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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!

NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.

Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.


If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread
Billyboy
Profile Joined September 2024
1598 Posts
December 07 2025 03:50 GMT
#107561
On December 07 2025 09:21 ETisME wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2025 09:13 Billyboy wrote:
Trump is 100% the reason countries are looking for stronger relationships with China, it’s not a question but a direct line. Canada went from ruining their relationship with China for arresting some one their best ally asked them too (US). To the US messing up their trade.

The US is unreliable, our economic policy is all around finding new and more reliable markets for our products.

The US can claim they are “fighting China” or whatever, but they are helping them massively.

Sure, do you think Japan would ever appease to China? Or Taiwan?
These are security first alliance.

It's ironic how Canadians voted a populist candidate to counter the populist US president.
How do you think the Hong Kongers who emigrated to Canada feel about all this? That Canada is a reliable ally?

Instead of negotiation with the actual ally right next to continent, they want to build a tie with CHINA. Not far different than EU wanting that sweet sweet Russia gas. But you do you.

Who knows in a few years time, they will find out what Netherlands is going through now.

What a brutal post. Not only are your facts wrong, like Carny is a populist. But where do I say I like it?

We want to negotiate with the USA, we have been top trading partners for basically forever. It is just that Trump is impossible to deal with. He has no idea what he wants and changes his mind based on who talked to him last. He also might be the dumbest (from an IQ point of view) and is for sure the least informed president of all time.

We of are of course strengthening our ties with Europe, which I do agree with, and I hope continues. But US trade is going to be what it is until the US elects a competent leader who lives in this actual reality.
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12702 Posts
December 07 2025 04:42 GMT
#107562
On December 07 2025 09:42 KwarK wrote:
Canadians not only didn’t vote for the populist, he lost his seat. They voted for the technocrat.

You are right. I mixed up nationalism and populist.
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43776 Posts
December 07 2025 04:44 GMT
#107563
On December 07 2025 13:42 ETisME wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2025 09:42 KwarK wrote:
Canadians not only didn’t vote for the populist, he lost his seat. They voted for the technocrat.

You are right. I mixed up nationalism and populist.

Canadians not only didn’t vote for the nationalist, he lost his seat. They voted for the technocrat
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12702 Posts
December 07 2025 05:33 GMT
#107564
On December 07 2025 12:50 Billyboy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2025 09:21 ETisME wrote:
On December 07 2025 09:13 Billyboy wrote:
Trump is 100% the reason countries are looking for stronger relationships with China, it’s not a question but a direct line. Canada went from ruining their relationship with China for arresting some one their best ally asked them too (US). To the US messing up their trade.

The US is unreliable, our economic policy is all around finding new and more reliable markets for our products.

The US can claim they are “fighting China” or whatever, but they are helping them massively.

Sure, do you think Japan would ever appease to China? Or Taiwan?
These are security first alliance.

It's ironic how Canadians voted a populist candidate to counter the populist US president.
How do you think the Hong Kongers who emigrated to Canada feel about all this? That Canada is a reliable ally?

Instead of negotiation with the actual ally right next to continent, they want to build a tie with CHINA. Not far different than EU wanting that sweet sweet Russia gas. But you do you.

Who knows in a few years time, they will find out what Netherlands is going through now.

What a brutal post. Not only are your facts wrong, like Carny is a populist. But where do I say I like it?

We want to negotiate with the USA, we have been top trading partners for basically forever. It is just that Trump is impossible to deal with. He has no idea what he wants and changes his mind based on who talked to him last. He also might be the dumbest (from an IQ point of view) and is for sure the least informed president of all time.

We of are of course strengthening our ties with Europe, which I do agree with, and I hope continues. But US trade is going to be what it is until the US elects a competent leader who lives in this actual reality.

Again, it's a matter of balancing security vs economic ties.

You would never see Taiwan or Japan being pushed into China. They have been decoupling with China for years, including rare earth. The US is trying to decouple as well.
Because they understand the cost of doing business with China isn't just about numbers.

The rest, Australia, Europe, Canada and even South Korea never could. That's why China is the next big market and logically for them it is the next to go to.

Canada would have never put on 100% tariff on Chinese EV without the US.
Europe fining big tech all the same, even when Xiaohongshu and Tiktok etc data is going to China/CCP.
Europe finally looking to ban Huawei for 6G, when the US asked them to remove Huawei for 5G.

