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On April 10 2025 05:56 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2025 05:52 oBlade wrote:On April 10 2025 05:36 Gorsameth wrote:On April 10 2025 04:56 oBlade wrote:
The 90-day pause is probably a combination of treasuries spiking which was not part of the plan, countries (hopefully with companies on board) actually reasonably flocking to renegotiate in good faith which does take time and isn't instant, with varying degrees of facesaving, the fact that the blunt numbers did lack certain details/nuance (though weren't entirely bereft, like the de minimis targeting of China), and China's subsequent choices leading to mutual retaliation and focusing on isolating China.
Lamenting billionaires for not pressuring the president more into not destroying them is the funniest sentiment I've seen in a post-2008 world. Yet another reminder that the last time Trump tried a tariff war with China he had to bailout farmers for 23 billion. Trump lost round 1 vs China, he is going to lose round 2. China can keep this up a lot longer. Trust me I know of Trump's leftist leanings and his lack of hesitance when it comes to spending or subsidizing. Sucks about farming - perhaps our neighbors could allow free trade and buy more dairy instead of quotas on both domestic and foreign dairy. Do China and the US compete in any industries besides farming by chance? Hmmm... Show nested quote +President Donald Trump correctly noted Friday, as he has before, that Canada has tariffs above 200% on dairy products imported from the US. But Trump again failed to mention a critical fact.
Those high tariffs kick in only after the US has hit a certain Trump-negotiated quantity of tariff-free dairy sales to Canada each year – and as the US dairy industry acknowledges, the US is not hitting its allowed zero-tariff maximum in any category of dairy product.
In many categories, notably including milk, the US is not even at half of the zero-tariff maximum.
“In practice, these tariffs are not actually paid by anyone,” Al Mussell, an expert on Canadian agricultural trade, said in an email Friday.
This is not a revelation. That's the point of the maximum. To block too much dairy coming in. That's the point.
Imagine you have a police sniper on every highway that headshots every driver going 1mph over the speed limit.
Obviously drivers are not going to even approach the speed limit.
What does that show? That the police are not necessary because the drivers are nowhere close to the speed limit? That drivers don't want to or can't drive faster? Do you have any point behind reposting the factual policy?
Ask yourself an honest question - take away Canada's domestic quotas and blocking tariffs, you think US exports more or less or the same amount of dairy? If the answer is more then you understand the issue with deficits because on balance across all industries that situation happens more than the reverse.
If the answer is less or the same, explain your rigorous thought process to me other than "hmmm" so I can know why I'm wrong.
China floods markets with cheap products but that benefits everyone in the first world because we can get it cheaper and be more prosperous. But Canada needs the right to protect itself from cheap American milk because the US manipulates with subsidies...
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On April 10 2025 05:54 KwarK wrote:Today made the argument that Hamas were worse than the Nazis because Hamas hate Jews unlike the Nazis who treated them with love. Show nested quote +I said to them, was there any sign of love? Did the, Hamas, show any signs of like, help? Or liking you? Did they wink? Did they give you a piece of bread extra? Did they give you a meal on the side? … Like, you know, what happened in Germany?
Wasn't sure if this was going to be Netanyahu reprising his "Hitler didn't want to exterminate the Jews" or Trump that said this.
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On April 10 2025 06:08 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2025 05:56 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On April 10 2025 05:52 oBlade wrote:On April 10 2025 05:36 Gorsameth wrote:On April 10 2025 04:56 oBlade wrote:
The 90-day pause is probably a combination of treasuries spiking which was not part of the plan, countries (hopefully with companies on board) actually reasonably flocking to renegotiate in good faith which does take time and isn't instant, with varying degrees of facesaving, the fact that the blunt numbers did lack certain details/nuance (though weren't entirely bereft, like the de minimis targeting of China), and China's subsequent choices leading to mutual retaliation and focusing on isolating China.
Lamenting billionaires for not pressuring the president more into not destroying them is the funniest sentiment I've seen in a post-2008 world. Yet another reminder that the last time Trump tried a tariff war with China he had to bailout farmers for 23 billion. Trump lost round 1 vs China, he is going to lose round 2. China can keep this up a lot longer. Trust me I know of Trump's leftist leanings and his lack of hesitance when it comes to spending or subsidizing. Sucks about farming - perhaps our neighbors could allow free trade and buy more dairy instead of quotas on both domestic and foreign dairy. Do China and the US compete in any industries besides farming by chance? Hmmm... President Donald Trump correctly noted Friday, as he has before, that Canada has tariffs above 200% on dairy products imported from the US. But Trump again failed to mention a critical fact.
Those high tariffs kick in only after the US has hit a certain Trump-negotiated quantity of tariff-free dairy sales to Canada each year – and as the US dairy industry acknowledges, the US is not hitting its allowed zero-tariff maximum in any category of dairy product.
In many categories, notably including milk, the US is not even at half of the zero-tariff maximum.
“In practice, these tariffs are not actually paid by anyone,” Al Mussell, an expert on Canadian agricultural trade, said in an email Friday. This is not a revelation. That's the point of the maximum. To block too much dairy coming in. That's the point. Imagine you have a police sniper on every highway that headshots every driver going 1mph over the speed limit. Obviously drivers are not going to even approach the speed limit. What does that show? That the police are not necessary because the drivers are nowhere close to the speed limit? That drivers don't want to or can't drive faster? Do you have any point behind reposting the factual policy? Ask yourself an honest question - take away Canada's domestic quotas and blocking tariffs, you think US exports more or less or the same amount of dairy? If the answer is more then you understand the issue with deficits because on balance across all industries that situation happens more than the reverse. If the answer is less or the same, explain your rigorous thought process to me other than "hmmm" so I can know why I'm wrong. China floods markets with cheap products but that benefits everyone in the first world because we can get it cheaper and be more prosperous. But Canada needs the right to protect itself from cheap American milk because the US manipulates with subsidies...
