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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
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On July 05 2025 03:17 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2025 22:18 EnDeR_ wrote:On July 04 2025 06:56 Magic Powers wrote:Deportations Are Starting to Trend Higher
Trump told TIME last year he wanted to target 15 million people for removal. He said he was open to using the military to do it, in the face of restrictions in the Posse Comitatus Act that limits the use of the military on U.S. soil. In a campaign interview with ABC News in August, J.D. Vance said, “Let’s start with 1 million.”
At the end of April, the Administration said it had deported more than 139,000 migrants, which was behind pace to reach their aggressive targets. That is a reflection of just how time-consuming and challenging it is to find and remove people living in communities. On Tuesday, the Department of Homeland Security provided TIME with updated figures from Assistant Secretary Tricia McLaughlin: more than 207,000 deported. That represents a significant increase in the Administration's deportations and may reflect the more sweeping and intrusive actions immigration officials have taken in recent weeks. For context, the federal government deported 271,484 people in the 2024 fiscal year, which ended on Sept. 30.
https://time.com/7292939/trump-deportations-ice-arrests/ From that quote, assuming that the number in mid-June from Assistant Secretary Tricia McLaughlin is accurate and that it captures deportations from 30 Sept 2024 to 15 June 2025, Biden's deportation rate in 2024 was 22623/month, Trump's is 24352/month. Which, even if taken at face value, is honestly not that different and underwhelming (if you're a Trump fan). Wasn't BJ's point that you should probably not take numbers originating from the department at face value, though? Trump assumed office on January 20th this year, so that's where the counting starts, not in September of 2024, and the counting ends "on Tuesday" (I assume that's June 10th since the article was updated on June 11th which was a Wednesday). That makes it a reported 207 000 deportations over 140 days, which is nearly 45 000 deportations per month. That would be around double of Biden's 2024 deportation rate. Furthermore, under Biden the removals were over 90% connected to people with a criminal record. The remaining deportations were not removals. Under Trump however, removals are far more indiscriminatory. He removes a lot more people with no criminal record, which is a key reason why total deportations are so high since he assumed office.
It's honestly the same to me, I don't have a horse in this race. You are making an assumption though that the data refers only to the time that Trump was officially president, it doesn't actually specify in the article. To be perfectly honest, I didn't think this was a particularly good source.
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On July 04 2025 22:18 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2025 22:08 EnDeR_ wrote:On July 04 2025 20:27 Excludos wrote:On July 04 2025 07:14 WombaT wrote:On July 04 2025 07:06 Billyboy wrote:
DJT has not hit on most of his big talking points from the election, other than immigration. Ukraine war did not stop day one, Israel and Hamas still fighting, Cost of living is up, No manufacturing has run back to the US, has decreased Health care and social security.
He's sucking on everything not culture war related, but that is strangely what is most important to many/most of his supporters. He’s doing fine, he’s doing the things his base supports. They’re not actual solutions to the problems, but he is doing many of his solutions he said he would try. Other ruling parties could learn from him in this, and solely this domain. Are you joking me? This isn't fourth grade. Results matter. Trump throwing temper tantrums that alienates every US ally and strengthens the opposition isn't "trying and failing, but at least he tried", it's pure incompetence. If I show up tomorrow at work and completely undermine my company, throw everyone under the bus, sell company secrets, and achieve none of the goals that I am supposed to achieve, management wouldn't be going "oh well, at least he tried", I'd be be fired. Edit: Maybe I misunderstood the comment. If you mean people could learn from Trump - as in learn how to lie and announce failures as achievements, I would say I don't want to particularly live in a world where that is the most effective way to govern Wombat's point (which is similar to my own, as far as I can tell) is that Trump said he would do a thing, and he is now doing the thing that he said he would do.You're asking a different question: "is he achieving his objectives successfully"? Wombat's later point is that he would very much like it if politicians had a better hit ratio in doing the things they said they would do when they were trying to get elected and the things they actually do once they're in government. The way I see it, for most policies I support, whenever the person gets in government, there is always something that prevents said policy from being implemented or gets watered down to the point it's not really the same thing any more. I wouldn't mind if we tried something (that I support) even if it goes against established dogma. If we look at both of Trump's terms combined, I'd say he's had mixed results. There are definitely things he's accomplished as promised (dialing back women's rights, removing healthcare, attacking immigrants, etc.), and there are definitely platforms he ran on but never significantly addressed (building a wall, imprisoning Hillary Clinton, making the best deals, making us respected around the world, etc.). To be fair though, all presidents have had mixed results, and I wouldn't be surprised if his supporters had the general consensus that he's mostly doing what he said he would, and that any shortcomings are probably due to other politicians getting in his way (Obama, Biden, Harris, Congressional Democrats, Congressional non-MAGA Republicans, etc.). MAGA is probably pretty happy with Trump overall.
