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On June 22 2025 20:51 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2025 17:23 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 22 2025 07:51 WombaT wrote:On June 22 2025 07:16 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 22 2025 06:56 Turbovolver wrote:On June 22 2025 00:40 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 22 2025 00:35 LightSpectra wrote:On June 22 2025 00:29 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 22 2025 00:18 LightSpectra wrote:On June 22 2025 00:04 GreenHorizons wrote:[quote] This just isn't what happened. [quote] That's not months ago. That's a few weeks ago. Cuomo was never at "80%", but ~20 days ago when you were making the argument that "most people are just answering polls based on name recognition" Cuomo's polling was basically the same as it is now. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/polls/nyc-mayoral-primary-election-polls-2025.htmlI don't know how you're going to try to explain away your bullshit here, but it will be literally incredible. I clicked on your link, Cuomo went from about +30 before the debates to between +13 to -5 now. Which part is the bullshit? What I said. Cuomo was never at "80%", but ~20 days ago when you were making the argument that "most people are just answering polls based on name recognition" Cuomo's polling was basically the same ~55% as it is now. I edited my comment before you replied, sorry about that, but yeah, Cuomo dropped about 20 points in the polls consistently in the past three weeks. Not sure what the issue is. When he was winning every demographic (conservative, liberal, and progressive) I think it was fair to say that early polls are not indicative of anything since nobody else had significant name recognition yet. Now that we're closer to the actual primary election, the question is why people keep breaking toward Cuomo, and the thing I was talking about is that a significant portion of Democrats (over half nationwide it seems) actually do ideologically agree with centrist liberalism, they aren't just voting on name recognition alone, they genuinely think Cuomo would make the best governor. I'm not going to play this game with you. Anyone with any integrity can see what you did, are doing now, and understands why I find it disgusting. At least one of them should call it out. I'll leave it there. And so the cat, who mewled at us so many times to discuss primarying better Democrats, turned and left with tail in the air once more when people actually tried to. I appreciated the discussion and welcome it to continue. As far as electoral politics and appealing to "blue no matter who" Dems/"swing voters" go, I pretty much just agree with what Zam has been saying Setting any politics aside, there are too many math/data people here to not know exactly what I'm talking about with Light's bs. I’m unsure what it is that Light’s been saying that you take such particular umbrage with? The "80%" lie to start. Also, the fact that this month Light was also saying that the majority of Cuomo's support was from name recognition, while only a few weeks later saying people repeating his point were being condescending while implying they're being racist.*The rhetorical manipulation of switching "80%" to "+30" while measuring different rounds against each other and such to save face was what made me abandon any hope. To be clear, that doesn't mean that Cuomo and moderate "thirdway" centrism or whatever doesn't have supporters. I just find this bullshit where centrists exploit (mostly) elder Black people's conservatism to make out anyone that opposes it to be condescending/racist some of the most despicable shit people ostensibly on the left habitually do nowadays.
It's no better than Republicans with Herman Cain, Justice Thomas, and Ben Carson types painting everyone that criticizes them as being racist. Fair point on the 80%. Whether it was pulled out of their arse or whatever, it was corrected though. I don’t think Light has expressed much of a different opinion as me when it comes to name recognition. It’s why I wasn’t paying much attention to polling months ago. The further you are out the more you’re just polling name recognition. When you start getting closer, other candidates get more of the spotlight, policies start getting sunlight, and records become more under the microscope. Just in general, people are paying more attention. It’s not contradictory to think name recognition wins early polls, but is less of a factor in winning elections themselves. Show nested quote +On June 22 2025 00:35 LightSpectra wrote:
I edited my comment before you replied, sorry about that, but yeah, Cuomo dropped about 20 points in the polls consistently in the past three weeks. Not sure what the issue is. When he was winning every demographic (conservative, liberal, and progressive) I think it was fair to say that early polls are not indicative of anything since nobody else had significant name recognition yet.
Now that we're closer to the actual primary election, the question is why people keep breaking toward Cuomo, and the thing I was talking about is that a significant portion of Democrats (over half nationwide it seems) actually do ideologically agree with centrist liberalism, they aren't just voting on name recognition alone, they genuinely think Cuomo would make the best governor. On the bolded, versus what’s actually said here there doesn’t seem much to link the two, at least from what LightSpectra has been saying. Certainly yes, a phenomenon one does see. I’m not sure I’m seeing it here. How do you win elections as a progressive, if the populace at large isn’t that progressive? That seems to be the crux of what they’re saying.
Not talking about "months ago", talking about 3 weeks, and Cuomo didn't "drop about 20 points" (if any) between when Light said most of Cuomo's support was coming from name recognition and when Light called it condescending while implying it was racist to agree.
The two polls before Light's comment have it 56-44 Cuomo and 54-46 Cuomo.
3 out of 5 of the polls listed since the debate have it 56-44 Cuomo, one has it 52-48 and one has it 55-45 Cuomo.