It was yesterday where I gave you the information about Canadian Dairy. So it is either that you are an active troll who just wants to fight on a gaming site political forum fact free. Or you actively ignore facts so that your angry and frankly stupid world view can stay intact. Either way it is very sad.
Not that I should be surprised, but you had a moment here where you could have taken stock and realized that most of the shit you believe is made up garbage. (or you don't believe it but love the drama). Either way, somehow you have managed to be worse than the guy who has multiple versions of himself and spends most of his time complimenting himself and putting down anyone silly enough to engage.
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On April 10 2025 06:08 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2025 05:56 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On April 10 2025 05:52 oBlade wrote:On April 10 2025 05:36 Gorsameth wrote:On April 10 2025 04:56 oBlade wrote:
The 90-day pause is probably a combination of treasuries spiking which was not part of the plan, countries (hopefully with companies on board) actually reasonably flocking to renegotiate in good faith which does take time and isn't instant, with varying degrees of facesaving, the fact that the blunt numbers did lack certain details/nuance (though weren't entirely bereft, like the de minimis targeting of China), and China's subsequent choices leading to mutual retaliation and focusing on isolating China.
Lamenting billionaires for not pressuring the president more into not destroying them is the funniest sentiment I've seen in a post-2008 world. Yet another reminder that the last time Trump tried a tariff war with China he had to bailout farmers for 23 billion. Trump lost round 1 vs China, he is going to lose round 2. China can keep this up a lot longer. Trust me I know of Trump's leftist leanings and his lack of hesitance when it comes to spending or subsidizing. Sucks about farming - perhaps our neighbors could allow free trade and buy more dairy instead of quotas on both domestic and foreign dairy. Do China and the US compete in any industries besides farming by chance? Hmmm... President Donald Trump correctly noted Friday, as he has before, that Canada has tariffs above 200% on dairy products imported from the US. But Trump again failed to mention a critical fact.
Those high tariffs kick in only after the US has hit a certain Trump-negotiated quantity of tariff-free dairy sales to Canada each year – and as the US dairy industry acknowledges, the US is not hitting its allowed zero-tariff maximum in any category of dairy product.
In many categories, notably including milk, the US is not even at half of the zero-tariff maximum.
“In practice, these tariffs are not actually paid by anyone,” Al Mussell, an expert on Canadian agricultural trade, said in an email Friday. This is not a revelation. That's the point of the maximum. To block too much dairy coming in. That's the point. Imagine you have a police sniper on every highway that headshots every driver going 1mph over the speed limit. Obviously drivers are not going to even approach the speed limit. What does that show? That the police are not necessary because the drivers are nowhere close to the speed limit? That drivers don't want to or can't drive faster? Do you have any point behind reposting the factual policy? Ask yourself an honest question - take away Canada's domestic quotas and blocking tariffs, you think US exports more or less or the same amount of dairy? If the answer is more then you understand the issue with deficits because on balance across all industries that situation happens more than the reverse. If the answer is less or the same, explain your rigorous thought process to me other than "hmmm" so I can know why I'm wrong. China floods markets with cheap products but that benefits everyone in the first world because we can get it cheaper and be more prosperous. But Canada needs the right to protect itself from cheap American milk because the US manipulates with subsidies...
There is not a single country on earth that want to get to a point where it can't feed itself. Even if "feed" itself will result in incredibly bleak and rationed food.
The point of the cap is obviously so that the US can't obliterate Candas dairy production but still be able to sell a lot of their excess.
Yes, over time US production would likely increase to take over the Canadian market.
You think Trump would go on less about the 51st state shit if Canada didn't have domestic food production?
I imagine he would threaten starvation if they didn't submit.
If you are honestly so dumb you don't grasp the concept of strategic industries... (even Trump does...)
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On April 10 2025 06:32 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2025 06:08 oBlade wrote:On April 10 2025 05:56 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On April 10 2025 05:52 oBlade wrote:On April 10 2025 05:36 Gorsameth wrote:On April 10 2025 04:56 oBlade wrote:
The 90-day pause is probably a combination of treasuries spiking which was not part of the plan, countries (hopefully with companies on board) actually reasonably flocking to renegotiate in good faith which does take time and isn't instant, with varying degrees of facesaving, the fact that the blunt numbers did lack certain details/nuance (though weren't entirely bereft, like the de minimis targeting of China), and China's subsequent choices leading to mutual retaliation and focusing on isolating China.
Lamenting billionaires for not pressuring the president more into not destroying them is the funniest sentiment I've seen in a post-2008 world. Yet another reminder that the last time Trump tried a tariff war with China he had to bailout farmers for 23 billion. Trump lost round 1 vs China, he is going to lose round 2. China can keep this up a lot longer. Trust me I know of Trump's leftist leanings and his lack of hesitance when it comes to spending or subsidizing. Sucks about farming - perhaps our neighbors could allow free trade and buy more dairy instead of quotas on both domestic and foreign dairy. Do China and the US compete in any industries besides farming by chance? Hmmm... President Donald Trump correctly noted Friday, as he has before, that Canada has tariffs above 200% on dairy products imported from the US. But Trump again failed to mention a critical fact.
Those high tariffs kick in only after the US has hit a certain Trump-negotiated quantity of tariff-free dairy sales to Canada each year – and as the US dairy industry acknowledges, the US is not hitting its allowed zero-tariff maximum in any category of dairy product.
