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On April 23 2026 13:08 Simberto wrote:
Did he fuck up in any real specific way, or is he just the fall guy who is now definitively the only reason that the Iran war didn't turn out as Trump wanted?
It's about shipbuilding.
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On April 22 2026 20:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2026 19:29 baal wrote:On April 22 2026 15:29 KwarK wrote:
Given that there is no evidence of a problem, what exactly are you trying to achieve here?
lol this is why the questions was aimed at Europeans because americans will just parrot their party's retarded talking points like this one. Half your country is convinced there's rigging going on to the point congress got raided and you will keep parroting this bullshit instead of simply securing the election process. You just repeated a political party's talking point, not KwarK. It is a fact that there is no widespread voter fraud in this country. That is not merely a political talking point. The fact that Republicans are wrong about this - and are actively spreading lies about election integrity - doesn't mean we should be giving in and disenfranchising voters to placate Trump and his cultists. When Congress gets raided and when an insurrection occurs by violent, malicious thugs, you need to arrest and prosecute those who break the law. You also need to try your best to explain reality and educate the rest of the population. You don't pretend the fascist criminals are right and then do what they say. You don't negotiate with terrorists like those. Ironically, there is indeed evidence of a problem, just not one related to actual election fraud. The problem is that Trump, MAGA, and conservatives in general are consistently lying and trying to undermine our democracy. The election process is already secure. 2016 wasn't stolen by widespread voter fraud. 2020 wasn't stolen by widespread voter fraud. 2024 wasn't stolen by widespread voter fraud. Stop parroting a party's incorrect talking point.
lol republicans are fascists terrorits.
This is why I asked Europeans and not american democrats lol.
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On April 22 2026 22:07 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2026 19:29 baal wrote:
Half your country is convinced there's rigging going on to the point congress got raided and you will keep parroting this bullshit instead of simply securing the election process. "Why don't you simply appease the fascists by giving into their factually wrong talking points? Are you stupid?" Show nested quote +If the republicans are pushing a shitty system then Dems should get the correct national ID system but they don't want that do they? they want no ID because of the same reason, it benefits them. Republicans won't vote for a Democratic proposal for a free universal ID because what they want is a poll tax, not election security. So it's dead in the Senate no matter what happens. Democrats could have a symbolic vote for universal ID + ID checks at voting sites, but Republicans will just bitch and spread misinformation about it anyway, so why bother?
lol fascists gain
This is why I asked Europeans and not american democrats lol.
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On April 22 2026 22:20 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2026 19:29 baal wrote:On April 22 2026 15:29 KwarK wrote:On April 22 2026 15:13 baal wrote:On April 22 2026 15:04 KwarK wrote:On April 22 2026 14:36 baal wrote:On April 19 2026 01:32 KwarK wrote:
Jimmy, that’s not how it works. You need ID to get on the electoral roll and you need to be on the roll to vote. Non citizens aren’t just showing up and voting no questions asked. So if you need an ID to be on the roll, why not ask for ID when they vote if they already have it? Because they’re not universally freely available and the US has a very long history of restricting access to voting. One consequence of getting caught breaking the rules hundreds of times is that nobody trusts you anymore. If you were able to read history books you’d find them full of examples of the people running US elections explaining that the restrictions they were adding would be great because they’d enshrine white supremacy. That’s the kind of context that makes people suspicious when you start adding restrictions, especially when it’s to combat a problem that there is no evidence for. But you said they already require ID to enroll to vote, so why not ask it in the poll itself if they already used the ID to register? ID to get on the roll is a far better system for users because it doesn’t force everyone to get everything done in a single day or miss out. People are invited to update their voter registration information when renewing drivers licenses, when engaging in property transactions, when getting tribal IDs/passports etc. Then you get your new registration card mailed to you and if there’s an error there is plenty of time to correct it. If you don’t have proof of address that day then you come back the next. It works. 1 day? what are you talking about?, you have years to get your ID for the next election. I work as an election judge in US Elections. We do our best to process same day registrations for citizens who show up with IDs and proof of address and want to vote but the system has been known to be overwhelmed. A vote by ID system without a preexisting voter roll is putting everyone on same day registration, it’s unworkable. And one with a preexisting voter roll is what we already have where the ID can be done ahead of time. There is no need for an enrollment if you have voting ID tied to an address, you are automatically per-registered to vote in your location. The US doesn’t have voter ID cards. There are a variety of ID cards but resident aliens have drivers licenses and state IDs or military IDs. And an awful lot of citizens don’t have passports. So you’d have to invent a new ID card and get hundreds of millions of Americans to carry them. But let’s say that you did that. You’d still need to keep the current voter registration roll system, you’d not want someone who moved state to vote in the wrong one so the card alone wouldn’t be enough. No you don't, if you move you have to re-apply for a new voting ID with your new address.
