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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.


If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread
misirlou
Profile Joined June 2010
Portugal3246 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-02-17 14:28:47
2 hours ago
#110101
On February 17 2026 21:45 pmh wrote:

Its not going to last. What is happening now is even worse then what led to Clinton losing in 2016. Ignoring an increasing large part of the voterbase and have their voice not represented.
The only difference now is that it goes for both partys. The republicans are no longer seen as the savior messias alternative out of desperation which resulted in the first Trump win.


does it go for both parties though? judging by the right leaning and centrist posters on this forum - are the so called centrists not happily voting R next election?

that's a good question, centrists, when was the last time you voted for a democrat?
LightSpectra
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States2126 Posts
1 hour ago
#110102
The only reason they call themselves centrists is because they need some reference point in order for "immigrants and trans people should be treated like human beings" to be so far-left that the FBI can surveil people who say it on suspicions of being due-paying members of antifa.
2006 Shinhan Bank OSL Season 3 was the greatest tournament of all time
pmh
Profile Joined March 2016
1405 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-02-17 15:01:23
1 hour ago
#110103
On February 17 2026 23:43 LightSpectra wrote:
The only reason they call themselves centrists is because they need some reference point in order for "immigrants and trans people should be treated like human beings" to be so far-left that the FBI can surveil people who say it on suspicions of being due-paying members of antifa.


Just to be clear:that is not my position at all.
This sort of projection is very common on this forum. Its part of the attempt to keep the democrats in this narrow focus. By suggesting someone who just points this out is a lgbti and immigrant hating nazi already.

It did bother me for a while but its so dumb i dont care anymore if people do this.
Billyboy
Profile Joined September 2024
1453 Posts
1 hour ago
#110104
On February 17 2026 23:27 misirlou wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 17 2026 21:45 pmh wrote:

Its not going to last. What is happening now is even worse then what led to Clinton losing in 2016. Ignoring an increasing large part of the voterbase and have their voice not represented.
The only difference now is that it goes for both partys. The republicans are no longer seen as the savior messias alternative out of desperation which resulted in the first Trump win.


does it go for both parties though? judging by the right leaning and centrist posters on this forum - are the so called centrists not happily voting R next election?

that's a good question, centrists, when was the last time you voted for a democrat?

This is one of the biggest problems with FTP and specifically the American system. Almost no one is changing their vote, no matter what, which means no accountability. Every state should be purple and pick the best each election.
LightSpectra
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States2126 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-02-17 15:33:54
1 hour ago
#110105
The "narrow focus" you're talking about is created by Republicans.

Trans people are less than 1% of the population. There's literally no reason for their dignity and healthcare to be a political football except because Republicans need a distraction from the fact that the overwhelming majority of their voter base don't benefit from tax cuts for the rich, deregulation of megacorps, defunding Medicaid, destroying family farms with mass tariffs, etc.

Go rewatch the campaign ads from 2024. Democratic ads were focused on things like $25,000 for first-time home buyers. Republican ads were shit like "She's for they/them, I'm for YOU".

The culture war is almost entirely defensive from the Democratic side. Human rights and equality shouldn't even be up for discussion, it should be taken for granted. Unfortunately you don't win elections by staying silent while your opponent is foaming at the mouth about Haitians eating the cats and dogs. Republicans throw that garbage out because, historically, it works. And non-voters who ignorantly say "both sides are the same" are rewarding them for it.
2006 Shinhan Bank OSL Season 3 was the greatest tournament of all time
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22095 Posts
Last Edited: 2026-02-17 15:35:31
1 hour ago
#110106
On February 18 2026 00:00 pmh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 17 2026 23:43 LightSpectra wrote:
The only reason they call themselves centrists is because they need some reference point in order for "immigrants and trans people should be treated like human beings" to be so far-left that the FBI can surveil people who say it on suspicions of being due-paying members of antifa.


