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On September 18 2025 20:35 Elroi wrote:
There are so many parallels between this and the George Floyd situation, down to people on the left sarcastically talking about "Saint Kirk" (people on the right often mockingly refer to "Saint George") and the big kerfuffle about the minute of silence in the EU for either the right's or the left's saint.
How many people got fired over saying inane things about George Floyd?
Did one of the late-night hosts get sacked over it?
Was there a slew of firings? Did any politician go online and ask people to report people who aren't valorizing George Floyd to their employers so they get fired?
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On September 18 2025 21:12 Jankisa wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2025 20:35 Elroi wrote:
There are so many parallels between this and the George Floyd situation, down to people on the left sarcastically talking about "Saint Kirk" (people on the right often mockingly refer to "Saint George") and the big kerfuffle about the minute of silence in the EU for either the right's or the left's saint. How many people got fired over saying inane things about George Floyd? Did one of the late-night hosts get sacked over it? Was there a slew of firings? Did any politician go online and ask people to report people who aren't valorizing George Floyd to their employers so they get fired?
Good points. The vast majority of Republican leaders belittled George Floyd after his death, hand-waved his murder, and/or made pro-police comments. On the other hand, the vast majority of Democratic leaders immediately made public statements condemning Charlie Kirk's assassination and political violence aimed in any direction.
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Northern Ireland25674 Posts
On September 18 2025 18:02 Legan wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2025 17:13 EnDeR_ wrote:On September 18 2025 17:01 Legan wrote:On September 18 2025 16:09 Sermokala wrote:
Theres no where you can hide from this, it was one of the things mentioned during the election. It really sucks being proven right. I hope keeping the moral high ground was worth it to people. I hope you get to tell people how hard you voted for Democrats in 2024 for decades to come. I'm sure it will be one of those truly inspiring stories from this time period. It is just unfortunate that there are currently over 75 million people who can tell the same story. The core message from Democrats for the November election was that democracy was at risk if Trump won. The message didn't land. We are where we are, not where we want to be. Democrats can do basically fuck all at this stage, they have no power. Republicans dominate all 3 branches of government at the moment. This constant, "well, what are Democrats doing about this?! They have no plan!?!?!!" is the same losing strategy that landed us with Trump at the helm. So, keep pushing the right-wing agenda that democrats are ineffective and a bunch of losers, I am sure that will not backfire in the mid-terms. Do people still believe that midterms will be fair or even happen? If Democrats can't point out Republican hypocrisy regarding Saint Kirk without being labelled as radical or arrested, how are they going to be visible in the media or win? Is the idea that they will fully bend over but still somehow win on a vague notion of returning to Democracy? The people who want to turn the USA into an authoritarian state are not blind. They will take this opportunity to push as hard as they can. The project 2025 was not just a wishlist. Just because you lost the election, you should not stop fighting for democracy. Sure, the system has another flaw in how little opposition can do in this situation, but oppositions around the world have found their ways when things have gotten bad. I clearly think that the USA is much further on the path to an authoritarian state than most.
This isn’t really correct, at least with Serm, or Ender, or indeed myself. To my understanding.
For myself, it was quite a simple calculation. Fascism is quite bad, and is far harder to dislodge than it is to prevent getting into power in the first place. Once it gets mechanisms of state power behind it, well that’s tricky.
Then on the other hand, the Democrats are not especially effective even when the hand isn’t stacked against them. In addition to that, the US isn’t exactly a hotbed of big, effective political movements, or has a strong bedrock of politically conscious Unions, that can be instrumental structurally in organising
If you lose that election, you’re now playing on hard mode. My friend may be struggling financially, if my advice was ‘start playing the lottery’ I mean, that would fix those problems, but it’s not really good advice if we’re playing the percentages.
As counter-intuitive as this may seem, the shitter you think the Democratic Party is, the more one should have hoped they won. If you’ve zero faith in their ability to roll back a Fascist takeover, then that’s really not a position one should want them to actually be in
Aside from those factors, Trump ain’t getting any younger, and at least so far there doesn’t seem to be another figure who can be that central pivot around which the new American Fascist machine could function.
You win that election and you’ve potentially just outlasted Trump’s human biology, and potentially the battle for his successor is a gigantic, destructive shitshow that fragments that cohort and neuters its abilities to coalesce into something cohesive.
At worst you establish a holding pattern where the Dems do shit all good, but you’ve got extra time to try and drag them too.
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On September 18 2025 21:12 Jankisa wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2025 20:35 Elroi wrote:
There are so many parallels between this and the George Floyd situation, down to people on the left sarcastically talking about "Saint Kirk" (people on the right often mockingly refer to "Saint George") and the big kerfuffle about the minute of silence in the EU for either the right's or the left's saint. How many people got fired over saying inane things about George Floyd? Did one of the late-night hosts get sacked over it? Was there a slew of firings? Did any politician go online and ask people to report people who aren't valorizing George Floyd to their employers so they get fired?
