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Wasn't Kamala focusing on all the right things in her campaign? She still lost.
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On September 22 2025 15:47 Uldridge wrote:
How long are the Dems in this thread back the Dems? All talk of lesser evilism aside, is there a line you can draw where you'll say: this ain't it, they just keep rolling over like spineless toothless maggots, so I'll just vote for another instead.
At a certain point you'll have to realize that getting donated 100s of millions of dollars isn't coming from "the people" who want what's in their best interests, but from billionaires who are basically investing on social stock to get what's in theirs. And yes, the donor class is a meme at this point, but what have the Dems done lately to stop regression? Seems like California is the last bastion.
It's a laudable sentiment. It's the point GH has been repeating over and over and over for the last couple of years. I mean, it's great to have principles and sticking by them.
The problem comes in when the reality on the ground is that the other 'greater evil' in the equation is poised to undo all progressive's progress within the span of a single presidency while also making it harder for future progressives to enact the agenda that you do want (think the makeup of the SC or district redrawing, whatever voting-supression shenanigans gets enacted next, silencing progressive voices, etc.)
Do you still hold to your values and keep shitting on the 'lesser evil' because they've crossed your arbitrarily chosen line or do you vote for and support the party strategically so its not actively harder to enact the agenda you do want?
GH holds a very nihilistic view, where no matter what he chooses the outcome is 'equally bad' (because his red line has been crossed). For the rest of us, we gotta live here too and we would like it to be less shitty.
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Not really, she maintained a small target strategy in a world where that just isn’t viable. Her campaign is the one that refused to hold any real position on Israel/Palestine to such a degree that Trump was able to look like the more empathetic individual towards Palestinian grievances.
The other thing that must be stated is that the American people are really like to compartmentalise and file away their issues when they don’t want to think about them anymore. Inflation hasn’t really subsided, everything is still outrageously expensive, people still can’t afford rent, things are still getting more expensive yet the whining about cost of living that you would hear every single second on every single political social media short has completely vanished because ???
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On September 21 2025 21:11 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2025 08:47 Vivax wrote:
Good to know that influencers, social media and politicians have an opinion on the motivator for crimes before law enforcement does.
ya that's pretty bullshit. who is the shooter and who moved the camera? https://www.youtube.com/shorts/LrGha11vgmsCandace Owens offers a healthy level of skepticism regarding Kirk's death.
I don't know her.
But (in general):
People having podcasts pretending to be journalists is like receiving healthcare via gofundme.
It's late stage cancer to a society thas is living for and via "clicks".
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There comes a point in time where you'll have to ask yourself: do you take part in that systematic destruction of a democratic society, which has a very chroncled playbook (last iteration I know of were The Philippines and Brazil) by either supporting it or passively letting it happen or do you stand up and counter this erosion, followed by destruction?
I'm asking the people here who staunchly vote D, what their arbitrary line is. There is a point where your party, which I commend that you follow for lesser evilism sake, does become unredemptionable + Show Spoiler +(irredeemable is correct but I speak Dutch so I can make that word and you know what it means anyway so whatever)
I don't think anyone here has spoken out for what their own limit would be and am interested in taking the temperature on what it actually is.
Democracy can be a legitimately difficult to navigate landscape because you have an eniterly opposed ideology that always wants to revert to "the good times" where there were less rights and society was less liberal so you can't cry out: fascism every single time a cabinet can do its thing with the support of half the population, but still, there should be a better way then losing control this fast, no?
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On September 22 2025 09:29 WombaT wrote:
ICE are not operating under those conditions. They are meant to enforce the law of the land, in a nation that doesn’t have an active terrorist campaign operating.
Tell it to Charlie Kirk kids, people whose Teslas were burned, business owners whose shops were burned.
On September 22 2025 10:59 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2025 07:29 Razyda wrote:On September 22 2025 07:15 WombaT wrote:On September 22 2025 06:57 Razyda wrote:On September 21 2025 09:08 WombaT wrote:That’s a good move. Smart politics if I dare say. It’s not going to be popular amongst the ‘no humans are illegal’ or ‘I hate foreigners’ crowd, but realistically nothing Gavin Newsom is likely to do is going to appeal to either of those. He’s not giving illegal immigrants a free pass, which like it or not is obviously a big issue for many. I’d assume the average, middle of the road person is pro deporting illegal migrants, but not some of the processes we’ve seen lately. Anyone arguing against what Newsom’s bringing in has to make the argument that ICE need to be able to pick up people without warrants, and obscure their identity Outside of MAGA land, I don’t think that’s a winning argument, unless the US is even more fucked than I think it is. I mean I can see an argument for ICE agents obscuring themselves if they’re part of a raid on like a genuinely big, dangerous drug racket or something, but not for random immigration sweeps. Oh ffs. In other and even more breaking news I signed the bill making California Polish colony... What’s wrong with that? Newsom hasn’t declared anything like sanctuary cities or anything like that. Hasn’t said illegal migrants have any kind of immunity from deportation, simply: 1. ICE can’t just hang around in various locales and scoop up non-white folks and sort their status after the fact. They need to do the paperwork and get warrants. 2. ICE can’t obscure their identity Throw a bone to some who are concerned with how ICE is operating, for others who are concerned with illegal immigration, he’s also not ruling out enforcement. People who oppose this move have to make the argument that ICE don’t need warrants or probable cause to operate, and also should be allowed to obscure their identity. Which isn’t a winning argument for all but the further reaches of the right. Who aren’t going to vote for Newsom anyway, even if Jesus decided to pop back and endorse him. I think it’s pretty smart politics from him. I think he’s also engaged in some dumb politics in recent times but not on this one IMO. From what I gather ICE is a "FEDERAL" law enforcement agency, hence Newsom may as well cede Russia to China and it will be of the same significance. As for obscure identity - really?? Come on Wombat you are not stupid. Kirk had security team and I guess he was not a poor guy, how much did it help him? The only reason people want ICE agent to not wear masks is so they can dox them and threat them and their families. Why else would you want to see their faces? If your job involves dragging people off the street into unmarked vans and those people can’t subsequently be found then maybe it’s not the worst idea that people can see your face.