Trump's first term is very different from his second term. The first time around, he faced a lot of pushback from the system. That has certainly changed this time around.
And, again, I'm not talking about results. He is definitely not achieving those. But more about taking the specific actions he said he would take on the campaign trail.
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On July 05 2025 05:01 Mohdoo wrote:
The last few pages have been very strange. It is like there are many different numbers of deportations available. Even for the same period of time. How is this possible? If you guys can’t agree on the same basic measurements of deportation, any subsequent conversation is meaningless because you aren’t even assuming the same information.
We're American, so we refuse to use the metric system.
I'm not sure if we should measure our immigrants in gallons or miles though. Perhaps acres?
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On July 05 2025 05:44 EnDeR_ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2025 03:17 Magic Powers wrote:On July 04 2025 22:18 EnDeR_ wrote:On July 04 2025 06:56 Magic Powers wrote:Deportations Are Starting to Trend Higher
Trump told TIME last year he wanted to target 15 million people for removal. He said he was open to using the military to do it, in the face of restrictions in the Posse Comitatus Act that limits the use of the military on U.S. soil. In a campaign interview with ABC News in August, J.D. Vance said, “Let’s start with 1 million.”
At the end of April, the Administration said it had deported more than 139,000 migrants, which was behind pace to reach their aggressive targets. That is a reflection of just how time-consuming and challenging it is to find and remove people living in communities. On Tuesday, the Department of Homeland Security provided TIME with updated figures from Assistant Secretary Tricia McLaughlin: more than 207,000 deported. That represents a significant increase in the Administration's deportations and may reflect the more sweeping and intrusive actions immigration officials have taken in recent weeks. For context, the federal government deported 271,484 people in the 2024 fiscal year, which ended on Sept. 30.
https://time.com/7292939/trump-deportations-ice-arrests/ From that quote, assuming that the number in mid-June from Assistant Secretary Tricia McLaughlin is accurate and that it captures deportations from 30 Sept 2024 to 15 June 2025, Biden's deportation rate in 2024 was 22623/month, Trump's is 24352/month. Which, even if taken at face value, is honestly not that different and underwhelming (if you're a Trump fan). Wasn't BJ's point that you should probably not take numbers originating from the department at face value, though? Trump assumed office on January 20th this year, so that's where the counting starts, not in September of 2024, and the counting ends "on Tuesday" (I assume that's June 10th since the article was updated on June 11th which was a Wednesday). That makes it a reported 207 000 deportations over 140 days, which is nearly 45 000 deportations per month. That would be around double of Biden's 2024 deportation rate. Furthermore, under Biden the removals were over 90% connected to people with a criminal record. The remaining deportations were not removals. Under Trump however, removals are far more indiscriminatory. He removes a lot more people with no criminal record, which is a key reason why total deportations are so high since he assumed office. It's honestly the same to me, I don't have a horse in this race. You are making an assumption though that the data refers only to the time that Trump was officially president, it doesn't actually specify in the article. To be perfectly honest, I didn't think this was a particularly good source.
Of course I made that assumption. Why would the time frame include Biden's last few months as president? That would be pants on fire levels of misinformation by the Department of Homeland Security, which provided the numbers. Unless their data was deliberately misrepresented by Tricia McLaughlin.
Sure, you can make that argument. I think that's not as likely, but also plausible considering the lies and incompetence of Trump's administration.
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On July 05 2025 06:47 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2025 05:01 Mohdoo wrote:
The last few pages have been very strange. It is like there are many different numbers of deportations available. Even for the same period of time. How is this possible? If you guys can’t agree on the same basic measurements of deportation, any subsequent conversation is meaningless because you aren’t even assuming the same information. We're American, so we refuse to use the metric system. I'm not sure if we should measure our immigrants in gallons or miles though. Perhaps acres?
Trump would say tacos, the obvious metric for all South Americans.
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God we are so fucked.
Seriously considering leveraging my Belgian citizenship and getting out of this dumpster fire.
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On July 05 2025 11:52 decafchicken wrote:
God we are so fucked.
Seriously considering leveraging my Belgian citizenship and getting out of this dumpster fire.