Are these meant to be the more sounding governance?

Europe is now looking to be more self reliant, but also wanting more economic tie with China. I am interested to see how it will work out.
Canada, I wouldnt be surprised if some of the anti China policies will get reversed soon.
UK with the chinese super embassy drama.
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12702 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-12-07 05:39:46
December 07 2025 05:34 GMT
#107565
On December 07 2025 13:44 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2025 13:42 ETisME wrote:
On December 07 2025 09:42 KwarK wrote:
Canadians not only didn’t vote for the populist, he lost his seat. They voted for the technocrat.

You are right. I mixed up nationalism and populist.

Canadians not only didn’t vote for the nationalist, he lost his seat. They voted for the technocrat

You think he didn't got in because of anti trump nationalism but because he's a technocrat? Or else he would have been leading from the start.

Let me know if you want some nationalistic quote from the dude. highly motivational, gets my heart pumping.
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
Doublemint
Profile Joined July 2011
Austria8731 Posts
December 07 2025 08:05 GMT
#107566
you got it the wrong way. Poilievre lost because of nationalism yes. but Trump's nationalism.

turns out it's not cool to have superb neighborly relations turned to shreds(51st state rhetoric, tariffs and reneging on trade deals where the ink is not even dry... ICE and border control idiocies where CAN is the ultimate crime/fentanyl pusher apparently...) and cheering it on just to Anti-Trudeau the heck out of Canada itself.

pretty boy is gone, so is sleepy joe. move on and work for once in your god damn life... people are so over the blame games.

funnily enough those relations predate even POTUS "Senex" Trump by a long long time... so if he had half a brain and used a small fraction of that, all of this might have been prevented and CAN would look very different politically today.

by going full MAGA and USA#1 Trump put Poilievre in an impossible situation. one he deserved to be in imho as you cannot love the US so much and still call yourself a proud Canadian that wants to be PM. full surrender and making yourself at home in Trump's nether region is not that.

do I even need to mention the brain rot of ideas championed by US conservatives? that to all our detriment spread like wildfire all around the globe due to their TechHoeBro friends.

and devalue what has quite a lot to offer idea wise.

middle of the road conservatism based on decency, virtues and yes, values in a time where anything seems to go as long as it makes money... or wins elections. or worst of all, both in "personal union" of Mr. Trump _while_ in office.

Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before the fall.
Jankisa
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Croatia1304 Posts
December 07 2025 10:49 GMT
#107567
The NSS is basically paying lip service to the allies in south Pacific but you can bet your sweet ass that Trump and co will abandon Taiwan very quickly, they have been shown as completely unreliable ally to anyone outside of Israel, there is no way that Trump's gonna defend Taiwan, the best opportunity China has for taking it is between now and the 2028 elections.

This NSS telegraphs that from a mile away, the official strategy on Taiwan there is "we will build an even bigger military but also the allies there should do more", and even if that wasn't the case, there are so many other moves before it came out that did, form giving them AI chips as long as US gets an extra cut, to Trump refusing to say he'd defend Taiwan, unlike Biden and Democrats who had no problem with saying it.

China has very deep coffers, and Trump would sell Taiwan out in a heartbeat.

Also, I gotta say, ETisME is one of the funniest examples of confidentially incorrect posters ever, bad analysis, keeps on showing his absolute lack of knowledge of geopolitics and economy in every sentence, gets facts wrong all the time and yet he keeps on trucking.
So, are you a pessimist? - On my better days. Are you a nihilist? - Not as much as I should be.
Billyboy
Profile Joined September 2024
1598 Posts
December 07 2025 14:24 GMT
#107568
On December 07 2025 14:33 ETisME wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2025 12:50 Billyboy wrote:
On December 07 2025 09:21 ETisME wrote:
On December 07 2025 09:13 Billyboy wrote:
Trump is 100% the reason countries are looking for stronger relationships with China, it’s not a question but a direct line. Canada went from ruining their relationship with China for arresting some one their best ally asked them too (US). To the US messing up their trade.

The US is unreliable, our economic policy is all around finding new and more reliable markets for our products.

The US can claim they are “fighting China” or whatever, but they are helping them massively.

Sure, do you think Japan would ever appease to China? Or Taiwan?
These are security first alliance.

It's ironic how Canadians voted a populist candidate to counter the populist US president.
How do you think the Hong Kongers who emigrated to Canada feel about all this? That Canada is a reliable ally?

