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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45306 Posts
On April 10 2025 03:51 JimmyJRaynor wrote: The DOW went up 5% in 20 minutes this afternoon. LOL. The S&P 500 rose too, directly after Trump conceded in his little game of economic chicken with some of the countries he stupidly tariffed. It's a relief that he lifted some of the arbitrary taxes that he recently placed on American consumers, but there are still plenty more of other self-inflicted wounds that he needs to heal. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11752 Posts
On April 10 2025 04:14 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: The S&P 500 rose too, directly after Trump conceded in his little game of economic chicken with some of the countries he stupidly tariffed. It's a relief that he lifted some of the arbitrary taxes that he recently placed on American consumers, but there are still plenty more of other self-inflicted wounds that he needs to heal. It would be really, really interesting to see who made some major money on the market these last days. If you were to know what Trump tweets half an hour before he does so, you could make absurd amounts of cash. It wouldn't even be out of character if that was all Trump planned on doing here from the start, making some money on a market he can manipulate like a fiddle. We are talking about a guy who started not one, not two, but at least three different Crypto scamtokens (that i know of) directly mixed with his presidency shit. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45306 Posts
On April 10 2025 04:22 Simberto wrote: It would be really, really interesting to see who made some major money on the market these last days. If you were to know what Trump tweets half an hour before he does so, you could make absurd amounts of cash. It wouldn't even be out of character if that was all Trump planned on doing here from the start, making some money on a market he can manipulate like a fiddle. We are talking about a guy who started not one, not two, but at least three different Crypto scamtokens (that i know of) directly mixed with his presidency shit. Oh absolutely. His first term was stuffed with him abusing his power to gain wealth for himself and his family; I imagine those close to him during his second term are going to love their financial positions too. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26279 Posts
On April 10 2025 04:30 Zambrah wrote: I feel more comfortable than ever in my belief that finance types are a joke and dont deserve to make nearly the money they make. The stock market is a meme coin, all this shit is gambling for rich spreadsheet nerds, money is fake, etc. etc. The stock market is a spook | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4384 Posts
On April 09 2025 17:15 RenSC2 wrote: . That flood of factories leaving China would also take years to get up and running. Do you really think factories are going to pick up and leave China for Thailand and Vietnam when the US will fold the second a non-imbecile takes office? So again, they'll do their best to weather the storm while the US suffers. Long term, they may diversify their manufacturing. Many companies already diversified during covid.Foxxcon just announced a 380 million dollar expansion of its Vietnam factories last year.All already happening and will accelerate.If they have multiple factories over different countries they can easier increase production in the ones outside China. However, they also have an advantage over the USA. America is a huge market, but it's not China's only market. There is no global trade war. It's the USA versus everybody. Everybody else is still trading. In fact, they are making stronger trade deals with each other. China can dump their excess goods on Europe, Canada, Mexico, Australia, South America, Africa, and the rest of Asia for small losses or small profits. Not as lucrative as the US market, but they can stay afloat for quite awhile and they know they just have to wait it out until there are riots in the streets in the US. Dumping products is a great way to get tariffs imposed.The EU imposed tariffs on Chinese EVs what, three months ago? Look for more of it. Anyway basically seems to be unfolding how I said.All tariffs outside China reduced to 10%, 90 day window to make trade deal.Tariffs on China now actually increased to 125%.That extra $1000 on the iPhone price is now $1250, good luck with that.China needs to do a deal pronto or we will see some incredibly rapid deindustrialization. | ||
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SC-Shield
Bulgaria837 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15737 Posts
China is an adversary and I want them to be crushed the same way I want Russia to be crushed. If we can harm China more than we harm ourselves, I’m on board. It’s a necessary evil and the problem doesn’t go away if we do nothing. This could also end up throwing a wrench in China taking Taiwan. If this belligerent trade war with China prevents them from having the flexibility to take Taiwan, that in itself is a major benefit. Perhaps a lesser cost than the cost of defending Taiwan. Ultimately I think it’s not just devils advocate to say the China issue can’t just keep getting kicked down the road. If there’s no way to address China without some level of price to pay, we ought to simply pay that price and accept it. I am by no means an expert in economics but my understanding has been China can’t take Taiwan unless they’re in a fairly robust and stable financial position going into it. They will be burning a lot of political capital and likely enduring a lot of harm if they do it. It feels like a trade war is exactly the kinda thing that prevents Taiwan from being taken. | ||
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oBlade
United States5903 Posts
Lamenting billionaires for not pressuring the president more into not destroying them is the funniest sentiment I've seen in a post-2008 world. | ||
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Doublemint
