Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!
NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.
On June 15 2025 07:54 BlackJack wrote: Are you using nazi and fascist interchangeably? I have no problem admitting Trump is fascist though while all nazis are fascists not all fascists are nazis. Unwavering support for Israel is a pretty big "but" in labeling him the brand of fascism infamous for their antisemitism.
My view is that Trump is a fascist. Nazi is a very specific (and when you get into it, very weird) subtype of fascism that has loads of bad biology and Darwinism mashed into it. Whereas Trump is just classic “there was a glorious past but then the enemy within took it away from us and only by ceding all power to the great leader can the enemy be destroyed and the national birthright be restored”. Super fascist but without the crazy “violence is the only real truth and so the only way of telling which scientific theory is correct is to make the competing scientists fight to the death” shit that Nazis do.
Honestly on the Nazi thing you got me with your classic trap. The correct response to you ought not to have been “okay but Nazis totally do that”, even though your point was laughably false and Nazis do totally do that. It ought to have been “why are you talking about Nazis”.
That said, there's absolutely a racial element to Trump's brand of fascism. He's made it very clear that the other which is infecting the blood of the nation and must be destroyed is foreign and nonwhite. This is kind of like how grandmas call all consoles Nintendos. If you know a bunch about the subject you can chime in and say "actually this is a Playstation which is made by Sony which is a Japanese company whereas Nintendos are made by Nintendo which is also a Japanese company but not the same one". But you don't have to do that, you know what grandma means. "Nazi" is functionally true enough for people who aren't particularly informed about Nazism. It gets you 90% of the way there.
For the record I was "talking about Nazis" in response to your post where you used Nazi like 4 times. I was simply repeating your word back to you.
On June 15 2025 07:54 BlackJack wrote: Are you using nazi and fascist interchangeably? I have no problem admitting Trump is fascist though while all nazis are fascists not all fascists are nazis. Unwavering support for Israel is a pretty big "but" in labeling him the brand of fascism infamous for their antisemitism.
My view is that Trump is a fascist. Nazi is a very specific (and when you get into it, very weird) subtype of fascism that has loads of bad biology and Darwinism mashed into it. Whereas Trump is just classic “there was a glorious past but then the enemy within took it away from us and only by ceding all power to the great leader can the enemy be destroyed and the national birthright be restored”. Super fascist but without the crazy “violence is the only real truth and so the only way of telling which scientific theory is correct is to make the competing scientists fight to the death” shit that Nazis do.
Honestly on the Nazi thing you got me with your classic trap. The correct response to you ought not to have been “okay but Nazis totally do that”, even though your point was laughably false and Nazis do totally do that. It ought to have been “why are you talking about Nazis”.
That said, there's absolutely a racial element to Trump's brand of fascism. He's made it very clear that the other which is infecting the blood of the nation and must be destroyed is foreign and nonwhite. This is kind of like how grandmas call all consoles Nintendos. If you know a bunch about the subject you can chime in and say "actually this is a Playstation which is made by Sony which is a Japanese company whereas Nintendos are made by Nintendo which is also a Japanese company but not the same one". But you don't have to do that, you know what grandma means. "Nazi" is functionally true enough for people who aren't particularly informed about Nazism. It gets you 90% of the way there.
For the record I was "talking about Nazis" in response to your post where you used Nazi like 4 times. I was simply repeating your word back to you.
Fair. I assumed that because you were talking about how it was undermining a narrative where fascism and white supremacism were combined you were implying a narrative of Nazism. I assumed that correctly, you absolutely were, but you didn't specify. Point to you.
In any case, the more I think about the grandma metaphor the more I like it. If grandma asks you if you enjoyed watching your Superman movie and it was really some Marvel property then technically she's wrong but in a broader sense, she's right, there's a guy and he's flying and he's wearing a cape and he's saving the world. It's a Superman movie. If grandma asks you if you had fun at your Nazi rally then sure, you can explain that Nazis believe that a Jewish cosmopolitan elite are poisoning the youth of the nation whereas MAGA believe that an unspecified cosmopolitan elite are poisoning the youth of the nation. But you shouldn't, you should just be happy grandma is taking an interest in your hobbies.