Instead of negotiation with the actual ally right next to continent, they want to build a tie with CHINA. Not far different than EU wanting that sweet sweet Russia gas. But you do you.

Who knows in a few years time, they will find out what Netherlands is going through now.

What a brutal post. Not only are your facts wrong, like Carny is a populist. But where do I say I like it?

We want to negotiate with the USA, we have been top trading partners for basically forever. It is just that Trump is impossible to deal with. He has no idea what he wants and changes his mind based on who talked to him last. He also might be the dumbest (from an IQ point of view) and is for sure the least informed president of all time.

We of are of course strengthening our ties with Europe, which I do agree with, and I hope continues. But US trade is going to be what it is until the US elects a competent leader who lives in this actual reality.

Again, it's a matter of balancing security vs economic ties.

You would never see Taiwan or Japan being pushed into China. They have been decoupling with China for years, including rare earth. The US is trying to decouple as well.
Because they understand the cost of doing business with China isn't just about numbers.

The rest, Australia, Europe, Canada and even South Korea never could. That's why China is the next big market and logically for them it is the next to go to.

Canada would have never put on 100% tariff on Chinese EV without the US.
Europe fining big tech all the same, even when Xiaohongshu and Tiktok etc data is going to China/CCP.
Europe finally looking to ban Huawei for 6G, when the US asked them to remove Huawei for 5G.

Are these meant to be the more sounding governance?

Europe is now looking to be more self reliant, but also wanting more economic tie with China. I am interested to see how it will work out.
Canada, I wouldnt be surprised if some of the anti China policies will get reversed soon.
UK with the chinese super embassy drama.

US is not decoupling with China, they are Decoupling with everyone pushing people toward a more reasonable economic partner in China. Global economic ties have been a huge win for everyone involved so when the biggest economy is led by a moron who does not understand the basics of economics gets involved it is a big win for the next biggest economy. That it is short term thinking for politicians who need votes every couple of years are making short term decisions is not some huge insight.

Trump is a huge win for China, even bigger than he was for Russia and his supporters think the opposite.

You are not seeing something other people are not, you just have some strange extreme confidence in your world view and are willing to make these huge sweeping statements of fact based on your assumptions. It is a strange thing to behold.
Billyboy
Profile Joined September 2024
1598 Posts
December 07 2025 14:29 GMT
#107569
On December 07 2025 17:05 Doublemint wrote:
you got it the wrong way. Poilievre lost because of nationalism yes. but Trump's nationalism.

turns out it's not cool to have superb neighborly relations turned to shreds(51st state rhetoric, tariffs and reneging on trade deals where the ink is not even dry... ICE and border control idiocies where CAN is the ultimate crime/fentanyl pusher apparently...) and cheering it on just to Anti-Trudeau the heck out of Canada itself.

pretty boy is gone, so is sleepy joe. move on and work for once in your god damn life... people are so over the blame games.

funnily enough those relations predate even POTUS "Senex" Trump by a long long time... so if he had half a brain and used a small fraction of that, all of this might have been prevented and CAN would look very different politically today.

by going full MAGA and USA#1 Trump put Poilievre in an impossible situation. one he deserved to be in imho as you cannot love the US so much and still call yourself a proud Canadian that wants to be PM. full surrender and making yourself at home in Trump's nether region is not that.

do I even need to mention the brain rot of ideas championed by US conservatives? that to all our detriment spread like wildfire all around the globe due to their TechHoeBro friends.

and devalue what has quite a lot to offer idea wise.

middle of the road conservatism based on decency, virtues and yes, values in a time where anything seems to go as long as it makes money... or wins elections. or worst of all, both in "personal union" of Mr. Trump _while_ in office.


It is true that Trump certainly hurt Pierre, but PP was winning big when he was up against JT. What Carney did was actually answer questions and articulate a plan. PP just stuck to his couple of talking points and crammed them in regardless of the question so he never answered anything Canadians asked. He also lost his own riding that was conservative forever because he wouldn't condemn the Trucker tantrum which killed small business in his riding and was so incredibly stupid since it happened when restrictions were already being lifted.

If PP had a spine and a personality he would have won big. Doug Ford, the Premier of our biggest province and also a conservative used Trump to gain popularity.