Light's presentation is disingenuous af and indicates the repeated use of "80%" before I called it out as bullshit wasn't an accident.
As to your question about progressives winning elections (which again is something the progressives/libs/Dems/ilk should be telling you, not me), basically the same way we got civil rights. The smaller portion of society with decency forces the rest of society to be better than they were yesterday or lose their peace. The elections of politicians to sign those laws come more as consequence of those organized efforts at disrupting society than as a precipitating condition.
The Civil Rights Movement (for an example) engaged in elections, but their organizing wasn't driven by electing politicians or politely convincing their opposition they were wrong.
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On June 22 2025 23:23 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2025 20:51 WombaT wrote:On June 22 2025 17:23 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 22 2025 07:51 WombaT wrote:On June 22 2025 07:16 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 22 2025 06:56 Turbovolver wrote:On June 22 2025 00:40 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 22 2025 00:35 LightSpectra wrote:On June 22 2025 00:29 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 22 2025 00:18 LightSpectra wrote:
[quote]
I clicked on your link, Cuomo went from about +30 before the debates to between +13 to -5 now. Which part is the bullshit? What I said. Cuomo was never at "80%", but ~20 days ago when you were making the argument that "most people are just answering polls based on name recognition" Cuomo's polling was basically the same ~55% as it is now. I edited my comment before you replied, sorry about that, but yeah, Cuomo dropped about 20 points in the polls consistently in the past three weeks. Not sure what the issue is. When he was winning every demographic (conservative, liberal, and progressive) I think it was fair to say that early polls are not indicative of anything since nobody else had significant name recognition yet. Now that we're closer to the actual primary election, the question is why people keep breaking toward Cuomo, and the thing I was talking about is that a significant portion of Democrats (over half nationwide it seems) actually do ideologically agree with centrist liberalism, they aren't just voting on name recognition alone, they genuinely think Cuomo would make the best governor. I'm not going to play this game with you. Anyone with any integrity can see what you did, are doing now, and understands why I find it disgusting. At least one of them should call it out. I'll leave it there. And so the cat, who mewled at us so many times to discuss primarying better Democrats, turned and left with tail in the air once more when people actually tried to. I appreciated the discussion and welcome it to continue. As far as electoral politics and appealing to "blue no matter who" Dems/"swing voters" go, I pretty much just agree with what Zam has been saying Setting any politics aside, there are too many math/data people here to not know exactly what I'm talking about with Light's bs. I’m unsure what it is that Light’s been saying that you take such particular umbrage with? The "80%" lie to start. Also, the fact that this month Light was also saying that the majority of Cuomo's support was from name recognition, while only a few weeks later saying people repeating his point were being condescending while implying they're being racist.*The rhetorical manipulation of switching "80%" to "+30" while measuring different rounds against each other and such to save face was what made me abandon any hope. To be clear, that doesn't mean that Cuomo and moderate "thirdway" centrism or whatever doesn't have supporters. I just find this bullshit where centrists exploit (mostly) elder Black people's conservatism to make out anyone that opposes it to be condescending/racist some of the most despicable shit people ostensibly on the left habitually do nowadays.
It's no better than Republicans with Herman Cain, Justice Thomas, and Ben Carson types painting everyone that criticizes them as being racist. Fair point on the 80%. Whether it was pulled out of their arse or whatever, it was corrected though. I don’t think Light has expressed much of a different opinion as me when it comes to name recognition. It’s why I wasn’t paying much attention to polling months ago. The further you are out the more you’re just polling name recognition. When you start getting closer, other candidates get more of the spotlight, policies start getting sunlight, and records become more under the microscope. Just in general, people are paying more attention. It’s not contradictory to think name recognition wins early polls, but is less of a factor in winning elections themselves. On June 22 2025 00:35 LightSpectra wrote:
I edited my comment before you replied, sorry about that, but yeah, Cuomo dropped about 20 points in the polls consistently in the past three weeks. Not sure what the issue is. When he was winning every demographic (conservative, liberal, and progressive) I think it was fair to say that early polls are not indicative of anything since nobody else had significant name recognition yet.
Now that we're closer to the actual primary election, the question is why people keep breaking toward Cuomo, and the thing I was talking about is that a significant portion of Democrats (over half nationwide it seems) actually do ideologically agree with centrist liberalism, they aren't just voting on name recognition alone, they genuinely think Cuomo would make the best governor. On the bolded, versus what’s actually said here there doesn’t seem much to link the two, at least from what LightSpectra has been saying. Certainly yes, a phenomenon one does see. I’m not sure I’m seeing it here. How do you win elections as a progressive, if the populace at large isn’t that progressive? That seems to be the crux of what they’re saying. Not talking about "months ago", talking about 3 weeks, and Cuomo didn't "drop about 20 points" ( if any) between when Light said most of Cuomo's support was coming from name recognition and when Light called it condescending while implying it was racist to agree. The two polls before Light's comment have it 56-44 Cuomo and 54-46 Cuomo. 3 out of 5 of the polls listed since the debate have it 56-44 Cuomo, one has it 52-48 and one has it 55-45 Cuomo. Light's presentation is disingenuous af and indicates the repeated use of "80%" before I called it out as bullshit wasn't an accident. As to your question about progressives winning elections (which again is something the progressives/libs/Dems/ilk should be telling you, not me), basically the same way we got civil rights, the smaller portion of society with decency forces the rest of society to be better than they were yesterday or lose their peace. The elections of politicians to sign those laws come more as consequence of those organized efforts at disrupting society than as a precipitating condition. The Civil Rights Movement (for an example) engaged in elections, but their organizing wasn't driven by electing politicians or politely convincing their opposition they were wrong.
