EPTOn April 08 2025 00:27 KwarK wrote:
I'm glad we have GH's pretend posters here to keep us from engaging in bad faith discussions with troll types.
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2025 00:23 GreenHorizons wrote:
It's clearly not the posting of the stupid things Trump does I find problematic. It's the gawking at it mixed in with bits of mocking, while steadfastly refusing to seriously engage with what Democrats/we are going to meaningfully do about it that I find demonstrative of why Democrats continuously lose, even when they win the elections.
I know everyone thinks it is easier/better to shoot the messenger/distract themselves by having bad faith discussions with the Jimmy and oBlade types, but I'm making this argument from a functional perspective, not a moral or personal animosities perspective.
On April 08 2025 00:10 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Posting stupid things that Donald Trump is doing is appropriate for this thread, given that he is a U.S. politician. But it's good to know that I should take your flippant remarks as seriously as everyone else takes your remarks.
On April 07 2025 23:59 GreenHorizons wrote:
+ Show Spoiler + The gawking feels self-explanatory. Lately you've been just posting some awful/stupid thing Trump is doing and gawking at it mixed in with bits of mocking.
One thing that's stupid about that behavior is it is complemented by the ubiquitous/your steadfast refusal to engage seriously with what Democrats/we are going to meaningfully do about it.
On April 07 2025 23:51 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Why is it "gawking" and "stupid" to point out that Trump's tariffs are destroying both national and internal economies?
On April 07 2025 23:41 GreenHorizons wrote:
+ Show Spoiler + Pretty funny folks went immediately back into their mocking the US inviting a wanted war criminal to the white house, gawking at Trump's tariffs, and idiotic trolleys about supporting genocide.
People can argue what they are doing isn't as stupid as it apparently is, but they can't seriously argue that it isn't what they are doing.
On April 07 2025 22:49 Uldridge wrote:
Don't forget us being distracted by the n-th iteration of the trolley problem.
On April 07 2025 22:46 GreenHorizons wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +: It's too bad most AI sucks or we could have it analyze the ~400 pages since the election and give us a fair assessment of the ratios, but I'm pretty confident that very few of those ~400 pages are about anything other than mocking and gawking at right wingers and other mean girlesque posting.
You can pick pretty much any of them at random and it's mocking and gawking at Republicans, save for when I drag/push you guys into discussing something else (which is frequently just mean girling at me) or you all get distracted by some random tangent on architecture or whatever.
Acknowledging that it's bad for the US government to be kidnapping people, locking them up in foreign prisons without due process, only to say it was an oopsie that the courts can't make them fix (and they claim they couldn't anyway) is an insanely low bar for engagement. That you're basically the only other poster to do that much is shameful and a devastating signal for the future of the US.
As for the NYC mayoral race, that Democrats prefer a corrupt sexual offender to anyone else, including a social democrat/democratic socialist that would improve their lives, already tells us tons about why Democrats continue to lose to the "stupid people", even when Democrats win the elections.
+ Show Spoiler + I feel like you mean "if someone answered yes"?
I can personally oppose genocide while also materially supporting it with my vote.
On April 07 2025 21:58 WombaT wrote:
In the absence of a general politics and society thread, and as USPol is by far the most active of the politics thread, people are gonna talk about more general political or social issues here.
I engaged on your NYC Mayoral race, there looks positive momentum, hopefully it builds further. It’s also months out, at this stage there’s plenty of room for further movement. What I assume is the groundwork is being done and the positive aspirational stuff, when we get closer in, the attacks on Cuomo in addition will surely follow. What happens then shall be more instructive.
His behaviour should be disqualifying in the first place, I think most would agree here. But will that hold in a tight race, versus a procession?
That’s the interesting, and illustrative question to me but we’re far from getting the answer to it.
We know the Dems are liable to go with the usual suspects generally, it’s the handicap the left have to deal with in trying to punch through. The question now to me is can they punch through, and if so, will the party and its benefactors bend at all? If no to the latter, well folks of my leanings are kind of fucked as two Trump victories haven’t taught them jack shit.
The second component of course being the electorate itself. Money and sleaze go a hell of a long way, but if the body politic would still rather go with the neoliberal sex offender, that’s what they’re gonna do.
On April 07 2025 08:44 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
+ Show Spoiler +That's actually funnier than you realize.
