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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
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United States44113 Posts
On April 23 2026 02:37 dyhb wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2026 02:24 KwarK wrote:On April 23 2026 02:17 dyhb wrote:On April 23 2026 01:37 KwarK wrote:On April 23 2026 01:30 dyhb wrote:The SPLC was just indicted by a grand jury. That's the Southern Poverty Law Center, perhaps the most famous cataloguer and opposer of fringe hate groups in America. It's accused of wire fraud and making false statements in order to fund a network of informants within the groups. The paid covert agents are alleged to include a "member of the online leadership chat group that planned the 2017 "Unite the Right" event in Charlottesville, Virginia," neonazis, Klan members, and a target of its "Extremist File" webpages. You should probably disclose to your donors that their donations directly fund extremism in order to better combat extremism (allegedly). It operates as a tax-deductible charity. Three million dollars are alleged to have gone to some of the worst extremist groups operating in the US. The only real defense I can see to the many false businesses, false filings to open bank accounts, and money laundering through them is that the FBI oversaw and approved of those activities. How can people be this dumb. Grand Jury IndictmentNYT story To be clear, the story here isn't misconduct, the story is that this administration which has bragged about how they plan to weaponize the justice system against groups like SPLC is alleging misconduct. We shouldn't forget the context that the US has become a failed state when we read the news. Grand jury indictment lists misconduct of a pretty clear kind. It’s the same story of Biden’s allegedly politicization of the justice system against Trump: Maybe, but also are the charges real? I can imagine other cases where the misconduct alleged looks like entrapment or is vulnerable to a deceived grand jury. You’re JAQing off pretty hard here over allegations from a bad actor that stated ahead of time that they would be a bad actor. And you’re studiously avoiding a comment on the charges, or the propriety of what was charged. Say now if you think the grand jury was deceived as to bank records and money laundering, as part of Trump’s weaponization. You act like I linked to a truth social post alleging all this, not a grand jury indictment.
I don't know if you know this but a grand jury indictment doesn't mean a whole lot, grand juries just hear the state's allegations and decide whether to move forward. There's no discovery, no defence, no trial. To fail to achieve a grand jury indictment the state would have to accuse someone of something that is so clearly not a crime that a group of laypeople go "wait what?'.
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On April 23 2026 02:42 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2026 02:37 dyhb wrote:On April 23 2026 02:24 KwarK wrote:On April 23 2026 02:17 dyhb wrote:On April 23 2026 01:37 KwarK wrote:On April 23 2026 01:30 dyhb wrote:The SPLC was just indicted by a grand jury. That's the Southern Poverty Law Center, perhaps the most famous cataloguer and opposer of fringe hate groups in America. It's accused of wire fraud and making false statements in order to fund a network of informants within the groups. The paid covert agents are alleged to include a "member of the online leadership chat group that planned the 2017 "Unite the Right" event in Charlottesville, Virginia," neonazis, Klan members, and a target of its "Extremist File" webpages. You should probably disclose to your donors that their donations directly fund extremism in order to better combat extremism (allegedly). It operates as a tax-deductible charity. Three million dollars are alleged to have gone to some of the worst extremist groups operating in the US. The only real defense I can see to the many false businesses, false filings to open bank accounts, and money laundering through them is that the FBI oversaw and approved of those activities. How can people be this dumb. Grand Jury IndictmentNYT story To be clear, the story here isn't misconduct, the story is that this administration which has bragged about how they plan to weaponize the justice system against groups like SPLC is alleging misconduct. We shouldn't forget the context that the US has become a failed state when we read the news. Grand jury indictment lists misconduct of a pretty clear kind. It’s the same story of Biden’s allegedly politicization of the justice system against Trump: Maybe, but also are the charges real? I can imagine other cases where the misconduct alleged looks like entrapment or is vulnerable to a deceived grand jury. You’re JAQing off pretty hard here over allegations from a bad actor that stated ahead of time that they would be a bad actor. And you’re studiously avoiding a comment on the charges, or the propriety of what was charged. Say now if you think the grand jury was deceived as to bank records and money laundering, as part of Trump’s weaponization. You act like I linked to a truth social post alleging all this, not a grand jury indictment. I don't know if you know this but a grand jury indictment doesn't mean a whole lot, grand juries just hear the state's allegations and decide whether to move forward. There's no discovery, no defence, no trial. To fail to achieve a grand jury indictment the state would have to accuse someone of something that is so clearly not a crime that a group of laypeople go "wait what?'. It means somebody other than admin figures examined the evidence behind those charges. That’s the decision to indict. Which is why I find the lack of comment on the substance of the charges a little mystifying, as if you believe that one or more US attorneys fabricated the bank forms and wiring records in order to deceive a grand jury to decide that there was enough substance to proceed.
I’m not going to assume your opinions on the matter, if they exist, since you decline to give them.
You already know from my past posts that I treat this in the same manner of Trump accusations of Biden politicization and weaponization of the justice department: Maybe, but did the target also commit the crimes. It’s cheap talk. Like a conservative group could commit the same alleged things and tell the world that the real story is that they were maliciously targeted by an Obama or Biden admin. Alright, but also are you busy falsifying forms and laundering money through fictitious businesses?
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Northern Ireland27013 Posts
On April 23 2026 03:28 dyhb wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2026 02:42 KwarK wrote:On April 23 2026 02:37 dyhb wrote:On April 23 2026 02:24 KwarK wrote:On April 23 2026 02:17 dyhb wrote:On April 23 2026 01:37 KwarK wrote:On April 23 2026 01:30 dyhb wrote:The SPLC was just indicted by a grand jury. That's the Southern Poverty Law Center, perhaps the most famous cataloguer and opposer of fringe hate groups in America. It's accused of wire fraud and making false statements in order to fund a network of informants within the groups. The paid covert agents are alleged to include a "member of the online leadership chat group that planned the 2017 "Unite the Right" event in Charlottesville, Virginia," neonazis, Klan members, and a target of its "Extremist File" webpages. You should probably disclose to your donors that their donations directly fund extremism in order to better combat extremism (allegedly). It operates as a tax-deductible charity. Three million dollars are alleged to have gone to some of the worst extremist groups operating in the US. The only real defense I can see to the many false businesses, false filings to open bank accounts, and money laundering through them is that the FBI oversaw and approved of those activities. How can people be this dumb. Grand Jury IndictmentNYT story To be clear, the story here isn't misconduct, the story is that this administration which has bragged about how they plan to weaponize the justice system against groups like SPLC is alleging misconduct. We shouldn't forget the context that the US has become a failed state when we read the news. Grand jury indictment lists misconduct of a pretty clear kind. It’s the same story of Biden’s allegedly politicization of the justice system against Trump: Maybe, but also are the charges real? I can imagine other cases where the misconduct alleged looks like entrapment or is vulnerable to a deceived grand jury. You’re JAQing off pretty hard here over allegations from a bad actor that stated ahead of time that they would be a bad actor. And you’re studiously avoiding a comment on the charges, or the propriety of what was charged. Say now if you think the grand jury was deceived as to bank records and money laundering, as part of Trump’s weaponization. You act like I linked to a truth social post alleging all this, not a grand jury indictment. I don't know if you know this but a grand jury indictment doesn't mean a whole lot, grand juries just hear the state's allegations and decide whether to move forward. There's no discovery, no defence, no trial. To fail to achieve a grand jury indictment the state would have to accuse someone of something that is so clearly not a crime that a group of laypeople go "wait what?'. It means somebody other than admin figures examined the evidence behind those charges. That’s the decision to indict. Which is why I find the lack of comment on the substance of the charges a little mystifying, as if you believe that one or more US attorneys fabricated the bank forms and wiring records in order to deceive a grand jury to decide that there was enough substance to proceed. I’m not going to assume your opinions on the matter, if they exist, since you decline to give them. You already know from my past posts that I treat this in the same manner of Trump accusations of Biden politicization and weaponization of the justice department: Maybe, but did the target also commit the crimes. It’s cheap talk. Like a conservative group could commit the same alleged things and tell the world that the real story is that they were maliciously targeted by an Obama or Biden admin. Alright, but also are you busy falsifying forms and laundering money through fictitious businesses?
No, the suspicion would be that attorneys pursuing the indictment are stretching things to fall under criminal statutes, not fabricating said records.
I do recognise it’s 2026 and there’s a constant thirst for comment and judgement yesterday, personally I think it’s fine to hold off and see how things develop sometimes.
In this case:
1. Is said accusation of falsifying forms congruent with simply paying informants, or is there something else at play that may be more benign?
2. Have they been laundering money without a good, non-laundering excuse that they can use in their defence?
The initial indictment and passing through the grand jury stage doesn’t really answer those questions.