Just to be clear:that is not my position at all.
This sort of projection is very common on this forum. Its part of the attempt to keep the democrats in this narrow focus. By suggesting someone who just points this out is a lgbti and immigrant hating nazi already.

It did bother me for a while but its so dumb i dont care anymore if people do this.
Oblade still pretends like Elon Musk didn't come on stage and did a nazi salute, twice just to be sure.

There is no such thing as a 'centralist' nazi

There can be centralist people who lean Republican, but anyone who is actually a centralist should be disgusted by this openly fascist government.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
oBlade
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States5892 Posts
43 minutes ago
#110107
On February 18 2026 00:26 Billyboy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 17 2026 23:27 misirlou wrote:
On February 17 2026 21:45 pmh wrote:

Its not going to last. What is happening now is even worse then what led to Clinton losing in 2016. Ignoring an increasing large part of the voterbase and have their voice not represented.
The only difference now is that it goes for both partys. The republicans are no longer seen as the savior messias alternative out of desperation which resulted in the first Trump win.


does it go for both parties though? judging by the right leaning and centrist posters on this forum - are the so called centrists not happily voting R next election?

that's a good question, centrists, when was the last time you voted for a democrat?

This is one of the biggest problems with FTP and specifically the American system. Almost no one is changing their vote, no matter what, which means no accountability. Every state should be purple and pick the best each election.

This happens but at a level that you don't see it in pure results numbers.

Imagine you are in a class of 25 students, and on Monday 5 are absent. And on Friday 5 are absent. Did the same 20 come to class both days?

There is inertia but a party is not holding on to the exact same voters over say 30 years even if the numbers are the same. People move, people vote or don't vote, and people vote for candidates rather than party. Everything is constantly changing. Any given election like 10% of party voters flip, 10% to 40% show or up don't show up, especially for midterms. The parties are not stuck, they are actively constantly vying for parity at least in a way that looks unrecognizable the way a tug of war photo is indistinguishable from people standing still.
"I read it. You know how to read, you ignorant fuck?" - Andy Dufresne
dyhb
Profile Joined August 2021
United States122 Posts
37 minutes ago
#110108
On February 17 2026 20:02 Sadist wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 17 2026 09:03 dyhb wrote:
On February 16 2026 13:14 Falling wrote:
On February 15 2026 17:17 oBlade wrote:
On February 15 2026 05:14 Falling wrote:
On February 14 2026 22:55 oBlade wrote:
Centrist is about right.

Oh, so you do consider yourself a centrist. (So in my mind, you are in fact category A.)

What are you a centre on:

Listen, whether centrist or independent or unaffiliated or whatever, if you want to quibble that centrist should mean something like in the middle on most issues rather than mixed on all issues. That's a fair demarcation to make. But to me the interpretation of "centrist" as such makes the golden mean fallacy inherent in the term. Like, are you for global thermonuclear war, or no nuclear war? Ah, I'm a radical centrist, I prefer a medium nuclear war. Who would ever choose or want to be a centrist defined as such. But that goes over most people's heads and is not the key point here, is it. You can choose the specific word. Politicalcompass (-1.25, 0.1). 8values Centrist Patriotic Moderate Neutral. No party registration. Supported Obama and Trump. Disapprove of 80% of politicians.

I'm pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, want steeper taxes on high incomes. Bernie Sanders' social security plan was a good idea. Bush's wasn't. I want government to be bigger and cheaper (think New Deal but nonpartisan). And want to cut defense spending in half at least. I am broadly in favor of single payer healthcare. I hate civil asset forfeiture.

On February 15 2026 05:14 Falling wrote:
For instance, on Foreign policy- Trump's ideas on NATO,

NATO should be stronger.

On February 15 2026 05:14 Falling wrote:
war in Ukraine, Israel,

From here it starts to creep into my head what your left/right definitions are. Anti-war is left. Hawkish is traditionally right.