So you think their superiors dont know who they are? That if served judge warrant they wont reveal their identity to a judge/ appropriate law enforcement?
Like I said, the only reason "people" would want to see their faces, is so they can threaten them/their families.
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On September 22 2025 17:19 Uldridge wrote:There comes a point in time where you'll have to ask yourself: do you take part in that systematic destruction of a democratic society, which has a very chroncled playbook (last iteration I know of were The Philippines and Brazil) by either supporting it or passively letting it happen or do you stand up and counter this erosion, followed by destruction? I'm asking the people here who staunchly vote D, what their arbitrary line is. There is a point where your party, which I commend that you follow for lesser evilism sake, does become unredemptionable + Show Spoiler +(irredeemable is correct but I speak Dutch so I can make that word and you know what it means anyway so whatever) ? I don't think anyone here has spoken out for what their own limit would be and am interested in taking the temperature on what it actually is. Democracy can be a legitimately difficult to navigate landscape because you have an eniterly opposed ideology that always wants to revert to "the good times" where there were less rights and society was less liberal so you can't cry out: fascism every single time a cabinet can do its thing with the support of half the population, but still, there should be a better way then losing control this fast, no?
Refusing to engage in lesser evilism doesn't make the greater evil lose it just makes the lesser evil weaker. There should be a better way yes, but the way to make that better way isn't to make the world a worse place to live in. There is no arbitrary limit in the world that you can't chose the lesser evil and work to make the better place. I just fail to see what the real benifit there is to anyone standing up and advocating for the lesser evil to lose.
If you refuse to be there for others why would you expect people to be there for you?
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On September 22 2025 11:12 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2025 10:59 KwarK wrote:On September 22 2025 07:29 Razyda wrote:On September 22 2025 07:15 WombaT wrote:On September 22 2025 06:57 Razyda wrote:On September 21 2025 09:08 WombaT wrote:That’s a good move. Smart politics if I dare say. It’s not going to be popular amongst the ‘no humans are illegal’ or ‘I hate foreigners’ crowd, but realistically nothing Gavin Newsom is likely to do is going to appeal to either of those. He’s not giving illegal immigrants a free pass, which like it or not is obviously a big issue for many. I’d assume the average, middle of the road person is pro deporting illegal migrants, but not some of the processes we’ve seen lately. Anyone arguing against what Newsom’s bringing in has to make the argument that ICE need to be able to pick up people without warrants, and obscure their identity Outside of MAGA land, I don’t think that’s a winning argument, unless the US is even more fucked than I think it is. I mean I can see an argument for ICE agents obscuring themselves if they’re part of a raid on like a genuinely big, dangerous drug racket or something, but not for random immigration sweeps. Oh ffs. In other and even more breaking news I signed the bill making California Polish colony... What’s wrong with that? Newsom hasn’t declared anything like sanctuary cities or anything like that. Hasn’t said illegal migrants have any kind of immunity from deportation, simply: 1. ICE can’t just hang around in various locales and scoop up non-white folks and sort their status after the fact. They need to do the paperwork and get warrants. 2. ICE can’t obscure their identity Throw a bone to some who are concerned with how ICE is operating, for others who are concerned with illegal immigration, he’s also not ruling out enforcement. People who oppose this move have to make the argument that ICE don’t need warrants or probable cause to operate, and also should be allowed to obscure their identity. Which isn’t a winning argument for all but the further reaches of the right. Who aren’t going to vote for Newsom anyway, even if Jesus decided to pop back and endorse him. I think it’s pretty smart politics from him. I think he’s also engaged in some dumb politics in recent times but not on this one IMO. From what I gather ICE is a "FEDERAL" law enforcement agency, hence Newsom may as well cede Russia to China and it will be of the same significance. As for obscure identity - really?? Come on Wombat you are not stupid. Kirk had security team and I guess he was not a poor guy, how much did it help him? The only reason people want ICE agent to not wear masks is so they can dox them and threat them and their families. Why else would you want to see their faces? If your job involves dragging people off the street into unmarked vans and those people can’t subsequently be found then maybe it’s not the worst idea that people can see your face. Are you proud of being such a liberal cuck? Also #Don’tTreadOnMe and #FightTheDeepState Like I can read the biggest slop, written by some hack writer trying to sell interdimensional beings and still somewhat be able to put myself into their headspace. I genuinely cannot figure out how some of the right’s brains work, despite them being both, real entities and of my actual species. It’s fucking bonkers
MAGA cherishes the past, it's literally in the slogan. They embrace racism because 1) that's just the cost of going back to the glory days and 2) racism is good anyway.