Indeed:
"The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimates the bill will increase the budget deficit by $2.8 trillion by 2034 and cause 10.9 million Americans to lose health insurance coverage. The cuts to Medicaid are the largest in the program's history, with experts arguing that the bill would create the largest upward transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich in American history. Several think tanks, experts, and opponents have criticized the bill over its regressive tax structure and described many of its policies as gimmicks. According to multiple polls, a majority of Americans oppose the bill. ... The defense portion of the bill would allocate an additional $150 billion in defense spending. ... The bill increases the funding for ICE from $10 billion to more than $100 billion by 2029, making it the single most heavily funded law enforcement agency in the federal government." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Big_Beautiful_Bill_Act
And so much more x.x
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On July 05 2025 12:12 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2025 11:52 decafchicken wrote:
God we are so fucked.
Seriously considering leveraging my Belgian citizenship and getting out of this dumpster fire. Indeed: "The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimates the bill will increase the budget deficit by $2.8 trillion by 2034 and cause 10.9 million Americans to lose health insurance coverage. The cuts to Medicaid are the largest in the program's history, with experts arguing that the bill would create the largest upward transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich in American history. Several think tanks, experts, and opponents have criticized the bill over its regressive tax structure and described many of its policies as gimmicks. According to multiple polls, a majority of Americans oppose the bill. ... The defense portion of the bill would allocate an additional $150 billion in defense spending. ... The bill increases the funding for ICE from $10 billion to more than $100 billion by 2029, making it the single most heavily funded law enforcement agency in the federal government." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Big_Beautiful_Bill_Act And so much more x.x
I'm sure they'll deport all the poors before people get hit by the wealth transfer. 4D chess. Trust me bro.
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And all the sneaky shit they threw in there consolidating more power to the executive branch 😔
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On July 05 2025 07:29 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2025 05:44 EnDeR_ wrote:On July 05 2025 03:17 Magic Powers wrote:On July 04 2025 22:18 EnDeR_ wrote:On July 04 2025 06:56 Magic Powers wrote:Deportations Are Starting to Trend Higher
Trump told TIME last year he wanted to target 15 million people for removal. He said he was open to using the military to do it, in the face of restrictions in the Posse Comitatus Act that limits the use of the military on U.S. soil. In a campaign interview with ABC News in August, J.D. Vance said, “Let’s start with 1 million.”
At the end of April, the Administration said it had deported more than 139,000 migrants, which was behind pace to reach their aggressive targets. That is a reflection of just how time-consuming and challenging it is to find and remove people living in communities. On Tuesday, the Department of Homeland Security provided TIME with updated figures from Assistant Secretary Tricia McLaughlin: more than 207,000 deported. That represents a significant increase in the Administration's deportations and may reflect the more sweeping and intrusive actions immigration officials have taken in recent weeks. For context, the federal government deported 271,484 people in the 2024 fiscal year, which ended on Sept. 30.
https://time.com/7292939/trump-deportations-ice-arrests/ From that quote, assuming that the number in mid-June from Assistant Secretary Tricia McLaughlin is accurate and that it captures deportations from 30 Sept 2024 to 15 June 2025, Biden's deportation rate in 2024 was 22623/month, Trump's is 24352/month. Which, even if taken at face value, is honestly not that different and underwhelming (if you're a Trump fan). Wasn't BJ's point that you should probably not take numbers originating from the department at face value, though? Trump assumed office on January 20th this year, so that's where the counting starts, not in September of 2024, and the counting ends "on Tuesday" (I assume that's June 10th since the article was updated on June 11th which was a Wednesday). That makes it a reported 207 000 deportations over 140 days, which is nearly 45 000 deportations per month. That would be around double of Biden's 2024 deportation rate. Furthermore, under Biden the removals were over 90% connected to people with a criminal record. The remaining deportations were not removals. Under Trump however, removals are far more indiscriminatory. He removes a lot more people with no criminal record, which is a key reason why total deportations are so high since he assumed office. It's honestly the same to me, I don't have a horse in this race. You are making an assumption though that the data refers only to the time that Trump was officially president, it doesn't actually specify in the article. To be perfectly honest, I didn't think this was a particularly good source. Of course I made that assumption. Why would the time frame include Biden's last few months as president? That would be pants on fire levels of misinformation by the Department of Homeland Security, which provided the numbers. Unless their data was deliberately misrepresented by Tricia McLaughlin. Sure, you can make that argument. I think that's not as likely, but also plausible considering the lies and incompetence of Trump's administration.
If I'm talking with an academic and they're talking about "this year's student intake" they actually meant the students enrolled in 2024.
