EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 5685
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22284 Posts
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Doublemint
Austria8744 Posts
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45698 Posts
On April 23 2026 14:25 baal wrote: lol republicans are fascists terrorits. This is why I asked Europeans and not american democrats lol. Thank you for confirming that you're utterly clueless and only interested in parroting Republican talking points and lies. Edit: After reading all the additional responses by Europeans who agree that certain Republicans are indeed fascist, I can't help but laugh at how badly your bad-faith interactions have backfired. Congratulations lol. On April 23 2026 19:34 baal wrote: In the states of California, Illinois, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Pennsylvania, and Vermont you are not required to present any documentation while voting. And in all those states, as well as in the rest of them, the elections continue to be secure. No widespread voter fraud. What a shocker. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26703 Posts
On April 23 2026 19:27 baal wrote: So you think Germans that voted for the nazi party wanted a literal Jewish genocide. You also believe this of republicans, that they are also want the genocide of all immigrants and trans people. lmao you people live in some wild RPG fantasies, you imagine a world where the most powerful country with a military bigger than the rest of the world combined is ruled by a crazy genocidal fascist in control of the senate, house and court, but sadly for the RPG the result is a bit deflating though, deportations, std arab wars and tariffs aren't really that compelling for the narrative but don't let that stop you from living this fantasy to the fullest. These strawmen do get rather tiring, especially when we’ve all done this merry dance before already. Possibly multiple times by now. Fascism isn’t innately genocidal, it certainly can be, it also tends to vary by locale given its propensity to lean very hard into national myths. It also doesn’t tend to go from 0-60 immediately, people don’t tend to like that. It gets in situ and can get more extreme as the Fascism is normalised, or alternatively/additionally, opposition is purged. A bit like the boiling frog analogy. People jump out of the pot if you lead with genocide, but leave the frog to simmer and it might get on board. Suffice to say I don’t think ‘well they’re not killing everyone so it can’t be Fascism because that’s not necessarily a pre-requisite FWIW I dunno if Trump 1.0 went past borderline for me, Trump 2.0 is pretty solidly Fascist, although still of a much milder variety than some other incarnations | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10877 Posts
On April 23 2026 19:50 baal wrote: dude its a fucking photo ID like everywhere else in the world, can't think of anything more basic than that its not a laser moat........ Hi, european here. I get my voting documents by mail and send them back by mail or drop them at the community hall whenever I want before the vote or drop them into the urn on voting day. The only security mechanism is me signing a document that was also in said letter and sending it back or dropping it off with the rest of the stuff (same envelope, somehow diffrent urn if you do it in person). We got national photo IDs (and passports), we don't use them for voting. We have to register ourselves as resident of the city/town/village we live in, once you've done that all the "democracy stuff" gets sent to you by standard mail. Voter fraud is a non-issue and no one is acting weird about it, not even our local wannabe magats. Btw: It's impressive that you still argue Weimar/1930ies-germany despite having proven several times that you're clueless as fuck about the topic. Kudos for the balls. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26703 Posts
On April 23 2026 19:50 baal wrote: dude its a fucking photo ID like everywhere else in the world, can't think of anything more basic than that its not a laser moat. It's a hot topic because it goes for and against their party interest, simple as that Self interest is not all politics is about but its the core of it and many layers are built upon it. I don't really expect politicians to do anything, I expect people to want these things because they are common sense, sadly many don't because they derive their political ideas from their political party, if they tell them "no evidence" or "electoral college good" they parrot it like drones. It was an exaggerated analogy It’s a hot topic because a sizeable chunk of Americans think elections are rigged, when it was not really so prior. Your argument appears to be that policy should be made to placate folks you appear to consider drones. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45698 Posts