At the end of the day Carney was just much better than PP.
Doublemint
Profile Joined July 2011
Austria8731 Posts
December 07 2025 15:25 GMT
#107570
yeah, in retrospect it has been a crazy comeback. with JT/straight after JT's exit it was basically the Conservatives election to lose.

and losing they did. no shade for Carney who seems decent. at least for a banker turned politician.

Ford v. Trump is a match made in heaven.

Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before the fall.
Billyboy
Profile Joined September 2024
1598 Posts
December 07 2025 16:39 GMT
#107571
I'm not a Carney supporter by any stretch, but he seems far more competent than JT and loads better than Pierre.

Ford v Trump would be great for TV and late night hosts, probably bad for Canada (and the US to a lesser degree). The US is already hurting a little from the down turn in tourism and a move away economically. But we are small fries in comparison so they can always hurt us more.
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12702 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-12-07 21:41:49
December 07 2025 21:40 GMT
#107572
On December 07 2025 23:24 Billyboy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2025 14:33 ETisME wrote:
On December 07 2025 12:50 Billyboy wrote:
On December 07 2025 09:21 ETisME wrote:
On December 07 2025 09:13 Billyboy wrote:
Trump is 100% the reason countries are looking for stronger relationships with China, it’s not a question but a direct line. Canada went from ruining their relationship with China for arresting some one their best ally asked them too (US). To the US messing up their trade.

The US is unreliable, our economic policy is all around finding new and more reliable markets for our products.

The US can claim they are “fighting China” or whatever, but they are helping them massively.

Sure, do you think Japan would ever appease to China? Or Taiwan?
These are security first alliance.

It's ironic how Canadians voted a populist candidate to counter the populist US president.
How do you think the Hong Kongers who emigrated to Canada feel about all this? That Canada is a reliable ally?

Instead of negotiation with the actual ally right next to continent, they want to build a tie with CHINA. Not far different than EU wanting that sweet sweet Russia gas. But you do you.

Who knows in a few years time, they will find out what Netherlands is going through now.

What a brutal post. Not only are your facts wrong, like Carny is a populist. But where do I say I like it?

We want to negotiate with the USA, we have been top trading partners for basically forever. It is just that Trump is impossible to deal with. He has no idea what he wants and changes his mind based on who talked to him last. He also might be the dumbest (from an IQ point of view) and is for sure the least informed president of all time.

We of are of course strengthening our ties with Europe, which I do agree with, and I hope continues. But US trade is going to be what it is until the US elects a competent leader who lives in this actual reality.

Again, it's a matter of balancing security vs economic ties.

You would never see Taiwan or Japan being pushed into China. They have been decoupling with China for years, including rare earth. The US is trying to decouple as well.
Because they understand the cost of doing business with China isn't just about numbers.

The rest, Australia, Europe, Canada and even South Korea never could. That's why China is the next big market and logically for them it is the next to go to.

Canada would have never put on 100% tariff on Chinese EV without the US.
Europe fining big tech all the same, even when Xiaohongshu and Tiktok etc data is going to China/CCP.
Europe finally looking to ban Huawei for 6G, when the US asked them to remove Huawei for 5G.

Are these meant to be the more sounding governance?

Europe is now looking to be more self reliant, but also wanting more economic tie with China. I am interested to see how it will work out.
Canada, I wouldnt be surprised if some of the anti China policies will get reversed soon.
UK with the chinese super embassy drama.

US is not decoupling with China, they are Decoupling with everyone pushing people toward a more reasonable economic partner in China. Global economic ties have been a huge win for everyone involved so when the biggest economy is led by a moron who does not understand the basics of economics gets involved it is a big win for the next biggest economy. That it is short term thinking for politicians who need votes every couple of years are making short term decisions is not some huge insight.

Trump is a huge win for China, even bigger than he was for Russia and his supporters think the opposite.

You are not seeing something other people are not, you just have some strange extreme confidence in your world view and are willing to make these huge sweeping statements of fact based on your assumptions. It is a strange thing to behold.

Global economic ties have been a huge win if you consider funding China to no.2 economy is a huge win.

Taiwan lost the entire PCB sector to China because of favorable terms given to them years ago to move plants.
China are now holding the balls of Europe automotive sector.
Look at where new research money have been flowing to, China a lot via incentives.

Not only did the US not suffer from economic cantering level of inflation, it has growth, low unemployment level (almost historic level), and lowest unemployment claim amount since 2022.

Thinking china is a responsible trade partner despite the huge political threats with export control its imposing to Europe and Taiwan and US, is hilarious. But you do you.