’You already know from my past posts that I treat this in the same manner of Trump accusations of Biden politicization and weaponization of the justice department’ - I mean that’s a problem right there given Trump has a rather storied record of doing exactly that, all the time.
Well, person A bullshits all the time, person B doesn’t really. But I suppose I should distrust person B because hey, gotta treat people the same and person A does bullshit rather a lot…
I think people here can rightly be skeptical initially, why wouldn’t they be? But if the SPLC is nailed bang to rights I mean fair enough
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United States44113 Posts
On April 23 2026 03:28 dyhb wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2026 02:42 KwarK wrote:On April 23 2026 02:37 dyhb wrote:On April 23 2026 02:24 KwarK wrote:On April 23 2026 02:17 dyhb wrote:On April 23 2026 01:37 KwarK wrote:On April 23 2026 01:30 dyhb wrote:The SPLC was just indicted by a grand jury. That's the Southern Poverty Law Center, perhaps the most famous cataloguer and opposer of fringe hate groups in America. It's accused of wire fraud and making false statements in order to fund a network of informants within the groups. The paid covert agents are alleged to include a "member of the online leadership chat group that planned the 2017 "Unite the Right" event in Charlottesville, Virginia," neonazis, Klan members, and a target of its "Extremist File" webpages. You should probably disclose to your donors that their donations directly fund extremism in order to better combat extremism (allegedly). It operates as a tax-deductible charity. Three million dollars are alleged to have gone to some of the worst extremist groups operating in the US. The only real defense I can see to the many false businesses, false filings to open bank accounts, and money laundering through them is that the FBI oversaw and approved of those activities. How can people be this dumb. Grand Jury IndictmentNYT story To be clear, the story here isn't misconduct, the story is that this administration which has bragged about how they plan to weaponize the justice system against groups like SPLC is alleging misconduct. We shouldn't forget the context that the US has become a failed state when we read the news. Grand jury indictment lists misconduct of a pretty clear kind. It’s the same story of Biden’s allegedly politicization of the justice system against Trump: Maybe, but also are the charges real? I can imagine other cases where the misconduct alleged looks like entrapment or is vulnerable to a deceived grand jury. You’re JAQing off pretty hard here over allegations from a bad actor that stated ahead of time that they would be a bad actor. And you’re studiously avoiding a comment on the charges, or the propriety of what was charged. Say now if you think the grand jury was deceived as to bank records and money laundering, as part of Trump’s weaponization. You act like I linked to a truth social post alleging all this, not a grand jury indictment. I don't know if you know this but a grand jury indictment doesn't mean a whole lot, grand juries just hear the state's allegations and decide whether to move forward. There's no discovery, no defence, no trial. To fail to achieve a grand jury indictment the state would have to accuse someone of something that is so clearly not a crime that a group of laypeople go "wait what?'. It means somebody other than admin figures examined the evidence behind those charges. That’s the decision to indict. Which is why I find the lack of comment on the substance of the charges a little mystifying, as if you believe that one or more US attorneys fabricated the bank forms and wiring records in order to deceive a grand jury to decide that there was enough substance to proceed. I’m not going to assume your opinions on the matter, if they exist, since you decline to give them. You already know from my past posts that I treat this in the same manner of Trump accusations of Biden politicization and weaponization of the justice department: Maybe, but did the target also commit the crimes. It’s cheap talk. Like a conservative group could commit the same alleged things and tell the world that the real story is that they were maliciously targeted by an Obama or Biden admin. Alright, but also are you busy falsifying forms and laundering money through fictitious businesses?
Okay, treat it like we treated the indictments against Trump. The issue is that when we were evaluating the indictments against Trump we had things like him confessing on tape or photos of him doing it. We didn't have to worry about whether the documents case was real because he's on tape going "here, look at this document, I'm not allowed to show you this document, it's illegal, isn't that funny, if I'd declassified it while in office it'd be fine but since I didn't then what I'm doing right now is illegal".
So it's not really the same thing.
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On April 23 2026 03:28 dyhb wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2026 02:42 KwarK wrote:On April 23 2026 02:37 dyhb wrote:On April 23 2026 02:24 KwarK wrote:On April 23 2026 02:17 dyhb wrote:On April 23 2026 01:37 KwarK wrote:On April 23 2026 01:30 dyhb wrote:The SPLC was just indicted by a grand jury. That's the Southern Poverty Law Center, perhaps the most famous cataloguer and opposer of fringe hate groups in America. It's accused of wire fraud and making false statements in order to fund a network of informants within the groups. The paid covert agents are alleged to include a "member of the online leadership chat group that planned the 2017 "Unite the Right" event in Charlottesville, Virginia," neonazis, Klan members, and a target of its "Extremist File" webpages. You should probably disclose to your donors that their donations directly fund extremism in order to better combat extremism (allegedly). It operates as a tax-deductible charity. Three million dollars are alleged to have gone to some of the worst extremist groups operating in the US. The only real defense I can see to the many false businesses, false filings to open bank accounts, and money laundering through them is that the FBI oversaw and approved of those activities. How can people be this dumb. Grand Jury IndictmentNYT story To be clear, the story here isn't misconduct, the story is that this administration which has bragged about how they plan to weaponize the justice system against groups like SPLC is alleging misconduct. We shouldn't forget the context that the US has become a failed state when we read the news. Grand jury indictment lists misconduct of a pretty clear kind. It’s the same story of Biden’s allegedly politicization of the justice system against Trump: Maybe, but also are the charges real? I can imagine other cases where the misconduct alleged looks like entrapment or is vulnerable to a deceived grand jury. You’re JAQing off pretty hard here over allegations from a bad actor that stated ahead of time that they would be a bad actor. And you’re studiously avoiding a comment on the charges, or the propriety of what was charged. Say now if you think the grand jury was deceived as to bank records and money laundering, as part of Trump’s weaponization. You act like I linked to a truth social post alleging all this, not a grand jury indictment. I don't know if you know this but a grand jury indictment doesn't mean a whole lot, grand juries just hear the state's allegations and decide whether to move forward. There's no discovery, no defence, no trial. To fail to achieve a grand jury indictment the state would have to accuse someone of something that is so clearly not a crime that a group of laypeople go "wait what?'. It means somebody other than admin figures examined the evidence behind those charges. That’s the decision to indict. Which is why I find the lack of comment on the substance of the charges a little mystifying, as if you believe that one or more US attorneys fabricated the bank forms and wiring records in order to deceive a grand jury to decide that there was enough substance to proceed. I’m not going to assume your opinions on the matter, if they exist, since you decline to give them. You already know from my past posts that I treat this in the same manner of Trump accusations of Biden politicization and weaponization of the justice department: Maybe, but did the target also commit the crimes. It’s cheap talk. Like a conservative group could commit the same alleged things and tell the world that the real story is that they were maliciously targeted by an Obama or Biden admin. Alright, but also are you busy falsifying forms and laundering money through fictitious businesses?
The possibility that the scant white supremacy the SPLC earned its gravy train exposing to the world (along with hate symbols like Pepe the Frog) was astroturfed by the SPLC to begin with is more existentially damaging than you realize at first to someone whose worldview is built around the necessity of subverting the white supremacist USA.
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On April 23 2026 04:31 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2026 03:28 dyhb wrote:On April 23 2026 02:42 KwarK wrote:On April 23 2026 02:37 dyhb wrote:On April 23 2026 02:24 KwarK wrote:On April 23 2026 02:17 dyhb wrote:On April 23 2026 01:37 KwarK wrote:On April 23 2026 01:30 dyhb wrote:The SPLC was just indicted by a grand jury. That's the Southern Poverty Law Center, perhaps the most famous cataloguer and opposer of fringe hate groups in America. It's accused of wire fraud and making false statements in order to fund a network of informants within the groups. The paid covert agents are alleged to include a "member of the online leadership chat group that planned the 2017 "Unite the Right" event in Charlottesville, Virginia," neonazis, Klan members, and a target of its "Extremist File" webpages. You should probably disclose to your donors that their donations directly fund extremism in order to better combat extremism (allegedly). It operates as a tax-deductible charity. Three million dollars are alleged to have gone to some of the worst extremist groups operating in the US. The only real defense I can see to the many false businesses, false filings to open bank accounts, and money laundering through them is that the FBI oversaw and approved of those activities. How can people be this dumb. Grand Jury IndictmentNYT story To be clear, the story here isn't misconduct, the story is that this administration which has bragged about how they plan to weaponize the justice system against groups like SPLC is alleging misconduct. We shouldn't forget the context that the US has become a failed state when we read the news. Grand jury indictment lists misconduct of a pretty clear kind. It’s the same story of Biden’s allegedly politicization of the justice system against Trump: Maybe, but also are the charges real? I can imagine other cases where the misconduct alleged looks like entrapment or is vulnerable to a deceived grand jury. You’re JAQing off pretty hard here over allegations from a bad actor that stated ahead of time that they would be a bad actor. And you’re studiously avoiding a comment on the charges, or the propriety of what was charged. Say now if you think the grand jury was deceived as to bank records and money laundering, as part of Trump’s weaponization. You act like I linked to a truth social post alleging all this, not a grand jury indictment. I don't know if you know this but a grand jury indictment doesn't mean a whole lot, grand juries just hear the state's allegations and decide whether to move forward. There's no discovery, no defence, no trial. To fail to achieve a grand jury indictment the state would have to accuse someone of something that is so clearly not a crime that a group of laypeople go "wait what?'. It means somebody other than admin figures examined the evidence behind those charges. That’s the decision to indict. Which is why I find the lack of comment on the substance of the charges a little mystifying, as if you believe that one or more US attorneys fabricated the bank forms and wiring records in order to deceive a grand jury to decide that there was enough substance to proceed. I’m not going to assume your opinions on the matter, if they exist, since you decline to give them. You already know from my past posts that I treat this in the same manner of Trump accusations of Biden politicization and weaponization of the justice department: Maybe, but did the target also commit the crimes. It’s cheap talk. Like a conservative group could commit the same alleged things and tell the world that the real story is that they were maliciously targeted by an Obama or Biden admin. Alright, but also are you busy falsifying forms and laundering money through fictitious businesses? The possibility that the scant white supremacy the SPLC earned its gravy train exposing to the world (along with hate symbols like Pepe the Frog) was astroturfed by the SPLC to begin with is more existentially damaging than you realize at first to someone whose worldview is built around the necessity of subverting the white supremacist USA.