Given that there is no evidence of a problem, what exactly are you trying to achieve here?
lol this is why the questions was aimed at Europeans because americans will just parrot their party's retarded talking points like this one. Half your country is convinced there's rigging going on to the point congress got raided and you will keep parroting this bullshit instead of simply securing the election process.
I’m not saying that there couldn’t be a successful system like the Mexican one. But the politicians in the US aren’t advocating for one of those, they’re not funding a new national ID card system and Federalizing elections. They’re advocating for breaking the US system and replacing it with nothing. It’s simply not a good faith attempt to make things better.
Ours its not a successful system at all, rigging is rampant but at the very least we all agree the ID system is extremely important and things would be way worse without it. If the republicans are pushing a shitty system then Dems should get the correct national ID system but they don't want that do they? they want no ID because of the same reason, it benefits them. Right so you think the US has to adopt some kind of electoral photo ID system because ‘well lots of people are mad about electoral fraud’ which hasn’t actually happened. While saying that Mexico’s, ‘it’s not a successful system at all, rigging is rampant…’ at the same time despite having such a system. Makes sense to me bro. It’s a very easy Republican political win if they were earnest about it, but they are not which is hence why they don’t do it. It does require doing bipartisan politics, or at least attempting to. 1. Fraud bad despite evidence we want x 2. Dems express concerns 3. Ok heres our proposal that addresses 2), if you reject that it’s pretty obvious it’s coming from a place of self-interest given we addressed your concerns 4. You either get what you want with some concessions, or you don’t but it gives you political ammunition Republicans don’t do this, and they don’t because they’re generally full of it. And not just on this topic
Finally an European.
I'm saying the US should adopt a photo ID system for voting because it logical to make elections as secure as possible and voting ID makes fraud more difficult.
The reason elections in Mexico are corrupt are in spite of the ID system which is only one step of many to have secure elections, there is also a counting process which is even more important and many others, however if we didn't have the ID system the fraud level in elections would be comical.
Democrats are not interested in photo IDs because it's in their direct interest, the same way republicans are not interested in abolishing the electoral college because it's in their direct interest, to not have this clear is to have a child like view of politics.
So what the public should demand for is a photo ID system without the republican extra-bullshit aimed to suppress voting, it should be like in Europe as easy as possible, but the democratic voters don't want it because they are morons talking about fascism parroting their partys talking points.
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On April 23 2026 14:25 baal wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2026 20:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On April 22 2026 19:29 baal wrote:On April 22 2026 15:29 KwarK wrote:
Given that there is no evidence of a problem, what exactly are you trying to achieve here?
lol this is why the questions was aimed at Europeans because americans will just parrot their party's retarded talking points like this one. Half your country is convinced there's rigging going on to the point congress got raided and you will keep parroting this bullshit instead of simply securing the election process. You just repeated a political party's talking point, not KwarK. It is a fact that there is no widespread voter fraud in this country. That is not merely a political talking point. The fact that Republicans are wrong about this - and are actively spreading lies about election integrity - doesn't mean we should be giving in and disenfranchising voters to placate Trump and his cultists. When Congress gets raided and when an insurrection occurs by violent, malicious thugs, you need to arrest and prosecute those who break the law. You also need to try your best to explain reality and educate the rest of the population. You don't pretend the fascist criminals are right and then do what they say. You don't negotiate with terrorists like those. Ironically, there is indeed evidence of a problem, just not one related to actual election fraud. The problem is that Trump, MAGA, and conservatives in general are consistently lying and trying to undermine our democracy. The election process is already secure. 2016 wasn't stolen by widespread voter fraud. 2020 wasn't stolen by widespread voter fraud. 2024 wasn't stolen by widespread voter fraud. Stop parroting a party's incorrect talking point. lol republicans are fascists terrorits. This is why I asked Europeans and not american democrats lol.