China the biggest win under trump? Look at their economy and FDI level.
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
Billyboy
Profile Joined September 2024
1598 Posts
December 07 2025 21:57 GMT
#107573
Kind of amazing how you half read posts then answer with your predetermined position that is detached from the conversation over and over.
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12702 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-12-07 22:53:34
December 07 2025 22:32 GMT
#107574
On December 08 2025 06:57 Billyboy wrote:
Kind of amazing how you half read posts then answer with your predetermined position that is detached from the conversation over and over.

The global trade to China dominance, is relevant to the topic, no?
Your ranting about Trump and yet US economy is doing decentish, is not relevant to you?
China being reliable trading partner, think I have given more than enough examples, which one is not relevant?
China being the winner of trump, I don't see that from FDI, is FDI not relevant to how much foreign nations are investing in China?

Decoupling with everyone but US somehow having record level FDI is a sign they are not decoupling but aligning interest.

You can say I have my own position that you disagree with, but let's not say it detached from the conversation when it literally address your point. (Except the babbling about economic knowledge of trump etc)
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
Billyboy
Profile Joined September 2024
1598 Posts
December 08 2025 00:28 GMT
#107575
On December 08 2025 07:32 ETisME wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 08 2025 06:57 Billyboy wrote:
Kind of amazing how you half read posts then answer with your predetermined position that is detached from the conversation over and over.

The global trade to China dominance, is relevant to the topic, no?
Your ranting about Trump and yet US economy is doing decentish, is not relevant to you?
China being reliable trading partner, think I have given more than enough examples, which one is not relevant?
China being the winner of trump, I don't see that from FDI, is FDI not relevant to how much foreign nations are investing in China?

Decoupling with everyone but US somehow having record level FDI is a sign they are not decoupling but aligning interest.

You can say I have my own position that you disagree with, but let's not say it detached from the conversation when it literally address your point. (Except the babbling about economic knowledge of trump etc)

The biggest couple of issues with your posting is first you keep attributing opinions on me that I have not stated, or insinuated. I have said what and why they are doing it, not made value judgements.

Next Canada is not trying to completely replace the US economy, we would rather trade with the US, it is the "easiest" place to do so logistically and the cheapest. It also used to be pretty reliable other than things that you have to deal with anywhere such as exchange.

Next, you do not seem to understand what unreliable market means. I'll try to break it down to you with an industry that I know fairly well, agriculture. So farmers are making decisions on what to plant, years in advance. There are crop rotations which are very important for yields and long term sustainability of their farms (not ending up with unproductive soil). On top of that, the costs of the inputs are often 7 figures and large 6 figures even for small farms. Different markets want different products and even have different rules on what is allowed to be used as far as chemicals and even biological inputs. So when you have someone who has torn up two trade agreements and makes rules late night by tweet, which sometimes he follows, sometimes he doesn't, sometimes he changes the next day, other times waits a couple weeks, months, it can crush entire businesses. Often these farms hedge (especially the cattle, with a whole host of other problems) by preselling. That market swings by the day so wildly now it is more like gambling than a business. Many of the farms have commodity brokers either internally or externally and the skilled ones have lost the edge because there is no sense to any decision, it is now luck based.

Farmers in the province I live in used to have Trump bumper stickers, MAGA hats and the whole deal. Now they all think he is wildly incompetent and not fit for office. They want to be able to sell to MORE places than just the US so that they can run a business instead of playing the slots. Europe is everyone's first choice, many even have family in some of the countries (especially the Netherlands in my neck of the woods). But they also want to keep having a generational business.

On top of that we were happy to just sell to the US, but that put us in a terrible negotiating position because a moron could take over and crush businesses without other markets. The hope is that with more markets we will have more leverage and if the most insecure man on the planet gets his feelings hurt by a commercial it doesn't destroy livelihoods and also, if the US has to buy elsewhere, either at higher prices or lower quality we hope (though not with much confidence) that the US voters will realize that he is making America worse than its ever been.
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland26489 Posts
December 08 2025 00:49 GMT
#107576
Public sentiment also counts for something here. Sure there’s not a state on Earth where it’s 100% converted to state stances, but it does move the needle.

You seem to just totally discount what Europeans actually think (broadly speaking) from your prescriptions.