"Person who thinks white supremacy isn't real will continue to think white supremacy isn't real", ok where's the crisis?
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On April 23 2026 04:31 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2026 03:28 dyhb wrote:On April 23 2026 02:42 KwarK wrote:On April 23 2026 02:37 dyhb wrote:On April 23 2026 02:24 KwarK wrote:On April 23 2026 02:17 dyhb wrote:On April 23 2026 01:37 KwarK wrote:On April 23 2026 01:30 dyhb wrote:The SPLC was just indicted by a grand jury. That's the Southern Poverty Law Center, perhaps the most famous cataloguer and opposer of fringe hate groups in America. It's accused of wire fraud and making false statements in order to fund a network of informants within the groups. The paid covert agents are alleged to include a "member of the online leadership chat group that planned the 2017 "Unite the Right" event in Charlottesville, Virginia," neonazis, Klan members, and a target of its "Extremist File" webpages. You should probably disclose to your donors that their donations directly fund extremism in order to better combat extremism (allegedly). It operates as a tax-deductible charity. Three million dollars are alleged to have gone to some of the worst extremist groups operating in the US. The only real defense I can see to the many false businesses, false filings to open bank accounts, and money laundering through them is that the FBI oversaw and approved of those activities. How can people be this dumb. Grand Jury IndictmentNYT story To be clear, the story here isn't misconduct, the story is that this administration which has bragged about how they plan to weaponize the justice system against groups like SPLC is alleging misconduct. We shouldn't forget the context that the US has become a failed state when we read the news. Grand jury indictment lists misconduct of a pretty clear kind. It’s the same story of Biden’s allegedly politicization of the justice system against Trump: Maybe, but also are the charges real? I can imagine other cases where the misconduct alleged looks like entrapment or is vulnerable to a deceived grand jury. You’re JAQing off pretty hard here over allegations from a bad actor that stated ahead of time that they would be a bad actor. And you’re studiously avoiding a comment on the charges, or the propriety of what was charged. Say now if you think the grand jury was deceived as to bank records and money laundering, as part of Trump’s weaponization. You act like I linked to a truth social post alleging all this, not a grand jury indictment. I don't know if you know this but a grand jury indictment doesn't mean a whole lot, grand juries just hear the state's allegations and decide whether to move forward. There's no discovery, no defence, no trial. To fail to achieve a grand jury indictment the state would have to accuse someone of something that is so clearly not a crime that a group of laypeople go "wait what?'. It means somebody other than admin figures examined the evidence behind those charges. That’s the decision to indict. Which is why I find the lack of comment on the substance of the charges a little mystifying, as if you believe that one or more US attorneys fabricated the bank forms and wiring records in order to deceive a grand jury to decide that there was enough substance to proceed. I’m not going to assume your opinions on the matter, if they exist, since you decline to give them. You already know from my past posts that I treat this in the same manner of Trump accusations of Biden politicization and weaponization of the justice department: Maybe, but did the target also commit the crimes. It’s cheap talk. Like a conservative group could commit the same alleged things and tell the world that the real story is that they were maliciously targeted by an Obama or Biden admin. Alright, but also are you busy falsifying forms and laundering money through fictitious businesses? The possibility that the scant white supremacy the SPLC earned its gravy train exposing to the world (along with hate symbols like Pepe the Frog) was astroturfed by the SPLC to begin with is more existentially damaging than you realize at first to someone whose worldview is built around the necessity of subverting the white supremacist USA.
Just to clarify: Are you asserting here that there isn't much white supremacy in the United States? Or are you saying something else, such as that there's plenty of white supremacy in the United States but that the SPLC has only uncovered a tiny percentage of it?
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Northern Ireland27013 Posts
On April 23 2026 04:35 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2026 04:31 oBlade wrote:On April 23 2026 03:28 dyhb wrote:On April 23 2026 02:42 KwarK wrote:On April 23 2026 02:37 dyhb wrote:On April 23 2026 02:24 KwarK wrote:On April 23 2026 02:17 dyhb wrote:On April 23 2026 01:37 KwarK wrote:On April 23 2026 01:30 dyhb wrote:The SPLC was just indicted by a grand jury. That's the Southern Poverty Law Center, perhaps the most famous cataloguer and opposer of fringe hate groups in America. It's accused of wire fraud and making false statements in order to fund a network of informants within the groups. The paid covert agents are alleged to include a "member of the online leadership chat group that planned the 2017 "Unite the Right" event in Charlottesville, Virginia," neonazis, Klan members, and a target of its "Extremist File" webpages. You should probably disclose to your donors that their donations directly fund extremism in order to better combat extremism (allegedly). It operates as a tax-deductible charity. Three million dollars are alleged to have gone to some of the worst extremist groups operating in the US. The only real defense I can see to the many false businesses, false filings to open bank accounts, and money laundering through them is that the FBI oversaw and approved of those activities. How can people be this dumb. Grand Jury IndictmentNYT story To be clear, the story here isn't misconduct, the story is that this administration which has bragged about how they plan to weaponize the justice system against groups like SPLC is alleging misconduct. We shouldn't forget the context that the US has become a failed state when we read the news. Grand jury indictment lists misconduct of a pretty clear kind. It’s the same story of Biden’s allegedly politicization of the justice system against Trump: Maybe, but also are the charges real? I can imagine other cases where the misconduct alleged looks like entrapment or is vulnerable to a deceived grand jury. You’re JAQing off pretty hard here over allegations from a bad actor that stated ahead of time that they would be a bad actor. And you’re studiously avoiding a comment on the charges, or the propriety of what was charged. Say now if you think the grand jury was deceived as to bank records and money laundering, as part of Trump’s weaponization. You act like I linked to a truth social post alleging all this, not a grand jury indictment. I don't know if you know this but a grand jury indictment doesn't mean a whole lot, grand juries just hear the state's allegations and decide whether to move forward. There's no discovery, no defence, no trial. To fail to achieve a grand jury indictment the state would have to accuse someone of something that is so clearly not a crime that a group of laypeople go "wait what?'. It means somebody other than admin figures examined the evidence behind those charges. That’s the decision to indict. Which is why I find the lack of comment on the substance of the charges a little mystifying, as if you believe that one or more US attorneys fabricated the bank forms and wiring records in order to deceive a grand jury to decide that there was enough substance to proceed. I’m not going to assume your opinions on the matter, if they exist, since you decline to give them. You already know from my past posts that I treat this in the same manner of Trump accusations of Biden politicization and weaponization of the justice department: Maybe, but did the target also commit the crimes. It’s cheap talk. Like a conservative group could commit the same alleged things and tell the world that the real story is that they were maliciously targeted by an Obama or Biden admin. Alright, but also are you busy falsifying forms and laundering money through fictitious businesses? The possibility that the scant white supremacy the SPLC earned its gravy train exposing to the world (along with hate symbols like Pepe the Frog) was astroturfed by the SPLC to begin with is more existentially damaging than you realize at first to someone whose worldview is built around the necessity of subverting the white supremacist USA. "Person who thinks white supremacy isn't real will continue to think white supremacy isn't real", ok where's the crisis?