I'm european and agree that Republicans are fascists.
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On April 23 2026 14:58 Luolis wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2026 14:25 baal wrote:On April 22 2026 20:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On April 22 2026 19:29 baal wrote:On April 22 2026 15:29 KwarK wrote:
Given that there is no evidence of a problem, what exactly are you trying to achieve here?
lol this is why the questions was aimed at Europeans because americans will just parrot their party's retarded talking points like this one. Half your country is convinced there's rigging going on to the point congress got raided and you will keep parroting this bullshit instead of simply securing the election process. You just repeated a political party's talking point, not KwarK. It is a fact that there is no widespread voter fraud in this country. That is not merely a political talking point. The fact that Republicans are wrong about this - and are actively spreading lies about election integrity - doesn't mean we should be giving in and disenfranchising voters to placate Trump and his cultists. When Congress gets raided and when an insurrection occurs by violent, malicious thugs, you need to arrest and prosecute those who break the law. You also need to try your best to explain reality and educate the rest of the population. You don't pretend the fascist criminals are right and then do what they say. You don't negotiate with terrorists like those. Ironically, there is indeed evidence of a problem, just not one related to actual election fraud. The problem is that Trump, MAGA, and conservatives in general are consistently lying and trying to undermine our democracy. The election process is already secure. 2016 wasn't stolen by widespread voter fraud. 2020 wasn't stolen by widespread voter fraud. 2024 wasn't stolen by widespread voter fraud. Stop parroting a party's incorrect talking point. lol republicans are fascists terrorits. This is why I asked Europeans and not american democrats lol. I'm european and agree that Republicans are fascists.
Same. MAGA, to be precise.
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Yeah if you think Europeans dont consider republics fascists after electing someone who instigated an insurrection you have not been paying attention.
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On April 23 2026 15:49 Gorsameth wrote:
Yeah if you think Europeans dont consider republics fascists after electing someone who instigated an insurrection you have not been paying attention.
Agreed.
I'd also like to mention that i (very european) answered that question already a while ago, when it was first posted.
https://tl.net/forum/general/532255-us-politics-mega-thread?page=5672#113434
US republicans are simply utterly untrustworthy. They have a history of trying to win at the election system through shady means. They are also scarily fascist.
It is very obvious to anyone with half a brain that their goal is not fairer elections. It is winning more through making people who wouldn't vote for them vote less. This is bad for democracy.
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On April 23 2026 15:49 Gorsameth wrote:
Yeah if you think Europeans dont consider republics fascists after electing someone who instigated an insurrection you have not been paying attention.
Maybe they don't teach about the Beer Hall Putsch or March on Rome in whatever school baal went to.
Also, deeply funny that he was emphasizing "people who voted for Nazis aren't ontologically evil, they didn't know there were plans to eradicate the Jews" while laughing off insinuations that Republicans are fascists as they routinely dehumanize immigrants and trans people with the same language like "vermin" or "a plague". The omens of the evils of fascism are simultaneously too hard to recognize for their average supporter, but also nothing to worry about whatsoever, you're being hysterical if you think you see them.
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Scientists are fleeing the US and looking for asylum and financing in European countries. Germany alone has already about 250 applications from established scientists that worked in US universities and such.
Congratulations USA, the brain drain is almost completed.
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On April 23 2026 14:58 Luolis wrote:
I'm european and agree that Republicans are fascists.
On April 23 2026 15:21 maybenexttime wrote:
Same. MAGA, to be precise.
On April 23 2026 15:49 Gorsameth wrote:
Yeah if you think Europeans dont consider republics fascists after electing someone who instigated an insurrection you have not been paying attention.
I literally asked for "Euro wokes" so yeah I'm aware this forum is full of dumb leftists.
I wanted to know the Euro woke take on specifically voting ID, since in your countries ID is necessary to vote, and is pretty common sense that ID helps make elections more secure I was wondering if you guys would be tainted by internet media and parrot retarded democrats talking points like disenfranchising and no evidence of fraud or you would be more logical and "be like, yeah ID is a good idea and should happen but the conservatives are pushing bullshit extra stuff in the bill that should be stopped."