As several people have pointed out, LibHorizons posting isn't really that different from mine, other than the most important aspect of what I and most of the rest of the posters disagree on. LibHorizons is expressly and sincerely trying to map out and engage in the best plan forward electorally through the Democratic party as a progressive that voted for Hillary, Biden, and Harris.
Turns out no one is actually interested in doing that here (regardless of whether they do it with me/Libhorizons or not). Having LibHorizons be the primary/only poster trying to win the next elections with the Democratic party makes them and their mean girl liberalism look ridiculous and shallow.
Perhaps that's your point though? You don't like me giving any credence to the idea there's a path out of this electorally for Democrats, even if Lib/ThirdHorizons are the only ones here posting as if there is and they want to pursue it?
All of our time is obviously much better spent on discussingthe NYC Mayoral race, the latest constitutional crisis, a plan to move forward electorally, sorry, *checks notes* the rate of OF workers among Gen Z.
[quote]
This is bog-standard social democrat/democratic socialist analysis basically no one except the right wingers that are driving this discussion should disagree with. That being said, it's still acutely more insightful than most posting on the subject thus far.
[quote]
+ Show Spoiler +
GH:
As several people have pointed out, LibHorizons posting isn't really that different from mine, other than the most important aspect of what I and most of the rest of the posters disagree on. LibHorizons is expressly and sincerely trying to map out and engage in the best plan forward electorally through the Democratic party as a progressive that voted for Hillary, Biden, and Harris.
Turns out no one is actually interested in doing that here (regardless of whether they do it with me/Libhorizons or not). Having LibHorizons be the primary/only poster trying to win the next elections with the Democratic party makes them and their mean girl liberalism look ridiculous and shallow.
Perhaps that's your point though? You don't like me giving any credence to the idea there's a path out of this electorally for Democrats, even if Lib/ThirdHorizons are the only ones here posting as if there is and they want to pursue it?
All of our time is obviously much better spent on discussing
[quote]
This is bog-standard social democrat/democratic socialist analysis basically no one except the right wingers that are driving this discussion should disagree with. That being said, it's still acutely more insightful than most posting on the subject thus far.
In the absence of a general politics and society thread, and as USPol is by far the most active of the politics thread, people are gonna talk about more general political or social issues here.
I engaged on your NYC Mayoral race, there looks positive momentum, hopefully it builds further. It’s also months out, at this stage there’s plenty of room for further movement. What I assume is the groundwork is being done and the positive aspirational stuff, when we get closer in, the attacks on Cuomo in addition will surely follow. What happens then shall be more instructive.
His behaviour should be disqualifying in the first place, I think most would agree here. But will that hold in a tight race, versus a procession?
That’s the interesting, and illustrative question to me but we’re far from getting the answer to it.
We know the Dems are liable to go with the usual suspects generally, it’s the handicap the left have to deal with in trying to punch through. The question now to me is can they punch through, and if so, will the party and its benefactors bend at all? If no to the latter, well folks of my leanings are kind of fucked as two Trump victories haven’t taught them jack shit.
The second component of course being the electorate itself. Money and sleaze go a hell of a long way, but if the body politic would still rather go with the neoliberal sex offender, that’s what they’re gonna do.
+ Show Spoiler +
GH
You can pick pretty much any of them at random and it's mocking and gawking at Republicans, save for when I drag/push you guys into discussing something else (which is frequently just mean girling at me) or you all get distracted by some random tangent on architecture or whatever.
Acknowledging that it's bad for the US government to be kidnapping people, locking them up in foreign prisons without due process, only to say it was an oopsie that the courts can't make them fix (and they claim they couldn't anyway) is an insanely low bar for engagement. That you're basically the only other poster to do that much is shameful and a devastating signal for the future of the US.
As for the NYC mayoral race, that Democrats prefer a corrupt sexual offender to anyone else, including a social democrat/democratic socialist that would improve their lives, already tells us tons about why Democrats continue to lose to the "stupid people", even when Democrats win the elections.
On April 07 2025 22:08 WombaT wrote:
Missing from this particular poll is ‘Do you think a vote for Joe Biden would stop the genocide?’ Or ‘Is Joe Biden doing enough to prevent genocide’ or anything like that.