Also can’t forget ‘it wasn’t a Nazi salute but a K-Pop one, if you don’t believe me sure the SPLC said so’ (and IIRC it was just a few prominent folks and not an official stance)
Incidentally I felt that was politically expedient bullshit in the first place, presumably to placate but hey.
It would be nice if people would actually read what’s being referenced. The SPLC’s entry on something like bloody Pepe actually does broadly address various concerns pre-emptively.
People who bring such things up have either never went to source, or if so and still feeling the same, are either braindead or think you are.
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Canada11555 Posts
On April 23 2026 02:24 oBlade wrote:The ballot measure wording is facially illegal: Show nested quote +Question: Should the Constitution of Virginia be amended to allow the General Assembly to temporarily adopt new congressional districts to restore fairness in the upcoming elections, while ensuring Virginia's standard redistricting process resumes for all future redistricting after the 2030 census? You cannot say on a ballot filled out by voters that drawing a 10-1 map in Virginia is to "restore fairness" - which is what Texas never claimed and why they aren't massive obnoxious hypocrites like VA's governor going back on her campaign claims or VA Democrats going back on the process they just agreed to in 2020.
Well, of course Texas never claimed to be restoring fairness. But is it actually better to gerrymander and just say that is what you are doing?
Although we've seen earlier efforts to gerrymander, like North Carolina where they argued for "independent state legislature theory" to write state courts out of the equation and get rid of the court created map after they tried gerrymandering, this latest round of redistricting by Republicans was urged by Trump explicitly to gain more seats for the upcoming midterms:
“We’re going to get another three or four or five, in addition,” Trump said to reporters about House seats. “Texas would be the biggest one, and that’ll be five.”
Is it really hypocrisy to change your mind in reaction to five years of your opponents actions and ask the people for temporary measures to counter-act?
This is an arms race that has been going on for awhile.
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/redistricting-and-congressional-control-following-2012-election
Back in 2012.
Where Republicans controlled redistricting, the GOP likely won 11 more seats than they would have under the old district lines, including five seats previously held by Democrats. Democrats also used redistricting to their advantage, but Republicans redrew the lines for four times as many districts as Democrats.
In 2022, when the courts drew the map after determining North Carolina's maps constituted partisan gerrymandering, lo and behold the results were 7-7, fairly closely matching 50% voting split. But once Republicans got their judges in and over-turned the previous ruling and drew new partisan redistricted maps, hey presto, the results go back to a massive swing 10-4 despite only a 5% drop in the popular vote, fairly closely matching the Brennan's Centre's prediction that redistricting could result in as bad 11-3.
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/anatomy-north-carolina-gerrymander
Republicans didn't like the courts sorting out redistricting and North Carolina Republicans argued for 'independent state legislative theory' and the Supreme Court backed out hearing partisan gerrymandering but now Trump wants the courts to sort out Virginia's redistricting?
The partisan redistrict gerrymandering must end, but if Trump can whip up his side to gerrymander on the one hand and Democrats are expected to ineffectually whine "nooo. stahp" and nothing else, it will not and cannot end. Democrats pushed the For the People Act in 2019 that would have tackled gerrymandering but of course each state has the power to over see and regulate election, not the federal government so it got stopped in the Senate... and then the Republicans introduce the SAVE Act which would also be the federal government regulating the the states' power to over see and regulate the election. That too, did not pass. But who is exactly is the hypocrite here?
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SPLC should just rebrand to Southern(White?)WealthLawCenter and donate to one of Trump's PACs to angle for a pre-emptive pardon.
art of the deal.
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On April 23 2026 04:45 Falling wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2026 02:24 oBlade wrote:The ballot measure wording is facially illegal: Question: Should the Constitution of Virginia be amended to allow the General Assembly to temporarily adopt new congressional districts to restore fairness in the upcoming elections, while ensuring Virginia's standard redistricting process resumes for all future redistricting after the 2030 census? You cannot say on a ballot filled out by voters that drawing a 10-1 map in Virginia is to "restore fairness" - which is what Texas never claimed and why they aren't massive obnoxious hypocrites like VA's governor going back on her campaign claims or VA Democrats going back on the process they just agreed to in 2020. Well, of course Texas never claimed to be restoring fairness.
“I got the highest vote in the history of Texas,” Trump said in early August, “and we are entitled to five more seats.”
They're restoring fairness... to Trump.
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On April 23 2026 03:59 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2026 03:28 dyhb wrote:On April 23 2026 02:42 KwarK wrote:On April 23 2026 02:37 dyhb wrote:On April 23 2026 02:24 KwarK wrote:On April 23 2026 02:17 dyhb wrote:On April 23 2026 01:37 KwarK wrote:On April 23 2026 01:30 dyhb wrote:The SPLC was just indicted by a grand jury. That's the Southern Poverty Law Center, perhaps the most famous cataloguer and opposer of fringe hate groups in America. It's accused of wire fraud and making false statements in order to fund a network of informants within the groups. The paid covert agents are alleged to include a "member of the online leadership chat group that planned the 2017 "Unite the Right" event in Charlottesville, Virginia," neonazis, Klan members, and a target of its "Extremist File" webpages. You should probably disclose to your donors that their donations directly fund extremism in order to better combat extremism (allegedly). It operates as a tax-deductible charity. Three million dollars are alleged to have gone to some of the worst extremist groups operating in the US. The only real defense I can see to the many false businesses, false filings to open bank accounts, and money laundering through them is that the FBI oversaw and approved of those activities. How can people be this dumb. Grand Jury IndictmentNYT story To be clear, the story here isn't misconduct, the story is that this administration which has bragged about how they plan to weaponize the justice system against groups like SPLC is alleging misconduct. We shouldn't forget the context that the US has become a failed state when we read the news. Grand jury indictment lists misconduct of a pretty clear kind. It’s the same story of Biden’s allegedly politicization of the justice system against Trump: Maybe, but also are the charges real? I can imagine other cases where the misconduct alleged looks like entrapment or is vulnerable to a deceived grand jury. You’re JAQing off pretty hard here over allegations from a bad actor that stated ahead of time that they would be a bad actor. And you’re studiously avoiding a comment on the charges, or the propriety of what was charged. Say now if you think the grand jury was deceived as to bank records and money laundering, as part of Trump’s weaponization. You act like I linked to a truth social post alleging all this, not a grand jury indictment. I don't know if you know this but a grand jury indictment doesn't mean a whole lot, grand juries just hear the state's allegations and decide whether to move forward. There's no discovery, no defence, no trial. To fail to achieve a grand jury indictment the state would have to accuse someone of something that is so clearly not a crime that a group of laypeople go "wait what?'. It means somebody other than admin figures examined the evidence behind those charges. That’s the decision to indict. Which is why I find the lack of comment on the substance of the charges a little mystifying, as if you believe that one or more US attorneys fabricated the bank forms and wiring records in order to deceive a grand jury to decide that there was enough substance to proceed. I’m not going to assume your opinions on the matter, if they exist, since you decline to give them. You already know from my past posts that I treat this in the same manner of Trump accusations of Biden politicization and weaponization of the justice department: Maybe, but did the target also commit the crimes. It’s cheap talk. Like a conservative group could commit the same alleged things and tell the world that the real story is that they were maliciously targeted by an Obama or Biden admin. Alright, but also are you busy falsifying forms and laundering money through fictitious businesses? Okay, treat it like we treated the indictments against Trump. The issue is that when we were evaluating the indictments against Trump we had things like him confessing on tape or photos of him doing it. We didn't have to worry about whether the documents case was real because he's on tape going "here, look at this document, I'm not allowed to show you this document, it's illegal, isn't that funny, if I'd declassified it while in office it'd be fine but since I didn't then what I'm doing right now is illegal". So it's not really the same thing. Since you haven't given your opinion on any of the underlying, I'll just have to wait until you form an opinion or decide to share it. This includes several questions, like if I should take all this differentiation to mean that you think the US attorneys fabricated evidence to present to the grand jury to secure the indictment.