Austria8708 Posts
"Trump says he reversed tariffs because people were ‘a little bit yippy’ and ‘afraid’" a little bit yippy and afraid... this would be a moment when one could potentially ask himself if the wrong one won the cold war. or if china #1 would be so bad. /edit... and they changed it as it is a liveticker... but it is still there what he said further down. the great negotiator word for word Trump said he paused the imposition of higher tariffs on many countries because people “were getting a little bit yippy.” “Well, I thought that people were jumping a little bit out of line,” Trump told reporters at the White House. “They were getting yippy, you know, they were getting a little bit yippy, a little bit afraid, unlike these champions, because we have a big job to do,” the president said while standing with auto racing champions. “No other president would have done what I did. No other president,” he said. “And it had to be done.” Trump later said, “You have to have flexibility” in policies. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States45306 Posts
On April 10 2025 05:08 Doublemint wrote: the headline on cnbc "Trump says he reversed tariffs because people were ‘a little bit yippy’ and ‘afraid’" a little bit yippy and afraid... this would be a moment when one could potentially ask himself if the wrong one won the cold war. or if china #1 would be so bad. /edit... and they changed it as it is a liveticker... but it is still there what he said further down. the great negotiator word for word I love when Trump says "No other president would have done what I did", because sometimes he's ironically correct... except usually he means it as a brag or a courageous act, when in reality the reason why it's true is because most other presidents were not as monumentally stupid, hateful, or terrible as Trump. | ||
Falling
Canada11426 Posts
On April 10 2025 03:44 JimmyJRaynor wrote: I hope Trump putting Bessent out there is his signal to the world that he is not the crazy man he has pretended to be the past few months. I do not believe Howard Lutnick believes any of the stuff he has been saying for the past few weeks. It is time for Canada to put American products back on store shelves and get to the bargaining table. There's no rush. By the time everyone sits down to meet, the stock market will have recovered enough that Trump will try another round of tariffs or crow about how he's going to 51st State us. Bit of a hassle to keep stocking and restocking the shelves dependent on which side of the bed he gets up in the morning. The man is looping more and more in his speeches and now his actions are looping. We can wait and see just how temporary his pause is. We've already seen this rodeo before and not too long ago either. Going to a few long years of Groundhog Day with this muppet. | ||
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SC-Shield
Bulgaria837 Posts
On April 10 2025 04:49 Mohdoo wrote: I’m way more on board with the idea of a great deal of pain and difficulty so long as it truly harms China. Especially since a targeted approach to China is way less damaging than just blasting the whole world. China is an adversary and I want them to be crushed the same way I want Russia to be crushed. If we can harm China more than we harm ourselves, I’m on board. It’s a necessary evil and the problem doesn’t go away if we do nothing. This could also end up throwing a wrench in China taking Taiwan. If this belligerent trade war with China prevents them from having the flexibility to take Taiwan, that in itself is a major benefit. Perhaps a lesser cost than the cost of defending Taiwan. Ultimately I think it’s not just devils advocate to say the China issue can’t just keep getting kicked down the road. If there’s no way to address China without some level of price to pay, we ought to simply pay that price and accept it. I am by no means an expert in economics but my understanding has been China can’t take Taiwan unless they’re in a fairly robust and stable financial position going into it. They will be burning a lot of political capital and likely enduring a lot of harm if they do it. It feels like a trade war is exactly the kinda thing that prevents Taiwan from being taken. So what's your vision of US? Should US become a shoes/clothes/etc factory of the world instead of high tech country? Or do you simply want to replace China with India/other country to produce? Even in my country there aren't a lot of volunteers for this kind of low paying job, I can't imagine why US would want that. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15737 Posts
On April 10 2025 05:22 SC-Shield wrote: So what's your vision of US? Should US become a shoes/clothes/etc factory of the world instead of high tech country? Or do you simply want to replace China with India/other country to produce? Even in my country there aren't a lot of volunteers for this kind of low paying job, I can't imagine why US would want that. I don't see a huge need for the US to become a hub for clothing. But I do see a huge need for the US to become a hub for pharmaceuticals, technology, and materials associated with those. I don't like the argument against globalization being often boiled down to Americans knitting sweaters. We can admit globalization went way too far and our planet is way over-specialized without seeking absolute isolation. Broadly speaking, as much as people like to pout over it, the existence of a broad and powerful hegemony has a great number of benefits and overall helps the world enormously. Plenty of examples where the opposite is true, but I think its worth noting the post-cold war world has been deeply prosperous. I truly would not mind whether China or Russia instead managed a prosperous world hegemony instead of the US. But I do mind the process of the existing hegemony being dethroned because that would be amazingly messy for everyone. I really dislike the tension between super powers and I see a lot of harm in Russia and China nipping at the heels of the US. I think it creates a great deal of inefficiency and harm. I also think its deeply bad faith when people imply either China or Russia having the keys to the world hegemony would be some massive improvement to global society. Especially because, like I mentioned, getting rid of the existing one would not be a simple or bloodless process. I broadly reject the idea that the world benefits from having 3 powers competing with each other, as if its some kinda market thing. I think it is healthy for a lot of the world to be powerful enough to where the US can't just dominate them, but genuine competition between the big 3 nations is strictly bad for everyone. If a trade war against China ends up diminishing their ability to project influence and take Taiwan, I support it. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22103 Posts