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On September 22 2025 15:47 Uldridge wrote:
How long are the Dems in this thread back the Dems? All talk of lesser evilism aside, is there a line you can draw where you'll say: this ain't it, they just keep rolling over like spineless toothless maggots, so I'll just vote for another instead.
At a certain point you'll have to realize that getting donated 100s of millions of dollars isn't coming from "the people" who want what's in their best interests, but from billionaires who are basically investing on social stock to get what's in theirs. And yes, the donor class is a meme at this point, but what have the Dems done lately to stop regression? Seems like California is the last bastion. I think most in this thread would love to.
So who is the other here?
Outside of trying to force movement via primaries, what other party is there to vote for that would be better?
Is there even anyone else on the ballot in every state?
(And that is ignoring the issue of a split vote just handing evry victory to Republicans for the foreseeable future)
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On September 22 2025 16:02 maybenexttime wrote:
Wasn't Kamala focusing on all the right things in her campaign? She still lost.
Psst, don't you dare stopping the cyclejerk that Dems bad!
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On September 22 2025 15:47 Uldridge wrote:
How long are the Dems in this thread back the Dems? All talk of lesser evilism aside, is there a line you can draw where you'll say: this ain't it, they just keep rolling over like spineless toothless maggots, so I'll just vote for another instead.
At a certain point you'll have to realize that getting donated 100s of millions of dollars isn't coming from "the people" who want what's in their best interests, but from billionaires who are basically investing on social stock to get what's in theirs. And yes, the donor class is a meme at this point, but what have the Dems done lately to stop regression? Seems like California is the last bastion.
Democrats and Republicans receive similar amounts of donations from billionaires. The only reason why specifically in 2024 Harris received more was because she had to play catch-up.
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United Kingdom10005 Posts
On September 22 2025 17:42 Razyda wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2025 09:29 WombaT wrote:
ICE are not operating under those conditions. They are meant to enforce the law of the land, in a nation that doesn’t have an active terrorist campaign operating.
Tell it to Charlie Kirk kids, people whose Teslas were burned, business owners whose shops were burned. Show nested quote +On September 22 2025 10:59 KwarK wrote:On September 22 2025 07:29 Razyda wrote:On September 22 2025 07:15 WombaT wrote:On September 22 2025 06:57 Razyda wrote:On September 21 2025 09:08 WombaT wrote:That’s a good move. Smart politics if I dare say. It’s not going to be popular amongst the ‘no humans are illegal’ or ‘I hate foreigners’ crowd, but realistically nothing Gavin Newsom is likely to do is going to appeal to either of those. He’s not giving illegal immigrants a free pass, which like it or not is obviously a big issue for many. I’d assume the average, middle of the road person is pro deporting illegal migrants, but not some of the processes we’ve seen lately. Anyone arguing against what Newsom’s bringing in has to make the argument that ICE need to be able to pick up people without warrants, and obscure their identity Outside of MAGA land, I don’t think that’s a winning argument, unless the US is even more fucked than I think it is. I mean I can see an argument for ICE agents obscuring themselves if they’re part of a raid on like a genuinely big, dangerous drug racket or something, but not for random immigration sweeps. Oh ffs. In other and even more breaking news I signed the bill making California Polish colony... What’s wrong with that? Newsom hasn’t declared anything like sanctuary cities or anything like that. Hasn’t said illegal migrants have any kind of immunity from deportation, simply: 1. ICE can’t just hang around in various locales and scoop up non-white folks and sort their status after the fact. They need to do the paperwork and get warrants. 2. ICE can’t obscure their identity Throw a bone to some who are concerned with how ICE is operating, for others who are concerned with illegal immigration, he’s also not ruling out enforcement. People who oppose this move have to make the argument that ICE don’t need warrants or probable cause to operate, and also should be allowed to obscure their identity. Which isn’t a winning argument for all but the further reaches of the right. Who aren’t going to vote for Newsom anyway, even if Jesus decided to pop back and endorse him. I think it’s pretty smart politics from him. I think he’s also engaged in some dumb politics in recent times but not on this one IMO. From what I gather ICE is a "FEDERAL" law enforcement agency, hence Newsom may as well cede Russia to China and it will be of the same significance. As for obscure identity - really?? Come on Wombat you are not stupid. Kirk had security team and I guess he was not a poor guy, how much did it help him? The only reason people want ICE agent to not wear masks is so they can dox them and threat them and their families. Why else would you want to see their faces? If your job involves dragging people off the street into unmarked vans and those people can’t subsequently be found then maybe it’s not the worst idea that people can see your face. So you think their superiors dont know who they are? That if served judge warrant they wont reveal their identity to a judge/ appropriate law enforcement? Like I said, the only reason "people" would want to see their faces, is so they can threaten them/their families.
