be another thing if there wasn't an halucinated problem of voter fraud in america, specifically kept going by one side without evidence or example to support them. | ||
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LightSpectra
United States2747 Posts
On April 24 2026 01:24 Sermokala wrote: It would be one thing if there was a good faith effort to make sure that people who are allowed to vote are not disenfranchized to vote under stricker rules. Instead you see an institutional effort to make it harder to vote by republicans at every turn. To make it harder for demographics to get the ID they need to "securely" vote. It would be another thing if there wasn't an halucinated problem of voter fraud in america, specifically kept going by one side without evidence or example to support them. Yeah, that sums it up for me. My perspective on "voting fraud" as a Democrat is if someone said "man-eating gophers are killing thousands in Idaho and Democrats won't do anything to stop it because they won't vote for our Instantly Execute Critics of Israel Act!" and it's just horrendously dumb and bad faith in just about every way possible. | ||
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dyhb
United States419 Posts
On April 24 2026 00:11 WombaT wrote:For me an American Fascism looks something like: Most of this looks like bog-standard Republican stuff. As in, Reagan was a fascist because he incorporated overtly religious themes, liked capitalism, hated socialism, and believed in American exceptionalism. This might be exactly what you’re saying btw. 1. Pretty heavy religious component. And by religious, specifically Christian. 2. Capitalism good. 3. Socialism (or even SocDem stuff) bad. 4. American cultural exceptionalism 5. American exceptionalism in the geopolitical sphere But there’s this trend of opinion on Trump that he represents an actual departure from the traditional Republican Party into fascism. This is pretty incompatible with the big-tent-fascism broad assignations. As I see it, he went very authoritarian and reactionary (prior cultural dominance of the left, Obama-era upper class opinion). He’s also very overly corrupt. The furthest extent of his fascism is state ownership of industry and statements on that line. What I’m thinking is true here about the views of others on fascism is that it’s fundamentally identical to authoritarianism with the right-wing flavor. The definitions that are broader than mine and to the left of mine frequently and simply combine banal right-coded concepts (religious, American exceptionalism, narrow-American-interest foreign policy, capitalist) and authoritarian viewpoints (expansive view of executive power, using state power to fund and further right-of-center cultural interests). | ||
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misirlou
Portugal3304 Posts
On April 24 2026 02:48 dyhb wrote: Most of this looks like bog-standard Republican stuff. We've been saying that but ya'll just been throwing tantrums | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24041 Posts
On April 24 2026 02:48 dyhb wrote: Most of this looks like bog-standard Republican stuff.+ Show Spoiler + As in, Reagan was a fascist because he incorporated overtly religious themes, liked capitalism, hated socialism, and believed in American exceptionalism. This might be exactly what you’re saying btw. But there’s this trend of opinion on Trump that he represents an actual departure from the traditional Republican Party into fascism. This is pretty incompatible with the big-tent-fascism broad assignations. As I see it, he went very authoritarian and reactionary (prior cultural dominance of the left, Obama-era upper class opinion). He’s also very overly corrupt. The furthest extent of his fascism is state ownership of industry and statements on that line. What I’m thinking is true here about the views of others on fascism is that it’s fundamentally identical to authoritarianism with the right-wing flavor. The definitions that are broader than mine and to the left of mine frequently and simply combine banal right-coded concepts (religious, American exceptionalism, narrow-American-interest foreign policy, capitalist) and authoritarian viewpoints (expansive view of executive power, using state power to fund and further right-of-center cultural interests). It's pretty bog standard US stuff really. That's part of the underlying mechanism for it winning the popular vote. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27013 Posts
On April 24 2026 02:48 dyhb wrote: Most of this looks like bog-standard Republican stuff. As in, Reagan was a fascist because he incorporated overtly religious themes, liked capitalism, hated socialism, and believed in American exceptionalism. This might be exactly what you’re saying btw. But there’s this trend of opinion on Trump that he represents an actual departure from the traditional Republican Party into fascism. This is pretty incompatible with the big-tent-fascism broad assignations. As I see it, he went very authoritarian and reactionary (prior cultural dominance of the left, Obama-era upper class opinion). He’s also very overly corrupt. The furthest extent of his fascism is state ownership of industry and statements on that line. What I’m thinking is true here about the views of others on fascism is that it’s fundamentally identical to authoritarianism with the right-wing flavor. The definitions that are broader than mine and to the left of mine frequently and simply combine banal right-coded concepts (religious, American exceptionalism, narrow-American-interest foreign policy, capitalist) and authoritarian viewpoints (expansive view of executive power, using state power to fund and further right-of-center cultural interests). I wouldn’t consider them Fascist necessarily, merely tenets of what would be an American Fascism. Which I don’t think you have without a leader or regime to tick other boxes and push things over certain thresholds ‘Everyone who disagrees with me is a traitor’ in various forms would be a point of pretty profound difference between a Trump and a Reagan | ||