If someone answered no to both, I’d consider them wrong on both counts, but it’s not the same thing as mashing x amount of people consider Israel policy genocide, ergo voting for Joe Biden means they support genocide
On April 07 2025 21:55 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
LibHorizons: The majority of us 2020 Joe Biden voters believe Israel is committing genocide. Biden and Harris were openly aiding and abetting that genocide.
Your notion that by voting for people openly aiding and abetting a genocide one isn't supporting that genocide is as ridiculous as saying Trump voters don't support his bigotry. '
The difference is us having good reasons to support someone doing terrible things, whereas Trump supporters don't.
[quote]
LibHorizons: The majority of us 2020 Joe Biden voters believe Israel is committing genocide. Biden and Harris were openly aiding and abetting that genocide.
Your notion that by voting for people openly aiding and abetting a genocide one isn't supporting that genocide is as ridiculous as saying Trump voters don't support his bigotry. '
The difference is us having good reasons to support someone doing terrible things, whereas Trump supporters don't.
Missing from this particular poll is ‘Do you think a vote for Joe Biden would stop the genocide?’ Or ‘Is Joe Biden doing enough to prevent genocide’ or anything like that.
If someone answered no to both, I’d consider them wrong on both counts, but it’s not the same thing as mashing x amount of people consider Israel policy genocide, ergo voting for Joe Biden means they support genocide
+ Show Spoiler +
LibHorizons:
I can personally oppose genocide while also materially supporting it with my vote.
Don't forget us being distracted by the n-th iteration of the trolley problem.
+ Show Spoiler +
GH:
People can argue what they are doing isn't as stupid as it apparently is, but they can't seriously argue that it isn't what they are doing.
Why is it "gawking" and "stupid" to point out that Trump's tariffs are destroying both national and internal economies?
+ Show Spoiler +
GH:
One thing that's stupid about that behavior is it is complemented by the ubiquitous/your steadfast refusal to engage seriously with what Democrats/we are going to meaningfully do about it.
Posting stupid things that Donald Trump is doing is appropriate for this thread, given that he is a U.S. politician. But it's good to know that I should take your flippant remarks as seriously as everyone else takes your remarks.
It's clearly not the posting of the stupid things Trump does I find problematic. It's the gawking at it mixed in with bits of mocking, while steadfastly refusing to seriously engage with what Democrats/we are going to meaningfully do about it that I find demonstrative of why Democrats continuously lose, even when they win the elections.
I know everyone thinks it is easier/better to shoot the messenger/distract themselves by having bad faith discussions with the Jimmy and oBlade types, but I'm making this argument from a functional perspective, not a moral or personal animosities perspective.
I'm glad we have GH's pretend posters here to keep us from engaging in bad faith discussions with troll types.
On April 08 2025 00:53 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
All I'm going to say is that while Jimmy and oBlade are indeed making themselves pariahs in this thread, so are you, and the enmity you experience from others isn't because they simply can't handle your ingenuity, or your ability to speak hard truths, or your "functional perspective" lol. Best of luck though.
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2025 00:23 GreenHorizons wrote:
It's clearly not the posting of the stupid things Trump does I find problematic. It's the gawking at it mixed in with bits of mocking, while steadfastly refusing to seriously engage with what Democrats/we are going to meaningfully do about it that I find demonstrative of why Democrats continuously lose, even when they win the elections.
I know everyone thinks it is easier/better to shoot the messenger/distract themselves by having bad faith discussions with the Jimmy and oBlade types, but I'm making this argument from a functional perspective, not a moral or personal animosities perspective.
On April 08 2025 00:10 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Posting stupid things that Donald Trump is doing is appropriate for this thread, given that he is a U.S. politician. But it's good to know that I should take your flippant remarks as seriously as everyone else takes your remarks.
On April 07 2025 23:59 GreenHorizons wrote:
+ Show Spoiler + The gawking feels self-explanatory. Lately you've been just posting some awful/stupid thing Trump is doing and gawking at it mixed in with bits of mocking.
One thing that's stupid about that behavior is it is complemented by the ubiquitous/your steadfast refusal to engage seriously with what Democrats/we are going to meaningfully do about it.
On April 07 2025 23:51 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Why is it "gawking" and "stupid" to point out that Trump's tariffs are destroying both national and internal economies?