I think some of these "people" might have another reason:
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/multiple-men-impersonated-ice-agents-180020680.html
House Democrats are urging the Department of Homeland Security to mandate that immigration officials clearly identify themselves when conducting arrests. The demand comes in the wake of multiple reports of men impersonating Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents to kidnap and assault women.
The Democratic Women’s Caucus demanded action in a Monday letter sent to DHS Secretary Kristi Noem and other Trump administration officials. The letter, signed by 33 DWC members and shared exclusively with HuffPost, urges ICE agents to “visibly and clearly identify themselves when conducting immigration enforcement activities to stop enabling impersonators who leverage women’s uncertainty and fear of immigration consequences to rape, harass, and abuse them.”
Its almost as if when you put on a balaclava and try to forcibly remove someone from their house into the back of a van, there is absolutely no difference between you and a kidnapper/rapist.
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People should listen to Charlie Kirk. He argued against empathy. This is not a random talking point, he was paving the way for Trump's anti-minority views. Support for Trump only works with a selective application of empathy.
Empathy only flares up whenever a Trump supporter is in harm's way, such as Charlie Kirk himself. Suddenly empathy matters again. The selectivity of empathy is a key part of the cult behavior.
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On September 22 2025 18:12 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2025 17:42 Razyda wrote:On September 22 2025 09:29 WombaT wrote:
ICE are not operating under those conditions. They are meant to enforce the law of the land, in a nation that doesn’t have an active terrorist campaign operating.
Tell it to Charlie Kirk kids, people whose Teslas were burned, business owners whose shops were burned. On September 22 2025 10:59 KwarK wrote:On September 22 2025 07:29 Razyda wrote:On September 22 2025 07:15 WombaT wrote:On September 22 2025 06:57 Razyda wrote:On September 21 2025 09:08 WombaT wrote:That’s a good move. Smart politics if I dare say. It’s not going to be popular amongst the ‘no humans are illegal’ or ‘I hate foreigners’ crowd, but realistically nothing Gavin Newsom is likely to do is going to appeal to either of those. He’s not giving illegal immigrants a free pass, which like it or not is obviously a big issue for many. I’d assume the average, middle of the road person is pro deporting illegal migrants, but not some of the processes we’ve seen lately. Anyone arguing against what Newsom’s bringing in has to make the argument that ICE need to be able to pick up people without warrants, and obscure their identity Outside of MAGA land, I don’t think that’s a winning argument, unless the US is even more fucked than I think it is. I mean I can see an argument for ICE agents obscuring themselves if they’re part of a raid on like a genuinely big, dangerous drug racket or something, but not for random immigration sweeps. Oh ffs. In other and even more breaking news I signed the bill making California Polish colony... What’s wrong with that? Newsom hasn’t declared anything like sanctuary cities or anything like that. Hasn’t said illegal migrants have any kind of immunity from deportation, simply: 1. ICE can’t just hang around in various locales and scoop up non-white folks and sort their status after the fact. They need to do the paperwork and get warrants. 2. ICE can’t obscure their identity Throw a bone to some who are concerned with how ICE is operating, for others who are concerned with illegal immigration, he’s also not ruling out enforcement. People who oppose this move have to make the argument that ICE don’t need warrants or probable cause to operate, and also should be allowed to obscure their identity. Which isn’t a winning argument for all but the further reaches of the right. Who aren’t going to vote for Newsom anyway, even if Jesus decided to pop back and endorse him. I think it’s pretty smart politics from him. I think he’s also engaged in some dumb politics in recent times but not on this one IMO. From what I gather ICE is a "FEDERAL" law enforcement agency, hence Newsom may as well cede Russia to China and it will be of the same significance. As for obscure identity - really?? Come on Wombat you are not stupid. Kirk had security team and I guess he was not a poor guy, how much did it help him? The only reason people want ICE agent to not wear masks is so they can dox them and threat them and their families. Why else would you want to see their faces? If your job involves dragging people off the street into unmarked vans and those people can’t subsequently be found then maybe it’s not the worst idea that people can see your face. So you think their superiors dont know who they are? That if served judge warrant they wont reveal their identity to a judge/ appropriate law enforcement? Like I said, the only reason "people" would want to see their faces, is so they can threaten them/their families. I think some of these "people" might have another reason: https://ca.news.yahoo.com/multiple-men-impersonated-ice-agents-180020680.htmlShow nested quote +House Democrats are urging the Department of Homeland Security to mandate that immigration officials clearly identify themselves when conducting arrests. The demand comes in the wake of multiple reports of men impersonating Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents to kidnap and assault women.
The Democratic Women’s Caucus demanded action in a Monday letter sent to DHS Secretary Kristi Noem and other Trump administration officials. The letter, signed by 33 DWC members and shared exclusively with HuffPost, urges ICE agents to “visibly and clearly identify themselves when conducting immigration enforcement activities to stop enabling impersonators who leverage women’s uncertainty and fear of immigration consequences to rape, harass, and abuse them.” Its almost as if when you put on a balaclava and try to load someone into the back of a van, there is absolutely no difference between you and a criminal rapist.