wow what a totally horrible person, you were very justified to call him disgusting. Like totally different then 2 weeks ago when you were saying how much joe rogan and whatever moved the overton window with no proof and just vibes. I have no clue why after a decade you have managed to make your own movement smaller not bigger.
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From what I can gather, GH is mad because I had the audacity to say that spamming "DNC bad, progressive policy good" isn't a winning strategy, progressive candidates need to take centrist concerns seriously instead of calling them low information voters and then raging at them when they vote for who they think is the best candidate.
For some people, it's not enough to be right, they need to be taken as right by default and condescend to people who don't automatically agree with them.
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On June 22 2025 23:33 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2025 23:23 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 22 2025 20:51 WombaT wrote:On June 22 2025 17:23 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 22 2025 07:51 WombaT wrote:On June 22 2025 07:16 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 22 2025 06:56 Turbovolver wrote:On June 22 2025 00:40 GreenHorizons wrote:On June 22 2025 00:35 LightSpectra wrote:On June 22 2025 00:29 GreenHorizons wrote:[quote] What I said. Cuomo was never at "80%", but ~20 days ago when you were making the argument that "most people are just answering polls based on name recognition" Cuomo's polling was basically the same ~55% as it is now. I edited my comment before you replied, sorry about that, but yeah, Cuomo dropped about 20 points in the polls consistently in the past three weeks. Not sure what the issue is. When he was winning every demographic (conservative, liberal, and progressive) I think it was fair to say that early polls are not indicative of anything since nobody else had significant name recognition yet. Now that we're closer to the actual primary election, the question is why people keep breaking toward Cuomo, and the thing I was talking about is that a significant portion of Democrats (over half nationwide it seems) actually do ideologically agree with centrist liberalism, they aren't just voting on name recognition alone, they genuinely think Cuomo would make the best governor. I'm not going to play this game with you. Anyone with any integrity can see what you did, are doing now, and understands why I find it disgusting. At least one of them should call it out. I'll leave it there. And so the cat, who mewled at us so many times to discuss primarying better Democrats, turned and left with tail in the air once more when people actually tried to. I appreciated the discussion and welcome it to continue. As far as electoral politics and appealing to "blue no matter who" Dems/"swing voters" go, I pretty much just agree with what Zam has been saying Setting any politics aside, there are too many math/data people here to not know exactly what I'm talking about with Light's bs. I’m unsure what it is that Light’s been saying that you take such particular umbrage with? The "80%" lie to start. Also, the fact that this month Light was also saying that the majority of Cuomo's support was from name recognition, while only a few weeks later saying people repeating his point were being condescending while implying they're being racist.*The rhetorical manipulation of switching "80%" to "+30" while measuring different rounds against each other and such to save face was what made me abandon any hope. To be clear, that doesn't mean that Cuomo and moderate "thirdway" centrism or whatever doesn't have supporters. I just find this bullshit where centrists exploit (mostly) elder Black people's conservatism to make out anyone that opposes it to be condescending/racist some of the most despicable shit people ostensibly on the left habitually do nowadays.
It's no better than Republicans with Herman Cain, Justice Thomas, and Ben Carson types painting everyone that criticizes them as being racist. Fair point on the 80%. Whether it was pulled out of their arse or whatever, it was corrected though. I don’t think Light has expressed much of a different opinion as me when it comes to name recognition. It’s why I wasn’t paying much attention to polling months ago. The further you are out the more you’re just polling name recognition. When you start getting closer, other candidates get more of the spotlight, policies start getting sunlight, and records become more under the microscope. Just in general, people are paying more attention. It’s not contradictory to think name recognition wins early polls, but is less of a factor in winning elections themselves. On June 22 2025 00:35 LightSpectra wrote:
I edited my comment before you replied, sorry about that, but yeah, Cuomo dropped about 20 points in the polls consistently in the past three weeks. Not sure what the issue is. When he was winning every demographic (conservative, liberal, and progressive) I think it was fair to say that early polls are not indicative of anything since nobody else had significant name recognition yet.