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misirlou
Portugal3304 Posts
"Fatima, futebol, fado" they were called - Fatima being a place of a miracle and therefore tied to Catholic values. Go to church and pray. Futebol - Go watch a game and enjoy our athleticism. Fado - portuguese music genre, go to a bar enjoy our culture. The pillars that achieved control and suppressed information and dissent. And the state protection police was the one that was tasked to solve workplace disputes. Any employee falling out of favor with his boss is a call away from being arrested "yes officer, he was talking about unionizing" and that was that. | ||
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EnDeR_
Spain2913 Posts
On April 24 2026 01:24 WombaT wrote: Is there anywhere you haven’t lived haha? You can also use expired documents, as I have in the past. So I could still use a passport that wasn’t valid for international travel but it was acceptable ID There are also provisions for people who don’t have any photo ID, I’m not familiar with how painless those are but one can apply in the lead up to an election. Lived in the US, UK, Germany and Spain (not in that order). Fairly ballsy for a noncitizen to show up with expired id so I never tried that :D I never tried voting in Germany or America, but now in Spain I received an envelope automatically registering me in the electoral roll after I got my "padron" (a sort of proof of address certificate) which is necessary to register to access healthcare locally. | ||
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dyhb
United States419 Posts
On April 24 2026 02:55 misirlou wrote: I wish to identify and separate if Trump is a fascist just like Reagan was a fascist (so we'll have to use other words for why Trump is bad), or Reagan wasn't a fascist, and the Republican descent into fascism began with the Tea Party or 2014 Republican Midterms or Trump himself.We've been saying that but ya'll just been throwing tantrums Just note that religious, capitalist, anti-socialist, and American exceptionalism has very little to do with anything fascist. It's just a collection of viewpoints primarily associated with the right-of-center to right-wing. Imagine if I told you American fascism was 1. Areligious/anti-religious 2. Capitalism bad 3. Socialism Good 4. America is unexceptional culturally 5. America is unexceptional in the geopolitical sphere. No objection? When I look at some very VERY broad lists, I wonder if the term actually has meaning beyond "right of center." Again, you don't have to care. I don't use the term in the way others use the term. I'm intrigued at the why among people unlike me that choose the term. On April 24 2026 03:06 WombaT wrote: I'd call your list the tenets of majority-accepted right-wing values from at least the 1960s to today. Nothing in there tells me "Right of center, but also Fascist right of center." If we pretend that I had listed "as 1. Areligious/anti-religious 2. Capitalism bad 3. Socialism Good 4. America is unexceptional culturally 5. America is unexceptional in the geopolitical sphere are tenets of American fascism, I would 100% expect you to ask me where the fascism starts and the bog-standard left-wing viewpoints from the late 1960s to today. This is the difference between also-held beliefs by the fascists (no real argument there), and sincerely-held-thus-fascist. Like if I identified 3 things that Luigi Mangione believed, like deep distrust of big corporations esp health insurance corporations, the present political system being broken, the environment is under threat by fossil fuel companies, can I say truthfully "These three characterize the pro-assassination left." (I say no, not determinative, but if you're listing your 5 as American Fascism, I think those follow the same logic of characterization)I wouldn’t consider them Fascist necessarily, merely tenets of what would be an American Fascism. Which I don’t think you have without a leader or regime to tick other boxes and push things over certain thresholds ‘Everyone who disagrees with me is a traitor’ in various forms would be a point of pretty profound difference between a Trump and a Reagan But if you're saying them to merely add that American Fascism also ticks those boxes, I think you're correct under the left's viewpoint of fascism in general. | ||
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Artesimo
Germany573 Posts
I live in germany, vote in germany, and the last time I have not voted by mail was when I lived in a small village I think. And that was because there I would meet some people I care to chat with. So something like 16 years of voting by mail, that includes 3 elections where I was living in a city with my voting location being less than 5min on foot away from my home. No point in queuing up or keeping a date in mind when I can just chuck a letter in the mailbox on my way to work. | ||
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Jankisa
Croatia1415 Posts
On April 24 2026 00:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Baal, a bunch of us (including KwarK, Falling, maybenexttime, LightSpectra, WombaT, Luolis, Gorsameth, Simberto, Harris1st, justanothertownie, Velr, misirlou, Geiko, and I) have responded to your posts regarding in-person voter ID, non-existent widespread voter fraud, and/or fascist cheating Republicans. You asked some questions and received some answers. You made some comments and received some responses from a variety of posters who have a variety of backgrounds and live in a variety of countries. Try not to be so flippant and dismissive of counterpoints and criticism. I honestly have no idea why so many people take this guy seriously and try to engage with him. He, to me, seems like a very troubled individual who has spent most of his time since he started posting here (again, I guess) insulting people and bringing up idiotic right wing talking points from the last 5 years. The guy is basically a neo-Nazi, he wished for a mass casualty event in the Mexico thread, he uses the same "edgelord" phrases as white supremacist mass murderers but somehow any time he descends on this thread and derails it with his inane bullshit everyone flocks to engage with it, it's very strange to me. For guys like oBlade or Introvert, I get it, while they have and support many views I find disgusting, they are relatively eloquent and don't seem to be outright nazis, this guy is not, even Ryzda and Jimmy can be entertaining and seem like relatively genuine people, this guy, if he weren't (poorly) hiding his power level would be posting how holocaust was exaggerated, so why anyone takes him seriously is beyond me. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11894 Posts