On April 23 2026 03:58 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2026 03:28 dyhb wrote:On April 23 2026 02:42 KwarK wrote:On April 23 2026 02:37 dyhb wrote:On April 23 2026 02:24 KwarK wrote:On April 23 2026 02:17 dyhb wrote:On April 23 2026 01:37 KwarK wrote:On April 23 2026 01:30 dyhb wrote:The SPLC was just indicted by a grand jury. That's the Southern Poverty Law Center, perhaps the most famous cataloguer and opposer of fringe hate groups in America. It's accused of wire fraud and making false statements in order to fund a network of informants within the groups. The paid covert agents are alleged to include a "member of the online leadership chat group that planned the 2017 "Unite the Right" event in Charlottesville, Virginia," neonazis, Klan members, and a target of its "Extremist File" webpages. You should probably disclose to your donors that their donations directly fund extremism in order to better combat extremism (allegedly). It operates as a tax-deductible charity. Three million dollars are alleged to have gone to some of the worst extremist groups operating in the US. The only real defense I can see to the many false businesses, false filings to open bank accounts, and money laundering through them is that the FBI oversaw and approved of those activities. How can people be this dumb. Grand Jury IndictmentNYT story To be clear, the story here isn't misconduct, the story is that this administration which has bragged about how they plan to weaponize the justice system against groups like SPLC is alleging misconduct. We shouldn't forget the context that the US has become a failed state when we read the news. Grand jury indictment lists misconduct of a pretty clear kind. It’s the same story of Biden’s allegedly politicization of the justice system against Trump: Maybe, but also are the charges real? I can imagine other cases where the misconduct alleged looks like entrapment or is vulnerable to a deceived grand jury. You’re JAQing off pretty hard here over allegations from a bad actor that stated ahead of time that they would be a bad actor. And you’re studiously avoiding a comment on the charges, or the propriety of what was charged. Say now if you think the grand jury was deceived as to bank records and money laundering, as part of Trump’s weaponization. You act like I linked to a truth social post alleging all this, not a grand jury indictment. I don't know if you know this but a grand jury indictment doesn't mean a whole lot, grand juries just hear the state's allegations and decide whether to move forward. There's no discovery, no defence, no trial. To fail to achieve a grand jury indictment the state would have to accuse someone of something that is so clearly not a crime that a group of laypeople go "wait what?'. It means somebody other than admin figures examined the evidence behind those charges. That’s the decision to indict. Which is why I find the lack of comment on the substance of the charges a little mystifying, as if you believe that one or more US attorneys fabricated the bank forms and wiring records in order to deceive a grand jury to decide that there was enough substance to proceed. I’m not going to assume your opinions on the matter, if they exist, since you decline to give them. You already know from my past posts that I treat this in the same manner of Trump accusations of Biden politicization and weaponization of the justice department: Maybe, but did the target also commit the crimes. It’s cheap talk. Like a conservative group could commit the same alleged things and tell the world that the real story is that they were maliciously targeted by an Obama or Biden admin. Alright, but also are you busy falsifying forms and laundering money through fictitious businesses? No, the suspicion would be that attorneys pursuing the indictment are stretching things to fall under criminal statutes, not fabricating said records. I do recognise it’s 2026 and there’s a constant thirst for comment and judgement yesterday, personally I think it’s fine to hold off and see how things develop sometimes. Whether the questionable or unethical conduct rises to the level of criminally prosecutable conduct is another question entirely.
In this case:
1. Is said accusation of falsifying forms congruent with simply paying informants, or is there something else at play that may be more benign? Paying informants is the benign explanation. The less benign explanation is that they paid for and supported white supremacy and other forms of radicalism as a means to garner even more donor monies. If you list an extremist on your Extremist File page, it's pretty ridiculous to not disclose that you pay him eg $30,000 a year.
2. Have they been laundering money without a good, non-laundering excuse that they can use in their defence? Hit me with your best rationale for fabricating businesses and lying about those accounts in order to send the money for entirely different purposes, when you already have payroll and federal disclosure requirements. I usually hear these kind of hypotheticals from the massive Trumpers online, in the "maybe Trump had a non-corrupt purpose in this crypto transaction."
The initial indictment and passing through the grand jury stage doesn’t really answer those questions.
’You already know from my past posts that I treat this in the same manner of Trump accusations of Biden politicization and weaponization of the justice department’ - I mean that’s a problem right there given Trump has a rather storied record of doing exactly that, all the time.
Well, person A bullshits all the time, person B doesn’t really. But I suppose I should distrust person B because hey, gotta treat people the same and person A does bullshit rather a lot…
I think people here can rightly be skeptical initially, why wouldn’t they be? But if the SPLC is nailed bang to rights I mean fair enough Talk is cheap. That's the basic point. I don't actually care if you believe Trump when he says Biden politicized his justice department, or believe Democrats when they say Trump politicized his justice department. I want to see the underlying charges and whether they're vulnerable to simply-political insubstantial bullshit. Here, it would take quite a few attorneys committing a slew of federal crimes (falsifying bank records, lying about legitimate businesses to make them appear to be pretexts) to obtain the indictment, and that is unlikely. You should understand the difference between SPLC not paying white supremacists, Klan members, neo-Nazis, and SPLC doing so but in the process not rising to the level of criminal conduct.
On April 23 2026 04:31 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2026 03:28 dyhb wrote:On April 23 2026 02:42 KwarK wrote:On April 23 2026 02:37 dyhb wrote:On April 23 2026 02:24 KwarK wrote:On April 23 2026 02:17 dyhb wrote:On April 23 2026 01:37 KwarK wrote:On April 23 2026 01:30 dyhb wrote:The SPLC was just indicted by a grand jury. That's the Southern Poverty Law Center, perhaps the most famous cataloguer and opposer of fringe hate groups in America. It's accused of wire fraud and making false statements in order to fund a network of informants within the groups. The paid covert agents are alleged to include a "member of the online leadership chat group that planned the 2017 "Unite the Right" event in Charlottesville, Virginia," neonazis, Klan members, and a target of its "Extremist File" webpages. You should probably disclose to your donors that their donations directly fund extremism in order to better combat extremism (allegedly). It operates as a tax-deductible charity. Three million dollars are alleged to have gone to some of the worst extremist groups operating in the US. The only real defense I can see to the many false businesses, false filings to open bank accounts, and money laundering through them is that the FBI oversaw and approved of those activities. How can people be this dumb. Grand Jury IndictmentNYT story To be clear, the story here isn't misconduct, the story is that this administration which has bragged about how they plan to weaponize the justice system against groups like SPLC is alleging misconduct. We shouldn't forget the context that the US has become a failed state when we read the news. Grand jury indictment lists misconduct of a pretty clear kind. It’s the same story of Biden’s allegedly politicization of the justice system against Trump: Maybe, but also are the charges real? I can imagine other cases where the misconduct alleged looks like entrapment or is vulnerable to a deceived grand jury. You’re JAQing off pretty hard here over allegations from a bad actor that stated ahead of time that they would be a bad actor. And you’re studiously avoiding a comment on the charges, or the propriety of what was charged. Say now if you think the grand jury was deceived as to bank records and money laundering, as part of Trump’s weaponization. You act like I linked to a truth social post alleging all this, not a grand jury indictment. I don't know if you know this but a grand jury indictment doesn't mean a whole lot, grand juries just hear the state's allegations and decide whether to move forward. There's no discovery, no defence, no trial. To fail to achieve a grand jury indictment the state would have to accuse someone of something that is so clearly not a crime that a group of laypeople go "wait what?'. It means somebody other than admin figures examined the evidence behind those charges. That’s the decision to indict. Which is why I find the lack of comment on the substance of the charges a little mystifying, as if you believe that one or more US attorneys fabricated the bank forms and wiring records in order to deceive a grand jury to decide that there was enough substance to proceed. I’m not going to assume your opinions on the matter, if they exist, since you decline to give them. You already know from my past posts that I treat this in the same manner of Trump accusations of Biden politicization and weaponization of the justice department: Maybe, but did the target also commit the crimes. It’s cheap talk. Like a conservative group could commit the same alleged things and tell the world that the real story is that they were maliciously targeted by an Obama or Biden admin. Alright, but also are you busy falsifying forms and laundering money through fictitious businesses? The possibility that the scant white supremacy the SPLC earned its gravy train exposing to the world (along with hate symbols like Pepe the Frog) was astroturfed by the SPLC to begin with is more existentially damaging than you realize at first to someone whose worldview is built around the necessity of subverting the white supremacist USA. I want to emphasize that I'm presenting the benign explanation that still fits fabricating fake businesses and the substance that's unlikely to be fabricated for political reasons. Namely, that the SPLC was seeking to do good with the money, but was run by both passionate and unethical leaders, who fucked things up badly in a sensitive area, even if not violating criminal statute.
It gets a whole lot worse if the more sensationalist allegations (and very vulnerable to politicization, so I'm not blindly trusting it) are also true. That they listed X figure as an extremist danger to America in order to spur donors to donate to oppose him, and were paying him ~$30,000 a year on the sly from a portion of said donations. Congratulations, donors, you funded hate by donating to the group founded to oppose hate. But that part is much more sketchy for the reasons stated.
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Is the CIA funding radical Islamism by having spies infiltrated in the governments of countries like Iran, and paying them salaries?
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On April 23 2026 05:21 LightSpectra wrote:
Is the CIA funding radical Islamism by having spies infiltrated in the governments of countries like Iran, and paying them salaries?
They‘ll fund anything that nets their country some profit or turnover I‘d guess.
Weapons, drugs, security systems, drama, pitting different parties against each other etc.