On April 10 2025 04:56 oBlade wrote: Yet another reminder that the last time Trump tried a tariff war with China he had to bailout farmers for 23 billion.The 90-day pause is probably a combination of treasuries spiking which was not part of the plan, countries (hopefully with companies on board) actually reasonably flocking to renegotiate in good faith which does take time and isn't instant, with varying degrees of facesaving, the fact that the blunt numbers did lack certain details/nuance (though weren't entirely bereft, like the de minimis targeting of China), and China's subsequent choices leading to mutual retaliation and focusing on isolating China. Lamenting billionaires for not pressuring the president more into not destroying them is the funniest sentiment I've seen in a post-2008 world. Trump lost round 1 vs China, he is going to lose round 2. China can keep this up a lot longer. | ||
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KwarK
United States43609 Posts
On April 10 2025 04:49 Mohdoo wrote: I’m way more on board with the idea of a great deal of pain and difficulty so long as it truly harms China. Especially since a targeted approach to China is way less damaging than just blasting the whole world. China is an adversary and I want them to be crushed the same way I want Russia to be crushed. If we can harm China more than we harm ourselves, I’m on board. It’s a necessary evil and the problem doesn’t go away if we do nothing. This could also end up throwing a wrench in China taking Taiwan. If this belligerent trade war with China prevents them from having the flexibility to take Taiwan, that in itself is a major benefit. Perhaps a lesser cost than the cost of defending Taiwan. Ultimately I think it’s not just devils advocate to say the China issue can’t just keep getting kicked down the road. If there’s no way to address China without some level of price to pay, we ought to simply pay that price and accept it. I am by no means an expert in economics but my understanding has been China can’t take Taiwan unless they’re in a fairly robust and stable financial position going into it. They will be burning a lot of political capital and likely enduring a lot of harm if they do it. It feels like a trade war is exactly the kinda thing that prevents Taiwan from being taken. Opposite. Dependence on the US for things like food is part of the leverage that keeps the peace. | ||
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oBlade
United States5903 Posts
On April 10 2025 05:36 Gorsameth wrote: Yet another reminder that the last time Trump tried a tariff war with China he had to bailout farmers for 23 billion. Trump lost round 1 vs China, he is going to lose round 2. China can keep this up a lot longer. Trust me I know of Trump's leftist leanings and his lack of hesitance when it comes to spending or subsidizing. Sucks about farming - perhaps our neighbors could allow free trade and buy more dairy instead of quotas on both domestic and foreign dairy. Do China and the US compete in any industries besides farming by chance? | ||
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KwarK
United States43609 Posts
I said to them, was there any sign of love? Did the, Hamas, show any signs of like, help? Or liking you? Did they wink? Did they give you a piece of bread extra? Did they give you a meal on the side? … Like, you know, what happened in Germany? | ||
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KwarK
United States43609 Posts
On April 10 2025 05:52 oBlade wrote: Trust me I know of Trump's leftist leanings and his lack of hesitance when it comes to spending or subsidizing. Sucks about farming - perhaps our neighbors could allow free trade and buy more dairy instead of quotas on both domestic and foreign dairy. Do China and the US compete in any industries besides farming by chance? Hold on, you want your neighbours to allow free trade but you also want them to buy dairy which is incredibly subsidized in the US? Which is it? Free trade or subsidies? | ||
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CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2715 Posts
On April 10 2025 05:52 oBlade wrote: Trust me I know of Trump's leftist leanings and his lack of hesitance when it comes to spending or subsidizing. Sucks about farming - perhaps our neighbors could allow free trade and buy more dairy instead of quotas on both domestic and foreign dairy. Do China and the US compete in any industries besides farming by chance? Hmmm... President Donald Trump correctly noted Friday, as he has before, that Canada has tariffs above 200% on dairy products imported from the US. But Trump again failed to mention a critical fact. Those high tariffs kick in only after the US has hit a certain Trump-negotiated quantity of tariff-free dairy sales to Canada each year – and as the US dairy industry acknowledges, the US is not hitting its allowed zero-tariff maximum in any category of dairy product. In many categories, notably including milk, the US is not even at half of the zero-tariff maximum. “In practice, these tariffs are not actually paid by anyone,” Al Mussell, an expert on Canadian agricultural trade, said in an email Friday. | ||
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