Nazi and fascist are used interchangeably in common parlance to mean far-right authoritarianism, quibbling about which one is more technically accurate is kinda pointless outside of a history class.
On June 15 2025 07:54 BlackJack wrote: Are you using nazi and fascist interchangeably? I have no problem admitting Trump is fascist though while all nazis are fascists not all fascists are nazis. Unwavering support for Israel is a pretty big "but" in labeling him the brand of fascism infamous for their antisemitism.
My view is that Trump is a fascist. Nazi is a very specific (and when you get into it, very weird) subtype of fascism that has loads of bad biology and Darwinism mashed into it. Whereas Trump is just classic “there was a glorious past but then the enemy within took it away from us and only by ceding all power to the great leader can the enemy be destroyed and the national birthright be restored”. Super fascist but without the crazy “violence is the only real truth and so the only way of telling which scientific theory is correct is to make the competing scientists fight to the death” shit that Nazis do.
Honestly on the Nazi thing you got me with your classic trap. The correct response to you ought not to have been “okay but Nazis totally do that”, even though your point was laughably false and Nazis do totally do that. It ought to have been “why are you talking about Nazis”.
That said, there's absolutely a racial element to Trump's brand of fascism. He's made it very clear that the other which is infecting the blood of the nation and must be destroyed is foreign and nonwhite. This is kind of like how grandmas call all consoles Nintendos. If you know a bunch about the subject you can chime in and say "actually this is a Playstation which is made by Sony which is a Japanese company whereas Nintendos are made by Nintendo which is also a Japanese company but not the same one". But you don't have to do that, you know what grandma means. "Nazi" is functionally true enough for people who aren't particularly informed about Nazism. It gets you 90% of the way there.
Bolded is important and... wrong. Unless by "gets you 90% of the way there" you mean Trump getting elected. It is so overused that for average person it is white noise. It kinda goes in the same category as: " motherf...r"
On June 15 2025 07:54 BlackJack wrote: Are you using nazi and fascist interchangeably? I have no problem admitting Trump is fascist though while all nazis are fascists not all fascists are nazis. Unwavering support for Israel is a pretty big "but" in labeling him the brand of fascism infamous for their antisemitism.
My view is that Trump is a fascist. Nazi is a very specific (and when you get into it, very weird) subtype of fascism that has loads of bad biology and Darwinism mashed into it. Whereas Trump is just classic “there was a glorious past but then the enemy within took it away from us and only by ceding all power to the great leader can the enemy be destroyed and the national birthright be restored”. Super fascist but without the crazy “violence is the only real truth and so the only way of telling which scientific theory is correct is to make the competing scientists fight to the death” shit that Nazis do.
Honestly on the Nazi thing you got me with your classic trap. The correct response to you ought not to have been “okay but Nazis totally do that”, even though your point was laughably false and Nazis do totally do that. It ought to have been “why are you talking about Nazis”.
That said, there's absolutely a racial element to Trump's brand of fascism. He's made it very clear that the other which is infecting the blood of the nation and must be destroyed is foreign and nonwhite. This is kind of like how grandmas call all consoles Nintendos. If you know a bunch about the subject you can chime in and say "actually this is a Playstation which is made by Sony which is a Japanese company whereas Nintendos are made by Nintendo which is also a Japanese company but not the same one". But you don't have to do that, you know what grandma means. "Nazi" is functionally true enough for people who aren't particularly informed about Nazism. It gets you 90% of the way there.
For the record I was "talking about Nazis" in response to your post where you used Nazi like 4 times. I was simply repeating your word back to you.
Fair. I assumed that because you were talking about how it was undermining a narrative where fascism and white supremacism were combined you were implying a narrative of Nazism. I assumed that correctly, you absolutely were, but you didn't specify. Point to you.
In any case, the more I think about the grandma metaphor the more I like it. If grandma asks you if you enjoyed watching your Superman movie and it was really some Marvel property then technically she's wrong but in a broader sense, she's right, there's a guy and he's flying and he's wearing a cape and he's saving the world. It's a Superman movie. If grandma asks you if you had fun at your Nazi rally then sure, you can explain that Nazis believe that a Jewish cosmopolitan elite are poisoning the youth of the nation whereas MAGA believe that an unspecified cosmopolitan elite are poisoning the youth of the nation. But you shouldn't, you should just be happy grandma is taking an interest in your hobbies.