Yeah thats horrible. However it were not ICE agents who did it? In what way ICE agents not wearing masks would prevent it??
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United Kingdom10005 Posts
On September 22 2025 18:17 Razyda wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2025 18:12 Jockmcplop wrote:On September 22 2025 17:42 Razyda wrote:On September 22 2025 09:29 WombaT wrote:
ICE are not operating under those conditions. They are meant to enforce the law of the land, in a nation that doesn’t have an active terrorist campaign operating.
Tell it to Charlie Kirk kids, people whose Teslas were burned, business owners whose shops were burned. On September 22 2025 10:59 KwarK wrote:On September 22 2025 07:29 Razyda wrote:On September 22 2025 07:15 WombaT wrote:On September 22 2025 06:57 Razyda wrote:On September 21 2025 09:08 WombaT wrote:That’s a good move. Smart politics if I dare say. It’s not going to be popular amongst the ‘no humans are illegal’ or ‘I hate foreigners’ crowd, but realistically nothing Gavin Newsom is likely to do is going to appeal to either of those. He’s not giving illegal immigrants a free pass, which like it or not is obviously a big issue for many. I’d assume the average, middle of the road person is pro deporting illegal migrants, but not some of the processes we’ve seen lately. Anyone arguing against what Newsom’s bringing in has to make the argument that ICE need to be able to pick up people without warrants, and obscure their identity Outside of MAGA land, I don’t think that’s a winning argument, unless the US is even more fucked than I think it is. I mean I can see an argument for ICE agents obscuring themselves if they’re part of a raid on like a genuinely big, dangerous drug racket or something, but not for random immigration sweeps. Oh ffs. In other and even more breaking news I signed the bill making California Polish colony... What’s wrong with that? Newsom hasn’t declared anything like sanctuary cities or anything like that. Hasn’t said illegal migrants have any kind of immunity from deportation, simply: 1. ICE can’t just hang around in various locales and scoop up non-white folks and sort their status after the fact. They need to do the paperwork and get warrants. 2. ICE can’t obscure their identity Throw a bone to some who are concerned with how ICE is operating, for others who are concerned with illegal immigration, he’s also not ruling out enforcement. People who oppose this move have to make the argument that ICE don’t need warrants or probable cause to operate, and also should be allowed to obscure their identity. Which isn’t a winning argument for all but the further reaches of the right. Who aren’t going to vote for Newsom anyway, even if Jesus decided to pop back and endorse him. I think it’s pretty smart politics from him. I think he’s also engaged in some dumb politics in recent times but not on this one IMO. From what I gather ICE is a "FEDERAL" law enforcement agency, hence Newsom may as well cede Russia to China and it will be of the same significance. As for obscure identity - really?? Come on Wombat you are not stupid. Kirk had security team and I guess he was not a poor guy, how much did it help him? The only reason people want ICE agent to not wear masks is so they can dox them and threat them and their families. Why else would you want to see their faces? If your job involves dragging people off the street into unmarked vans and those people can’t subsequently be found then maybe it’s not the worst idea that people can see your face. So you think their superiors dont know who they are? That if served judge warrant they wont reveal their identity to a judge/ appropriate law enforcement? Like I said, the only reason "people" would want to see their faces, is so they can threaten them/their families. I think some of these "people" might have another reason: https://ca.news.yahoo.com/multiple-men-impersonated-ice-agents-180020680.htmlHouse Democrats are urging the Department of Homeland Security to mandate that immigration officials clearly identify themselves when conducting arrests. The demand comes in the wake of multiple reports of men impersonating Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents to kidnap and assault women.
The Democratic Women’s Caucus demanded action in a Monday letter sent to DHS Secretary Kristi Noem and other Trump administration officials. The letter, signed by 33 DWC members and shared exclusively with HuffPost, urges ICE agents to “visibly and clearly identify themselves when conducting immigration enforcement activities to stop enabling impersonators who leverage women’s uncertainty and fear of immigration consequences to rape, harass, and abuse them.” Its almost as if when you put on a balaclava and try to load someone into the back of a van, there is absolutely no difference between you and a criminal rapist. Yeah thats horrible. However it were not ICE agents who did it? In what way ICE agents not wearing masks would prevent it??
Because if ICE agents had to clearly identify themselves in a consistent manner across the country it would be much harder to impersonate them.
If they had official vans, official gear that they all wear, official government identification etc.
Putting a balaclava on, its more like the ICE agents are impersonating criminals than the criminals impersonating ICE agents.
The most direct answer to your question is that if ICE agents weren't wearing masks, criminals would have to show their faces while kidnapping people, or people wouldn't believe so easily that they are ICE agents. Kidnappers and rapists don't want to show their faces in public, partly for the exact same reasons ICE agents don't.
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On September 22 2025 17:42 Razyda wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2025 09:29 WombaT wrote:
ICE are not operating under those conditions. They are meant to enforce the law of the land, in a nation that doesn’t have an active terrorist campaign operating.