Now that we're closer to the actual primary election, the question is why people keep breaking toward Cuomo, and the thing I was talking about is that a significant portion of Democrats (over half nationwide it seems) actually do ideologically agree with centrist liberalism, they aren't just voting on name recognition alone, they genuinely think Cuomo would make the best governor. On the bolded, versus what’s actually said here there doesn’t seem much to link the two, at least from what LightSpectra has been saying. Certainly yes, a phenomenon one does see. I’m not sure I’m seeing it here. How do you win elections as a progressive, if the populace at large isn’t that progressive? That seems to be the crux of what they’re saying. Not talking about "months ago", talking about 3 weeks, and Cuomo didn't "drop about 20 points" ( if any) between when Light said most of Cuomo's support was coming from name recognition and when Light called it condescending while implying it was racist to agree. The two polls before Light's comment have it 56-44 Cuomo and 54-46 Cuomo. 3 out of 5 of the polls listed since the debate have it 56-44 Cuomo, one has it 52-48 and one has it 55-45 Cuomo. Light's presentation is disingenuous af and indicates the repeated use of "80%" before I called it out as bullshit wasn't an accident. As to your question about progressives winning elections (which again is something the progressives/libs/Dems/ilk should be telling you, not me), basically the same way we got civil rights. The smaller portion of society with decency forces the rest of society to be better than they were yesterday or lose their peace. The elections of politicians to sign those laws come more as consequence of those organized efforts at disrupting society than as a precipitating condition. The Civil Rights Movement (for an example) engaged in elections, but their organizing wasn't driven by electing politicians or politely convincing their opposition they were wrong. From what I can gather, GH is mad because I had the audacity to say that spamming "DNC bad, progressive policy good" isn't a winning strategy, progressive candidates need to take centrist concerns seriously instead of calling them low information voters and then raging at them when they vote for who they think is the best candidate. For some people, it's not enough to be right, they need to be taken as right by default and condescend to people who don't automatically agree with them.
I very clearly explained the issues I had with your dishonest/misleading posting.
Rather than own up to it, you've created this piss poor strawman, which only further demonstrates your disingenuous engagement on this.
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On June 22 2025 23:33 LightSpectra wrote:
From what I can gather, GH is mad because I had the audacity to say that spamming "DNC bad, progressive policy good" isn't a winning strategy, progressive candidates need to take centrist concerns seriously instead of calling them low information voters and then raging at them when they vote for who they think is the best candidate.
For some people, it's not enough to be right, they need to be taken as right by default and condescend to people who don't automatically agree with them.
You failed his purity test so that he look down and you to feel better about him. It is his whole thing, do not feel bad there are like only 2,3 users in the history of TL politics threads that have not. He's not a serious person, just a guy play acting revolutionary on a gaming forum.
Don't worry the general strike is coming. They have had already had 300k sing up and only need 10m. What exactly they are asking for? Utopian socialism. I guess the bloody revolution comes after that, or maybe he has moved on, no one knows and few care.
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On June 22 2025 23:41 Billyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2025 23:33 LightSpectra wrote:
From what I can gather, GH is mad because I had the audacity to say that spamming "DNC bad, progressive policy good" isn't a winning strategy, progressive candidates need to take centrist concerns seriously instead of calling them low information voters and then raging at them when they vote for who they think is the best candidate.
For some people, it's not enough to be right, they need to be taken as right by default and condescend to people who don't automatically agree with them. You failed his purity test so that he look down and you to feel better about him. It is his whole thing, do not feel bad there are like only 2,3 users in the history of TL politics threads that have not. He's not a serious person, just a guy play acting revolutionary on a gaming forum. Don't worry the general strike is coming. They have had already had 300k sing up and only need 10m. What exactly they are asking for? Utopian socialism. I guess the bloody revolution comes after that, or maybe he has moved on, no one knows and few care.
I'm hoping this could be a learning moment for any other progressives reading this conversation. Not about GH personally, but about the general idea that being right is the only thing that matters, actually convincing other people you're right is some sort of peasant hobby.
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On June 22 2025 23:55 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2025 23:41 Billyboy wrote:On June 22 2025 23:33 LightSpectra wrote:
From what I can gather, GH is mad because I had the audacity to say that spamming "DNC bad, progressive policy good" isn't a winning strategy, progressive candidates need to take centrist concerns seriously instead of calling them low information voters and then raging at them when they vote for who they think is the best candidate.
For some people, it's not enough to be right, they need to be taken as right by default and condescend to people who don't automatically agree with them. You failed his purity test so that he look down and you to feel better about him. It is his whole thing, do not feel bad there are like only 2,3 users in the history of TL politics threads that have not. He's not a serious person, just a guy play acting revolutionary on a gaming forum. Don't worry the general strike is coming. They have had already had 300k sing up and only need 10m. What exactly they are asking for? Utopian socialism. I guess the bloody revolution comes after that, or maybe he has moved on, no one knows and few care. I'm hoping this could be a learning moment for any other progressives reading this conversation. Not about GH personally, but about the general idea that being right is the only thing that matters, actually convincing other people you're right is some sort of peasant hobby.