There’s a lot of bad analogies that have been offered lately. This one is not bad
On June 15 2025 07:54 BlackJack wrote: Are you using nazi and fascist interchangeably? I have no problem admitting Trump is fascist though while all nazis are fascists not all fascists are nazis. Unwavering support for Israel is a pretty big "but" in labeling him the brand of fascism infamous for their antisemitism.
My view is that Trump is a fascist. Nazi is a very specific (and when you get into it, very weird) subtype of fascism that has loads of bad biology and Darwinism mashed into it. Whereas Trump is just classic “there was a glorious past but then the enemy within took it away from us and only by ceding all power to the great leader can the enemy be destroyed and the national birthright be restored”. Super fascist but without the crazy “violence is the only real truth and so the only way of telling which scientific theory is correct is to make the competing scientists fight to the death” shit that Nazis do.
Honestly on the Nazi thing you got me with your classic trap. The correct response to you ought not to have been “okay but Nazis totally do that”, even though your point was laughably false and Nazis do totally do that. It ought to have been “why are you talking about Nazis”.
That said, there's absolutely a racial element to Trump's brand of fascism. He's made it very clear that the other which is infecting the blood of the nation and must be destroyed is foreign and nonwhite. This is kind of like how grandmas call all consoles Nintendos. If you know a bunch about the subject you can chime in and say "actually this is a Playstation which is made by Sony which is a Japanese company whereas Nintendos are made by Nintendo which is also a Japanese company but not the same one". But you don't have to do that, you know what grandma means. "Nazi" is functionally true enough for people who aren't particularly informed about Nazism. It gets you 90% of the way there.
Bolded is important and... wrong. Unless by "gets you 90% of the way there" you mean Trump getting elected. It is so overused that for average person it is white noise. It kinda goes in the same category as: " motherf...r"
Nobody noteworthy said McCain or Romney or H.W. Bush etc. were Nazis. Some people did make some Nazi comparisons to W. Bush, primarily because of the extrajudicial detainment at Guantanamo, but almost nobody noteworthy (except like, I dunno, Keith Olbermann?) was straight-up calling him a fascist.
On the other hand, Trump went full lügenpresse before he was even president, and was saying wildly insane things like Obama literally founded ISIS. Even other Republicans were calling him a Nazi. J.D. Vance verbatim said Trump would be "America's Hitler." His primarily campaign plank was demonizing immigrants, and blaming minorities and "the left" for all the world's problems is a cornerstone of fascist rhetoric.
The "white noise" nonsense is simply untrue and should not be repeated again.
On June 15 2025 07:54 BlackJack wrote: Are you using nazi and fascist interchangeably? I have no problem admitting Trump is fascist though while all nazis are fascists not all fascists are nazis. Unwavering support for Israel is a pretty big "but" in labeling him the brand of fascism infamous for their antisemitism.
My view is that Trump is a fascist. Nazi is a very specific (and when you get into it, very weird) subtype of fascism that has loads of bad biology and Darwinism mashed into it. Whereas Trump is just classic “there was a glorious past but then the enemy within took it away from us and only by ceding all power to the great leader can the enemy be destroyed and the national birthright be restored”. Super fascist but without the crazy “violence is the only real truth and so the only way of telling which scientific theory is correct is to make the competing scientists fight to the death” shit that Nazis do.
Honestly on the Nazi thing you got me with your classic trap. The correct response to you ought not to have been “okay but Nazis totally do that”, even though your point was laughably false and Nazis do totally do that. It ought to have been “why are you talking about Nazis”.
That said, there's absolutely a racial element to Trump's brand of fascism. He's made it very clear that the other which is infecting the blood of the nation and must be destroyed is foreign and nonwhite. This is kind of like how grandmas call all consoles Nintendos. If you know a bunch about the subject you can chime in and say "actually this is a Playstation which is made by Sony which is a Japanese company whereas Nintendos are made by Nintendo which is also a Japanese company but not the same one". But you don't have to do that, you know what grandma means. "Nazi" is functionally true enough for people who aren't particularly informed about Nazism. It gets you 90% of the way there.