In many categories, notably including milk, the US is not even at half of the zero-tariff maximum.
“In practice, these tariffs are not actually paid by anyone,” Al Mussell, an expert on Canadian agricultural trade, said in an email Friday. This is not a revelation. That's the point of the maximum. To block too much dairy coming in. That's the point. Imagine you have a police sniper on every highway that headshots every driver going 1mph over the speed limit. Obviously drivers are not going to even approach the speed limit. What does that show? That the police are not necessary because the drivers are nowhere close to the speed limit? That drivers don't want to or can't drive faster? Do you have any point behind reposting the factual policy? Ask yourself an honest question - take away Canada's domestic quotas and blocking tariffs, you think US exports more or less or the same amount of dairy? If the answer is more then you understand the issue with deficits because on balance across all industries that situation happens more than the reverse. If the answer is less or the same, explain your rigorous thought process to me other than "hmmm" so I can know why I'm wrong. China floods markets with cheap products but that benefits everyone in the first world because we can get it cheaper and be more prosperous. But Canada needs the right to protect itself from cheap American milk because the US manipulates with subsidies... There is not a single country on earth that want to get to a point where it can't feed itself. Even if "feed" itself will result in incredibly bleak and rationed food. The point of the cap is obviously so that the US can't obliterate Candas dairy production but still be able to sell a lot of their excess. Yes, over time US production would likely increase to take over the Canadian market. You think Trump would go on less about the 51st state shit if Canada didn't have domestic food production? I imagine he would threaten starvation if they didn't submit. If you are honestly so dumb you don't grasp the concept of strategic industries... (even Trump does...)
You’re moving the goalposts. Your argument was that Canadian tariffs on the US are insignificant because the cap hasn’t been hit where they even go into effect. oBaldes counter point was that the existence of the cap alone is enough to limit the dairy product into Canada. Now you’re saying the barrier is necessary because Canada has to protect its ability to feed itself. It’s a fine argument but you’ve contradicted yourself. You can’t argue that Canada needs trade barriers to protect itself if your initial claim was that there were no barriers because the cap wasn’t hit.
Edit: on 2nd reading it looks like you weren’t saying Canada has no trade barriers just that Trump omitted crucial information when describing those barriers
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United States42656 Posts
On April 10 2025 06:38 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2025 06:32 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On April 10 2025 06:08 oBlade wrote:On April 10 2025 05:56 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On April 10 2025 05:52 oBlade wrote:On April 10 2025 05:36 Gorsameth wrote:On April 10 2025 04:56 oBlade wrote:
The 90-day pause is probably a combination of treasuries spiking which was not part of the plan, countries (hopefully with companies on board) actually reasonably flocking to renegotiate in good faith which does take time and isn't instant, with varying degrees of facesaving, the fact that the blunt numbers did lack certain details/nuance (though weren't entirely bereft, like the de minimis targeting of China), and China's subsequent choices leading to mutual retaliation and focusing on isolating China.
Lamenting billionaires for not pressuring the president more into not destroying them is the funniest sentiment I've seen in a post-2008 world. Yet another reminder that the last time Trump tried a tariff war with China he had to bailout farmers for 23 billion. Trump lost round 1 vs China, he is going to lose round 2. China can keep this up a lot longer. Trust me I know of Trump's leftist leanings and his lack of hesitance when it comes to spending or subsidizing. Sucks about farming - perhaps our neighbors could allow free trade and buy more dairy instead of quotas on both domestic and foreign dairy. Do China and the US compete in any industries besides farming by chance? Hmmm... President Donald Trump correctly noted Friday, as he has before, that Canada has tariffs above 200% on dairy products imported from the US. But Trump again failed to mention a critical fact.
Those high tariffs kick in only after the US has hit a certain Trump-negotiated quantity of tariff-free dairy sales to Canada each year – and as the US dairy industry acknowledges, the US is not hitting its allowed zero-tariff maximum in any category of dairy product.
In many categories, notably including milk, the US is not even at half of the zero-tariff maximum.
“In practice, these tariffs are not actually paid by anyone,” Al Mussell, an expert on Canadian agricultural trade, said in an email Friday. This is not a revelation. That's the point of the maximum. To block too much dairy coming in. That's the point. Imagine you have a police sniper on every highway that headshots every driver going 1mph over the speed limit. Obviously drivers are not going to even approach the speed limit. What does that show? That the police are not necessary because the drivers are nowhere close to the speed limit? That drivers don't want to or can't drive faster? Do you have any point behind reposting the factual policy? Ask yourself an honest question - take away Canada's domestic quotas and blocking tariffs, you think US exports more or less or the same amount of dairy? If the answer is more then you understand the issue with deficits because on balance across all industries that situation happens more than the reverse. If the answer is less or the same, explain your rigorous thought process to me other than "hmmm" so I can know why I'm wrong. China floods markets with cheap products but that benefits everyone in the first world because we can get it cheaper and be more prosperous. But Canada needs the right to protect itself from cheap American milk because the US manipulates with subsidies... There is not a single country on earth that want to get to a point where it can't feed itself. Even if "feed" itself will result in incredibly bleak and rationed food. The point of the cap is obviously so that the US can't obliterate Candas dairy production but still be able to sell a lot of their excess. Yes, over time US production would likely increase to take over the Canadian market. You think Trump would go on less about the 51st state shit if Canada didn't have domestic food production? I imagine he would threaten starvation if they didn't submit. If you are honestly so dumb you don't grasp the concept of strategic industries... (even Trump does...) You’re moving the goalposts. Your argument was that Canadian tariffs on the US are insignificant because the cap hasn’t been hit where they even go into effect. oBaldes counter point was that the existence of the cap alone is enough to limit the dairy product into Canada. Now you’re saying the barrier is necessary because Canada has to protect its ability to feed itself. It’s a fine argument but you’ve contradicted yourself. You can’t argue that Canada needs trade barriers to protect itself if your initial claim was that there were no barriers because the cap wasn’t hit. Edit: on 2nd reading it looks like you weren’t saying Canada has no trade barriers just that Trump omitted crucial information when describing those barriers
The US has large farm subsidies that would cripple farms in other countries if they did not engage in any protectionism. The US is not asking for free trade, they’re completely unwilling to engage in free trade, they’re asking to dump surplus subsidized production on someone else’s industry.