On April 07 2025 23:41 GreenHorizons wrote:
+ Show Spoiler + Pretty funny folks went immediately back into their mocking the US inviting a wanted war criminal to the white house, gawking at Trump's tariffs, and idiotic trolleys about supporting genocide.
People can argue what they are doing isn't as stupid as it apparently is, but they can't seriously argue that it isn't what they are doing.
On April 07 2025 22:49 Uldridge wrote:
Don't forget us being distracted by the n-th iteration of the trolley problem.
On April 07 2025 22:46 GreenHorizons wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +: It's too bad most AI sucks or we could have it analyze the ~400 pages since the election and give us a fair assessment of the ratios, but I'm pretty confident that very few of those ~400 pages are about anything other than mocking and gawking at right wingers and other mean girlesque posting.
You can pick pretty much any of them at random and it's mocking and gawking at Republicans, save for when I drag/push you guys into discussing something else (which is frequently just mean girling at me) or you all get distracted by some random tangent on architecture or whatever.
Acknowledging that it's bad for the US government to be kidnapping people, locking them up in foreign prisons without due process, only to say it was an oopsie that the courts can't make them fix (and they claim they couldn't anyway) is an insanely low bar for engagement. That you're basically the only other poster to do that much is shameful and a devastating signal for the future of the US.
As for the NYC mayoral race, that Democrats prefer a corrupt sexual offender to anyone else, including a social democrat/democratic socialist that would improve their lives, already tells us tons about why Democrats continue to lose to the "stupid people", even when Democrats win the elections.
+ Show Spoiler + I feel like you mean "if someone answered yes"?
I can personally oppose genocide while also materially supporting it with my vote.
On April 07 2025 21:58 WombaT wrote:
In the absence of a general politics and society thread, and as USPol is by far the most active of the politics thread, people are gonna talk about more general political or social issues here.
I engaged on your NYC Mayoral race, there looks positive momentum, hopefully it builds further. It’s also months out, at this stage there’s plenty of room for further movement. What I assume is the groundwork is being done and the positive aspirational stuff, when we get closer in, the attacks on Cuomo in addition will surely follow. What happens then shall be more instructive.
His behaviour should be disqualifying in the first place, I think most would agree here. But will that hold in a tight race, versus a procession?
That’s the interesting, and illustrative question to me but we’re far from getting the answer to it.
We know the Dems are liable to go with the usual suspects generally, it’s the handicap the left have to deal with in trying to punch through. The question now to me is can they punch through, and if so, will the party and its benefactors bend at all? If no to the latter, well folks of my leanings are kind of fucked as two Trump victories haven’t taught them jack shit.
The second component of course being the electorate itself. Money and sleaze go a hell of a long way, but if the body politic would still rather go with the neoliberal sex offender, that’s what they’re gonna do.
On April 07 2025 08:44 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
+ Show Spoiler +That's actually funnier than you realize.
As several people have pointed out, LibHorizons posting isn't really that different from mine, other than the most important aspect of what I and most of the rest of the posters disagree on. LibHorizons is expressly and sincerely trying to map out and engage in the best plan forward electorally through the Democratic party as a progressive that voted for Hillary, Biden, and Harris.
Turns out no one is actually interested in doing that here (regardless of whether they do it with me/Libhorizons or not). Having LibHorizons be the primary/only poster trying to win the next elections with the Democratic party makes them and their mean girl liberalism look ridiculous and shallow.
Perhaps that's your point though? You don't like me giving any credence to the idea there's a path out of this electorally for Democrats, even if Lib/ThirdHorizons are the only ones here posting as if there is and they want to pursue it?
All of our time is obviously much better spent on discussingthe NYC Mayoral race, the latest constitutional crisis, a plan to move forward electorally, sorry, *checks notes* the rate of OF workers among Gen Z.
[quote]
This is bog-standard social democrat/democratic socialist analysis basically no one except the right wingers that are driving this discussion should disagree with. That being said, it's still acutely more insightful than most posting on the subject thus far.
[quote]
+ Show Spoiler +
GH:
As several people have pointed out, LibHorizons posting isn't really that different from mine, other than the most important aspect of what I and most of the rest of the posters disagree on. LibHorizons is expressly and sincerely trying to map out and engage in the best plan forward electorally through the Democratic party as a progressive that voted for Hillary, Biden, and Harris.