Bolded is important and... wrong. Unless by "gets you 90% of the way there" you mean Trump getting elected. It is so overused that for average person it is white noise. It kinda goes in the same category as: " motherf...r"
On June 15 2025 07:54 BlackJack wrote: Are you using nazi and fascist interchangeably? I have no problem admitting Trump is fascist though while all nazis are fascists not all fascists are nazis. Unwavering support for Israel is a pretty big "but" in labeling him the brand of fascism infamous for their antisemitism.
My view is that Trump is a fascist. Nazi is a very specific (and when you get into it, very weird) subtype of fascism that has loads of bad biology and Darwinism mashed into it. Whereas Trump is just classic “there was a glorious past but then the enemy within took it away from us and only by ceding all power to the great leader can the enemy be destroyed and the national birthright be restored”. Super fascist but without the crazy “violence is the only real truth and so the only way of telling which scientific theory is correct is to make the competing scientists fight to the death” shit that Nazis do.
Honestly on the Nazi thing you got me with your classic trap. The correct response to you ought not to have been “okay but Nazis totally do that”, even though your point was laughably false and Nazis do totally do that. It ought to have been “why are you talking about Nazis”.
That said, there's absolutely a racial element to Trump's brand of fascism. He's made it very clear that the other which is infecting the blood of the nation and must be destroyed is foreign and nonwhite. This is kind of like how grandmas call all consoles Nintendos. If you know a bunch about the subject you can chime in and say "actually this is a Playstation which is made by Sony which is a Japanese company whereas Nintendos are made by Nintendo which is also a Japanese company but not the same one". But you don't have to do that, you know what grandma means. "Nazi" is functionally true enough for people who aren't particularly informed about Nazism. It gets you 90% of the way there.
Bolded is important and... wrong. Unless by "gets you 90% of the way there" you mean Trump getting elected. It is so overused that for average person it is white noise. It kinda goes in the same category as: " motherf...r"
Nobody noteworthy said McCain or Romney or H.W. Bush etc. were Nazis. Some people did make some Nazi comparisons to W. Bush, primarily because of the extrajudicial detainment at Guantanamo, but almost nobody noteworthy (except like, I dunno, Keith Olbermann?) was straight-up calling him a fascist.
On the other hand, Trump went full lügenpresse before he was even president, and was saying wildly insane things like Obama literally founded ISIS. Even other Republicans were calling him a Nazi. J.D. Vance verbatim said Trump would be "America's Hitler." His primarily campaign plank was demonizing immigrants, and blaming minorities and "the left" for all the world's problems is a cornerstone of fascist rhetoric.
The "white noise" nonsense is simply untrue and should not be repeated again.
Except it is and nobody gives a damn about someone being called nazi. And you my liberal friend are certainly not someone, who can tell me what I can repeat .
On June 15 2025 10:48 KwarK wrote:
It’s not wrong.
Yeah Kwarkie, you have election to prove it is not wrong.
If "nobody gives a damn" then why are you complaining that people are doing so? Sorry it hurts to hear the truth, but badgering people into not saying it aloud doesn't make it untrue.
Also, are you insinuating there's a significant number of people who voted Trump because he was widely accused of being a fascist?
On June 15 2025 07:54 BlackJack wrote: Are you using nazi and fascist interchangeably? I have no problem admitting Trump is fascist though while all nazis are fascists not all fascists are nazis. Unwavering support for Israel is a pretty big "but" in labeling him the brand of fascism infamous for their antisemitism.
My view is that Trump is a fascist. Nazi is a very specific (and when you get into it, very weird) subtype of fascism that has loads of bad biology and Darwinism mashed into it. Whereas Trump is just classic “there was a glorious past but then the enemy within took it away from us and only by ceding all power to the great leader can the enemy be destroyed and the national birthright be restored”. Super fascist but without the crazy “violence is the only real truth and so the only way of telling which scientific theory is correct is to make the competing scientists fight to the death” shit that Nazis do.