More importantly, did the FCC shakedown FOX News for their hosts disrespecting Floyd and NewsCorp demand they make a donation to a leftwing organization? I'm pretty sure that didn't happen.
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Stop both sidesing, bunch of toddlers. It's not working. Because they can just out their fingers in their ears and yell lalala.
Are you just soothing yourselves like this? Cradling in the fetal position whimpering that they did the same or worse? Come on.
Dems/Left fields needs new strats. Either the continuation of the cultural arms race continues or some kind of unification mechanism can be found. Personally I think the Western model of democracy has failed because we've landed in such a confortable spot we're not willing to compromise our positions any longer. If EU isn't careful the same will happen to us. Maybe not, but the new grip of the right since the Syrian refugee crisis isn't getting looser it seems.
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I've said many times it's useless to accuse the right of hypocrisy, because they love the idea of a hierarchical world where they don't have to be consistent but the people below them do.
There's no point in trying to win their hearts over, only like 1% of them will ever realize they're wrong AND have the humility to admit it. But it is worth pointing out the extreme corruption and asking if that's the kind of world everyone else wants to live in, to wake up apolitical people and moderates from their stupor.
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Conservatives work on the assumption that the worst thing they can think of to do to their opposition, will be done by them "when they are in charge".
But then progressive people don't do it and getting laughed at for being weak.
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Northern Ireland25674 Posts
On September 18 2025 20:35 Elroi wrote:
There are so many parallels between this and the George Floyd situation, down to people on the left sarcastically talking about "Saint Kirk" (people on the right often mockingly refer to "Saint George") and the big kerfuffle about the minute of silence in the EU for either the right's or the left's saint.
I dunno if there are really that many.
‘Saint Floyd’ was the right pulling something out their arse that wasn’t claimed.
Part of the point was that George Floyd wasn’t a saint, but that not being the most upstanding citizen who’s ever lived doesn’t merit death in the fashion he suffered it.
The right are absolutely trying to canonise Kirk, well, some of them anyway. Obviously not everyone.
They have similarities as symbolic lightning rods for wider issues, granted but apart from that?
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The difference is that no EU country has the duopoly of the American political system. There are other parties in the US, but the duopoly worked, together (because Democrats are morons who think that norms will protect them from Republicans) to make sure no other party can ever be relevant.
That is a sin of both Democrats and Republicans. However, that has nothing to do with the current situation. Even if there were other parties and figures such as RFK jr., they get co-opted into the right wing fascist cult of Trump. Fascists don't care about your political affiliations, all they care is loyalty, as long as you are useful to them and your ideas vaguely allign with theirs but more importantly don't clash, you can do whatever is needed.
Democrats, being bought out by Corporations at the leadership level can't allow ideas from more progressive parts of the left political spectrum to be taken seriously, so they have to attack them, or at the very least not endorse them (ie. Mamdani).
In Europe, you can see from the example of France or Netherlands, the fascists can get close to power, but the politics are pluralistic enough that the most extreme movements won't be able to enact their agendas, they will be kept out of power because center right and center left will be happy to incorporate some greens or pirates in order to make sure the whole thing doesn't go to shit.
There is always fear of Israel scenario, where the whole country shifts to the right and the less extreme parts of the political spectrum align with the more extreme and with some external factors stay in power pushing for more extreme policies and escalations, but I believe that EU citizens live prosperous enough lives and there aren't these kind of extreme situations where enough momentum could be gained by the fascists to break through.
Of course, I might be overly optimistic, but I do think we are sort of isolated from this kind of situation.
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On September 18 2025 21:42 KT_Elwood wrote:
Conservatives work on the assumption that the worst thing they can think of to do to their opposition, will be done by them "when they are in charge".
But then progressive people don't do it and getting laughed at for being weak.
They get laughed at for being too weak and they get scolded for being too brazen. This is classic doublethink chokeholding. This is what post modernist conservatism looks like. This is their new superweapon and whild they control all the media narratives we have a chump in the thread here saying (not you who I'm quoting) that we can wake less politicized people up. Lol, lmao even.
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Wonder if someone in this admin will try to strong arm the new american pope into making CK an actual saint. I will laugh so fucking hard if it's proposed.
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the original sin was Democrats failing on a scale breaking level to nail Trump on Jan06 that he was not only able to come out unscathed, but come out ahead and use it against them.
you miss an opportunity like that - all the facts in your favor, the law on your side, thousands of hours of video backing you up, the world as your shocked witness as it was livestreamed - against a career criminal and natural born liar... well, we all know what happened after.
Brazil managed to get Bolsonaro for his coup, eerily similar circumstances. one not only might say they were inspired by the US... because they definitely were FFS.
and this is the response from little Marco running defense for the Don:
Rubio vows US response following conviction of Brazil's Bolsonaro
"The political persecutions by sanctioned human rights abuser Alexandre de Moraes continue, as he and others on Brazil's supreme court have unjustly ruled to imprison former President Jair Bolsonaro," Rubio wrote on X.
"The United States will respond accordingly to this witch hunt," he said.
the gall of these deplorable gravediggers of democracy is sickening.