If they count deportations within financial years (which seems to be implied by the Biden line) it is perfectly reasonable to refer to "this year so far" to include all deportations within that financial year. It would also make their number look bigger, so why wouldn't they?
The source is not great because it's mostly commentary, the data isn't shown, and it is not clear to what it refers to.
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On July 05 2025 00:44 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2025 00:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On July 04 2025 23:55 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 04 2025 01:28 Jankisa wrote:OK, so, apparently there are flavors to controlled opposition definition, which one would you say the Democrats are? For GH but for others as well: Poll: Controlled opposition?You must be logged in to vote in this poll. ☐ Systematic Opposition (permitted and controlled by the ruling party)
☐ Loyal Opposition (fight for their candidates but no real resistance to the controling party agenda)
☐ Placeholder Opposition (unctions as a placeholder for opposition without any real power or ability)
☐ Co-opted or Weakened Opposition (deliberately weakened or co-opted by the ruling powers)
☐ One party state minor party (under the control of the dominant party)
☐ Not contolled opposition
I'd say either they aren't or they are on their way to be come Co-opted or Weakened Opposition, basically they are on their way of being in a China or Russia type "democracy". I'm surprised almost half of responders identified Democrats as some form of controlled opposition. Personally I guess I would describe the "two parties" more as a "factions of a one (capitalist) party state" We could certainly relabel everyone however we want. For example, some people might say that socialists and capitalists are two groups with differing economic philosophies, but one could also describe those "two groups" more as "factions of one overarching (human) species". The semantics is just based on the points we want to make, even though socialists and capitalists do have some key differences (as do Democrats and Republicans). That would be reasonable if we were juxtaposing humans with another comparable species, like an intelligent alien race that doesn't recognizably organize itself as either capitalist or socialist. As in "capitalists and socialists are factions of humans juxtaposed with the proglactians and flurglesmors which are factions of the staxo species". The point is that capital/capitalism/capitalists is/are the single ruling party that both factions serve at the pleasure of. Show nested quote +On July 05 2025 00:35 Gahlo wrote:On July 04 2025 23:55 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 04 2025 01:28 Jankisa wrote:OK, so, apparently there are flavors to controlled opposition definition, which one would you say the Democrats are? For GH but for others as well: Poll: Controlled opposition?You must be logged in to vote in this poll. ☐ Systematic Opposition (permitted and controlled by the ruling party)
☐ Loyal Opposition (fight for their candidates but no real resistance to the controling party agenda)
☐ Placeholder Opposition (unctions as a placeholder for opposition without any real power or ability)
☐ Co-opted or Weakened Opposition (deliberately weakened or co-opted by the ruling powers)
☐ One party state minor party (under the control of the dominant party)
☐ Not contolled opposition
I'd say either they aren't or they are on their way to be come Co-opted or Weakened Opposition, basically they are on their way of being in a China or Russia type "democracy". I'm surprised almost half of responders identified Democrats as some form of controlled opposition. Personally I guess I would describe the "two parties" more as a "factions of a one (capitalist) party state" Then why didn't you make that an option? I didn't make the poll?
Well don't I look like a silly bitch. lol
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On July 05 2025 15:52 EnDeR_ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2025 07:29 Magic Powers wrote:On July 05 2025 05:44 EnDeR_ wrote:On July 05 2025 03:17 Magic Powers wrote:On July 04 2025 22:18 EnDeR_ wrote:On July 04 2025 06:56 Magic Powers wrote:Deportations Are Starting to Trend Higher
Trump told TIME last year he wanted to target 15 million people for removal. He said he was open to using the military to do it, in the face of restrictions in the Posse Comitatus Act that limits the use of the military on U.S. soil. In a campaign interview with ABC News in August, J.D. Vance said, “Let’s start with 1 million.”
At the end of April, the Administration said it had deported more than 139,000 migrants, which was behind pace to reach their aggressive targets. That is a reflection of just how time-consuming and challenging it is to find and remove people living in communities. On Tuesday, the Department of Homeland Security provided TIME with updated figures from Assistant Secretary Tricia McLaughlin: more than 207,000 deported. That represents a significant increase in the Administration's deportations and may reflect the more sweeping and intrusive actions immigration officials have taken in recent weeks. For context, the federal government deported 271,484 people in the 2024 fiscal year, which ended on Sept. 30.