Tell it to Charlie Kirk kids, people whose Teslas were burned, business owners whose shops were burned.
What does ICE have to do with Charlie Kirk's assassination?
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On September 22 2025 18:22 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2025 18:17 Razyda wrote:On September 22 2025 18:12 Jockmcplop wrote:On September 22 2025 17:42 Razyda wrote:On September 22 2025 09:29 WombaT wrote:
ICE are not operating under those conditions. They are meant to enforce the law of the land, in a nation that doesn’t have an active terrorist campaign operating.
Tell it to Charlie Kirk kids, people whose Teslas were burned, business owners whose shops were burned. On September 22 2025 10:59 KwarK wrote:On September 22 2025 07:29 Razyda wrote:On September 22 2025 07:15 WombaT wrote:On September 22 2025 06:57 Razyda wrote:On September 21 2025 09:08 WombaT wrote:That’s a good move. Smart politics if I dare say. It’s not going to be popular amongst the ‘no humans are illegal’ or ‘I hate foreigners’ crowd, but realistically nothing Gavin Newsom is likely to do is going to appeal to either of those. He’s not giving illegal immigrants a free pass, which like it or not is obviously a big issue for many. I’d assume the average, middle of the road person is pro deporting illegal migrants, but not some of the processes we’ve seen lately. Anyone arguing against what Newsom’s bringing in has to make the argument that ICE need to be able to pick up people without warrants, and obscure their identity Outside of MAGA land, I don’t think that’s a winning argument, unless the US is even more fucked than I think it is. I mean I can see an argument for ICE agents obscuring themselves if they’re part of a raid on like a genuinely big, dangerous drug racket or something, but not for random immigration sweeps. Oh ffs. In other and even more breaking news I signed the bill making California Polish colony... What’s wrong with that? Newsom hasn’t declared anything like sanctuary cities or anything like that. Hasn’t said illegal migrants have any kind of immunity from deportation, simply: 1. ICE can’t just hang around in various locales and scoop up non-white folks and sort their status after the fact. They need to do the paperwork and get warrants. 2. ICE can’t obscure their identity Throw a bone to some who are concerned with how ICE is operating, for others who are concerned with illegal immigration, he’s also not ruling out enforcement. People who oppose this move have to make the argument that ICE don’t need warrants or probable cause to operate, and also should be allowed to obscure their identity. Which isn’t a winning argument for all but the further reaches of the right. Who aren’t going to vote for Newsom anyway, even if Jesus decided to pop back and endorse him. I think it’s pretty smart politics from him. I think he’s also engaged in some dumb politics in recent times but not on this one IMO. From what I gather ICE is a "FEDERAL" law enforcement agency, hence Newsom may as well cede Russia to China and it will be of the same significance. As for obscure identity - really?? Come on Wombat you are not stupid. Kirk had security team and I guess he was not a poor guy, how much did it help him? The only reason people want ICE agent to not wear masks is so they can dox them and threat them and their families. Why else would you want to see their faces? If your job involves dragging people off the street into unmarked vans and those people can’t subsequently be found then maybe it’s not the worst idea that people can see your face. So you think their superiors dont know who they are? That if served judge warrant they wont reveal their identity to a judge/ appropriate law enforcement? Like I said, the only reason "people" would want to see their faces, is so they can threaten them/their families. I think some of these "people" might have another reason: https://ca.news.yahoo.com/multiple-men-impersonated-ice-agents-180020680.htmlHouse Democrats are urging the Department of Homeland Security to mandate that immigration officials clearly identify themselves when conducting arrests. The demand comes in the wake of multiple reports of men impersonating Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents to kidnap and assault women.
The Democratic Women’s Caucus demanded action in a Monday letter sent to DHS Secretary Kristi Noem and other Trump administration officials. The letter, signed by 33 DWC members and shared exclusively with HuffPost, urges ICE agents to “visibly and clearly identify themselves when conducting immigration enforcement activities to stop enabling impersonators who leverage women’s uncertainty and fear of immigration consequences to rape, harass, and abuse them.” Its almost as if when you put on a balaclava and try to load someone into the back of a van, there is absolutely no difference between you and a criminal rapist. Yeah thats horrible. However it were not ICE agents who did it? In what way ICE agents not wearing masks would prevent it?? Because if ICE agents had to clearly identify themselves in a consistent manner across the country it would be much harder to impersonate them. If they had official vans, official gear that they all wear, official government identification etc. Putting a balaclava on, its more like the ICE agents are impersonating criminals than the criminals impersonating ICE agents. The most direct answer to your question is that if ICE agents weren't wearing masks, criminals would have to show their faces while kidnapping people, or people wouldn't believe so easily that they are ICE agents. Kidnappers and rapists don't want to show their faces in public, partly for the exact same reasons ICE agents don't.
"The most direct answer to your question is that if ICE agents weren't wearing masks, criminals would have to show their faces while kidnapping people"
Like, really?
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On September 22 2025 16:02 maybenexttime wrote:
Wasn't Kamala focusing on all the right things in her campaign? She still lost.