I knew the later would be impossible to get from a US liberal, so it was a bit of a Euro litmus test to see the reach and power of US media.
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On April 23 2026 16:10 Simberto wrote:
It is very obvious to anyone with half a brain that their goal is not fairer elections. It is winning more through making people who wouldn't vote for them vote less. This is bad for democracy. \
You are absolutely right, it is obvious republicans are doing that and dont care about fair elections, I've mentioned it many time already, only a fool wouldn't see such transparent intentions.
Also, the democrats don't want voting ID for the same selfish reasons and don't care about fair elections, only a fool wouldn't see such transparent intentions.
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On April 23 2026 18:41 baal wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2026 14:58 Luolis wrote:
I'm european and agree that Republicans are fascists. Show nested quote +On April 23 2026 15:49 Gorsameth wrote:
Yeah if you think Europeans dont consider republics fascists after electing someone who instigated an insurrection you have not been paying attention. I literally asked for "Euro wokes" so yeah I'm aware this forum is full of dumb leftists. I wanted to know the Euro woke take on specifically voting ID, since in your countries ID is necessary to vote, and is pretty common sense that ID helps make elections more secure I was wondering if you guys would be tainted by internet media and parrot retarded democrats talking points like disenfranchising and no evidence of fraud or you would be more logical and "be like, yeah ID is a good idea and should happen but the conservatives are pushing bullshit extra stuff in the bill that should be stopped." I knew the later would be impossible to get from a US liberal, so it was a bit of a Euro litmus test to see the reach and power of US media.
Amazing thing is Republicans even took out anything that could possibly be viewed as bullshit extra stuff and the issue still stalled in the Senate. Because Democrats voted down the clean photo-ID only amendment to the SAVE act. Like the simplest possible bill on the 80/20 issue of voter ID. Stripped down of any proof of citizenship, different registration, or voting roll parts. Just the photo ID to vote nationally requirement. Not a single Democrat was willing to let that version go to a final vote. It's a farce.
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On April 23 2026 18:41 baal wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2026 14:58 Luolis wrote:
I'm european and agree that Republicans are fascists. Show nested quote +On April 23 2026 15:49 Gorsameth wrote:
Yeah if you think Europeans dont consider republics fascists after electing someone who instigated an insurrection you have not been paying attention. I literally asked for "Euro wokes" so yeah I'm aware this forum is full of dumb leftists. I wanted to know the Euro woke take on specifically voting ID, since in your countries ID is necessary to vote, and is pretty common sense that ID helps make elections more secure I was wondering if you guys would be tainted by internet media and parrot retarded democrats talking points like disenfranchising and no evidence of fraud or you would be more logical and "be like, yeah ID is a good idea and should happen but the conservatives are pushing bullshit extra stuff in the bill that should be stopped." I knew the later would be impossible to get from a US liberal, so it was a bit of a Euro litmus test to see the reach and power of US media.
First of, I'm european and agree that Republicans are fascists.
Second, wdym voting ID? I don't think I know enough about the US voting system but in Germany you are registered in your home town, normally with your personal ID. If you are eligible to vote you get an invite per mail. Then have to show up to vote with your ID and your mail, then you can vote. How else would you do it?
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On April 23 2026 15:21 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2026 14:58 Luolis wrote:On April 23 2026 14:25 baal wrote:On April 22 2026 20:26 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On April 22 2026 19:29 baal wrote:On April 22 2026 15:29 KwarK wrote:
Given that there is no evidence of a problem, what exactly are you trying to achieve here?
lol this is why the questions was aimed at Europeans because americans will just parrot their party's retarded talking points like this one. Half your country is convinced there's rigging going on to the point congress got raided and you will keep parroting this bullshit instead of simply securing the election process. You just repeated a political party's talking point, not KwarK. It is a fact that there is no widespread voter fraud in this country. That is not merely a political talking point. The fact that Republicans are wrong about this - and are actively spreading lies about election integrity - doesn't mean we should be giving in and disenfranchising voters to placate Trump and his cultists. When Congress gets raided and when an insurrection occurs by violent, malicious thugs, you need to arrest and prosecute those who break the law. You also need to try your best to explain reality and educate the rest of the population. You don't pretend the fascist criminals are right and then do what they say. You don't negotiate with terrorists like those. Ironically, there is indeed evidence of a problem, just not one related to actual election fraud. The problem is that Trump, MAGA, and conservatives in general are consistently lying and trying to undermine our democracy. The election process is already secure. 2016 wasn't stolen by widespread voter fraud. 2020 wasn't stolen by widespread voter fraud. 2024 wasn't stolen by widespread voter fraud. Stop parroting a party's incorrect talking point. lol republicans are fascists terrorits. This is why I asked Europeans and not american democrats lol. I'm european and agree that Republicans are fascists. Same. MAGA, to be precise.