https://time.com/7292939/trump-deportations-ice-arrests/ From that quote, assuming that the number in mid-June from Assistant Secretary Tricia McLaughlin is accurate and that it captures deportations from 30 Sept 2024 to 15 June 2025, Biden's deportation rate in 2024 was 22623/month, Trump's is 24352/month. Which, even if taken at face value, is honestly not that different and underwhelming (if you're a Trump fan). Wasn't BJ's point that you should probably not take numbers originating from the department at face value, though? Trump assumed office on January 20th this year, so that's where the counting starts, not in September of 2024, and the counting ends "on Tuesday" (I assume that's June 10th since the article was updated on June 11th which was a Wednesday). That makes it a reported 207 000 deportations over 140 days, which is nearly 45 000 deportations per month. That would be around double of Biden's 2024 deportation rate. Furthermore, under Biden the removals were over 90% connected to people with a criminal record. The remaining deportations were not removals. Under Trump however, removals are far more indiscriminatory. He removes a lot more people with no criminal record, which is a key reason why total deportations are so high since he assumed office. It's honestly the same to me, I don't have a horse in this race. You are making an assumption though that the data refers only to the time that Trump was officially president, it doesn't actually specify in the article. To be perfectly honest, I didn't think this was a particularly good source. Of course I made that assumption. Why would the time frame include Biden's last few months as president? That would be pants on fire levels of misinformation by the Department of Homeland Security, which provided the numbers. Unless their data was deliberately misrepresented by Tricia McLaughlin. Sure, you can make that argument. I think that's not as likely, but also plausible considering the lies and incompetence of Trump's administration. If I'm talking with an academic and they're talking about "this year's student intake" they actually meant the students enrolled in 2024. If they count deportations within financial years (which seems to be implied by the Biden line) it is perfectly reasonable to refer to "this year so far" to include all deportations within that financial year. It would also make their number look bigger, so why wouldn't they? The source is not great because it's mostly commentary, the data isn't shown, and it is not clear to what it refers to.
Alright, I'll just provide another source. PolitiFact has a left-center bias with high factuality. Should be good enough.
As of April 29, the Department of Homeland Security said there have been more than 142,000 deportations since Trump started his second term, but has not released a detailed breakdown.
https://api.politifact.com/article/2025/apr/30/trump-immigration-injunctions-deportations
142 000 reported deportations between January 20 and April 29. That would equate to 518 300 deportations during Trump's first year in office.
Again, you can say Trump's administration generally spreads lies. Fine, make that argument if you want. But either they're lying or they're being truthful. If they're lying, then add that to the list of reasons why Trump supporters are mad fools. If they're telling the truth, then Americans need to buckle up as this term is gonna be a hell of a bumpy ride.
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ahh. from time to time i pass by this thread and it right away reminds me of the beautiful path humanity is on. Just awesome. and the most beautiful part of it all: we wouldn't have to.
in a few decades or so human society is either in a really, really good place or all of us are royally fucked...
cheers 
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A minor party in a "One party state" fits the definition of "One capitalism party with two factions within it", with the minor party being the one which is currently not in power and them taking turns being the de-facto ruling party.
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I've seen multiple stories like this and at the risk of overestimating these people, it does seem pragmatic to make such statements. The MAGAs tend to make a gofundme for these cases, and on some level the family hopes someone up the chain sees the story and intervenes due to their loyalty. Whereas if they turn on Trump that's it, they're on their own.
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On July 05 2025 18:08 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2025 15:52 EnDeR_ wrote:On July 05 2025 07:29 Magic Powers wrote:On July 05 2025 05:44 EnDeR_ wrote:On July 05 2025 03:17 Magic Powers wrote:On July 04 2025 22:18 EnDeR_ wrote:On July 04 2025 06:56 Magic Powers wrote:Deportations Are Starting to Trend Higher
Trump told TIME last year he wanted to target 15 million people for removal. He said he was open to using the military to do it, in the face of restrictions in the Posse Comitatus Act that limits the use of the military on U.S. soil. In a campaign interview with ABC News in August, J.D. Vance said, “Let’s start with 1 million.”
At the end of April, the Administration said it had deported more than 139,000 migrants, which was behind pace to reach their aggressive targets. That is a reflection of just how time-consuming and challenging it is to find and remove people living in communities. On Tuesday, the Department of Homeland Security provided TIME with updated figures from Assistant Secretary Tricia McLaughlin: more than 207,000 deported. That represents a significant increase in the Administration's deportations and may reflect the more sweeping and intrusive actions immigration officials have taken in recent weeks. For context, the federal government deported 271,484 people in the 2024 fiscal year, which ended on Sept. 30.