Her message was not really audible. 4 years as VP of Biden and actually being a black woman was never gonna fly. But objectively she did a much better campaign than Clinton.
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United Kingdom10005 Posts
On September 22 2025 18:32 Razyda wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2025 18:22 Jockmcplop wrote:On September 22 2025 18:17 Razyda wrote:On September 22 2025 18:12 Jockmcplop wrote:On September 22 2025 17:42 Razyda wrote:On September 22 2025 09:29 WombaT wrote:
ICE are not operating under those conditions. They are meant to enforce the law of the land, in a nation that doesn’t have an active terrorist campaign operating.
Tell it to Charlie Kirk kids, people whose Teslas were burned, business owners whose shops were burned. On September 22 2025 10:59 KwarK wrote:On September 22 2025 07:29 Razyda wrote:On September 22 2025 07:15 WombaT wrote:On September 22 2025 06:57 Razyda wrote:On September 21 2025 09:08 WombaT wrote:
[quote]
That’s a good move. Smart politics if I dare say.
It’s not going to be popular amongst the ‘no humans are illegal’ or ‘I hate foreigners’ crowd, but realistically nothing Gavin Newsom is likely to do is going to appeal to either of those.
He’s not giving illegal immigrants a free pass, which like it or not is obviously a big issue for many.
I’d assume the average, middle of the road person is pro deporting illegal migrants, but not some of the processes we’ve seen lately.
Anyone arguing against what Newsom’s bringing in has to make the argument that ICE need to be able to pick up people without warrants, and obscure their identity
Outside of MAGA land, I don’t think that’s a winning argument, unless the US is even more fucked than I think it is.
I mean I can see an argument for ICE agents obscuring themselves if they’re part of a raid on like a genuinely big, dangerous drug racket or something, but not for random immigration sweeps. Oh ffs. In other and even more breaking news I signed the bill making California Polish colony... What’s wrong with that? Newsom hasn’t declared anything like sanctuary cities or anything like that. Hasn’t said illegal migrants have any kind of immunity from deportation, simply: 1. ICE can’t just hang around in various locales and scoop up non-white folks and sort their status after the fact. They need to do the paperwork and get warrants. 2. ICE can’t obscure their identity Throw a bone to some who are concerned with how ICE is operating, for others who are concerned with illegal immigration, he’s also not ruling out enforcement. People who oppose this move have to make the argument that ICE don’t need warrants or probable cause to operate, and also should be allowed to obscure their identity. Which isn’t a winning argument for all but the further reaches of the right. Who aren’t going to vote for Newsom anyway, even if Jesus decided to pop back and endorse him. I think it’s pretty smart politics from him. I think he’s also engaged in some dumb politics in recent times but not on this one IMO. From what I gather ICE is a "FEDERAL" law enforcement agency, hence Newsom may as well cede Russia to China and it will be of the same significance. As for obscure identity - really?? Come on Wombat you are not stupid. Kirk had security team and I guess he was not a poor guy, how much did it help him? The only reason people want ICE agent to not wear masks is so they can dox them and threat them and their families. Why else would you want to see their faces? If your job involves dragging people off the street into unmarked vans and those people can’t subsequently be found then maybe it’s not the worst idea that people can see your face. So you think their superiors dont know who they are? That if served judge warrant they wont reveal their identity to a judge/ appropriate law enforcement? Like I said, the only reason "people" would want to see their faces, is so they can threaten them/their families. I think some of these "people" might have another reason: https://ca.news.yahoo.com/multiple-men-impersonated-ice-agents-180020680.htmlHouse Democrats are urging the Department of Homeland Security to mandate that immigration officials clearly identify themselves when conducting arrests. The demand comes in the wake of multiple reports of men impersonating Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents to kidnap and assault women.
The Democratic Women’s Caucus demanded action in a Monday letter sent to DHS Secretary Kristi Noem and other Trump administration officials. The letter, signed by 33 DWC members and shared exclusively with HuffPost, urges ICE agents to “visibly and clearly identify themselves when conducting immigration enforcement activities to stop enabling impersonators who leverage women’s uncertainty and fear of immigration consequences to rape, harass, and abuse them.” Its almost as if when you put on a balaclava and try to load someone into the back of a van, there is absolutely no difference between you and a criminal rapist. Yeah thats horrible. However it were not ICE agents who did it? In what way ICE agents not wearing masks would prevent it?? Because if ICE agents had to clearly identify themselves in a consistent manner across the country it would be much harder to impersonate them. If they had official vans, official gear that they all wear, official government identification etc. Putting a balaclava on, its more like the ICE agents are impersonating criminals than the criminals impersonating ICE agents. The most direct answer to your question is that if ICE agents weren't wearing masks, criminals would have to show their faces while kidnapping people, or people wouldn't believe so easily that they are ICE agents. Kidnappers and rapists don't want to show their faces in public, partly for the exact same reasons ICE agents don't. "The most direct answer to your question is that if ICE agents weren't wearing masks, criminals would have to show their faces while kidnapping people" Like, really?
If they wanted to impersonate an ICE agent, yes.