You seem to advocate for turning Europe into some deregulated hellhole so we can compete with the US, or China, and this isn’t particularly something that we want to do.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12702 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-12-08 01:22:17
December 08 2025 01:15 GMT
#107577
On December 08 2025 09:28 Billyboy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 08 2025 07:32 ETisME wrote:
On December 08 2025 06:57 Billyboy wrote:
Kind of amazing how you half read posts then answer with your predetermined position that is detached from the conversation over and over.

The global trade to China dominance, is relevant to the topic, no?
Your ranting about Trump and yet US economy is doing decentish, is not relevant to you?
China being reliable trading partner, think I have given more than enough examples, which one is not relevant?
China being the winner of trump, I don't see that from FDI, is FDI not relevant to how much foreign nations are investing in China?

Decoupling with everyone but US somehow having record level FDI is a sign they are not decoupling but aligning interest.

You can say I have my own position that you disagree with, but let's not say it detached from the conversation when it literally address your point. (Except the babbling about economic knowledge of trump etc)

The biggest couple of issues with your posting is first you keep attributing opinions on me that I have not stated, or insinuated. I have said what and why they are doing it, not made value judgements.

Next Canada is not trying to completely replace the US economy, we would rather trade with the US, it is the "easiest" place to do so logistically and the cheapest. It also used to be pretty reliable other than things that you have to deal with anywhere such as exchange.

Next, you do not seem to understand what unreliable market means. I'll try to break it down to you with an industry that I know fairly well, agriculture. So farmers are making decisions on what to plant, years in advance. There are crop rotations which are very important for yields and long term sustainability of their farms (not ending up with unproductive soil). On top of that, the costs of the inputs are often 7 figures and large 6 figures even for small farms. Different markets want different products and even have different rules on what is allowed to be used as far as chemicals and even biological inputs. So when you have someone who has torn up two trade agreements and makes rules late night by tweet, which sometimes he follows, sometimes he doesn't, sometimes he changes the next day, other times waits a couple weeks, months, it can crush entire businesses. Often these farms hedge (especially the cattle, with a whole host of other problems) by preselling. That market swings by the day so wildly now it is more like gambling than a business. Many of the farms have commodity brokers either internally or externally and the skilled ones have lost the edge because there is no sense to any decision, it is now luck based.

Farmers in the province I live in used to have Trump bumper stickers, MAGA hats and the whole deal. Now they all think he is wildly incompetent and not fit for office. They want to be able to sell to MORE places than just the US so that they can run a business instead of playing the slots. Europe is everyone's first choice, many even have family in some of the countries (especially the Netherlands in my neck of the woods). But they also want to keep having a generational business.

On top of that we were happy to just sell to the US, but that put us in a terrible negotiating position because a moron could take over and crush businesses without other markets. The hope is that with more markets we will have more leverage and if the most insecure man on the planet gets his feelings hurt by a commercial it doesn't destroy livelihoods and also, if the US has to buy elsewhere, either at higher prices or lower quality we hope (though not with much confidence) that the US voters will realize that he is making America worse than its ever been.

Well for one, you gave your own opinion.
You said China is a reliable trading partner, I didn't assume anything here.
I gave you enough examples why that's not the case.

China literally banned a few key Japan seafood regions import in just one day. The seafood export accounts for majority of those area income.
China also did something similar to Taiwan.
That's why I asked if you think Taiwan and Japan would be pushed to be friend with China.

Even Europe is looking to increase tie but with more trade tactics, France just threatened with tariff today FYI.
It was never a "global trade better for everyone". China never opened their market fully, and got funded to where it is today.

Russia would have never been able to fund the war without China help. The nuke option SWIFT cut off isn't enough. It's a complete disaster.

Barring all your rants about Trump, the US trade deficit remains just as high. So it's still importing similar level as 2022. So not only FDI is higher, the trade is doing just fine, economy looking just fine imo.
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
Manit0u
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Poland17707 Posts
December 08 2025 02:02 GMT
#107578
It's like talking to a bot
Time is precious. Waste it wisely.
Billyboy
Profile Joined September 2024
1598 Posts
December 08 2025 02:24 GMT
#107579
On December 08 2025 10:15 ETisME wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 08 2025 09:28 Billyboy wrote:
On December 08 2025 07:32 ETisME wrote:
On December 08 2025 06:57 Billyboy wrote:
Kind of amazing how you half read posts then answer with your predetermined position that is detached from the conversation over and over.