https://time.com/7292939/trump-deportations-ice-arrests/ From that quote, assuming that the number in mid-June from Assistant Secretary Tricia McLaughlin is accurate and that it captures deportations from 30 Sept 2024 to 15 June 2025, Biden's deportation rate in 2024 was 22623/month, Trump's is 24352/month. Which, even if taken at face value, is honestly not that different and underwhelming (if you're a Trump fan). Wasn't BJ's point that you should probably not take numbers originating from the department at face value, though? Trump assumed office on January 20th this year, so that's where the counting starts, not in September of 2024, and the counting ends "on Tuesday" (I assume that's June 10th since the article was updated on June 11th which was a Wednesday). That makes it a reported 207 000 deportations over 140 days, which is nearly 45 000 deportations per month. That would be around double of Biden's 2024 deportation rate. Furthermore, under Biden the removals were over 90% connected to people with a criminal record. The remaining deportations were not removals. Under Trump however, removals are far more indiscriminatory. He removes a lot more people with no criminal record, which is a key reason why total deportations are so high since he assumed office. It's honestly the same to me, I don't have a horse in this race. You are making an assumption though that the data refers only to the time that Trump was officially president, it doesn't actually specify in the article. To be perfectly honest, I didn't think this was a particularly good source. Of course I made that assumption. Why would the time frame include Biden's last few months as president? That would be pants on fire levels of misinformation by the Department of Homeland Security, which provided the numbers. Unless their data was deliberately misrepresented by Tricia McLaughlin. Sure, you can make that argument. I think that's not as likely, but also plausible considering the lies and incompetence of Trump's administration. If I'm talking with an academic and they're talking about "this year's student intake" they actually meant the students enrolled in 2024. If they count deportations within financial years (which seems to be implied by the Biden line) it is perfectly reasonable to refer to "this year so far" to include all deportations within that financial year. It would also make their number look bigger, so why wouldn't they? The source is not great because it's mostly commentary, the data isn't shown, and it is not clear to what it refers to. Alright, I'll just provide another source. PolitiFact has a left-center bias with high factuality. Should be good enough. Show nested quote +As of April 29, the Department of Homeland Security said there have been more than 142,000 deportations since Trump started his second term, but has not released a detailed breakdown. https://api.politifact.com/article/2025/apr/30/trump-immigration-injunctions-deportations142 000 reported deportations between January 20 and April 29. That would equate to 518 300 deportations during Trump's first year in office. Again, you can say Trump's administration generally spreads lies. Fine, make that argument if you want. But either they're lying or they're being truthful. If they're lying, then add that to the list of reasons why Trump supporters are mad fools. If they're telling the truth, then Americans need to buckle up as this term is gonna be a hell of a bumpy ride.
I am not arguing for or against anything, just to be clear.
I had a look at the source. It's about something else "Has Trump faced more deportation-related court injunctions than his predecessors?" The article isn't about deportation numbers, and was a bit of a turd to read, to be honest. It again quotes a random number given by someone at the department without providing further context about the data.
I normally tell my students to cite primary sources, because otherwise you just have no idea what you're quoting. The same applies here.
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On July 05 2025 20:59 EnDeR_ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2025 18:08 Magic Powers wrote:On July 05 2025 15:52 EnDeR_ wrote:On July 05 2025 07:29 Magic Powers wrote:On July 05 2025 05:44 EnDeR_ wrote:On July 05 2025 03:17 Magic Powers wrote:On July 04 2025 22:18 EnDeR_ wrote:On July 04 2025 06:56 Magic Powers wrote:Deportations Are Starting to Trend Higher
Trump told TIME last year he wanted to target 15 million people for removal. He said he was open to using the military to do it, in the face of restrictions in the Posse Comitatus Act that limits the use of the military on U.S. soil. In a campaign interview with ABC News in August, J.D. Vance said, “Let’s start with 1 million.”
At the end of April, the Administration said it had deported more than 139,000 migrants, which was behind pace to reach their aggressive targets. That is a reflection of just how time-consuming and challenging it is to find and remove people living in communities. On Tuesday, the Department of Homeland Security provided TIME with updated figures from Assistant Secretary Tricia McLaughlin: more than 207,000 deported. That represents a significant increase in the Administration's deportations and may reflect the more sweeping and intrusive actions immigration officials have taken in recent weeks. For context, the federal government deported 271,484 people in the 2024 fiscal year, which ended on Sept. 30.