On April 23 2026 18:48 baal wrote: \ You are absolutely right, it is obvious republicans are doing that and dont care about fair elections, I've mentioned it many time already, only a fool wouldn't see such transparent intentions. Also, the democrats don't want voting ID for the same selfish reasons and don't care about fair elections, only a fool wouldn't see such transparent intentions. Except Democrats do care about fair elections, there are already effective security protocols in place for every state, and we already have fair elections (at least, as far as the voter ID topic is concerned... the fact that Trump and some other Republican leaders were/are actively trying to steal and rig elections is a separate topic entirely). Stop trying to make it sound like both parties are equally at fault or equally dismissive of election security. Only one party is aggressively lying about widespread voter fraud and pushing to disenfranchise additional voters to combat this non-issue. And you've fallen for their rhetoric, big time. | ||
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LightSpectra
United States2520 Posts
On April 23 2026 19:27 baal wrote: So you think Germans that voted for the nazi party wanted a literal Jewish genocide. You also believe this of republicans, that they are also want the genocide of all immigrants and trans people. lmao you people live in some wild RPG fantasies, you imagine a world where the most powerful country with a military bigger than the rest of the world combined is ruled by a crazy genocidal fascist in control of the senate, house and court, but sadly for the RPG the result is a bit deflating though, deportations, std arab wars and tariffs aren't really that compelling for the narrative but don't let that stop you from living this fantasy to the fullest. Baal, either the Nazis and Italian fascists were very obvious about their beliefs from the start, or they started with verbal dehumanization like calling minorities vermin and escalated into genocide over time. If you think it's the latter then it's entirely fair play to call out Republicans for doing the exact same thing. Yes or no? | ||
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misirlou
Portugal3300 Posts
Voting is also on Sundays. It's incredibly easy to vote, I still live in my hometown, voted all my life in my primary school's gym and never sat in a queue that was bigger than 2 people (thousands of ppl vote on that location). I think the furthest neighborhoods assigned to that location is around a 30 min walk radius. Given that, do I know for a fact US elections are being stolen or not? No. But the news that reach me I see only one party pushing the gerrymandering, only one closing pooling locations, only one making it harder to vote, only one complaining about fraud and only voters from one side doing all the election(voter?) fraud. So yeah I think MAGA is full of shit regarding elections and the actions of j6ers traitorous. It's also funny seeing them going around calling other people woke. I'd rather be awake than a zombie like yall seem to be. | ||
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Geiko
France1961 Posts
In my country I do all the voting by mail and never had to show any ID. There is no voter fraud or anything else despite 1/4 of people here being foreigners. The prevailing opinion here is that Trump and all the MAGA people who enable him are complete lunatics. The corruption and grifting is so in-your-face obvious that I personally can't take anyone who defends him seriously. A couple years ago in France, a presidential candidate lost the election because word got out that a rich friend of his had bought him a suit. Compare that to Trump and all his family and friends using the presidency to make litteral billions... The whole world is laughing at your country i hope you know. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany7162 Posts
On April 23 2026 21:56 Geiko wrote: European here. My vote usually aligns with conservative values. In my country I do all the voting by mail and never had to show any ID. There is no voter fraud or anything else despite 1/4 of people here being foreigners. The prevailing opinion here is that Trump and all the MAGA people who enable him are complete lunatics. The corruption and grifting is so in-your-face obvious that I personally can't take anyone who defends him seriously. A couple years ago in France, a presidential candidate lost the election because word got out that a rich friend of his had bought him a suit. Compare that to Trump and all his family and friends using the presidency to make litteral billions... The whole world is laughing at your country i hope you know. That is just the thing. They don't. The internet is full of stories of US citizens wearing their MAGA caps on vacation in Europe, wondering why they get flak. | ||
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Vivax
22300 Posts