+1
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On April 23 2026 17:09 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2026 15:49 Gorsameth wrote:
Yeah if you think Europeans dont consider republics fascists after electing someone who instigated an insurrection you have not been paying attention. Maybe they don't teach about the Beer Hall Putsch or March on Rome in whatever school baal went to. Also, deeply funny that he was emphasizing "people who voted for Nazis aren't ontologically evil, they didn't know there were plans to eradicate the Jews" while laughing off insinuations that Republicans are fascists as they routinely dehumanize immigrants and trans people with the same language like "vermin" or "a plague". The omens of the evils of fascism are simultaneously too hard to recognize for their average supporter, but also nothing to worry about whatsoever, you're being hysterical if you think you see them.
So you think Germans that voted for the nazi party wanted a literal Jewish genocide.
You also believe this of republicans, that they are also want the genocide of all immigrants and trans people.
lmao you people live in some wild RPG fantasies, you imagine a world where the most powerful country with a military bigger than the rest of the world combined is ruled by a crazy genocidal fascist in control of the senate, house and court, but sadly for the RPG the result is a bit deflating though, deportations, std arab wars and tariffs aren't really that compelling for the narrative but don't let that stop you from living this fantasy to the fullest.
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On April 23 2026 18:56 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2026 18:41 baal wrote:On April 23 2026 14:58 Luolis wrote:
I'm european and agree that Republicans are fascists. On April 23 2026 15:21 maybenexttime wrote:
Same. MAGA, to be precise. On April 23 2026 15:49 Gorsameth wrote:
Yeah if you think Europeans dont consider republics fascists after electing someone who instigated an insurrection you have not been paying attention. I literally asked for "Euro wokes" so yeah I'm aware this forum is full of dumb leftists. I wanted to know the Euro woke take on specifically voting ID, since in your countries ID is necessary to vote, and is pretty common sense that ID helps make elections more secure I was wondering if you guys would be tainted by internet media and parrot retarded democrats talking points like disenfranchising and no evidence of fraud or you would be more logical and "be like, yeah ID is a good idea and should happen but the conservatives are pushing bullshit extra stuff in the bill that should be stopped." I knew the later would be impossible to get from a US liberal, so it was a bit of a Euro litmus test to see the reach and power of US media. First of, I'm european and agree that Republicans are fascists. Second, wdym voting ID? I don't think I know enough about the US voting system but in Germany you are registered in your home town, normally with your personal ID. If you are eligible to vote you get an invite per mail. Then have to show up to vote with your ID and your mail, then you can vote. How else would you do it?
In the states of California, Illinois, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Pennsylvania, and Vermont you are not required to present any documentation while voting.
Pretty much every country asks for photo ID to vote except the US, depending on the security of other government issued IDs many countries also issue a voter ID with higher security standards than lets say a drivers license.