My view on Israel is they should exist and they're a US ally, Ukraine should also exist but except for the fact that the country that attacked them is a US enemy, they're not an ally per se. Even if they wanted to be. Though they are a friendly partner on our periphery. Now obviously attacking someone before they become someone's ally, so they can't become an ally, is its own problem. But it's more largely a European problem. Even though Russia is a polar adversary. For example if Venezuela attacked Bukele I would expect it mainly to be a US problem in our hemisphere. So in both Israel and Ukraine I believe the amount of free support they get from the US is not strictly warranted.

In Ukraine's case, my view is they have lost the war. Which is unfortunate to say the least, but getting people killed because it hurts Russia is not going to undo that reality. So my opinion in Ukraine is to end the war on paper that has already been decided in reality.

On February 15 2026 05:14 Falling wrote:
anti-Free Trade and a hyper focus on ending trade deficits?

"Free trade" is like a 4 decades long right-wing corporatist trickle-down economics meme. I'm pro-fair trade and think a hegemon like the US must have the capability to handle core industries as part of its national security. Legitimately there is a national difference here. The differences force different policy priorities. A country like Canada, or Cuba, or Singapore, doesn't matter how geographically big or small or rich or poor, inherently experiences dependencies that it can't avoid, that huge countries at some level MUST avoid (or control with great care). Absolutely no offense to Canadians, of whom my uncle is one. The political calculus is different. Like it's okay if the US and Canada are codependent. It's not okay that the US relies on China. Whatever system made that result is wrong. Hyper-focus is a pendulum reaction to decades of no focus. Do I think the math always has to add up to $0 to be fair? No. The number is not the problem, the problem is what the number represents. Like if you decrease cholesterol in a population to stop heart attacks but it ends up that more of them die. Then you failed. The problem is what is happening to our economies, not the fact that it's approximated in a statistic.

On February 15 2026 05:14 Falling wrote:
Or domestically, the current use of presidential executive orders by declaring everything an emergency?

Most executive orders aren't to do with emergencies. They are simply the most official mechanism of how the president runs the branch that is subordinate to him. Along with proclamations and memoranda. They aren't ALL substitutes for policy that the president can't get passed as law through Congress.

Again I wonder the backdrop gauge you are using. The meme conception of the right is they want small government, so that means meek and ineffectual presidents. Yet being okay with presidents exercising their statutory authority either in Article 2 or delegated to them by acts of Congress - like the tariff powers - is also going to be right-coded? That would be a rhetorical trap, whether prepared deliberately or not.

I believe the president should be strong within their purview. I also believe Congress should be strong within their purview. But their (Congress's) own incompetence especially can't tie the other branches' hands. The president does appear stronger in comparison when Congress is a perpetual stalemate of childish corporatist cliques. Nevertheless, we need someone running the show.

On February 15 2026 05:14 Falling wrote:
Or what are your views on the ACA?

The ACA is a failure. It had no public option and has increased premiums way over the baseline trend. My view is: I wish it hadn't.

The temporary extended subsidies Democrats shut down the federal government over largely benefited people making $100k-$200k who don't need handouts. While there's still a nationwide Medicare gap below the poverty line. Besides all of which "coverage" is not "healthcare" and care quality per dollar has gotten even worse along with health outcomes.

On February 15 2026 05:14 Falling wrote:
How legitimate do you think Trump's grievances are regarding a) rigged voting b) fedsurrection?
And his most recent calls to 'nationalize the voting'.

Voter ID is like an 80/20 issue. And it's specifically in the constitution that Congress can decide how federal elections are run. Trump is not in the picture. I do not care about Trump's grievances. Like I do not care one time Trump said X number of people voted illegally, but we looked at Oregon and found they only registered about 1000 immigrants to vote through the DMV because they had driver's licenses, so Trump is exaggerating.

Fedsurrection if you're talking about the idea that "glowies" did January 6th, Patel made a similar mistake very early I saw, thinking when the FBI said they had agents on the ground he played it up like there were 250 undercover instigators. At some press conference or hearing. Which is a lie by misrepresentation. If that's basically what you're referring to here, then there was no "fedsurrection."