Honestly on the Nazi thing you got me with your classic trap. The correct response to you ought not to have been “okay but Nazis totally do that”, even though your point was laughably false and Nazis do totally do that. It ought to have been “why are you talking about Nazis”.
That said, there's absolutely a racial element to Trump's brand of fascism. He's made it very clear that the other which is infecting the blood of the nation and must be destroyed is foreign and nonwhite. This is kind of like how grandmas call all consoles Nintendos. If you know a bunch about the subject you can chime in and say "actually this is a Playstation which is made by Sony which is a Japanese company whereas Nintendos are made by Nintendo which is also a Japanese company but not the same one". But you don't have to do that, you know what grandma means. "Nazi" is functionally true enough for people who aren't particularly informed about Nazism. It gets you 90% of the way there.
Bolded is important and... wrong. Unless by "gets you 90% of the way there" you mean Trump getting elected. It is so overused that for average person it is white noise. It kinda goes in the same category as: " motherf...r"
Nobody noteworthy said McCain or Romney or H.W. Bush etc. were Nazis. Some people did make some Nazi comparisons to W. Bush, primarily because of the extrajudicial detainment at Guantanamo, but almost nobody noteworthy (except like, I dunno, Keith Olbermann?) was straight-up calling him a fascist.
On the other hand, Trump went full lügenpresse before he was even president, and was saying wildly insane things like Obama literally founded ISIS. Even other Republicans were calling him a Nazi. J.D. Vance verbatim said Trump would be "America's Hitler." His primarily campaign plank was demonizing immigrants, and blaming minorities and "the left" for all the world's problems is a cornerstone of fascist rhetoric.
The "white noise" nonsense is simply untrue and should not be repeated again.
Except it is and nobody gives a damn about someone being called nazi. And you my liberal friend are certainly not someone, who can tell me what I can repeat .
On June 15 2025 07:35 BlackJack wrote: @MP Can you provide me a citation that Mexicans are deported at a higher rate?
Yes, I'll do that for you. Though I don't understand why you haven't done that research yourself yet. If you need tips on that I'm glad to describe how I generally start my research process online.
In the first paragraph of the very first link that shows up when searching for "are minority groups being deported at a higher rate in the united states" using Microsoft Bing for the search:
Title: Who Gets Deported? Immigrant Removal Rates by National Origin and Period, 1998 to 2021
Most removal proceedings in U.S. immigration courts result in removal, but research has yet to consider how removal rates vary by nationality and period. Using Executive Office of Immigration Review data, the authors examine the removal rates for the 30 most common national-origin groups in removal proceedings. Honduran, Mexican, Guatemalan, and Brazilian nationals have been ordered removed at rates considerably higher than the population average, while Chinese, Albanian, Egyptian, and Ethiopian nationals experience notably low rates of removal. Additionally, the authors find a general decline in removal rates between 1998 and 2021, with a notable jump in removal rates during the Trump administration. Disaggregating removal rates by nationality and period has important implications for understanding disparities in access to legal resources and immigration enforcement practices.
A true depiction of what 99% of the protests look(ed) like: peaceful.
The violence the media showed us was a small fraction of a small fraction. And yet Trump has kept sending in military regardless. He sent more NG and even added Marines. Nobody needs them, they're not there to protect anybody.
On June 15 2025 07:54 BlackJack wrote: Are you using nazi and fascist interchangeably? I have no problem admitting Trump is fascist though while all nazis are fascists not all fascists are nazis. Unwavering support for Israel is a pretty big "but" in labeling him the brand of fascism infamous for their antisemitism.
My view is that Trump is a fascist. Nazi is a very specific (and when you get into it, very weird) subtype of fascism that has loads of bad biology and Darwinism mashed into it. Whereas Trump is just classic “there was a glorious past but then the enemy within took it away from us and only by ceding all power to the great leader can the enemy be destroyed and the national birthright be restored”. Super fascist but without the crazy “violence is the only real truth and so the only way of telling which scientific theory is correct is to make the competing scientists fight to the death” shit that Nazis do.
Honestly on the Nazi thing you got me with your classic trap. The correct response to you ought not to have been “okay but Nazis totally do that”, even though your point was laughably false and Nazis do totally do that. It ought to have been “why are you talking about Nazis”.