The global trade to China dominance, is relevant to the topic, no?
Your ranting about Trump and yet US economy is doing decentish, is not relevant to you?
China being reliable trading partner, think I have given more than enough examples, which one is not relevant?
China being the winner of trump, I don't see that from FDI, is FDI not relevant to how much foreign nations are investing in China?

Decoupling with everyone but US somehow having record level FDI is a sign they are not decoupling but aligning interest.

You can say I have my own position that you disagree with, but let's not say it detached from the conversation when it literally address your point. (Except the babbling about economic knowledge of trump etc)

The biggest couple of issues with your posting is first you keep attributing opinions on me that I have not stated, or insinuated. I have said what and why they are doing it, not made value judgements.

Next Canada is not trying to completely replace the US economy, we would rather trade with the US, it is the "easiest" place to do so logistically and the cheapest. It also used to be pretty reliable other than things that you have to deal with anywhere such as exchange.

Next, you do not seem to understand what unreliable market means. I'll try to break it down to you with an industry that I know fairly well, agriculture. So farmers are making decisions on what to plant, years in advance. There are crop rotations which are very important for yields and long term sustainability of their farms (not ending up with unproductive soil). On top of that, the costs of the inputs are often 7 figures and large 6 figures even for small farms. Different markets want different products and even have different rules on what is allowed to be used as far as chemicals and even biological inputs. So when you have someone who has torn up two trade agreements and makes rules late night by tweet, which sometimes he follows, sometimes he doesn't, sometimes he changes the next day, other times waits a couple weeks, months, it can crush entire businesses. Often these farms hedge (especially the cattle, with a whole host of other problems) by preselling. That market swings by the day so wildly now it is more like gambling than a business. Many of the farms have commodity brokers either internally or externally and the skilled ones have lost the edge because there is no sense to any decision, it is now luck based.

Farmers in the province I live in used to have Trump bumper stickers, MAGA hats and the whole deal. Now they all think he is wildly incompetent and not fit for office. They want to be able to sell to MORE places than just the US so that they can run a business instead of playing the slots. Europe is everyone's first choice, many even have family in some of the countries (especially the Netherlands in my neck of the woods). But they also want to keep having a generational business.

On top of that we were happy to just sell to the US, but that put us in a terrible negotiating position because a moron could take over and crush businesses without other markets. The hope is that with more markets we will have more leverage and if the most insecure man on the planet gets his feelings hurt by a commercial it doesn't destroy livelihoods and also, if the US has to buy elsewhere, either at higher prices or lower quality we hope (though not with much confidence) that the US voters will realize that he is making America worse than its ever been.

Well for one, you gave your own opinion.
You said China is a reliable trading partner, I didn't assume anything here.
I gave you enough examples why that's not the case.

China literally banned a few key Japan seafood regions import in just one day. The seafood export accounts for majority of those area income.
China also did something similar to Taiwan.
That's why I asked if you think Taiwan and Japan would be pushed to be friend with China.

Even Europe is looking to increase tie but with more trade tactics, France just threatened with tariff today FYI.
It was never a "global trade better for everyone". China never opened their market fully, and got funded to where it is today.

Russia would have never been able to fund the war without China help. The nuke option SWIFT cut off isn't enough. It's a complete disaster.

Barring all your rants about Trump, the US trade deficit remains just as high. So it's still importing similar level as 2022. So not only FDI is higher, the trade is doing just fine, economy looking just fine imo.

The reason you did not quote me is I did not say that, this is what I said.

US is not decoupling with China, they are Decoupling with everyone pushing people toward a more reasonable economic partner in China.


If I had said a hamburger is healthier than a fried chicken sandwich would you say that I said a hamburger is a very healthy meal?

This is like pathological with you. No conversation is possible because you are basically talking to yourself and no whatever the person has responded to you said.

On December 08 2025 11:02 Manit0u wrote:
It's like talking to a bot

Kind of is, it is wacky.
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12702 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-12-08 04:59:12
December 08 2025 04:21 GMT
#107580
On December 08 2025 11:24 Billyboy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 08 2025 10:15 ETisME wrote:
On December 08 2025 09:28 Billyboy wrote:
On December 08 2025 07:32 ETisME wrote:
On December 08 2025 06:57 Billyboy wrote:
Kind of amazing how you half read posts then answer with your predetermined position that is detached from the conversation over and over.