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Northern Ireland26703 Posts
On April 23 2026 14:37 baal wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2026 22:20 WombaT wrote:On April 22 2026 19:29 baal wrote:On April 22 2026 15:29 KwarK wrote:On April 22 2026 15:13 baal wrote:On April 22 2026 15:04 KwarK wrote:On April 22 2026 14:36 baal wrote:On April 19 2026 01:32 KwarK wrote:
Jimmy, that’s not how it works. You need ID to get on the electoral roll and you need to be on the roll to vote. Non citizens aren’t just showing up and voting no questions asked. So if you need an ID to be on the roll, why not ask for ID when they vote if they already have it? Because they’re not universally freely available and the US has a very long history of restricting access to voting. One consequence of getting caught breaking the rules hundreds of times is that nobody trusts you anymore. If you were able to read history books you’d find them full of examples of the people running US elections explaining that the restrictions they were adding would be great because they’d enshrine white supremacy. That’s the kind of context that makes people suspicious when you start adding restrictions, especially when it’s to combat a problem that there is no evidence for. But you said they already require ID to enroll to vote, so why not ask it in the poll itself if they already used the ID to register? ID to get on the roll is a far better system for users because it doesn’t force everyone to get everything done in a single day or miss out. People are invited to update their voter registration information when renewing drivers licenses, when engaging in property transactions, when getting tribal IDs/passports etc. Then you get your new registration card mailed to you and if there’s an error there is plenty of time to correct it. If you don’t have proof of address that day then you come back the next. It works. 1 day? what are you talking about?, you have years to get your ID for the next election. I work as an election judge in US Elections. We do our best to process same day registrations for citizens who show up with IDs and proof of address and want to vote but the system has been known to be overwhelmed. A vote by ID system without a preexisting voter roll is putting everyone on same day registration, it’s unworkable. And one with a preexisting voter roll is what we already have where the ID can be done ahead of time. There is no need for an enrollment if you have voting ID tied to an address, you are automatically per-registered to vote in your location. The US doesn’t have voter ID cards. There are a variety of ID cards but resident aliens have drivers licenses and state IDs or military IDs. And an awful lot of citizens don’t have passports. So you’d have to invent a new ID card and get hundreds of millions of Americans to carry them. But let’s say that you did that. You’d still need to keep the current voter registration roll system, you’d not want someone who moved state to vote in the wrong one so the card alone wouldn’t be enough. No you don't, if you move you have to re-apply for a new voting ID with your new address.
Given that there is no evidence of a problem, what exactly are you trying to achieve here?
lol this is why the questions was aimed at Europeans because americans will just parrot their party's retarded talking points like this one. Half your country is convinced there's rigging going on to the point congress got raided and you will keep parroting this bullshit instead of simply securing the election process.
I’m not saying that there couldn’t be a successful system like the Mexican one. But the politicians in the US aren’t advocating for one of those, they’re not funding a new national ID card system and Federalizing elections. They’re advocating for breaking the US system and replacing it with nothing. It’s simply not a good faith attempt to make things better.
Ours its not a successful system at all, rigging is rampant but at the very least we all agree the ID system is extremely important and things would be way worse without it. If the republicans are pushing a shitty system then Dems should get the correct national ID system but they don't want that do they? they want no ID because of the same reason, it benefits them. Right so you think the US has to adopt some kind of electoral photo ID system because ‘well lots of people are mad about electoral fraud’ which hasn’t actually happened. While saying that Mexico’s, ‘it’s not a successful system at all, rigging is rampant…’ at the same time despite having such a system. Makes sense to me bro. It’s a very easy Republican political win if they were earnest about it, but they are not which is hence why they don’t do it. It does require doing bipartisan politics, or at least attempting to. 1. Fraud bad despite evidence we want x 2. Dems express concerns 3. Ok heres our proposal that addresses 2), if you reject that it’s pretty obvious it’s coming from a place of self-interest given we addressed your concerns 4. You either get what you want with some concessions, or you don’t but it gives you political ammunition Republicans don’t do this, and they don’t because they’re generally full of it. And not just on this topic Finally an European. I'm saying the US should adopt a photo ID system for voting because it logical to make elections as secure as possible and voting ID makes fraud more difficult. The reason elections in Mexico are corrupt are in spite of the ID system which is only one step of many to have secure elections, there is also a counting process which is even more important and many others, however if we didn't have the ID system the fraud level in elections would be comical. Democrats are not interested in photo IDs because it's in their direct interest, the same way republicans are not interested in abolishing the electoral college because it's in their direct interest, to not have this clear is to have a child like view of politics. So what the public should demand for is a photo ID system without the republican extra-bullshit aimed to suppress voting, it should be like in Europe as easy as possible, but the democratic voters don't want it because they are morons talking about fascism parroting their partys talking points.
It’s also logical to want one’s home to be as secure as possible, but if I built a moat, set up barbed wire and got some nifty death lasers it may be a little excessive. Even more so if I actually live in an incredibly safe area and was convinced to make these upgrades by someone who insisted burglaries were at endemic proportions.