I also hope this is a learning moment for progs/Dems/libs/ilk that, like right-wingers, they too are susceptible to rejecting reality until they've been convinced of it (which can/will take more than just presenting them the facts/analysis that demonstrate it is true/reality).
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On June 22 2025 23:55 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2025 23:41 Billyboy wrote:On June 22 2025 23:33 LightSpectra wrote:
From what I can gather, GH is mad because I had the audacity to say that spamming "DNC bad, progressive policy good" isn't a winning strategy, progressive candidates need to take centrist concerns seriously instead of calling them low information voters and then raging at them when they vote for who they think is the best candidate.
For some people, it's not enough to be right, they need to be taken as right by default and condescend to people who don't automatically agree with them. You failed his purity test so that he look down and you to feel better about him. It is his whole thing, do not feel bad there are like only 2,3 users in the history of TL politics threads that have not. He's not a serious person, just a guy play acting revolutionary on a gaming forum. Don't worry the general strike is coming. They have had already had 300k sing up and only need 10m. What exactly they are asking for? Utopian socialism. I guess the bloody revolution comes after that, or maybe he has moved on, no one knows and few care. I'm hoping this could be a learning moment for any other progressives reading this conversation. Not about GH personally, but about the general idea that being right is the only thing that matters, actually convincing other people you're right is some sort of peasant hobby.
The right found a way to open their tent to a whole bunch of people. The Redneck wwf fan bro and the ultra religious group have basically nothing in common and somehow they have come together to be able to vote in a president. The in fighting over not being left enough needs to stop.
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On June 22 2025 23:33 LightSpectra wrote:
From what I can gather, GH is mad because I had the audacity to say that spamming "DNC bad, progressive policy good" isn't a winning strategy, progressive candidates need to take centrist concerns seriously instead of calling them low information voters and then raging at them when they vote for who they think is the best candidate.
For some people, it's not enough to be right, they need to be taken as right by default and condescend to people who don't automatically agree with them.
God can you imagine a more maligned political affiliation in the US than centrism, those poor, poor centrists with no one to represent them or take their concerns seriously, oh woe is them, for not once have the Democrats run on or elected centrists, when will those cruel leftists in power stop using all of their institutional power to crush the poor, poor centrists?
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On June 22 2025 22:32 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2025 22:20 Mohdoo wrote:
lol I didn’t even post recently. But good morning to you, too!
I had wondered how my “here’s how Khameini can still win” tankie friends would respond to this. They are saying the US strikes did zero harm to the nuclear facilities and Iran is giving the US an off ramp right now. If destroying Iran's nuclear facilities ends up being a successful deterrent, and Iran essentially gives up threatening and attacking other entities, would you support the United States doing the same thing against Israel and Russia - destroying their respective nuclear facilities as well?
This seems like an odd question but it probably means I’ve done a terrible job explaining my perspectives, so sorry for that. The thing that makes Iran distinct from Israel and Russia is Iran not yet having nuclear weapons.
Additionally, this was an ideal time to place a permanent power ceiling on Iran because they had an extremely limited ability to use proxies to base race Israel. Hezbollah in particular being mostly irrelevant rather than a significant military power is a rare opportunity. And Russia being tied up in Ukraine.
Look at all Iran managed to achieve despite significant antagonism from the west. Now consider Hezbollah and Russia being unable to help in this rare moment. Now imagine Iran with nukes. They’d have the breathing room to rebuild their proxies, wait for Russia, and probably be extremely powerful in 20 years. The allure of shackling Iran isn’t just lessening their existing power. The golden opportunity here was the ability to prevent what was clearly going to be a major world power if given the time to pull it off.
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The nobel peace prize candidate bombs the certain middle east state because another middle east state bombed it first for being nuclear state candidate.
I can't believe how dumb it is. Someone could guess that US president that criticized former warhawk policies should took the lessons from former mid east wars into heart, but nope. It joined the potentially most dangerous of them all.
Congratulation, Team America. You learnt nothing.
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On June 23 2025 00:08 Zambrah wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2025 23:33 LightSpectra wrote:
From what I can gather, GH is mad because I had the audacity to say that spamming "DNC bad, progressive policy good" isn't a winning strategy, progressive candidates need to take centrist concerns seriously instead of calling them low information voters and then raging at them when they vote for who they think is the best candidate.
For some people, it's not enough to be right, they need to be taken as right by default and condescend to people who don't automatically agree with them. God can you imagine a more maligned political affiliation in the US than centrism, those poor, poor centrists with no one to represent them or take their concerns seriously, oh woe is them, for not once have the Democrats run on or elected centrists, when will those cruel leftists in power stop using all of their institutional power to crush the poor, poor centrists?
Cuomo is taking them seriously, that's why he's still leading the polls against Mamdani. What do you prefer: progressives winning elections but you have to not sound like a douchebag, or sounding like a douchebag?