On April 24 2026 03:29 EnDeR_ wrote: Lived in the US, UK, Germany and Spain (not in that order). Fairly ballsy for a noncitizen to show up with expired id so I never tried that :D I never tried voting in Germany or America, but now in Spain I received an envelope automatically registering me in the electoral roll after I got my "padron" (a sort of proof of address certificate) which is necessary to register to access healthcare locally. If you are an EU citizen, you should have gotten an invitation to vote during local elections in Germany (if a local election was held during the time you were here, about every 4 years there is one.) Non-EU-Citizens don't get to vote in any German elections, and only Germans get to vote in state and national elections. On April 24 2026 04:04 Artesimo wrote: I live in germany, vote in germany, and the last time I have not voted by mail was when I lived in a small village I think. And that was because there I would meet some people I care to chat with. So something like 16 years of voting by mail, that includes 3 elections where I was living in a city with my voting location being less than 5min on foot away from my home. No point in queuing up or keeping a date in mind when I can just chuck a letter in the mailbox on my way to work. I personally really like voting in person. There is something nice about seeing democracy happen. And somehow the elections feel more "real" to me that way. Waiting times are between low and none in my experience. But i have also done voting by mail, for example when i was on vacation when there was an election. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27013 Posts
On April 24 2026 04:03 dyhb wrote: I wish to identify and separate if Trump is a fascist just like Reagan was a fascist (so we'll have to use other words for why Trump is bad), or Reagan wasn't a fascist, and the Republican descent into fascism began with the Tea Party or 2014 Republican Midterms or Trump himself. Just note that religious, capitalist, anti-socialist, and American exceptionalism has very little to do with anything fascist. It's just a collection of viewpoints primarily associated with the right-of-center to right-wing. Imagine if I told you American fascism was 1. Areligious/anti-religious 2. Capitalism bad 3. Socialism Good 4. America is unexceptional culturally 5. America is unexceptional in the geopolitical sphere. No objection? When I look at some very VERY broad lists, I wonder if the term actually has meaning beyond "right of center." Again, you don't have to care. I don't use the term in the way others use the term. I'm intrigued at the why among people unlike me that choose the term. I'd call your list the tenets of majority-accepted right-wing values from at least the 1960s to today. Nothing in there tells me "Right of center, but also Fascist right of center." If we pretend that I had listed "as 1. Areligious/anti-religious 2. Capitalism bad 3. Socialism Good 4. America is unexceptional culturally 5. America is unexceptional in the geopolitical sphere are tenets of American fascism, I would 100% expect you to ask me where the fascism starts and the bog-standard left-wing viewpoints from the late 1960s to today. This is the difference between also-held beliefs by the fascists (no real argument there), and sincerely-held-thus-fascist. Like if I identified 3 things that Luigi Mangione believed, like deep distrust of big corporations esp health insurance corporations, the present political system being broken, the environment is under threat by fossil fuel companies, can I say truthfully "These three characterize the pro-assassination left." (I say no, not determinative, but if you're listing your 5 as American Fascism, I think those follow the same logic of characterization) But if you're saying them to merely add that American Fascism also ticks those boxes, I think you're correct under the left's viewpoint of fascism in general. ‘Plus ofc the more standard stuff that tends to be shared, strong leaders (or collective) militaristic and general nationalistic veneration etc.‘ Which I stuck right after my ‘list’ which wasn’t especially meant to be exhaustive. I’m not particularly trying to argue whether the place is Fascist or not, merely what IMO would likely characterise an American Fascism. Which as an ideology tends to morph quite a bit depending on the culture of a particular locale, given prior arguments such as ‘if it’s not Nazi Germany it’s not Fascist’ Would be happy to expand subsequently don’t quite have the time right now | ||
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LightSpectra
United States2747 Posts
It's what the United States Holocaust Museum uses. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27013 Posts
On April 24 2026 05:54 LightSpectra wrote: Why don't we use Umberto Eco's 14 signs of fascism? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ur-Fascism#Overview It's what the Holocaust Museum uses. Trump 2.0 is hitting like 11 or 12 for me, a few I’m not sure about from Eco’s list. Trump’s lot bloody love tech, especially the pointless shit, but really dislike anything coming from the social sciences, so I’m not sure how to score em on the rejection of modernity point. | ||
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