I think it’s important to keep self-interest of various kinds in mind, but that’s not all politics consists of, that can be just as reductive a lens too.
I’d ask you to consider why this is is even a relatively hot topic to begin with. It isn’t in many other places, hell it was much less of an issue even in the States until relatively recently.
You seem to be demanding that opponents, rather than proponents make these proposals more widely palatable, something I struggle to think of a single comparable example. I’m sure some exist somewhere but that’s generally not how these things work
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On April 23 2026 18:56 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2026 18:41 baal wrote:On April 23 2026 14:58 Luolis wrote:
I'm european and agree that Republicans are fascists. On April 23 2026 15:21 maybenexttime wrote:
Same. MAGA, to be precise. On April 23 2026 15:49 Gorsameth wrote:
Yeah if you think Europeans dont consider republics fascists after electing someone who instigated an insurrection you have not been paying attention. I literally asked for "Euro wokes" so yeah I'm aware this forum is full of dumb leftists. I wanted to know the Euro woke take on specifically voting ID, since in your countries ID is necessary to vote, and is pretty common sense that ID helps make elections more secure I was wondering if you guys would be tainted by internet media and parrot retarded democrats talking points like disenfranchising and no evidence of fraud or you would be more logical and "be like, yeah ID is a good idea and should happen but the conservatives are pushing bullshit extra stuff in the bill that should be stopped." I knew the later would be impossible to get from a US liberal, so it was a bit of a Euro litmus test to see the reach and power of US media. First of, I'm european and agree that Republicans are fascists. Second, wdym voting ID? I don't think I know enough about the US voting system but in Germany you are registered in your home town, normally with your personal ID. If you are eligible to vote you get an invite per mail. Then have to show up to vote with your ID and your mail, then you can vote. How else would you do it?
US systems in general are wild. A lot of the stuff is basically something someone came up in 1800, which was then never changed because the founding fathers were genius prophets who were correct in every single way, and nothing could ever be better than the thing they thought of.
In this case, the US doesn't do registration of people afaik. Nor national ID. Both of these are viewed as step 1 to fascism. Instead, they have a weird hodgepodge of systems where you have to present some amount of documents to some office or another to prove that you are actually allowed to vote. Since there is no document that everyone is 100% certain to have, you have to have a lot of different procedures to handle whatever documentation the people can actually show you. And since states run their own elections, these rules tend to vary from state to state.
Also, since there is no registration of people, you have to actually register to be able to vote. And of course, at every single step of this process some people try to influence elections by making it harder for people who vote for the other party to vote.
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On April 23 2026 19:36 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2026 14:37 baal wrote:On April 22 2026 22:20 WombaT wrote:On April 22 2026 19:29 baal wrote:On April 22 2026 15:29 KwarK wrote:On April 22 2026 15:13 baal wrote:On April 22 2026 15:04 KwarK wrote:On April 22 2026 14:36 baal wrote:On April 19 2026 01:32 KwarK wrote:
Jimmy, that’s not how it works. You need ID to get on the electoral roll and you need to be on the roll to vote. Non citizens aren’t just showing up and voting no questions asked. So if you need an ID to be on the roll, why not ask for ID when they vote if they already have it? Because they’re not universally freely available and the US has a very long history of restricting access to voting. One consequence of getting caught breaking the rules hundreds of times is that nobody trusts you anymore. If you were able to read history books you’d find them full of examples of the people running US elections explaining that the restrictions they were adding would be great because they’d enshrine white supremacy. That’s the kind of context that makes people suspicious when you start adding restrictions, especially when it’s to combat a problem that there is no evidence for. But you said they already require ID to enroll to vote, so why not ask it in the poll itself if they already used the ID to register? ID to get on the roll is a far better system for users because it doesn’t force everyone to get everything done in a single day or miss out. People are invited to update their voter registration information when renewing drivers licenses, when engaging in property transactions, when getting tribal IDs/passports etc. Then you get your new registration card mailed to you and if there’s an error there is plenty of time to correct it. If you don’t have proof of address that day then you come back the next. It works. 1 day? what are you talking about?, you have years to get your ID for the next election. I work as an election judge in US Elections. We do our best to process same day registrations for citizens who show up with IDs and proof of address and want to vote but the system has been known to be overwhelmed. A vote by ID system without a preexisting voter roll is putting everyone on same day registration, it’s unworkable. And one with a preexisting voter roll is what we already have where the ID can be done ahead of time. There is no need for an enrollment if you have voting ID tied to an address, you are automatically per-registered to vote in your location. The US doesn’t have voter ID cards. There are a variety of ID cards but resident aliens have drivers licenses and state IDs or military IDs. And an awful lot of citizens don’t have passports. So you’d have to invent a new ID card and get hundreds of millions of Americans to carry them. But let’s say that you did that. You’d still need to keep the current voter registration roll system, you’d not want someone who moved state to vote in the wrong one so the card alone wouldn’t be enough. No you don't, if you move you have to re-apply for a new voting ID with your new address.