https://time.com/7292939/trump-deportations-ice-arrests/ From that quote, assuming that the number in mid-June from Assistant Secretary Tricia McLaughlin is accurate and that it captures deportations from 30 Sept 2024 to 15 June 2025, Biden's deportation rate in 2024 was 22623/month, Trump's is 24352/month. Which, even if taken at face value, is honestly not that different and underwhelming (if you're a Trump fan). Wasn't BJ's point that you should probably not take numbers originating from the department at face value, though? Trump assumed office on January 20th this year, so that's where the counting starts, not in September of 2024, and the counting ends "on Tuesday" (I assume that's June 10th since the article was updated on June 11th which was a Wednesday). That makes it a reported 207 000 deportations over 140 days, which is nearly 45 000 deportations per month. That would be around double of Biden's 2024 deportation rate. Furthermore, under Biden the removals were over 90% connected to people with a criminal record. The remaining deportations were not removals. Under Trump however, removals are far more indiscriminatory. He removes a lot more people with no criminal record, which is a key reason why total deportations are so high since he assumed office. It's honestly the same to me, I don't have a horse in this race. You are making an assumption though that the data refers only to the time that Trump was officially president, it doesn't actually specify in the article. To be perfectly honest, I didn't think this was a particularly good source. Of course I made that assumption. Why would the time frame include Biden's last few months as president? That would be pants on fire levels of misinformation by the Department of Homeland Security, which provided the numbers. Unless their data was deliberately misrepresented by Tricia McLaughlin. Sure, you can make that argument. I think that's not as likely, but also plausible considering the lies and incompetence of Trump's administration. If I'm talking with an academic and they're talking about "this year's student intake" they actually meant the students enrolled in 2024. If they count deportations within financial years (which seems to be implied by the Biden line) it is perfectly reasonable to refer to "this year so far" to include all deportations within that financial year. It would also make their number look bigger, so why wouldn't they? The source is not great because it's mostly commentary, the data isn't shown, and it is not clear to what it refers to. Alright, I'll just provide another source. PolitiFact has a left-center bias with high factuality. Should be good enough. As of April 29, the Department of Homeland Security said there have been more than 142,000 deportations since Trump started his second term, but has not released a detailed breakdown. https://api.politifact.com/article/2025/apr/30/trump-immigration-injunctions-deportations142 000 reported deportations between January 20 and April 29. That would equate to 518 300 deportations during Trump's first year in office. Again, you can say Trump's administration generally spreads lies. Fine, make that argument if you want. But either they're lying or they're being truthful. If they're lying, then add that to the list of reasons why Trump supporters are mad fools. If they're telling the truth, then Americans need to buckle up as this term is gonna be a hell of a bumpy ride. I am not arguing for or against anything, just to be clear. I had a look at the source. It's about something else "Has Trump faced more deportation-related court injunctions than his predecessors?" The article isn't about deportation numbers, and was a bit of a turd to read, to be honest. It again quotes a random number given by someone at the department without providing further context about the data. I normally tell my students to cite primary sources, because otherwise you just have no idea what you're quoting. The same applies here.
Hello? Is somebody at home? The source PolitiFact cites from is the Department of Homeland Security.
WASHINGTON – In just 100 days, President Trump and Secretary Noem have delivered major victories addressing the crisis at the southern border, removing violent criminal illegal aliens from American communities, and stopping the flow of illicit drugs into our homeland. He’s accomplished more in 100 days than most presidents achieve in an entire term.
Deportations have already exceeded 142,000—this is just the beginning.
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2025/04/29/100-days-making-america-safe-again
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On July 05 2025 19:54 Dan HH wrote:I've seen multiple stories like this and at the risk of overestimating these people, it does seem pragmatic to make such statements. The MAGAs tend to make a gofundme for these cases, and on some level the family hopes someone up the chain sees the story and intervenes due to their loyalty. Whereas if they turn on Trump that's it, they're on their own.
Quite plausible. Perhaps you're right and in that instance the husband was lying to the press. A Trump supporter caught in the web would be well advised to lie in this situation.
Trump's second term started with the threat-of-force stage of fascism, and he quickly moved to real force to make coercion more effective. This is the result of his aggressive actions.
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On July 05 2025 21:04 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2025 20:59 EnDeR_ wrote:On July 05 2025 18:08 Magic Powers wrote:On July 05 2025 15:52 EnDeR_ wrote:On July 05 2025 07:29 Magic Powers wrote:On July 05 2025 05:44 EnDeR_ wrote:On July 05 2025 03:17 Magic Powers wrote:On July 04 2025 22:18 EnDeR_ wrote:On July 04 2025 06:56 Magic Powers wrote:Deportations Are Starting to Trend Higher
Trump told TIME last year he wanted to target 15 million people for removal. He said he was open to using the military to do it, in the face of restrictions in the Posse Comitatus Act that limits the use of the military on U.S. soil. In a campaign interview with ABC News in August, J.D. Vance said, “Let’s start with 1 million.”