Aside from the obvious which is the reverse: Preventing trouble at home.
It‘s hard to gauge the financial shape of various countries right now after that pandemic spigot overflow.
At the end of the day some stuff might just be done to keep banks afloat or other systemically relevant corporations.
Since the military can‘t just do direct interventions in Ukraine without triggering something major.
Uncertain times. There‘s just to hope that pragmatism prevails.
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On April 23 2026 04:44 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2026 04:35 LightSpectra wrote:On April 23 2026 04:31 oBlade wrote:On April 23 2026 03:28 dyhb wrote:On April 23 2026 02:42 KwarK wrote:On April 23 2026 02:37 dyhb wrote:On April 23 2026 02:24 KwarK wrote:On April 23 2026 02:17 dyhb wrote:On April 23 2026 01:37 KwarK wrote:On April 23 2026 01:30 dyhb wrote:The SPLC was just indicted by a grand jury. That's the Southern Poverty Law Center, perhaps the most famous cataloguer and opposer of fringe hate groups in America. It's accused of wire fraud and making false statements in order to fund a network of informants within the groups. The paid covert agents are alleged to include a "member of the online leadership chat group that planned the 2017 "Unite the Right" event in Charlottesville, Virginia," neonazis, Klan members, and a target of its "Extremist File" webpages. You should probably disclose to your donors that their donations directly fund extremism in order to better combat extremism (allegedly). It operates as a tax-deductible charity. Three million dollars are alleged to have gone to some of the worst extremist groups operating in the US. The only real defense I can see to the many false businesses, false filings to open bank accounts, and money laundering through them is that the FBI oversaw and approved of those activities. How can people be this dumb. Grand Jury IndictmentNYT story To be clear, the story here isn't misconduct, the story is that this administration which has bragged about how they plan to weaponize the justice system against groups like SPLC is alleging misconduct. We shouldn't forget the context that the US has become a failed state when we read the news. Grand jury indictment lists misconduct of a pretty clear kind. It’s the same story of Biden’s allegedly politicization of the justice system against Trump: Maybe, but also are the charges real? I can imagine other cases where the misconduct alleged looks like entrapment or is vulnerable to a deceived grand jury. You’re JAQing off pretty hard here over allegations from a bad actor that stated ahead of time that they would be a bad actor. And you’re studiously avoiding a comment on the charges, or the propriety of what was charged. Say now if you think the grand jury was deceived as to bank records and money laundering, as part of Trump’s weaponization. You act like I linked to a truth social post alleging all this, not a grand jury indictment. I don't know if you know this but a grand jury indictment doesn't mean a whole lot, grand juries just hear the state's allegations and decide whether to move forward. There's no discovery, no defence, no trial. To fail to achieve a grand jury indictment the state would have to accuse someone of something that is so clearly not a crime that a group of laypeople go "wait what?'. It means somebody other than admin figures examined the evidence behind those charges. That’s the decision to indict. Which is why I find the lack of comment on the substance of the charges a little mystifying, as if you believe that one or more US attorneys fabricated the bank forms and wiring records in order to deceive a grand jury to decide that there was enough substance to proceed. I’m not going to assume your opinions on the matter, if they exist, since you decline to give them. You already know from my past posts that I treat this in the same manner of Trump accusations of Biden politicization and weaponization of the justice department: Maybe, but did the target also commit the crimes. It’s cheap talk. Like a conservative group could commit the same alleged things and tell the world that the real story is that they were maliciously targeted by an Obama or Biden admin. Alright, but also are you busy falsifying forms and laundering money through fictitious businesses? The possibility that the scant white supremacy the SPLC earned its gravy train exposing to the world (along with hate symbols like Pepe the Frog) was astroturfed by the SPLC to begin with is more existentially damaging than you realize at first to someone whose worldview is built around the necessity of subverting the white supremacist USA. "Person who thinks white supremacy isn't real will continue to think white supremacy isn't real", ok where's the crisis? Also can’t forget ‘it wasn’t a Nazi salute but a K-Pop one, if you don’t believe me sure the SPLC said so’ (and IIRC it was just a few prominent folks and not an official stance) Incidentally I felt that was politically expedient bullshit in the first place, presumably to placate but hey. It would be nice if people would actually read what’s being referenced. The SPLC’s entry on something like bloody Pepe actually does broadly address various concerns pre-emptively. People who bring such things up have either never went to source, or if so and still feeling the same, are either braindead or think you are.
That was the ADL. Whatever you think about the ADL, the SPLC is worse. No one should havw taken thrm seriously even before this.
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Northern Ireland27013 Posts
On April 23 2026 05:19 dyhb wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2026 03:59 KwarK wrote:On April 23 2026 03:28 dyhb wrote:On April 23 2026 02:42 KwarK wrote:On April 23 2026 02:37 dyhb wrote:On April 23 2026 02:24 KwarK wrote:On April 23 2026 02:17 dyhb wrote:On April 23 2026 01:37 KwarK wrote:On April 23 2026 01:30 dyhb wrote:The SPLC was just indicted by a grand jury. That's the Southern Poverty Law Center, perhaps the most famous cataloguer and opposer of fringe hate groups in America. It's accused of wire fraud and making false statements in order to fund a network of informants within the groups. The paid covert agents are alleged to include a "member of the online leadership chat group that planned the 2017 "Unite the Right" event in Charlottesville, Virginia," neonazis, Klan members, and a target of its "Extremist File" webpages. You should probably disclose to your donors that their donations directly fund extremism in order to better combat extremism (allegedly). It operates as a tax-deductible charity. Three million dollars are alleged to have gone to some of the worst extremist groups operating in the US. The only real defense I can see to the many false businesses, false filings to open bank accounts, and money laundering through them is that the FBI oversaw and approved of those activities. How can people be this dumb. Grand Jury IndictmentNYT story To be clear, the story here isn't misconduct, the story is that this administration which has bragged about how they plan to weaponize the justice system against groups like SPLC is alleging misconduct. We shouldn't forget the context that the US has become a failed state when we read the news. Grand jury indictment lists misconduct of a pretty clear kind. It’s the same story of Biden’s allegedly politicization of the justice system against Trump: Maybe, but also are the charges real? I can imagine other cases where the misconduct alleged looks like entrapment or is vulnerable to a deceived grand jury. You’re JAQing off pretty hard here over allegations from a bad actor that stated ahead of time that they would be a bad actor. And you’re studiously avoiding a comment on the charges, or the propriety of what was charged. Say now if you think the grand jury was deceived as to bank records and money laundering, as part of Trump’s weaponization. You act like I linked to a truth social post alleging all this, not a grand jury indictment. I don't know if you know this but a grand jury indictment doesn't mean a whole lot, grand juries just hear the state's allegations and decide whether to move forward. There's no discovery, no defence, no trial. To fail to achieve a grand jury indictment the state would have to accuse someone of something that is so clearly not a crime that a group of laypeople go "wait what?'. It means somebody other than admin figures examined the evidence behind those charges. That’s the decision to indict. Which is why I find the lack of comment on the substance of the charges a little mystifying, as if you believe that one or more US attorneys fabricated the bank forms and wiring records in order to deceive a grand jury to decide that there was enough substance to proceed. I’m not going to assume your opinions on the matter, if they exist, since you decline to give them. You already know from my past posts that I treat this in the same manner of Trump accusations of Biden politicization and weaponization of the justice department: Maybe, but did the target also commit the crimes. It’s cheap talk. Like a conservative group could commit the same alleged things and tell the world that the real story is that they were maliciously targeted by an Obama or Biden admin. Alright, but also are you busy falsifying forms and laundering money through fictitious businesses? Okay, treat it like we treated the indictments against Trump. The issue is that when we were evaluating the indictments against Trump we had things like him confessing on tape or photos of him doing it. We didn't have to worry about whether the documents case was real because he's on tape going "here, look at this document, I'm not allowed to show you this document, it's illegal, isn't that funny, if I'd declassified it while in office it'd be fine but since I didn't then what I'm doing right now is illegal". So it's not really the same thing. Since you haven't given your opinion on any of the underlying, I'll just have to wait until you form an opinion or decide to share it. This includes several questions, like if I should take all this differentiation to mean that you think the US attorneys fabricated evidence to present to the grand jury to secure the indictment. Show nested quote +On April 23 2026 03:58 WombaT wrote:On April 23 2026 03:28 dyhb wrote:On April 23 2026 02:42 KwarK wrote:On April 23 2026 02:37 dyhb wrote:On April 23 2026 02:24 KwarK wrote:On April 23 2026 02:17 dyhb wrote:On April 23 2026 01:37 KwarK wrote:On April 23 2026 01:30 dyhb wrote:The SPLC was just indicted by a grand jury. That's the Southern Poverty Law Center, perhaps the most famous cataloguer and opposer of fringe hate groups in America. It's accused of wire fraud and making false statements in order to fund a network of informants within the groups. The paid covert agents are alleged to include a "member of the online leadership