Given that there is no evidence of a problem, what exactly are you trying to achieve here?
lol this is why the questions was aimed at Europeans because americans will just parrot their party's retarded talking points like this one. Half your country is convinced there's rigging going on to the point congress got raided and you will keep parroting this bullshit instead of simply securing the election process.
I’m not saying that there couldn’t be a successful system like the Mexican one. But the politicians in the US aren’t advocating for one of those, they’re not funding a new national ID card system and Federalizing elections. They’re advocating for breaking the US system and replacing it with nothing. It’s simply not a good faith attempt to make things better.
Ours its not a successful system at all, rigging is rampant but at the very least we all agree the ID system is extremely important and things would be way worse without it. If the republicans are pushing a shitty system then Dems should get the correct national ID system but they don't want that do they? they want no ID because of the same reason, it benefits them. Right so you think the US has to adopt some kind of electoral photo ID system because ‘well lots of people are mad about electoral fraud’ which hasn’t actually happened. While saying that Mexico’s, ‘it’s not a successful system at all, rigging is rampant…’ at the same time despite having such a system. Makes sense to me bro. It’s a very easy Republican political win if they were earnest about it, but they are not which is hence why they don’t do it. It does require doing bipartisan politics, or at least attempting to. 1. Fraud bad despite evidence we want x 2. Dems express concerns 3. Ok heres our proposal that addresses 2), if you reject that it’s pretty obvious it’s coming from a place of self-interest given we addressed your concerns 4. You either get what you want with some concessions, or you don’t but it gives you political ammunition Republicans don’t do this, and they don’t because they’re generally full of it. And not just on this topic Finally an European. I'm saying the US should adopt a photo ID system for voting because it logical to make elections as secure as possible and voting ID makes fraud more difficult. The reason elections in Mexico are corrupt are in spite of the ID system which is only one step of many to have secure elections, there is also a counting process which is even more important and many others, however if we didn't have the ID system the fraud level in elections would be comical. Democrats are not interested in photo IDs because it's in their direct interest, the same way republicans are not interested in abolishing the electoral college because it's in their direct interest, to not have this clear is to have a child like view of politics. So what the public should demand for is a photo ID system without the republican extra-bullshit aimed to suppress voting, it should be like in Europe as easy as possible, but the democratic voters don't want it because they are morons talking about fascism parroting their partys talking points. It’s also logical to want one’s home to be as secure as possible, but if I built a moat, set up barbed wire and got some nifty death lasers it may be a little excessive. Even more so if I actually live in an incredibly safe area and was convinced to make these upgrades by someone who insisted burglaries were at endemic proportions. I think it’s important to keep self-interest of various kinds in mind, but that’s not all politics consists of, that can be just as reductive a lens too. I’d ask you to consider why this is is even a relatively hot topic to begin with. It isn’t in many other places, hell it was much less of an issue even in the States until relatively recently. You seem to be demanding that opponents, rather than proponents make these proposals more widely palatable, something I struggle to think of a single comparable example. I’m sure some exist somewhere but that’s generally not how these things work
dude its a fucking photo ID like everywhere else in the world, can't think of anything more basic than that its not a laser moat.
It's a hot topic because it goes for and against their party interest, simple as that
Self interest is not all politics is about but its the core of it and many layers are built upon it.
I don't really expect politicians to do anything, I expect people to want these things because they are common sense, sadly many don't because they derive their political ideas from their political party, if they tell them "no evidence" or "electoral college good" they parrot it like drones.
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