That said, there's absolutely a racial element to Trump's brand of fascism. He's made it very clear that the other which is infecting the blood of the nation and must be destroyed is foreign and nonwhite. This is kind of like how grandmas call all consoles Nintendos. If you know a bunch about the subject you can chime in and say "actually this is a Playstation which is made by Sony which is a Japanese company whereas Nintendos are made by Nintendo which is also a Japanese company but not the same one". But you don't have to do that, you know what grandma means. "Nazi" is functionally true enough for people who aren't particularly informed about Nazism. It gets you 90% of the way there.
Bolded is important and... wrong. Unless by "gets you 90% of the way there" you mean Trump getting elected. It is so overused that for average person it is white noise. It kinda goes in the same category as: " motherf...r"
Nobody noteworthy said McCain or Romney or H.W. Bush etc. were Nazis. Some people did make some Nazi comparisons to W. Bush, primarily because of the extrajudicial detainment at Guantanamo, but almost nobody noteworthy (except like, I dunno, Keith Olbermann?) was straight-up calling him a fascist.
On the other hand, Trump went full lügenpresse before he was even president, and was saying wildly insane things like Obama literally founded ISIS. Even other Republicans were calling him a Nazi. J.D. Vance verbatim said Trump would be "America's Hitler." His primarily campaign plank was demonizing immigrants, and blaming minorities and "the left" for all the world's problems is a cornerstone of fascist rhetoric.
The "white noise" nonsense is simply untrue and should not be repeated again.
Except it is and nobody gives a damn about someone being called nazi. And you my liberal friend are certainly not someone, who can tell me what I can repeat .
I believe that modern society reached a satiation point where true fundamental disagreements (like how compasionate can you actually be before your psyche deconstructs itself) make it unable to live with each other peacefully and the only way to reconcile our existence is to segregate based on political ideology. The West is infighting continuously like a couple that's unwilling to admit the writing on the wall - because they had at least 15 good years (but maybe they could fix it with a child??). Sometimes seperation is good for every party, or at least the lesser of two evils. Welcome to ideological warfare 2, political boogaloo.
On June 15 2025 07:54 BlackJack wrote: Are you using nazi and fascist interchangeably? I have no problem admitting Trump is fascist though while all nazis are fascists not all fascists are nazis. Unwavering support for Israel is a pretty big "but" in labeling him the brand of fascism infamous for their antisemitism.
My view is that Trump is a fascist. Nazi is a very specific (and when you get into it, very weird) subtype of fascism that has loads of bad biology and Darwinism mashed into it. Whereas Trump is just classic “there was a glorious past but then the enemy within took it away from us and only by ceding all power to the great leader can the enemy be destroyed and the national birthright be restored”. Super fascist but without the crazy “violence is the only real truth and so the only way of telling which scientific theory is correct is to make the competing scientists fight to the death” shit that Nazis do.
Honestly on the Nazi thing you got me with your classic trap. The correct response to you ought not to have been “okay but Nazis totally do that”, even though your point was laughably false and Nazis do totally do that. It ought to have been “why are you talking about Nazis”.
That said, there's absolutely a racial element to Trump's brand of fascism. He's made it very clear that the other which is infecting the blood of the nation and must be destroyed is foreign and nonwhite. This is kind of like how grandmas call all consoles Nintendos. If you know a bunch about the subject you can chime in and say "actually this is a Playstation which is made by Sony which is a Japanese company whereas Nintendos are made by Nintendo which is also a Japanese company but not the same one". But you don't have to do that, you know what grandma means. "Nazi" is functionally true enough for people who aren't particularly informed about Nazism. It gets you 90% of the way there.
Bolded is important and... wrong. Unless by "gets you 90% of the way there" you mean Trump getting elected. It is so overused that for average person it is white noise. It kinda goes in the same category as: " motherf...r"
Nobody noteworthy said McCain or Romney or H.W. Bush etc. were Nazis. Some people did make some Nazi comparisons to W. Bush, primarily because of the extrajudicial detainment at Guantanamo, but almost nobody noteworthy (except like, I dunno, Keith Olbermann?) was straight-up calling him a fascist.