They didn‘t just lose a war the population thought they should have won while sitting on the corpse of the Kaiserreich and having to pay reparations while part of their most wealth generating territory is occupied. Meanwhile the US problems mostly stem from almost excessive freedom when it comes to having access to tools for violence, class disparity and lack of regulation for major corporations. And a cultural identity that is almost always built upon roaring nationalism and love for money. If someone dies because health care was too expensive it‘s always seen as if it‘s on them while they were forced to grow up in poverty. They compete with people who had access to better education from the get go, are well connected and can take advantage of corruption to gain access to options others don‘t have. It‘s ubiquitous. Everyone‘s dealing with a wealthy corporate network that plays people, often unnoticed and shielded from scrutiny. | ||
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misirlou
Portugal3300 Posts
On April 23 2026 22:28 Vivax wrote: Does it even make sense to compare the US to pre-nazi Germany ? They didn‘t just lose a war the population thought they should have won while sitting on the corpse of the Kaiserreich and having to pay reparations while part of their most wealth generating territory is occupied. They did if you watch fox News - lost the war on drugs, culture and immigration; trying to even out the differences in education and health access (i.e. building a school and hospital in a previously neglected black neighborhood) is sort of reparations. And their jobs being occupied by immigrants!! - I don't disagree with anything you said after, just offering what I think is part of the other side's perspective | ||
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oBlade
United States6079 Posts
On April 23 2026 21:56 Geiko wrote: European here. My vote usually aligns with conservative values. In my country I do all the voting by mail and never had to show any ID. There is no voter fraud or anything else despite 1/4 of people here being foreigners. The prevailing opinion here is that Trump and all the MAGA people who enable him are complete lunatics. The corruption and grifting is so in-your-face obvious that I personally can't take anyone who defends him seriously. A couple years ago in France, a presidential candidate lost the election because word got out that a rich friend of his had bought him a suit. Compare that to Trump and all his family and friends using the presidency to make litteral billions... The whole world is laughing at your country i hope you know. You live in France and vote by mail? | ||
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Geiko
France1961 Posts
I live in Switzerland. | ||
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misirlou
Portugal3300 Posts
On April 23 2026 20:17 WombaT wrote: Fascism isn’t innately genocidal, it certainly can be, it also tends to vary by locale given its propensity to lean very hard into national myths. It also doesn’t tend to go from 0-60 immediately, people don’t tend to like that. It gets in situ and can get more extreme as the Fascism is normalised, or alternatively/additionally, opposition is purged. A bit like the boiling frog analogy. People jump out of the pot if you lead with genocide, but leave the frog to simmer and it might get on board. Suffice to say I don’t think ‘well they’re not killing everyone so it can’t be Fascism because that’s not necessarily a pre-requisite FWIW I dunno if Trump 1.0 went past borderline for me, Trump 2.0 is pretty solidly Fascist, although still of a much milder variety than some other incarnations Very true. Portuguese fascism wasn't about commiting genocide at all - thats not what it was sold as, but they surely committed their fair share of atrocities in our colonies. People didn't vote for it because they wanted to be repressed, they voted for it because of disappointment in the first republic and believing these people had the solution and were literally going to "make portugal great again". Much like the boiling frog, the civil liberties were slowly removed, people being jailed for a myriad of stupid things, like my grandfather being arrested for being a "communist" (he was feeding poor neighbors). Took the army 40 years to be fed up and revolt (and the person the army wanted to be president refused, so they gave it to another slighty less fascist general. fortunately we were able to curb that coup next year but thats a whole other piece of history - much of our democracy today is owed to the existence of the UN and NATO) | ||
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Billyboy
1679 Posts
On April 23 2026 19:27 baal wrote: So you think Germans that voted for the nazi party wanted a literal Jewish genocide. You also believe this of republicans, that they are also want the genocide of all immigrants and trans people. lmao you people live in some wild RPG fantasies, you imagine a world where the most powerful country with a military bigger than the rest of the world combined is ruled by a crazy genocidal fascist in control of the senate, house and court, but sadly for the RPG the result is a bit deflating though, deportations, std arab wars and tariffs aren't really that compelling for the narrative but don't let that stop you from living this fantasy to the fullest. I’m confused by your reasoning. It seems you are convinced that Germans who voted for the Nazis didn’t know what they were getting because the Nazis didn’t