Oblade’s framing this as a free trade issue completely ignores that there is nothing free about US dairy.
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On April 10 2025 06:08 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2025 05:56 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On April 10 2025 05:52 oBlade wrote:On April 10 2025 05:36 Gorsameth wrote:On April 10 2025 04:56 oBlade wrote:
The 90-day pause is probably a combination of treasuries spiking which was not part of the plan, countries (hopefully with companies on board) actually reasonably flocking to renegotiate in good faith which does take time and isn't instant, with varying degrees of facesaving, the fact that the blunt numbers did lack certain details/nuance (though weren't entirely bereft, like the de minimis targeting of China), and China's subsequent choices leading to mutual retaliation and focusing on isolating China.
Lamenting billionaires for not pressuring the president more into not destroying them is the funniest sentiment I've seen in a post-2008 world. Yet another reminder that the last time Trump tried a tariff war with China he had to bailout farmers for 23 billion. Trump lost round 1 vs China, he is going to lose round 2. China can keep this up a lot longer. Trust me I know of Trump's leftist leanings and his lack of hesitance when it comes to spending or subsidizing. Sucks about farming - perhaps our neighbors could allow free trade and buy more dairy instead of quotas on both domestic and foreign dairy. Do China and the US compete in any industries besides farming by chance? Hmmm... President Donald Trump correctly noted Friday, as he has before, that Canada has tariffs above 200% on dairy products imported from the US. But Trump again failed to mention a critical fact.
Those high tariffs kick in only after the US has hit a certain Trump-negotiated quantity of tariff-free dairy sales to Canada each year – and as the US dairy industry acknowledges, the US is not hitting its allowed zero-tariff maximum in any category of dairy product.
In many categories, notably including milk, the US is not even at half of the zero-tariff maximum.
“In practice, these tariffs are not actually paid by anyone,” Al Mussell, an expert on Canadian agricultural trade, said in an email Friday. This is not a revelation. That's the point of the maximum. To block too much dairy coming in. That's the point. Imagine you have a police sniper on every highway that headshots every driver going 1mph over the speed limit. Obviously drivers are not going to even approach the speed limit. What does that show? That the police are not necessary because the drivers are nowhere close to the speed limit? That drivers don't want to or can't drive faster? Do you have any point behind reposting the factual policy? Ask yourself an honest question - take away Canada's domestic quotas and blocking tariffs, you think US exports more or less or the same amount of dairy? If the answer is more then you understand the issue with deficits because on balance across all industries that situation happens more than the reverse. If the answer is less or the same, explain your rigorous thought process to me other than "hmmm" so I can know why I'm wrong. China floods markets with cheap products but that benefits everyone in the first world because we can get it cheaper and be more prosperous. But Canada needs the right to protect itself from cheap American milk because the US manipulates with subsidies...
I've seen some politicians push for a 100% free trade agreement between the USA and Canada. I think that's a bad idea. I work for a company that does a lot of work for companies in your country. We buy and sell to companies in your country. I regularly travel to your country. I have friends and family in your country. However, our countries are quite different. 100% free trade on all goods would be a disaster to us here in Canada. I'll try to explain why using the dairy industry as an example (as this one has been thrown into the spotlight), although it does apply to some other key industries too.
In Canada, we regulate our dairy industry pretty heavily. We know how many people live in certain areas, and can estimate how much dairy products people will need. This, in turn, allows our government to regulate our dairy production to meet that demand. We aim to produce that amount to minimize the amount of waste. We do this to keep prices stable, so our people can go into any grocery store and be confident that the price of milk, cheese, yogurt, and many other goods have predictable and stable prices. On average and over the long term these prices will be slightly higher than they would have been without this regulation. But they will be stable. Your country not just regulates the industry less (we ban growth hormones and antibiotics as an example), but you also subsidize the industry. The prices are lower, but also, there can be fluctuations in the market which are due in part to the less-strict regulations.
We may share similar values to your country, but we also do make concessions to try to help out our fellow citizens that your country does not, and making sure that people have an easier and more reliable time feeding their families is important to us. Ensuring that small businesses like bakeries or restaurants that can't reach out to foreign markets can reliably get these key products is important to us. We voted for politicians that created and maintained these regulations and agencies that enforce these regulations for decades, and I do not see that changing. Calls by politicians for changing this is not popular in our country.
Additionally, as we limit farm sizes and have stricter controls regarding transfer of livestock, we reduce the likelihood of a disease causing issues, and also mitigating how big of an issue it becomes by ensuring our farms are spread out. We do occasionally have issues, but they have never been as impactful as the issues your equivalent industries have had. A good example of that is the price and availability of eggs in your country. The regulations in your country allowed this problem to have a much bigger impact.