On the other hand, Trump went full lügenpresse before he was even president, and was saying wildly insane things like Obama literally founded ISIS. Even other Republicans were calling him a Nazi. J.D. Vance verbatim said Trump would be "America's Hitler." His primarily campaign plank was demonizing immigrants, and blaming minorities and "the left" for all the world's problems is a cornerstone of fascist rhetoric.
The "white noise" nonsense is simply untrue and should not be repeated again.
Except it is and nobody gives a damn about someone being called nazi. And you my liberal friend are certainly not someone, who can tell me what I can repeat .
On June 15 2025 10:48 KwarK wrote:
It’s not wrong.
Yeah Kwarkie, you have election to prove it is not wrong.
people not caring about nazis doesnt mean there are no nazis. It just means America is a lot more pro-nazi then we thought.
And Trumps second election proves that the US is actually very pro-fascist.
What’s interesting is that I remember growing up in a world where the unifying myth that held the US together was the National narrative around being a beacon of democracy and freedom in the world and a morally superior nation.
It was kind of bs, sure but that still kept at bay the really dark potential in the country’s psyche that are materializing now with MAGA.
On June 15 2025 07:54 BlackJack wrote: Are you using nazi and fascist interchangeably? I have no problem admitting Trump is fascist though while all nazis are fascists not all fascists are nazis. Unwavering support for Israel is a pretty big "but" in labeling him the brand of fascism infamous for their antisemitism.
My view is that Trump is a fascist. Nazi is a very specific (and when you get into it, very weird) subtype of fascism that has loads of bad biology and Darwinism mashed into it. Whereas Trump is just classic “there was a glorious past but then the enemy within took it away from us and only by ceding all power to the great leader can the enemy be destroyed and the national birthright be restored”. Super fascist but without the crazy “violence is the only real truth and so the only way of telling which scientific theory is correct is to make the competing scientists fight to the death” shit that Nazis do.
Honestly on the Nazi thing you got me with your classic trap. The correct response to you ought not to have been “okay but Nazis totally do that”, even though your point was laughably false and Nazis do totally do that. It ought to have been “why are you talking about Nazis”.
That said, there's absolutely a racial element to Trump's brand of fascism. He's made it very clear that the other which is infecting the blood of the nation and must be destroyed is foreign and nonwhite. This is kind of like how grandmas call all consoles Nintendos. If you know a bunch about the subject you can chime in and say "actually this is a Playstation which is made by Sony which is a Japanese company whereas Nintendos are made by Nintendo which is also a Japanese company but not the same one". But you don't have to do that, you know what grandma means. "Nazi" is functionally true enough for people who aren't particularly informed about Nazism. It gets you 90% of the way there.
Bolded is important and... wrong. Unless by "gets you 90% of the way there" you mean Trump getting elected. It is so overused that for average person it is white noise. It kinda goes in the same category as: " motherf...r"
Nobody noteworthy said McCain or Romney or H.W. Bush etc. were Nazis. Some people did make some Nazi comparisons to W. Bush, primarily because of the extrajudicial detainment at Guantanamo, but almost nobody noteworthy (except like, I dunno, Keith Olbermann?) was straight-up calling him a fascist.
On the other hand, Trump went full lügenpresse before he was even president, and was saying wildly insane things like Obama literally founded ISIS. Even other Republicans were calling him a Nazi. J.D. Vance verbatim said Trump would be "America's Hitler." His primarily campaign plank was demonizing immigrants, and blaming minorities and "the left" for all the world's problems is a cornerstone of fascist rhetoric.
The "white noise" nonsense is simply untrue and should not be repeated again.
Except it is and nobody gives a damn about someone being called nazi. And you my liberal friend are certainly not someone, who can tell me what I can repeat .
On June 15 2025 10:48 KwarK wrote:
It’s not wrong.
Yeah Kwarkie, you have election to prove it is not wrong.
people not caring about nazis doesnt mean there are no nazis. It just means America is a lot more pro-nazi then we thought.
And Trumps second election proves that the US is actually very pro-fascist.