chat group that planned the 2017 "Unite the Right" event in Charlottesville, Virginia," neonazis, Klan members, and a target of its "Extremist File" webpages. You should probably disclose to your donors that their donations directly fund extremism in order to better combat extremism (allegedly). It operates as a tax-deductible charity. Three million dollars are alleged to have gone to some of the worst extremist groups operating in the US. The only real defense I can see to the many false businesses, false filings to open bank accounts, and money laundering through them is that the FBI oversaw and approved of those activities. How can people be this dumb. Grand Jury IndictmentNYT story To be clear, the story here isn't misconduct, the story is that this administration which has bragged about how they plan to weaponize the justice system against groups like SPLC is alleging misconduct. We shouldn't forget the context that the US has become a failed state when we read the news. Grand jury indictment lists misconduct of a pretty clear kind. It’s the same story of Biden’s allegedly politicization of the justice system against Trump: Maybe, but also are the charges real? I can imagine other cases where the misconduct alleged looks like entrapment or is vulnerable to a deceived grand jury. You’re JAQing off pretty hard here over allegations from a bad actor that stated ahead of time that they would be a bad actor. And you’re studiously avoiding a comment on the charges, or the propriety of what was charged. Say now if you think the grand jury was deceived as to bank records and money laundering, as part of Trump’s weaponization. You act like I linked to a truth social post alleging all this, not a grand jury indictment. I don't know if you know this but a grand jury indictment doesn't mean a whole lot, grand juries just hear the state's allegations and decide whether to move forward. There's no discovery, no defence, no trial. To fail to achieve a grand jury indictment the state would have to accuse someone of something that is so clearly not a crime that a group of laypeople go "wait what?'. It means somebody other than admin figures examined the evidence behind those charges. That’s the decision to indict. Which is why I find the lack of comment on the substance of the charges a little mystifying, as if you believe that one or more US attorneys fabricated the bank forms and wiring records in order to deceive a grand jury to decide that there was enough substance to proceed. I’m not going to assume your opinions on the matter, if they exist, since you decline to give them. You already know from my past posts that I treat this in the same manner of Trump accusations of Biden politicization and weaponization of the justice department: Maybe, but did the target also commit the crimes. It’s cheap talk. Like a conservative group could commit the same alleged things and tell the world that the real story is that they were maliciously targeted by an Obama or Biden admin. Alright, but also are you busy falsifying forms and laundering money through fictitious businesses? No, the suspicion would be that attorneys pursuing the indictment are stretching things to fall under criminal statutes, not fabricating said records. I do recognise it’s 2026 and there’s a constant thirst for comment and judgement yesterday, personally I think it’s fine to hold off and see how things develop sometimes. Whether the questionable or unethical conduct rises to the level of criminally prosecutable conduct is another question entirely. Show nested quote +In this case:
1. Is said accusation of falsifying forms congruent with simply paying informants, or is there something else at play that may be more benign? Paying informants is the benign explanation. The less benign explanation is that they paid for and supported white supremacy and other forms of radicalism as a means to garner even more donor monies. If you list an extremist on your Extremist File page, it's pretty ridiculous to not disclose that you pay him eg $30,000 a year. Show nested quote +2. Have they been laundering money without a good, non-laundering excuse that they can use in their defence? Hit me with your best rationale for fabricating businesses and lying about those accounts in order to send the money for entirely different purposes, when you already have payroll and federal disclosure requirements. I usually hear these kind of hypotheticals from the massive Trumpers online, in the "maybe Trump had a non-corrupt purpose in this crypto transaction." Show nested quote +The initial indictment and passing through the grand jury stage doesn’t really answer those questions.
’You already know from my past posts that I treat this in the same manner of Trump accusations of Biden politicization and weaponization of the justice department’ - I mean that’s a problem right there given Trump has a rather storied record of doing exactly that, all the time.
Well, person A bullshits all the time, person B doesn’t really. But I suppose I should distrust person B because hey, gotta treat people the same and person A does bullshit rather a lot…
I think people here can rightly be skeptical initially, why wouldn’t they be? But if the SPLC is nailed bang to rights I mean fair enough Talk is cheap. That's the basic point. I don't actually care if you believe Trump when he says Biden politicized his justice department, or believe Democrats when they say Trump politicized his justice department. I want to see the underlying charges and whether they're vulnerable to simply-political insubstantial bullshit. Here, it would take quite a few attorneys committing a slew of federal crimes (falsifying bank records, lying about legitimate businesses to make them appear to be pretexts) to obtain the indictment, and that is unlikely. You should understand the difference between SPLC not paying white supremacists, Klan members, neo-Nazis, and SPLC doing so but in the process not rising to the level of criminal conduct. Show nested quote +On April 23 2026 04:31 oBlade wrote:On April 23 2026 03:28 dyhb wrote:On April 23 2026 02:42 KwarK wrote:On April 23 2026 02:37 dyhb wrote:On April 23 2026 02:24 KwarK wrote:On April 23 2026 02:17 dyhb wrote:On April 23 2026 01:37 KwarK wrote:On April 23 2026 01:30 dyhb wrote:The SPLC was just indicted by a grand jury. That's the Southern Poverty Law Center, perhaps the most famous cataloguer and opposer of fringe hate groups in America. It's accused of wire fraud and making false statements in order to fund a network of informants within the groups. The paid covert agents are alleged to include a "member of the online leadership chat group that planned the 2017 "Unite the Right" event in Charlottesville, Virginia," neonazis, Klan members, and a target of its "Extremist File" webpages. You should probably disclose to your donors that their donations directly fund extremism in order to better combat extremism (allegedly). It operates as a tax-deductible charity. Three million dollars are alleged to have gone to some of the worst extremist groups operating in the US. The only real defense I can see to the many false businesses, false filings to open bank accounts, and money laundering through them is that the FBI oversaw and approved of those activities. How can people be this dumb. Grand Jury IndictmentNYT story To be clear, the story here isn't misconduct, the story is that this administration which has bragged about how they plan to weaponize the justice system against groups like SPLC is alleging misconduct. We shouldn't forget the context that the US has become a failed state when we read the news. Grand jury indictment lists misconduct of a pretty clear kind. It’s the same story of Biden’s allegedly politicization of the justice system against Trump: Maybe, but also are the charges real? I can imagine other cases where the misconduct alleged looks like entrapment or is vulnerable to a deceived grand jury. You’re JAQing off pretty hard here over allegations from a bad actor that stated ahead of time that they would be a bad actor. And you’re studiously avoiding a comment on the charges, or the propriety of what was charged. Say now if you think the grand jury was deceived as to bank records and money laundering, as part of Trump’s weaponization. You act like I linked to a truth social post alleging all this, not a grand jury indictment. I don't know if you know this but a grand jury indictment doesn't mean a whole lot, grand juries just hear the state's allegations and decide whether to move forward. There's no discovery, no defence, no trial. To fail to achieve a grand jury indictment the state would have to accuse someone of something that is so clearly not a crime that a group of laypeople go "wait what?'. It means somebody other than admin figures examined the evidence behind those charges. That’s the decision to indict. Which is why I find the lack of comment on the substance of the charges a little mystifying, as if you believe that one or more US attorneys fabricated the bank forms and wiring records in order to deceive a grand jury to decide that there was enough substance to proceed. I’m not going to assume your opinions on the matter, if they exist, since you decline to give them. You already know from my past posts that I treat this in the same manner of Trump accusations of Biden politicization and weaponization of the justice department: Maybe, but did the target also commit the crimes. It’s cheap talk. Like a conservative group could commit the same alleged things and tell the world that the real story is that they were maliciously targeted by an Obama or Biden admin. Alright, but also are you busy falsifying forms and laundering money through fictitious businesses? The possibility that the scant white supremacy the SPLC earned its gravy train exposing to the world (along with hate symbols like Pepe the Frog) was astroturfed by the SPLC to begin with is more existentially damaging than you realize at first to someone whose worldview is built around the necessity of subverting the white supremacist USA. I want to emphasize that I'm presenting the benign explanation that still fits fabricating fake businesses and the substance that's unlikely to be fabricated for political reasons. Namely, that the SPLC was seeking to do good with the money, but was run by both passionate and unethical leaders, who fucked things up badly in a sensitive area, even if not violating criminal statute. It gets a whole lot worse if the more sensationalist allegations (and very vulnerable to politicization, so I'm not blindly trusting it) are also true. That they listed X figure as an extremist danger to America in order to spur donors to donate to oppose him, and were paying him ~$30,000 a year on the sly from a portion of said donations. Congratulations, donors, you funded hate by donating to the group founded to oppose hate. But that part is much more sketchy for the reasons stated.