explicitly say it. Then when people here bring up a lot of comparisons between the Nazis before WW2 and Republicans, and there are lots, many that you have agreed with. You say no way the Republicans and fascists because they have not explicitly said it. You can’t have it both ways. You should be worried about how far the Republicans are going to take it, they have already pushed it much more than people thought before this election. Even look at project 2024 . There was tons of talk about how that was a Democrat scare tactic, now the Republicans are just following it and all their voters that said they were against it, are not shockingly in favour. The republicans keep pushing toward fascism and people who vote for them keep going along with it and I guess use confirmation bias to forget about what they were against a few short months ago. | ||
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Doublemint
Austria8744 Posts
speaking of promises made, promises kept: House Oversight Committee Republicans ‘Split’ Over Whether Convicted Child Sex Trafficker Ghislaine Maxwell Should Be Pardoned@Mediaite so Maxwell got a cushy low security prison for what exactly if not cooperation when a pardon is now seriously being discussed...? burning the GOP down is not nearly enough. throw in both Clintons too once you are at it. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26703 Posts
On April 23 2026 22:28 Vivax wrote: Does it even make sense to compare the US to pre-nazi Germany ? They didn‘t just lose a war the population thought they should have won while sitting on the corpse of the Kaiserreich and having to pay reparations while part of their most wealth generating territory is occupied. Meanwhile the US problems mostly stem from almost excessive freedom when it comes to having access to tools for violence, class disparity and lack of regulation for major corporations. And a cultural identity that is almost always built upon roaring nationalism and love for money. If someone dies because health care was too expensive it‘s always seen as if it‘s on them while they were forced to grow up in poverty. They compete with people who had access to better education from the get go, are well connected and can take advantage of corruption to gain access to options others don‘t have. It‘s ubiquitous. Everyone‘s dealing with a wealthy corporate network that plays people, often unnoticed and shielded from scrutiny. No I don’t think it really does. As I (well, me paraphrasing things I’ve read from more well-learned folks over the years) have said, Fascism is to a degree nationalism on steroids. But as nations and their self-perception and culture, national myths differ so much, you’ll see pretty huge divergence in what Fascism looks like across locales. For me an American Fascism looks something like: 1. Pretty heavy religious component. And by religious, specifically Christian. 2. Capitalism good. 3. Socialism (or even SocDem stuff) bad. 4. American cultural exceptionalism 5. American exceptionalism in the geopolitical sphere Plus ofc the more standard stuff that tends to be shared, strong leaders (or collective) militaristic and general nationalistic veneration etc. I think the American flavour is going to be less explicitly racist, or sexist. Not that I doubt that can happen, but it’s not the basis. Germany had Germanic blood, Italy had Ancient Rome to invoke. For American Fascism, it’s the American DreamTM I expanded on this in probably more coherent detail a good while ago, but ultimately I think many buy into that national myth. The dividing line is less identity-focused in the abstract, it’s ‘do you support the restoration of the American dream, or don’t you?’ I’m not a lunatic, generally anyway! There’s pretty clearly some issues with race, sex etc I just don’t really think it’s a conscious driver. Minorities are fine so long as they toe the line, also I’d wager it’s fine them being part of the wider movement, just not driving it would be my best guess. I’m broad brushing which is unlike me, that’s just crudely how I see it and not an attempt to be exhaustive | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26703 Posts
On April 23 2026 23:51 Doublemint wrote: everyone in the US, except MAGA following their leaders call, voted explicitly NOT to go for a speaking of promises made, promises kept: House Oversight Committee Republicans ‘Split’ Over Whether Convicted Child Sex Trafficker Ghislaine Maxwell Should Be Pardoned@Mediaite so Maxwell got a cushy low security prison for what exactly if not cooperation when a pardon is now seriously being discussed...? burning the GOP down is not nearly enough. throw in both Clintons too once you are at it. Pardoned for fucking what? She’s a fucking ghoul No, don’t be daft. The time to do such a thing is in an immunity plea deal, if it’s not a case the prosecution can crack if you don’t flip. To my knowledge this wasn’t the case, albeit her testimony was useful enough that a deal was cut. I’m assuming this goes nowhere, for it even to be a conversation boggles my mind though | ||
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