What’s interesting is that I remember growing up in a world where the unifying myth that held the US together was the National narrative around being a beacon of democracy and freedom in the world and a morally superior nation.
It was kind of bs, sure but that still kept at bay the really dark potential in the country’s psyche that are materializing now with MAGA.
I think this mentality stems from the time when nations popped up everywhere and it can well be argued that America was leading the charge on liberation. Those days are long over and America has fallen behind on every single metric. And since Trump the US is not just stagnating, but actively regressing. Since after WW2 Europe/EU has been the new "beacon of liberty" (with a few asterisks). Hopefully this direction continues, but there are dark clouds on the horizon...
On June 15 2025 07:35 BlackJack wrote: @MP Can you provide me a citation that Mexicans are deported at a higher rate?
Yes, I'll do that for you. Though I don't understand why you haven't done that research yourself yet. If you need tips on that I'm glad to describe how I generally start my research process online.
In the first paragraph of the very first link that shows up when searching for "are minority groups being deported at a higher rate in the united states" using Microsoft Bing for the search:
Title: Who Gets Deported? Immigrant Removal Rates by National Origin and Period, 1998 to 2021
Most removal proceedings in U.S. immigration courts result in removal, but research has yet to consider how removal rates vary by nationality and period. Using Executive Office of Immigration Review data, the authors examine the removal rates for the 30 most common national-origin groups in removal proceedings. Honduran, Mexican, Guatemalan, and Brazilian nationals have been ordered removed at rates considerably higher than the population average, while Chinese, Albanian, Egyptian, and Ethiopian nationals experience notably low rates of removal. Additionally, the authors find a general decline in removal rates between 1998 and 2021, with a notable jump in removal rates during the Trump administration. Disaggregating removal rates by nationality and period has important implications for understanding disparities in access to legal resources and immigration enforcement practices.
Are you suggesting a greater point here? That US immigration judges are racist against Mexicans but not Ethiopians (and in fact not against most countries)? Is there any "out" of removal rates that you wouldn't have issue with?
I was going to ask the same question as oBlade. Is the evidence for racist immigration policies treating Mexicans as sub-human based on the fact that Africans are allowed to stay at a higher rate? Interesting take to say the least.
One would assume they are less likely to stop an African in the first place because they think they are African-american and it might turn into a shitshow for them?
But more importantly this study considers deportations compared to population size and compares the % between groups.
Albanian, Ethiopian and Egyptian groups are probably comparably tiny compared to south american groups. In the field you will form a bias against the groups that are 90% of your cases and that will inform how you act. You might not be less racist against the Ethiopian but you only see one of those guys a year so you don't look extra for them.
On June 15 2025 19:50 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: One would assume they are less likely to stop an African in the first place because they think they are African-american and it might turn into a shitshow for them?
But more importantly this study considers deportations compared to population size and compares the % between groups.
Albanian, Ethiopian and Egyptian groups are probably comparably tiny compared to south american groups. In the field you will form a bias against the groups that are 90% of your cases and that will inform how you act. You might not be less racist against the Ethiopian but you only see one of those guys a year so you don't look extra for them.
That's not what the stat is measuring.
It's measuring removal orders by country of origin among people already in proceedings.
In that case, under your idea, they ought to be so sure the black guy they actually do get is not an African-American citizen that the statistic would be way above average. Not surprisingly to those of us who didn't assume axiomatic racism, it isn't.
Furthermore, if all the countries had the exact same removal percentage, MP would be arguing the exact same thesis.
Notice the framing is not "Look, Ethiopians are ordered removed less." It's "minorities are deported more than average" despite almost every single ethnicity of each of those countries qualifies as a minority in America and most of them are blue, below average, not orange, above average, in the graph.
Once you have a distribution that's not uniform, you will have things above and below the average.
You say oBlade, how can you say most are below average? Doesn't average mean 50/50? That's median. More of the illegal immigrants by numbers are from Mexico and other South/Central America and they have the most spurious claims to stay despite having broken the law. Trump or the US or ICE didn't choose where the illegal immigrants came from or what color they are.
You would be more likely to accept a persecution or risk of harm claim for someone from Ethiopia because it's Ethiopia and less likely from Mexico because it's Mexico.
EPT