On it's own, this would mean that we should be able to trade fairly with the USA. And we absolutely should. We make an appropriate amount for our country, so we should be able to fairly balance trade. We should be able to ship out some of our products and import yours, enabling both of us to have greater access to more varieties of quality products that we both produce.
The problem lies in the sheer difference of scale of our two countries. Yours is approximately 10x the size of ours. Your dairy industry is 10x the size of ours.
If we messed up our system and produced 5% extra, we would obviously be looking to be a net exporter of 5% of what we produce, to prevent waste or an impact to our local markets. With the USA as a trading partner, this would be the equivalent of dumping 0.5% of what you produce into your markets. This would barely even register in your markets. However, consider the reverse. If your country, with far less strict regulations, produced 5% more than you consumed, you would be looking at exporting 5% of what you produce. If this was all directed towards us, this would be closer to 50% of our entire country's production. This would absolutely devastate our own farms and our industry.
Similarly, if we produced 5% less than our market demanded, we would be looking to be a net importer of 5%. This would be the equivalent of 0.5% of your production, which also would barely even register in your markets. Again, considering the reverse, if your country produced 5% less than you consumed, you would be looking to import 50% of our entire country's production to even that out.
This is why some limits on trade is important to us. And in return, I would fully expect a reciprocal equivalent tariff, to ensure that neither side can abuse the other. I'd also completely understand a reverse situation where Canada could completely overwhelm the American market, and it would be important for the USA to put limits or tariffs on Canadian goods to protect the American market. I haven't seen any examples that look like good opportunities for this, however, simply due to the scale difference between our countries.
I have seen arguments regarding the auto industry. Do you even know why Canada doesn't have any car brands? Because for decades, we've basically shared this as an industry. Both our countries have an intertwined industry around it. We have factories building parts all the way from the smallest nuts and bolts, to final assembly plants producing a variety of cars, SUVs, and trucks. Even the Ford GT, the car that Ford brought back to win LeMans again, was built in Canada. This intertwined relationship has led to a lot of investment on both sides of the border, which led to a lot of jobs for us both, and cheaper prices. Whoever can build a part cheaper in a supply chain, whether Canadian or American, ends up getting the contract, and that helps keep the prices down for us both. Messing this up is going to cause prices to increase for domestic vehicles, which will make foreign cars more appealing. Maybe the USA gets around this by keeping tariffs on foreign cars, but at least for Canada, we're going to end up either buying foreign, or getting more foreign investment into building them in Canada for the Canadian market. Canada's market of ~40 million people buys millions of cars each year. We produce materials used to make millions of cars each year. We have factories building parts for millions of cars each year. We have final assembly plants that build millions of cars each year. On paper, the industry is not anywhere near as unbalanced as some of the rhetoric we've seen from the current administration, and the auto taxes are just making it worse. I really don't think it's good for either of our countries to make it more difficult for a market of 40 million to buy from what used to be a combined north american industry. And it's one that I worked for. I worked for a Ford dealership in service for 6.5 years, and I also worked in a variety of factories building car parts. I've worked in several factories that built parts from the drivetrain components to bumpers.
Tariffs after a certain quantity on some of these products is necessary for us. I think trade between our two countries has been part of what has made us great in the past, and I hope we can continue it in the future. However, you also need to recognize that your country is in an incredibly privileged position, and has already greatly benefited from our existing trade agreement. You get a bunch of raw goods, often at a discount compared to global market rates, as it's easier for us to sell them to you than anyone else. In return, we buy a lot of finished goods from the USA. Those are often good manufacturing jobs that we could have realistically had here in Canada, but we are kinda dumb and put up interprovincial trade barriers that used to make it easier to deal with the USA than people in our own country.....
There are plenty of benefits of free trade for both of our countries, however, a 100% free trade with no limitations is not something that our country should or even could realistically agree with, as it produces a massive and unacceptable risk to our country due to our size difference. NAFTA, and then CUSMA both did a good job ensuring most products were able to be traded freely between our countries, while key industries had the protections they required. I believe your politicians should push to return to this instead of 100% free trade, which I have been seeing suggested by members in your government. I'm sure CUSMA could be improved through negotiation, but these current tariffs are hurting the relationship between our countries. And the longer it keeps up like this, the longer it will take to return to normal.
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On April 10 2025 06:38 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2025 06:32 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On April 10 2025 06:08 oBlade wrote:On April 10 2025 05:56 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On April 10 2025 05:52 oBlade wrote:On April 10 2025 05:36 Gorsameth wrote:On April 10 2025 04:56 oBlade wrote:
The 90-day pause is probably a combination of treasuries spiking which was not part of the plan, countries (hopefully with companies on board) actually reasonably flocking to renegotiate in good faith which does take time and isn't instant, with varying degrees of facesaving, the fact that the blunt numbers did lack certain details/nuance (though weren't entirely bereft, like the de minimis targeting of China), and China's subsequent choices leading to mutual retaliation and focusing on isolating China.
Lamenting billionaires for not pressuring the president more into not destroying them is the funniest sentiment I've seen in a post-2008 world. Yet another reminder that the last time Trump tried a tariff war with China he had to bailout farmers for 23 billion. Trump lost round 1 vs China, he is going to lose round 2. China can keep this up a lot longer. Trust me I know of Trump's leftist leanings and his lack of hesitance when it comes to spending or subsidizing. Sucks about farming - perhaps our neighbors could allow free trade and buy more dairy instead of quotas on both domestic and foreign dairy. Do China and the US compete in any industries besides farming by chance? Hmmm... President Donald Trump correctly noted Friday, as he has before, that Canada has tariffs above 200% on dairy products imported from the US. But Trump again failed to mention a critical fact.