The global trade to China dominance, is relevant to the topic, no?
Your ranting about Trump and yet US economy is doing decentish, is not relevant to you?
China being reliable trading partner, think I have given more than enough examples, which one is not relevant?
China being the winner of trump, I don't see that from FDI, is FDI not relevant to how much foreign nations are investing in China?

Decoupling with everyone but US somehow having record level FDI is a sign they are not decoupling but aligning interest.

You can say I have my own position that you disagree with, but let's not say it detached from the conversation when it literally address your point. (Except the babbling about economic knowledge of trump etc)

The biggest couple of issues with your posting is first you keep attributing opinions on me that I have not stated, or insinuated. I have said what and why they are doing it, not made value judgements.

Next Canada is not trying to completely replace the US economy, we would rather trade with the US, it is the "easiest" place to do so logistically and the cheapest. It also used to be pretty reliable other than things that you have to deal with anywhere such as exchange.

Next, you do not seem to understand what unreliable market means. I'll try to break it down to you with an industry that I know fairly well, agriculture. So farmers are making decisions on what to plant, years in advance. There are crop rotations which are very important for yields and long term sustainability of their farms (not ending up with unproductive soil). On top of that, the costs of the inputs are often 7 figures and large 6 figures even for small farms. Different markets want different products and even have different rules on what is allowed to be used as far as chemicals and even biological inputs. So when you have someone who has torn up two trade agreements and makes rules late night by tweet, which sometimes he follows, sometimes he doesn't, sometimes he changes the next day, other times waits a couple weeks, months, it can crush entire businesses. Often these farms hedge (especially the cattle, with a whole host of other problems) by preselling. That market swings by the day so wildly now it is more like gambling than a business. Many of the farms have commodity brokers either internally or externally and the skilled ones have lost the edge because there is no sense to any decision, it is now luck based.

Farmers in the province I live in used to have Trump bumper stickers, MAGA hats and the whole deal. Now they all think he is wildly incompetent and not fit for office. They want to be able to sell to MORE places than just the US so that they can run a business instead of playing the slots. Europe is everyone's first choice, many even have family in some of the countries (especially the Netherlands in my neck of the woods). But they also want to keep having a generational business.

On top of that we were happy to just sell to the US, but that put us in a terrible negotiating position because a moron could take over and crush businesses without other markets. The hope is that with more markets we will have more leverage and if the most insecure man on the planet gets his feelings hurt by a commercial it doesn't destroy livelihoods and also, if the US has to buy elsewhere, either at higher prices or lower quality we hope (though not with much confidence) that the US voters will realize that he is making America worse than its ever been.

Well for one, you gave your own opinion.
You said China is a reliable trading partner, I didn't assume anything here.
I gave you enough examples why that's not the case.

China literally banned a few key Japan seafood regions import in just one day. The seafood export accounts for majority of those area income.
China also did something similar to Taiwan.
That's why I asked if you think Taiwan and Japan would be pushed to be friend with China.

Even Europe is looking to increase tie but with more trade tactics, France just threatened with tariff today FYI.
It was never a "global trade better for everyone". China never opened their market fully, and got funded to where it is today.

Russia would have never been able to fund the war without China help. The nuke option SWIFT cut off isn't enough. It's a complete disaster.

Barring all your rants about Trump, the US trade deficit remains just as high. So it's still importing similar level as 2022. So not only FDI is higher, the trade is doing just fine, economy looking just fine imo.

The reason you did not quote me is I did not say that, this is what I said.

Show nested quote +
US is not decoupling with China, they are Decoupling with everyone pushing people toward a more reasonable economic partner in China.


If I had said a hamburger is healthier than a fried chicken sandwich would you say that I said a hamburger is a very healthy meal?

This is like pathological with you. No conversation is possible because you are basically talking to yourself and no whatever the person has responded to you said.

Show nested quote +
On December 08 2025 11:02 Manit0u wrote:
It's like talking to a bot

Kind of is, it is wacky.

"our economic policy is all around finding new and more reliable markets for our products."

I understood it as so, because Canada PM saying they want more economic ties with China.
So china is not part of what you mean "new and more reliable markets", but Canada as a nation is looking at trading more with China. Got it.

"More reasonable trading partner" being China, is an interesting concept though.
Good luck have fun.

Did you know France just threatened China with tariff over the trade surplus? Maybe China is now pushed to Canada even more now. Have fun!!

Hey, at least I do not hero derp about trump economic knowledge despite all the economic indicators are telling you the US economy is doing just fine under Trump
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
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