At the end of April, the Administration said it had deported more than 139,000 migrants, which was behind pace to reach their aggressive targets. That is a reflection of just how time-consuming and challenging it is to find and remove people living in communities. On Tuesday, the Department of Homeland Security provided TIME with updated figures from Assistant Secretary Tricia McLaughlin: more than 207,000 deported. That represents a significant increase in the Administration's deportations and may reflect the more sweeping and intrusive actions immigration officials have taken in recent weeks. For context, the federal government deported 271,484 people in the 2024 fiscal year, which ended on Sept. 30.
https://time.com/7292939/trump-deportations-ice-arrests/ From that quote, assuming that the number in mid-June from Assistant Secretary Tricia McLaughlin is accurate and that it captures deportations from 30 Sept 2024 to 15 June 2025, Biden's deportation rate in 2024 was 22623/month, Trump's is 24352/month. Which, even if taken at face value, is honestly not that different and underwhelming (if you're a Trump fan). Wasn't BJ's point that you should probably not take numbers originating from the department at face value, though? Trump assumed office on January 20th this year, so that's where the counting starts, not in September of 2024, and the counting ends "on Tuesday" (I assume that's June 10th since the article was updated on June 11th which was a Wednesday). That makes it a reported 207 000 deportations over 140 days, which is nearly 45 000 deportations per month. That would be around double of Biden's 2024 deportation rate. Furthermore, under Biden the removals were over 90% connected to people with a criminal record. The remaining deportations were not removals. Under Trump however, removals are far more indiscriminatory. He removes a lot more people with no criminal record, which is a key reason why total deportations are so high since he assumed office. It's honestly the same to me, I don't have a horse in this race. You are making an assumption though that the data refers only to the time that Trump was officially president, it doesn't actually specify in the article. To be perfectly honest, I didn't think this was a particularly good source. Of course I made that assumption. Why would the time frame include Biden's last few months as president? That would be pants on fire levels of misinformation by the Department of Homeland Security, which provided the numbers. Unless their data was deliberately misrepresented by Tricia McLaughlin. Sure, you can make that argument. I think that's not as likely, but also plausible considering the lies and incompetence of Trump's administration. If I'm talking with an academic and they're talking about "this year's student intake" they actually meant the students enrolled in 2024. If they count deportations within financial years (which seems to be implied by the Biden line) it is perfectly reasonable to refer to "this year so far" to include all deportations within that financial year. It would also make their number look bigger, so why wouldn't they? The source is not great because it's mostly commentary, the data isn't shown, and it is not clear to what it refers to. Alright, I'll just provide another source. PolitiFact has a left-center bias with high factuality. Should be good enough. As of April 29, the Department of Homeland Security said there have been more than 142,000 deportations since Trump started his second term, but has not released a detailed breakdown. https://api.politifact.com/article/2025/apr/30/trump-immigration-injunctions-deportations142 000 reported deportations between January 20 and April 29. That would equate to 518 300 deportations during Trump's first year in office. Again, you can say Trump's administration generally spreads lies. Fine, make that argument if you want. But either they're lying or they're being truthful. If they're lying, then add that to the list of reasons why Trump supporters are mad fools. If they're telling the truth, then Americans need to buckle up as this term is gonna be a hell of a bumpy ride. I am not arguing for or against anything, just to be clear. I had a look at the source. It's about something else "Has Trump faced more deportation-related court injunctions than his predecessors?" The article isn't about deportation numbers, and was a bit of a turd to read, to be honest. It again quotes a random number given by someone at the department without providing further context about the data. I normally tell my students to cite primary sources, because otherwise you just have no idea what you're quoting. The same applies here. Hello? Is somebody at home? The source PolitiFact cites from is the Department of Homeland Security. Show nested quote +WASHINGTON – In just 100 days, President Trump and Secretary Noem have delivered major victories addressing the crisis at the southern border, removing violent criminal illegal aliens from American communities, and stopping the flow of illicit drugs into our homeland. He’s accomplished more in 100 days than most presidents achieve in an entire term. https://www.dhs.gov/news/2025/04/29/100-days-making-america-safe-again
I clicked the link and opened up the page. It reads like a propaganda manifesto, no mention on how the data was collected, its context, or anything else. It's just a random number that is quoted as extracted from somewhere.
I wouldn't consider that a good source. I don't understand why you would either, but I'm done clicking random links, im not reading another turd.
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EPT