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On September 18 2025 21:50 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
Wonder if someone in this admin will try to strong arm the new american pope into making CK an actual saint. I will laugh so fucking hard if it's proposed.
I would put money on Trump doing exactly that, if he ever read this suggestion.
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Northern Ireland25674 Posts
On September 18 2025 21:49 Uldridge wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2025 21:42 KT_Elwood wrote:
Conservatives work on the assumption that the worst thing they can think of to do to their opposition, will be done by them "when they are in charge".
But then progressive people don't do it and getting laughed at for being weak. They get laughed at for being too weak and they get scolded for being too brazen. This is classic doublethink chokeholding. This is what post modernist conservatism looks like. This is their new superweapon and whild they control all the media narratives we have a chump in the thread here saying (not you who I'm quoting) that we can wake less politicized people up. Lol, lmao even.
So what’s your prescription? You seem to want to just cynically shoot down everything else attempted, what’s your big idea?
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On September 18 2025 21:50 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
Wonder if someone in this admin will try to strong arm the new american pope into making CK an actual saint. I will laugh so fucking hard if it's proposed.
0% chance of happening. Kirk wasn't Catholic and he didn't offer his life up in defense of the Catholic faith.
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I don't have the brainpower to combat a mentally deranged group of people that deny reality. They stoke the flames while gaslighting at the same time.
This is an abusive relationship and sadly there are no cops around to put the abuser in jail. Two options are the abuser sees some form of enlightenment, or - which is more likely - its antisocial personality disorder spirals so hard it ends up in a fatality and may even somehow have accrued enough credibility or influence around itself that it might get away with it.
The part of the US that's both sidesing it are like the neighbor or a good friend telling the abused that they need to get away from them but they keep saying that it's fine, he's just a bit mad sometimes when I forget to properly attend to my chores.
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On September 18 2025 22:02 Doublemint wrote:the original sin was Democrats failing on a scale breaking level to nail Trump on Jan06 that he was not only able to come out unscathed, but come out ahead and use it against them. you miss an opportunity like that - all the facts in your favor, the law on your side, thousands of hours of video backing you up, the world as your shocked witness as it was livestreamed - against a career criminal and natural born liar... well, we all know what happened after. Brazil managed to get Bolsonaro for his coup, eerily similar circumstances. one not only might say they were inspired by the US... because they definitely were FFS. and this is the response from little Marco running defense for the Don: Rubio vows US response following conviction of Brazil's BolsonaroShow nested quote +"The political persecutions by sanctioned human rights abuser Alexandre de Moraes continue, as he and others on Brazil's supreme court have unjustly ruled to imprison former President Jair Bolsonaro," Rubio wrote on X.
"The United States will respond accordingly to this witch hunt," he said.
the gall of these deplorable gravediggers of democracy is sickening. Part of it is the US justice system being glacial, by design and a judge actively running interference for Trump to further delay the case.
But the DoJ itself can certainly be blamed. It took a year to open an investigation, almost another year to appoint Jack Smith, another year before a grand jury indictment.
But then its 2024 before the case gets going and judge Chutkan delaying proceedings while various courts fight out if Trump could even be charged. By the time that was resolved it was elections.
realistically a Jack Smith should have been appointed Jan 21st 2021, not november '22
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Yeah, but Biden choose Merick Garland as a olive branch to the Republicans while Democratic Inteligencia furiously circlejerked how smart of a move that was because "he was due" after the Obama appointment fiasco while singing his praises.
At every opportunity Biden choose to de-escalate and give Trump and Republicans every possible benefit of the doubt, only for our resident fascist boot lickers to come here to explain how everything that is happening is OK because of how terrible and norm breaking Biden was.
It's nice to have them around just so we can have a live views in to the moral void of their brainwashed minds.
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On September 18 2025 20:35 Elroi wrote:
There are so many parallels between this and the George Floyd situation, down to people on the left sarcastically talking about "Saint Kirk" (people on the right often mockingly refer to "Saint George") and the big kerfuffle about the minute of silence in the EU for either the right's or the left's saint.
Kirk was killed by a lunatic. Everyone condemned the crime.
Floyd was murdered by a police officer in plain sight over 9 agonizing minutes, and the right absolutely shat on him. Which is something that happens regularly to little or no consequences for the officers.
Tell me, what’s the parallel again?
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On September 18 2025 22:55 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2025 20:35 Elroi wrote:
There are so many parallels between this and the George Floyd situation, down to people on the left sarcastically talking about "Saint Kirk" (people on the right often mockingly refer to "Saint George") and the big kerfuffle about the minute of silence in the EU for either the right's or the left's saint. Kirk was killed by a lunatic. Everyone condemned the crime. Floyd was murdered by a police officer in plain sight over 9 agonizing minutes, and the right absolutely shat on him. Which is something that happens regularly to little or no consequences for the officers. Tell me, what’s the parallel again?
There would be a real parallel if the left was going around saying "Are we sure Kirk was killed by a lunatic? Maybe he died of a fentanyl overdose before he was shot."
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EPT