If you're into politics just so you can feel superior to people with worse beliefs, you're doing a bangup job. If you're into politics because you want the world to be a better place, you should figure out why people vote the way they do and try to appeal to them. Is this such a radical idea? Am I basically a Republican for saying that?
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On June 23 2025 01:05 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2025 00:08 Zambrah wrote:On June 22 2025 23:33 LightSpectra wrote:
From what I can gather, GH is mad because I had the audacity to say that spamming "DNC bad, progressive policy good" isn't a winning strategy, progressive candidates need to take centrist concerns seriously instead of calling them low information voters and then raging at them when they vote for who they think is the best candidate.
For some people, it's not enough to be right, they need to be taken as right by default and condescend to people who don't automatically agree with them. God can you imagine a more maligned political affiliation in the US than centrism, those poor, poor centrists with no one to represent them or take their concerns seriously, oh woe is them, for not once have the Democrats run on or elected centrists, when will those cruel leftists in power stop using all of their institutional power to crush the poor, poor centrists? Cuomo is taking them seriously, that's why he's still leading the polls against Mamdani. What do you prefer: progressives winning elections but you have to not sound like a douchebag, or sounding like a douchebag? If you're into politics just so you can feel superior to people with worse beliefs, you're doing a bangup job. If you're into politics because you want the world to be a better place, you should figure out why people vote the way they do and try to appeal to them. Is this such a radical idea? Am I basically a Republican for saying that?
You’re incapable of nuance and half of your comments toward me include dumb disingenuous bullshit that I didn’t say.
Go paint a frowny face on a wall and argue with that if you want to argue with whatever your idea of a progressive is, because I’m not going to argue with freaks who talk to people by arguing with people who aren’t even there, it’s the same type of dumb bullshit that the debate lord conservatives do and the reason I scroll past their inane posts.
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On June 23 2025 00:42 hitthat wrote:
The nobel peace prize candidate bombs the certain middle east state because another middle east state bombed it first for being nuclear state candidate.
I can't believe how dumb it is. Someone could guess that US president that criticized former warhawk policies should took the lessons from former mid east wars into heart, but nope. It joined the potentially most dangerous of them all.
Congratulation, Team America. You learnt nothing.
Why is Iran potentially the most dangerous war of them all?
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On June 23 2025 01:18 Zambrah wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2025 01:05 LightSpectra wrote:On June 23 2025 00:08 Zambrah wrote:On June 22 2025 23:33 LightSpectra wrote:
From what I can gather, GH is mad because I had the audacity to say that spamming "DNC bad, progressive policy good" isn't a winning strategy, progressive candidates need to take centrist concerns seriously instead of calling them low information voters and then raging at them when they vote for who they think is the best candidate.
For some people, it's not enough to be right, they need to be taken as right by default and condescend to people who don't automatically agree with them. God can you imagine a more maligned political affiliation in the US than centrism, those poor, poor centrists with no one to represent them or take their concerns seriously, oh woe is them, for not once have the Democrats run on or elected centrists, when will those cruel leftists in power stop using all of their institutional power to crush the poor, poor centrists? Cuomo is taking them seriously, that's why he's still leading the polls against Mamdani. What do you prefer: progressives winning elections but you have to not sound like a douchebag, or sounding like a douchebag? If you're into politics just so you can feel superior to people with worse beliefs, you're doing a bangup job. If you're into politics because you want the world to be a better place, you should figure out why people vote the way they do and try to appeal to them. Is this such a radical idea? Am I basically a Republican for saying that? You’re incapable of nuance and half of your comments toward me include dumb disingenuous bullshit that I didn’t say. Go paint a frowny face on a wall and argue with that if you want to argue with whatever your idea of a progressive is, because I’m not going to argue with freaks who talk to people by arguing with people who aren’t even there, it’s the same type of dumb bullshit that the debate lord conservatives do and the reason I scroll past their inane posts.
Well, ok then. For both of our sakes I hope the "energize the base" strategy you've decided to put all your tokens into is a winning one, despite all evidence to the contrary.
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On June 23 2025 01:30 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2025 01:18 Zambrah wrote:On June 23 2025 01:05 LightSpectra wrote:On June 23 2025 00:08 Zambrah wrote:On June 22 2025 23:33 LightSpectra wrote:
From what I can gather, GH is mad because I had the audacity to say that spamming "DNC bad, progressive policy good" isn't a winning strategy, progressive candidates need to take centrist concerns seriously instead of calling them low information voters and then raging at them when they vote for who they think is the best candidate.