Those high tariffs kick in only after the US has hit a certain Trump-negotiated quantity of tariff-free dairy sales to Canada each year – and as the US dairy industry acknowledges, the US is not hitting its allowed zero-tariff maximum in any category of dairy product.
In many categories, notably including milk, the US is not even at half of the zero-tariff maximum.
“In practice, these tariffs are not actually paid by anyone,” Al Mussell, an expert on Canadian agricultural trade, said in an email Friday. This is not a revelation. That's the point of the maximum. To block too much dairy coming in. That's the point. Imagine you have a police sniper on every highway that headshots every driver going 1mph over the speed limit. Obviously drivers are not going to even approach the speed limit. What does that show? That the police are not necessary because the drivers are nowhere close to the speed limit? That drivers don't want to or can't drive faster? Do you have any point behind reposting the factual policy? Ask yourself an honest question - take away Canada's domestic quotas and blocking tariffs, you think US exports more or less or the same amount of dairy? If the answer is more then you understand the issue with deficits because on balance across all industries that situation happens more than the reverse. If the answer is less or the same, explain your rigorous thought process to me other than "hmmm" so I can know why I'm wrong. China floods markets with cheap products but that benefits everyone in the first world because we can get it cheaper and be more prosperous. But Canada needs the right to protect itself from cheap American milk because the US manipulates with subsidies... There is not a single country on earth that want to get to a point where it can't feed itself. Even if "feed" itself will result in incredibly bleak and rationed food. The point of the cap is obviously so that the US can't obliterate Candas dairy production but still be able to sell a lot of their excess. Yes, over time US production would likely increase to take over the Canadian market. You think Trump would go on less about the 51st state shit if Canada didn't have domestic food production? I imagine he would threaten starvation if they didn't submit. If you are honestly so dumb you don't grasp the concept of strategic industries... (even Trump does...) You’re moving the goalposts. Your argument was that Canadian tariffs on the US are insignificant because the cap hasn’t been hit where they even go into effect. oBaldes counter point was that the existence of the cap alone is enough to limit the dairy product into Canada. Now you’re saying the barrier is necessary because Canada has to protect its ability to feed itself. It’s a fine argument but you’ve contradicted yourself. You can’t argue that Canada needs trade barriers to protect itself if your initial claim was that there were no barriers because the cap wasn’t hit. Edit: on 2nd reading it looks like you weren’t saying Canada has no trade barriers just that Trump omitted crucial information when describing those barriers
The only thing I said was "Hmmm..." followed by a factual quote from an article.
But you got it, both Trump and oBlade are completly unintrested in if their views on Canada's (or other countries) tariffs are even real.
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Canada11349 Posts
On April 10 2025 06:08 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2025 05:56 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On April 10 2025 05:52 oBlade wrote:On April 10 2025 05:36 Gorsameth wrote:On April 10 2025 04:56 oBlade wrote:
The 90-day pause is probably a combination of treasuries spiking which was not part of the plan, countries (hopefully with companies on board) actually reasonably flocking to renegotiate in good faith which does take time and isn't instant, with varying degrees of facesaving, the fact that the blunt numbers did lack certain details/nuance (though weren't entirely bereft, like the de minimis targeting of China), and China's subsequent choices leading to mutual retaliation and focusing on isolating China.
Lamenting billionaires for not pressuring the president more into not destroying them is the funniest sentiment I've seen in a post-2008 world. Yet another reminder that the last time Trump tried a tariff war with China he had to bailout farmers for 23 billion. Trump lost round 1 vs China, he is going to lose round 2. China can keep this up a lot longer. Trust me I know of Trump's leftist leanings and his lack of hesitance when it comes to spending or subsidizing. Sucks about farming - perhaps our neighbors could allow free trade and buy more dairy instead of quotas on both domestic and foreign dairy. Do China and the US compete in any industries besides farming by chance? Hmmm... President Donald Trump correctly noted Friday, as he has before, that Canada has tariffs above 200% on dairy products imported from the US. But Trump again failed to mention a critical fact.
Those high tariffs kick in only after the US has hit a certain Trump-negotiated quantity of tariff-free dairy sales to Canada each year – and as the US dairy industry acknowledges, the US is not hitting its allowed zero-tariff maximum in any category of dairy product.
In many categories, notably including milk, the US is not even at half of the zero-tariff maximum.
“In practice, these tariffs are not actually paid by anyone,” Al Mussell, an expert on Canadian agricultural trade, said in an email Friday. This is not a revelation. That's the point of the maximum. To block too much dairy coming in. That's the point. Imagine you have a police sniper on every highway that headshots every driver going 1mph over the speed limit. Obviously drivers are not going to even approach the speed limit. What does that show? That the police are not necessary because the drivers are nowhere close to the speed limit? That drivers don't want to or can't drive faster? Do you have any point behind reposting the factual policy? Ask yourself an honest question - take away Canada's domestic quotas and blocking tariffs, you think US exports more or less or the same amount of dairy? If the answer is more then you understand the issue with deficits because on balance across all industries that situation happens more than the reverse. If the answer is less or the same, explain your rigorous thought process to me other than "hmmm" so I can know why I'm wrong. China floods markets with cheap products but that benefits everyone in the first world because we can get it cheaper and be more prosperous. But Canada needs the right to protect itself from cheap American milk because the US manipulates with subsidies...
If you could double the sale of American dairy to Canada before getting hit by the tariff, it's not the tariff that's keeping the sales low.
Also, it absolutely is a revelation to anyone in the Maga propaganda pipeline. I've had multiple people in my Facebook friend group try to argue that Trump's tariffs are justified because Canada is currently taxing American dairy at 270%.