On February 15 2026 05:14 Falling wrote:
Or the removal of oversight over crypto plus the pausing of enforcing of the FCPA combined with Trump's enrichment efforts in international negotiations?

I am against all public crypto grifting and believe that should be kept within the private sector. That said, there are people who view crypto as a valid financial instrument and are into it. I'm not into it, like I'm not into mutual funds, but I don't have a problem with either existing. I really don't know that much except it's probably possible to go too far in criminalizing anything connected to crypto the way 10 years ago people thought bitcoin is just drug dealers. Or maybe I'm wrong and really it is all drug dealers and wire fraud, in which case less oversight is wrong.

The FCPA I had to look up, they paused in February and restarted in June?

Of all the subjects you listed these are probably the ones I'm most lacking on and would need to expand my knowledge of to fairly figure out any particular view I might have.

On February 15 2026 05:14 Falling wrote:
On February 14 2026 22:55 oBlade wrote:
I have no ideology, I just have ideas. On immigration specifically I'm around 80%-90% where Obama was 15 years ago which Reagan was to the left of.


So you claim:
1) To be a centrist
2) That your immigration position is 80-90% in line with Obama 15 years ago
And
3) Have really only defended Trump's current use of ICE in this administration.

#3 certainly not really only. My point is simply for example, say Trump launches a memecoin, which he did, and I read the news and am not in favor of it, but it doesn't happen to motivate me to post about it on a Starcraft website, I'm certainly not more motivated to prove, in some exculpatory fashion, my opposition to it after I open the website and see a European non-voter has already called me a fascist bootlicking Nazi for not having posted about it yet.

Obama the main thing we weren't aligned on is DACA. He implemented it knowing it was BS because they couldn't get it through Congress. He thinks it didn't go through Congress because it's good, I think it didn't go through Congress because it's bad. And Reagan's amnesty was empirically to the left of Obama.

On February 15 2026 05:14 Falling wrote:
Do you believe that Trump's current use of ICE is 80-90% similar to Obama 15 years ago and that this is a centrist position?

Yes. There is not a way to deport people without making some of them sad. Trump enforces more in sanctuary jurisdictions which causes leftists to follow DHS around and crash cars into them. Despite calling Obama the Deporter-in-Chief, leftists weren't as radicalized back then and they weren't as all-in on sanctuary policies.

So I genuinely think this is the most interesting thing you have written in this thread (that I can recall). Thank you for answering.
On February 14 2026 15:51 Falling wrote:
In my experience, people who claim they are neither Republican nor MAGA but reserve 95% of their attacks for Democrats and defend Trump to the hilt come from two major categories:
a) supposed centrists/ independents that are hiding their power levels as MAGA supporters as they know and run out every MAGA line of attack.**
b) supposed Democrats hiding their power levels as progressives/ Tiktok socialists (although these will not defend Trump but instead exclusively attack Democrats.)

Do you have anything interesting to say on how this conforms with or breaks your A/B categories? It's reductive as hell, but I'm wondering if its open to re-examination. He's to the left of the Republican mainstream for the last two decades on at least three issues.



Being to the left of republicans on 3 issues and that somehow making you a centrist is the perfect encapsulation of the republican party and politics in the US. If hes 95% in agreement with them hes still a republican, especially if he keeps voting for them. The republicans have so thoroughly convinced people that they have to fall in line and support the entirety of their platform, and their elected officials capitulate, that the above post can happen on TL.
I'm more interested in the directly addressed poster, Falling's, intersection from the long response and his presumption on A/B categories.

I'm aware that this forum could be 99% in agreement with him, but if that 1% disagreement is immigration, he will be deemed 95% in agreement with Republicans and a right-winger for that belief alone. He posted around 1500 words that show a breakdown on the left-right binary, so I'd read that before going off on some allegedly Republican habit of "falling in line."
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