For some people, it's not enough to be right, they need to be taken as right by default and condescend to people who don't automatically agree with them. God can you imagine a more maligned political affiliation in the US than centrism, those poor, poor centrists with no one to represent them or take their concerns seriously, oh woe is them, for not once have the Democrats run on or elected centrists, when will those cruel leftists in power stop using all of their institutional power to crush the poor, poor centrists? Cuomo is taking them seriously, that's why he's still leading the polls against Mamdani. What do you prefer: progressives winning elections but you have to not sound like a douchebag, or sounding like a douchebag? If you're into politics just so you can feel superior to people with worse beliefs, you're doing a bangup job. If you're into politics because you want the world to be a better place, you should figure out why people vote the way they do and try to appeal to them. Is this such a radical idea? Am I basically a Republican for saying that? You’re incapable of nuance and half of your comments toward me include dumb disingenuous bullshit that I didn’t say. Go paint a frowny face on a wall and argue with that if you want to argue with whatever your idea of a progressive is, because I’m not going to argue with freaks who talk to people by arguing with people who aren’t even there, it’s the same type of dumb bullshit that the debate lord conservatives do and the reason I scroll past their inane posts. Well, ok then. For both of our sakes I hope the "energize the base" strategy you've decided to put all your tokens into is a winning one, despite all evidence to the contrary.
Yeah, appealing to centrists is such a winning strategy,
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On June 23 2025 01:21 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2025 00:42 hitthat wrote:
The nobel peace prize candidate bombs the certain middle east state because another middle east state bombed it first for being nuclear state candidate.
I can't believe how dumb it is. Someone could guess that US president that criticized former warhawk policies should took the lessons from former mid east wars into heart, but nope. It joined the potentially most dangerous of them all.
Congratulation, Team America. You learnt nothing. Why is Iran potentially the most dangerous war of them all?
Afganistan was already war-torn fallen state - so attacking them changed nothing, and Iraq, althou I fucking despised taking part in this one, was at least in complete isolation. Both states were like 20 milion states when the US intervened, althou Afganistan is now over 40 milion country. Iran is connected with Pakis and shia militants and is already more than 90 milion nation, more than Iraq and Afganistan combined, and is attacked in time when drone warfare capabilities are realised but effective countermeasures are not fully developed yet. Oh, and they have strained relation with Saudis, so the war can escalate into regional war with Arabia and Yemen if Iran will try to push it farther just to damage US standing in mid east.
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On June 23 2025 01:51 Zambrah wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2025 01:30 LightSpectra wrote:On June 23 2025 01:18 Zambrah wrote:On June 23 2025 01:05 LightSpectra wrote:On June 23 2025 00:08 Zambrah wrote:On June 22 2025 23:33 LightSpectra wrote:
From what I can gather, GH is mad because I had the audacity to say that spamming "DNC bad, progressive policy good" isn't a winning strategy, progressive candidates need to take centrist concerns seriously instead of calling them low information voters and then raging at them when they vote for who they think is the best candidate.
For some people, it's not enough to be right, they need to be taken as right by default and condescend to people who don't automatically agree with them. God can you imagine a more maligned political affiliation in the US than centrism, those poor, poor centrists with no one to represent them or take their concerns seriously, oh woe is them, for not once have the Democrats run on or elected centrists, when will those cruel leftists in power stop using all of their institutional power to crush the poor, poor centrists? Cuomo is taking them seriously, that's why he's still leading the polls against Mamdani. What do you prefer: progressives winning elections but you have to not sound like a douchebag, or sounding like a douchebag? If you're into politics just so you can feel superior to people with worse beliefs, you're doing a bangup job. If you're into politics because you want the world to be a better place, you should figure out why people vote the way they do and try to appeal to them. Is this such a radical idea? Am I basically a Republican for saying that? You’re incapable of nuance and half of your comments toward me include dumb disingenuous bullshit that I didn’t say. Go paint a frowny face on a wall and argue with that if you want to argue with whatever your idea of a progressive is, because I’m not going to argue with freaks who talk to people by arguing with people who aren’t even there, it’s the same type of dumb bullshit that the debate lord conservatives do and the reason I scroll past their inane posts. Well, ok then. For both of our sakes I hope the "energize the base" strategy you've decided to put all your tokens into is a winning one, despite all evidence to the contrary. Yeah, appealing to centrists is such a winning strategy,
Joe Biden won more votes than any other presidential candidate in U.S. history by campaigning as a liberal throwing some bones to progressives. How many elections have progressives won outside of deep blue congressional districts?
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On June 23 2025 01:53 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2025 01:51 Zambrah wrote:On June 23 2025 01:30 LightSpectra wrote:On June 23 2025 01:18 Zambrah wrote:On June 23 2025 01:05 LightSpectra wrote:On June 23 2025 00:08 Zambrah wrote:On June 22 2025 23:33 LightSpectra wrote:
From what I can gather, GH is mad because I had the audacity to say that spamming "DNC bad, progressive policy good" isn't a winning strategy, progressive candidates need to take centrist concerns seriously instead of calling them low information voters and then raging at them when they vote for who they think is the best candidate.