Otherwise you could look through your door, and say
"Hey these guys don't look like ICE agents, they are wearing masks, they are lying"
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On September 22 2025 18:32 Razyda wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2025 18:22 Jockmcplop wrote:On September 22 2025 18:17 Razyda wrote:On September 22 2025 18:12 Jockmcplop wrote:On September 22 2025 17:42 Razyda wrote:On September 22 2025 09:29 WombaT wrote:
ICE are not operating under those conditions. They are meant to enforce the law of the land, in a nation that doesn’t have an active terrorist campaign operating.
Tell it to Charlie Kirk kids, people whose Teslas were burned, business owners whose shops were burned. On September 22 2025 10:59 KwarK wrote:On September 22 2025 07:29 Razyda wrote:On September 22 2025 07:15 WombaT wrote:On September 22 2025 06:57 Razyda wrote:On September 21 2025 09:08 WombaT wrote:
[quote]
That’s a good move. Smart politics if I dare say.
It’s not going to be popular amongst the ‘no humans are illegal’ or ‘I hate foreigners’ crowd, but realistically nothing Gavin Newsom is likely to do is going to appeal to either of those.
He’s not giving illegal immigrants a free pass, which like it or not is obviously a big issue for many.
I’d assume the average, middle of the road person is pro deporting illegal migrants, but not some of the processes we’ve seen lately.
Anyone arguing against what Newsom’s bringing in has to make the argument that ICE need to be able to pick up people without warrants, and obscure their identity
Outside of MAGA land, I don’t think that’s a winning argument, unless the US is even more fucked than I think it is.
I mean I can see an argument for ICE agents obscuring themselves if they’re part of a raid on like a genuinely big, dangerous drug racket or something, but not for random immigration sweeps. Oh ffs. In other and even more breaking news I signed the bill making California Polish colony... What’s wrong with that? Newsom hasn’t declared anything like sanctuary cities or anything like that. Hasn’t said illegal migrants have any kind of immunity from deportation, simply: 1. ICE can’t just hang around in various locales and scoop up non-white folks and sort their status after the fact. They need to do the paperwork and get warrants. 2. ICE can’t obscure their identity Throw a bone to some who are concerned with how ICE is operating, for others who are concerned with illegal immigration, he’s also not ruling out enforcement. People who oppose this move have to make the argument that ICE don’t need warrants or probable cause to operate, and also should be allowed to obscure their identity. Which isn’t a winning argument for all but the further reaches of the right. Who aren’t going to vote for Newsom anyway, even if Jesus decided to pop back and endorse him. I think it’s pretty smart politics from him. I think he’s also engaged in some dumb politics in recent times but not on this one IMO. From what I gather ICE is a "FEDERAL" law enforcement agency, hence Newsom may as well cede Russia to China and it will be of the same significance. As for obscure identity - really?? Come on Wombat you are not stupid. Kirk had security team and I guess he was not a poor guy, how much did it help him? The only reason people want ICE agent to not wear masks is so they can dox them and threat them and their families. Why else would you want to see their faces? If your job involves dragging people off the street into unmarked vans and those people can’t subsequently be found then maybe it’s not the worst idea that people can see your face. So you think their superiors dont know who they are? That if served judge warrant they wont reveal their identity to a judge/ appropriate law enforcement? Like I said, the only reason "people" would want to see their faces, is so they can threaten them/their families. I think some of these "people" might have another reason: https://ca.news.yahoo.com/multiple-men-impersonated-ice-agents-180020680.htmlHouse Democrats are urging the Department of Homeland Security to mandate that immigration officials clearly identify themselves when conducting arrests. The demand comes in the wake of multiple reports of men impersonating Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents to kidnap and assault women.
The Democratic Women’s Caucus demanded action in a Monday letter sent to DHS Secretary Kristi Noem and other Trump administration officials. The letter, signed by 33 DWC members and shared exclusively with HuffPost, urges ICE agents to “visibly and clearly identify themselves when conducting immigration enforcement activities to stop enabling impersonators who leverage women’s uncertainty and fear of immigration consequences to rape, harass, and abuse them.” Its almost as if when you put on a balaclava and try to load someone into the back of a van, there is absolutely no difference between you and a criminal rapist. Yeah thats horrible. However it were not ICE agents who did it? In what way ICE agents not wearing masks would prevent it?? Because if ICE agents had to clearly identify themselves in a consistent manner across the country it would be much harder to impersonate them. If they had official vans, official gear that they all wear, official government identification etc. Putting a balaclava on, its more like the ICE agents are impersonating criminals than the criminals impersonating ICE agents. The most direct answer to your question is that if ICE agents weren't wearing masks, criminals would have to show their faces while kidnapping people, or people wouldn't believe so easily that they are ICE agents. Kidnappers and rapists don't want to show their faces in public, partly for the exact same reasons ICE agents don't. "The most direct answer to your question is that if ICE agents weren't wearing masks, criminals would have to show their faces while kidnapping people" Like, really?
You literally cut the quote mid-sentence. This is one of the most (deliberately) dishonest responses you've ever posted in this thread.
You know what the argument is, and you know it's correct.
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EPT