(How could they not believe him. Trump's brand is telling it like it is. He's just honest like that, unlike crooked Hillary. Truth Social. He is a Truth teller. No-one tells the truth like him. You'll never believe, it but it's true, everyone is saying it. And 270% tariffs on dairy is exactly what Trump told everybody-being the 8th supposed reason why we should annexed.)
And funnily enough when corrected, they never acknowledge their error but instead move on as if they had said nothing at all.
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On April 10 2025 07:12 Falling wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2025 06:08 oBlade wrote:On April 10 2025 05:56 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On April 10 2025 05:52 oBlade wrote:On April 10 2025 05:36 Gorsameth wrote:On April 10 2025 04:56 oBlade wrote:
The 90-day pause is probably a combination of treasuries spiking which was not part of the plan, countries (hopefully with companies on board) actually reasonably flocking to renegotiate in good faith which does take time and isn't instant, with varying degrees of facesaving, the fact that the blunt numbers did lack certain details/nuance (though weren't entirely bereft, like the de minimis targeting of China), and China's subsequent choices leading to mutual retaliation and focusing on isolating China.
Lamenting billionaires for not pressuring the president more into not destroying them is the funniest sentiment I've seen in a post-2008 world. Yet another reminder that the last time Trump tried a tariff war with China he had to bailout farmers for 23 billion. Trump lost round 1 vs China, he is going to lose round 2. China can keep this up a lot longer. Trust me I know of Trump's leftist leanings and his lack of hesitance when it comes to spending or subsidizing. Sucks about farming - perhaps our neighbors could allow free trade and buy more dairy instead of quotas on both domestic and foreign dairy. Do China and the US compete in any industries besides farming by chance? Hmmm... President Donald Trump correctly noted Friday, as he has before, that Canada has tariffs above 200% on dairy products imported from the US. But Trump again failed to mention a critical fact.
Those high tariffs kick in only after the US has hit a certain Trump-negotiated quantity of tariff-free dairy sales to Canada each year – and as the US dairy industry acknowledges, the US is not hitting its allowed zero-tariff maximum in any category of dairy product.
In many categories, notably including milk, the US is not even at half of the zero-tariff maximum.
“In practice, these tariffs are not actually paid by anyone,” Al Mussell, an expert on Canadian agricultural trade, said in an email Friday. This is not a revelation. That's the point of the maximum. To block too much dairy coming in. That's the point. Imagine you have a police sniper on every highway that headshots every driver going 1mph over the speed limit. Obviously drivers are not going to even approach the speed limit. What does that show? That the police are not necessary because the drivers are nowhere close to the speed limit? That drivers don't want to or can't drive faster? Do you have any point behind reposting the factual policy? Ask yourself an honest question - take away Canada's domestic quotas and blocking tariffs, you think US exports more or less or the same amount of dairy? If the answer is more then you understand the issue with deficits because on balance across all industries that situation happens more than the reverse. If the answer is less or the same, explain your rigorous thought process to me other than "hmmm" so I can know why I'm wrong. China floods markets with cheap products but that benefits everyone in the first world because we can get it cheaper and be more prosperous. But Canada needs the right to protect itself from cheap American milk because the US manipulates with subsidies... If you could double the sale of American dairy to Canada before getting hit by the tariff, it's not the tariff that's keeping the sales low. Also, it absolutely is a revelation to anyone in the Maga propaganda pipeline. I've had multiple people in my Facebook friend group try to argue that Trump's tariffs are justified because Canada is currently taxing American dairy at 270%. (How could they not believe him. Trump's brand is telling it like it is. He's just honest like that, unlike crooked Hillary. Truth Social. He is a Truth teller. No-one tells the truth like him. You'll never believe, it but it's true, everyone is saying it. And 270% tariffs on dairy is exactly what Trump told everybody-being the 8th supposed reason why we should annexed.) And funnily enough when corrected, they never acknowledge their error but instead move on as if they had said nothing at all.
So there is some nuance here. The tariffs are pretty high on the industry, but it varies depending on the product in question. While the industry as a whole only meets about a third of the quota, certain parts like cheese is actually close to reaching that tariff limit.
Then again, the USA subsidizes the dairy industry, and has excessive cheesemaking to use up the excess milk, so I can't say I'm surprised that they try to export as much cheese as possible to us before hitting the tariff limit.
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Really if you think about it, given that the US sends way more dairy to us then we do to them, we should be raising the dairy tariffs bigly, at least double or triple.
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United States42656 Posts
Fun fact, I was for a while, Area Controller for my region at Dairy Farmers of America which is the largest milk business (technically a coop) in America. If anyone wants to know more than they’d like about how milk is priced then hit me up on discord. It’s all Federal Milk Orders and skim/BF/NFS/somatic cells and classes 1 through 4 and it’s about as far from a free market as you could imagine. And they’re absurdly bad at milk. Hugely wasteful.
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On April 10 2025 07:51 KwarK wrote:
Fun fact, I was for a while, Area Controller for my region at Dairy Farmers of America which is the largest milk business (technically a coop) in America. If anyone wants to know more than they’d like about how milk is priced then hit me up on discord. It’s all Federal Milk Orders and skim/BF/NFS/somatic cells and classes 1 through 4 and it’s about as far from a free market as you could imagine. And they’re absurdly bad at milk. Hugely wasteful.
Dairy Farmers of America are absurdly bad at milk?
Compared to what?
Who is the best at milk?