For some people, it's not enough to be right, they need to be taken as right by default and condescend to people who don't automatically agree with them. God can you imagine a more maligned political affiliation in the US than centrism, those poor, poor centrists with no one to represent them or take their concerns seriously, oh woe is them, for not once have the Democrats run on or elected centrists, when will those cruel leftists in power stop using all of their institutional power to crush the poor, poor centrists? Cuomo is taking them seriously, that's why he's still leading the polls against Mamdani. What do you prefer: progressives winning elections but you have to not sound like a douchebag, or sounding like a douchebag? If you're into politics just so you can feel superior to people with worse beliefs, you're doing a bangup job. If you're into politics because you want the world to be a better place, you should figure out why people vote the way they do and try to appeal to them. Is this such a radical idea? Am I basically a Republican for saying that? You’re incapable of nuance and half of your comments toward me include dumb disingenuous bullshit that I didn’t say. Go paint a frowny face on a wall and argue with that if you want to argue with whatever your idea of a progressive is, because I’m not going to argue with freaks who talk to people by arguing with people who aren’t even there, it’s the same type of dumb bullshit that the debate lord conservatives do and the reason I scroll past their inane posts. Well, ok then. For both of our sakes I hope the "energize the base" strategy you've decided to put all your tokens into is a winning one, despite all evidence to the contrary. Yeah, appealing to centrists is such a winning strategy, Joe Biden won more votes than any other presidential candidate in U.S. history by campaigning as a liberal throwing some bones to progressives. How many elections have progressives won outside of deep blue congressional districts?
Joe Biden ran against one of the most despised human beings in American history after he grossly mismanaged a severe pandemic.
Clinton and Harris were also mediocre centrists and managed to lose to one of the most despised human beings in American history.
American voters dont swing between parties, and when Democrats win its because turnout was up.
Driving turnout is how Democrats win, that theres any resistance to that is baffling.
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On June 23 2025 01:59 Zambrah wrote:Show nested quote +On June 23 2025 01:53 LightSpectra wrote:On June 23 2025 01:51 Zambrah wrote:On June 23 2025 01:30 LightSpectra wrote:On June 23 2025 01:18 Zambrah wrote:On June 23 2025 01:05 LightSpectra wrote:On June 23 2025 00:08 Zambrah wrote:On June 22 2025 23:33 LightSpectra wrote:
From what I can gather, GH is mad because I had the audacity to say that spamming "DNC bad, progressive policy good" isn't a winning strategy, progressive candidates need to take centrist concerns seriously instead of calling them low information voters and then raging at them when they vote for who they think is the best candidate.
For some people, it's not enough to be right, they need to be taken as right by default and condescend to people who don't automatically agree with them. God can you imagine a more maligned political affiliation in the US than centrism, those poor, poor centrists with no one to represent them or take their concerns seriously, oh woe is them, for not once have the Democrats run on or elected centrists, when will those cruel leftists in power stop using all of their institutional power to crush the poor, poor centrists? Cuomo is taking them seriously, that's why he's still leading the polls against Mamdani. What do you prefer: progressives winning elections but you have to not sound like a douchebag, or sounding like a douchebag? If you're into politics just so you can feel superior to people with worse beliefs, you're doing a bangup job. If you're into politics because you want the world to be a better place, you should figure out why people vote the way they do and try to appeal to them. Is this such a radical idea? Am I basically a Republican for saying that? You’re incapable of nuance and half of your comments toward me include dumb disingenuous bullshit that I didn’t say. Go paint a frowny face on a wall and argue with that if you want to argue with whatever your idea of a progressive is, because I’m not going to argue with freaks who talk to people by arguing with people who aren’t even there, it’s the same type of dumb bullshit that the debate lord conservatives do and the reason I scroll past their inane posts. Well, ok then. For both of our sakes I hope the "energize the base" strategy you've decided to put all your tokens into is a winning one, despite all evidence to the contrary. Yeah, appealing to centrists is such a winning strategy, Joe Biden won more votes than any other presidential candidate in U.S. history by campaigning as a liberal throwing some bones to progressives. How many elections have progressives won outside of deep blue congressional districts? Joe Biden ran against one of the most despised human beings in American history after he grossly mismanaged a severe pandemic. Clinton and Harris were also mediocre centrists and managed to lose to one of the most despised human beings in American history. American voters dont swing between parties, and when Democrats win its because turnout was up. Driving turnout is how Democrats win, that theres any resistance to that is baffling.
In 2016, Clinton was polling >10 points ahead of Trump two weeks before the election, it evened out because Jim Comey handed a fake scandal to the media on a silver platter.
All the polling data I've seen suggested Harris lost Biden voters because she was perceived as being too left-wing (e.g. NYT/Siena poll saying 47% thought she was "too liberal or progressive" and 9% thought she was "not liberal or progressive enough"). And moreover, if the reason Biden won was because Trump is "one of the most despised beings in American history," that doesn't really explain how millions of Biden 2020 voters didn't turn out for Harris, since between the 2020 and 2024 elections was the whole 91 felony indictments plus adjudication on sexual assault--he became a worse person, not a better one.
I'm to the left of Harris but she should've spent more time and resources winning centrists, not less.
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EPT