I don’t know, have they been laundering money? Let us see. Presumably it’s at least a plausible charge if it’s got this far, I await further info as this progresses.
They also could be 100% guilty and subject to political targeting, not a combo I’d rule out.
Not the exact same domain but let’s be real, shitloads of people skirt beyond legal (but bullshit nonetheless) tax minimisation and into outright illegal avoidance. I’d be similarly skeptical if like, some guy who just so happened to be critical of the current executive and who the executive have shit-talked suddenly became subject to the long arm of the law
I’d rather not be so skeptical but I’m not really sure how. Weaponise as many institutions as seemingly possible and folks will start to lose faith in them as non-partisan institutions, it’s only natural.
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Northern Ireland27013 Posts
On April 23 2026 06:40 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2026 04:44 WombaT wrote:On April 23 2026 04:35 LightSpectra wrote:On April 23 2026 04:31 oBlade wrote:On April 23 2026 03:28 dyhb wrote:On April 23 2026 02:42 KwarK wrote:On April 23 2026 02:37 dyhb wrote:On April 23 2026 02:24 KwarK wrote:On April 23 2026 02:17 dyhb wrote:On April 23 2026 01:37 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
To be clear, the story here isn't misconduct, the story is that this administration which has bragged about how they plan to weaponize the justice system against groups like SPLC is alleging misconduct.
We shouldn't forget the context that the US has become a failed state when we read the news. Grand jury indictment lists misconduct of a pretty clear kind. It’s the same story of Biden’s allegedly politicization of the justice system against Trump: Maybe, but also are the charges real? I can imagine other cases where the misconduct alleged looks like entrapment or is vulnerable to a deceived grand jury. You’re JAQing off pretty hard here over allegations from a bad actor that stated ahead of time that they would be a bad actor. And you’re studiously avoiding a comment on the charges, or the propriety of what was charged. Say now if you think the grand jury was deceived as to bank records and money laundering, as part of Trump’s weaponization. You act like I linked to a truth social post alleging all this, not a grand jury indictment. I don't know if you know this but a grand jury indictment doesn't mean a whole lot, grand juries just hear the state's allegations and decide whether to move forward. There's no discovery, no defence, no trial. To fail to achieve a grand jury indictment the state would have to accuse someone of something that is so clearly not a crime that a group of laypeople go "wait what?'. It means somebody other than admin figures examined the evidence behind those charges. That’s the decision to indict. Which is why I find the lack of comment on the substance of the charges a little mystifying, as if you believe that one or more US attorneys fabricated the bank forms and wiring records in order to deceive a grand jury to decide that there was enough substance to proceed. I’m not going to assume your opinions on the matter, if they exist, since you decline to give them. You already know from my past posts that I treat this in the same manner of Trump accusations of Biden politicization and weaponization of the justice department: Maybe, but did the target also commit the crimes. It’s cheap talk. Like a conservative group could commit the same alleged things and tell the world that the real story is that they were maliciously targeted by an Obama or Biden admin. Alright, but also are you busy falsifying forms and laundering money through fictitious businesses? The possibility that the scant white supremacy the SPLC earned its gravy train exposing to the world (along with hate symbols like Pepe the Frog) was astroturfed by the SPLC to begin with is more existentially damaging than you realize at first to someone whose worldview is built around the necessity of subverting the white supremacist USA. "Person who thinks white supremacy isn't real will continue to think white supremacy isn't real", ok where's the crisis? Also can’t forget ‘it wasn’t a Nazi salute but a K-Pop one, if you don’t believe me sure the SPLC said so’ (and IIRC it was just a few prominent folks and not an official stance) Incidentally I felt that was politically expedient bullshit in the first place, presumably to placate but hey. It would be nice if people would actually read what’s being referenced. The SPLC’s entry on something like bloody Pepe actually does broadly address various concerns pre-emptively. People who bring such things up have either never went to source, or if so and still feeling the same, are either braindead or think you are. That was the ADL. Whatever you think about the ADL, the SPLC is worse. No one should havw taken thrm seriously even before this.
Ah yes, I was getting mixed up there thanks for the correction
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On April 22 2026 23:25 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2026 23:14 Acrofales wrote:On April 22 2026 23:10 oBlade wrote:On April 22 2026 23:09 Acrofales wrote:On April 22 2026 21:28 oBlade wrote:On April 22 2026 21:23 Acrofales wrote:On April 22 2026 17:44 oBlade wrote:On April 22 2026 15:56 maybenexttime wrote:On April 22 2026 10:57 Razyda wrote:
Yes.
Alabama voters dont vote for president they vote for Alabama electors slates, and there is no such thing as popular election in US.
Only on paper. Remind me, what's the election called? Right, the presidential election. Who's campaigning for the votes of Alabamans? Presidential candidates. Who's on the ballot? Presidential candidates. Do you think that Alabamans know any names of the electors? You are so transparently full of shit you're just making yourself look like an idiot with those bad faith arguments. Alabamans expect their electors to vote for the ticket the people of Alabama decided they should vote for in the election Alabama runs - which is now enshrined in federal law as faithless electors have been more strictly outlawed. In the case of Alabama joining the NPVIC why would Alabamans expect their electors to vote for that, and not the ticket the people of Alabama the USA decided they should vote for? I don't think you can call these faithless electors either, although I'm sure there's going to be hundreds of court cases if the NPVIC actually happens. The electors are faithless if there is a procedure in place that is well understood, but then the electors decide to do something different. E.g. if the process enshrined in law in the state of Alabama is that "the electors of Alabama vote for the candidate chosen by majority rule in the state of Alabama", and the electorate of Alabama votes for Mr. Red, but the electors then go to Washington and cast their votes for Mr. Blue instead. But if the process itself changes, and the state of Alabaman enshrines in its loaw that "the electors of Alabama vote for the candidate chosen by majority rule in the entire nation", and while Mr. Red has a local majority in Alabama, Mr. Blue won nation-wide, then according to the very process determined by Alabama law, the electors should vote for Mr. Blue. But this is no doubt completely and utterly wrapped in complicated legalese and word-of-the-law vs spirit-of-the-law stuff that will feed armies of lawyers for decades to come if the NPVIC ever actually gets enacted. Do you think state legislatures have the plenary power to award electors to whoever they want to or not? LMGTFY https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutionality_of_the_National_Popular_Vote_Interstate_Compact How the fuck am I going to google your opinion? Just because you add a "do you think" doesn't mean it's an opinion. Do you think water is wet? ...You see the first sentence of the Jimmy Wales Rehab Fund article you lent me saying "There is ongoing legal debate"? Do you think there is ongoing legal debate about whether water is wet, and do you want to revise your bullshit analogy after realizing that? Do you even know what the question I asked you meant? There is an originalist case that the states can do whatever they want the electors. That means Alabama can pass a law that if Republicans get at least 10 votes, they win. They can pass a law that if oil goes over $100 the Democrat wins. They can pass a law that if the hedgehog sees his shadow, the Democrat wins. If you don't have that power, there is no other justification why under for example the Alabama constitution you would possibly be able to make the result of an election contingent on other elections that DO NOT take place under the protections guaranteed by the Alabama constitution, and which are not run by Alabama, and do not have Alabamans voting in them. There's no other way. That's where the power would come from and that's what you get. My opinion that I'm incredibly brave enough to share here without going "Durr Wikipedia" is going down that road obviously cannot be right. Get one of your own or don't fucking waste our time.
My opinion is "I'm not a constitutional lawyer and nor do I need to be, because they'll be fighting this shit out in the courts for decades to come if any of it actually happens". I think not having an opinion about a rather technical and complicated matter that I know fuck-all about is something more people should try, because I am fucking sick and tired of reading peoples' dumb and uninformed opinions on twitter (mainly) in topics that I do know something about.
As for wasting time... I wasn't the one who brought up "ah, the NPVIC might not be disenfranchisement BUT IS IT LEGAL" was I?
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United States44113 Posts
The private equity banker with zero military experience that they put in charge of the US Navy was fired today with zero warning. He got the position after raising $12m for the Trump campaign.
His termination was effective immediately while he was attending a conference in his official role as Secretary of the Navy. He was the keynote speaker. Absolutely brutal firing but deserved given his general incompetence and complete lack of experience.
Kinda funny but it makes you wonder about all those Senators who approved him for the position in the first place. If the boss is firing people for being wholly unqualified then that’s pretty damning for the hiring committee.
The new Acting Secretary of the Navy will be pretty busy with an active naval campaign to manage in addition to his existing self appointed crusade of keeping witchcraft out of Virginia.
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Did he fuck up in any real specific way, or is he just the fall guy who is now definitively the only reason that the Iran war didn't turn out as Trump wanted?
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EPT