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United States42656 Posts
On April 10 2025 08:01 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On April 10 2025 07:51 KwarK wrote:
Fun fact, I was for a while, Area Controller for my region at Dairy Farmers of America which is the largest milk business (technically a coop) in America. If anyone wants to know more than they’d like about how milk is priced then hit me up on discord. It’s all Federal Milk Orders and skim/BF/NFS/somatic cells and classes 1 through 4 and it’s about as far from a free market as you could imagine. And they’re absurdly bad at milk. Hugely wasteful. Dairy Farmers of America are absurdly bad at milk? Compared to what? Who is the best at milk?
I don’t have an industry wide competency ranking of dairy producers but I have had to explain entire tankers of cream being left out in the sun on a hot day unpowered. Entire lorry trailers of sour cream being spoiled because the temperature sensor alarm was muted. Oh, and the HTST pasteurization machine plots the charts using a mechanical pen on paper much like you’d imagine a seismograph chart working. One day the pen ran out of ink and nobody noticed. The charts are legally required by the FDA because they prove the milk was properly pasteurized and safe for sale. That was a recall. Also they didn’t have a spare pen on hand so a tech had to do a 600 mile round trip to another plant to borrow one. Also “we boiled the cream” “is that bad?” “yes”
They’re functionally a monopoly in most of the country though. After the Dean Foods bankruptcy DFA did a highly leveraged buyout of milk processing plants and it’s made them the only game in town. Dairy farmers have to join the coop because if they don’t then there’s no guarantee of a processing plant buying their milk. And if all the farmers are in the coop then you can’t start a rival processing plant because the dairy farmers won’t sell to you. Kroger and Shamrock and a few others do it themselves still but DFA mostly has it locked down.
Leadership were GE levels of out of touch. Flying around in private jets to let the farmers know that we’re all in it together but that the coop hasn’t made any money for them.
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United States24677 Posts
What about nut milks and froyo?
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United States42656 Posts
On April 10 2025 08:21 micronesia wrote:
What about nut milks and froyo?
All I know about nut milk is that during my time there we paid the crazy girl from Parks and Rec to do a nut milk commercial for us.
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United States24677 Posts
Hah.
While we're on the topic of overlaps between work and discussions in this thread...
The hiring freeze and related controls on the federal workforce, supposedly intended to improve efficiency, are proving rather harmful in my corner of the government. For example, we have a mix of active duty and civilian personnel. Many of the active duty personnel need to switch to civilian at some point to continue working (statutory limits, etc). Right now, some of the highest performing and most adored leaders are being forced to retire from their military role due to timing and are eager to apply for and accept an equivalent civilian position, but the freeze is blocking it. I heard today that one just accepted a position outside of government, with a few more likely to do the same shortly.
Without them, the organization will likely perform at a lower level for a while, costing way more than whatever their salaries would have been. Even if long-term, a small reduction in total staffing numbers is appropriate, this ham-fisted method was the worst way to go about it. We should retain the most qualified people...
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On April 10 2025 08:29 micronesia wrote:
Hah.
While we're on the topic of overlaps between work and discussions in this thread...
The hiring freeze and related controls on the federal workforce, supposedly intended to improve efficiency, are proving rather harmful in my corner of the government. For example, we have a mix of active duty and civilian personnel. Many of the active duty personnel need to switch to civilian at some point to continue working (statutory limits, etc). Right now, some of the highest performing and most adored leaders are being forced to retire from their military role due to timing and are eager to apply for and accept an equivalent civilian position, but the freeze is blocking it. I heard today that one just accepted a position outside of government, with a few more likely to do the same shortly.
Without them, the organization will likely perform at a lower level for a while, costing way more than whatever their salaries would have been. Even if long-term, a small reduction in total staffing numbers is appropriate, this ham-fisted method was the worst way to go about it. We should retain the most qualified people...
Trump will undoubtedly cause issues with military readiness with his actions..... It may take months or years to show up, but it will.
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Donald Trump tweet yesterday " "The United States has a chance to do something that should have been done DECADES AGO. Don't be Weak! Don't be Stupid! Don't be a PANICAN (A new party based on Weak and Stupid people!). Be Strong, Courageous, and Patient, and GREATNESS will be the result!"
Next day he pauses the tariffs. Is this his 4d chess way of letting the public he is starting a new party and wants all of MAGA to join him?
He's also such a masterful negotiator. Everyone knows saying one thing and doing another, not standing by your word, insulting the people you want to make deals with are the bestest classic moves.
Anyone still believing him is too far gone.
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https://mississippitoday.org/2025/04/08/mississippi-libraries-ordered-to-delete-academic-research-in-response-to-state-laws/
A state commission scrubbed academic research from a database used by Mississippi libraries and public schools — a move made to comply with recent state laws changing what content can be offered in libraries.
The Mississippi Library Commission ordered the deletion of two research collections that might violate state law, a March 31 internal memo obtained by Mississippi Today shows. One of the now deleted research collections focused on “race relations” and the other on “gender studies.”
The memo, written by Mississippi Library Commission Executive Director Hulen Bivins, confirmed the scrubbing of scholarly material from a database used by publicly funded schools, libraries, community colleges, universities and state agencies. The database, MAGNOLIA, is funded by the Mississippi Legislature.
Bivins’ memo was emailed to a small group of library and academic administrators who oversee the state-run research database, telling them state laws affecting library collections prompted the deletion.
“In this challenging time with many different viewpoints concerning library materials and material content your willingness to work with these issues is appreciated,” Bivins wrote. “The deletion of these two databases shall be permanent until such time as when the Legislature changes their position regarding the content of materials made available in Mississippi libraries.”
So are we allowed to call this fascism yet, or is that just more hysterical leftism?
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EPT