Turns out no one is actually interested in doing that here (regardless of whether they do it with me/Libhorizons or not). Having LibHorizons be the primary/only poster trying to win the next elections with the Democratic party makes them and their mean girl liberalism look ridiculous and shallow.
Perhaps that's your point though? You don't like me giving any credence to the idea there's a path out of this electorally for Democrats, even if Lib/ThirdHorizons are the only ones here posting as if there is and they want to pursue it?
All of our time is obviously much better spent on discussing
[quote]
This is bog-standard social democrat/democratic socialist analysis basically no one except the right wingers that are driving this discussion should disagree with. That being said, it's still acutely more insightful than most posting on the subject thus far.
In the absence of a general politics and society thread, and as USPol is by far the most active of the politics thread, people are gonna talk about more general political or social issues here.
I engaged on your NYC Mayoral race, there looks positive momentum, hopefully it builds further. It’s also months out, at this stage there’s plenty of room for further movement. What I assume is the groundwork is being done and the positive aspirational stuff, when we get closer in, the attacks on Cuomo in addition will surely follow. What happens then shall be more instructive.
His behaviour should be disqualifying in the first place, I think most would agree here. But will that hold in a tight race, versus a procession?
That’s the interesting, and illustrative question to me but we’re far from getting the answer to it.
We know the Dems are liable to go with the usual suspects generally, it’s the handicap the left have to deal with in trying to punch through. The question now to me is can they punch through, and if so, will the party and its benefactors bend at all? If no to the latter, well folks of my leanings are kind of fucked as two Trump victories haven’t taught them jack shit.
The second component of course being the electorate itself. Money and sleaze go a hell of a long way, but if the body politic would still rather go with the neoliberal sex offender, that’s what they’re gonna do.
+ Show Spoiler +
GH
You can pick pretty much any of them at random and it's mocking and gawking at Republicans, save for when I drag/push you guys into discussing something else (which is frequently just mean girling at me) or you all get distracted by some random tangent on architecture or whatever.
Acknowledging that it's bad for the US government to be kidnapping people, locking them up in foreign prisons without due process, only to say it was an oopsie that the courts can't make them fix (and they claim they couldn't anyway) is an insanely low bar for engagement. That you're basically the only other poster to do that much is shameful and a devastating signal for the future of the US.
As for the NYC mayoral race, that Democrats prefer a corrupt sexual offender to anyone else, including a social democrat/democratic socialist that would improve their lives, already tells us tons about why Democrats continue to lose to the "stupid people", even when Democrats win the elections.
On April 07 2025 22:08 WombaT wrote:
Missing from this particular poll is ‘Do you think a vote for Joe Biden would stop the genocide?’ Or ‘Is Joe Biden doing enough to prevent genocide’ or anything like that.
If someone answered no to both, I’d consider them wrong on both counts, but it’s not the same thing as mashing x amount of people consider Israel policy genocide, ergo voting for Joe Biden means they support genocide
On April 07 2025 21:55 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
LibHorizons: The majority of us 2020 Joe Biden voters believe Israel is committing genocide. Biden and Harris were openly aiding and abetting that genocide.
Your notion that by voting for people openly aiding and abetting a genocide one isn't supporting that genocide is as ridiculous as saying Trump voters don't support his bigotry. '
The difference is us having good reasons to support someone doing terrible things, whereas Trump supporters don't.
[quote]
LibHorizons: The majority of us 2020 Joe Biden voters believe Israel is committing genocide. Biden and Harris were openly aiding and abetting that genocide.
Your notion that by voting for people openly aiding and abetting a genocide one isn't supporting that genocide is as ridiculous as saying Trump voters don't support his bigotry. '
The difference is us having good reasons to support someone doing terrible things, whereas Trump supporters don't.
Missing from this particular poll is ‘Do you think a vote for Joe Biden would stop the genocide?’ Or ‘Is Joe Biden doing enough to prevent genocide’ or anything like that.
If someone answered no to both, I’d consider them wrong on both counts, but it’s not the same thing as mashing x amount of people consider Israel policy genocide, ergo voting for Joe Biden means they support genocide
+ Show Spoiler +
LibHorizons:
I can personally oppose genocide while also materially supporting it with my vote.
Don't forget us being distracted by the n-th iteration of the trolley problem.
+ Show Spoiler +
GH:
People can argue what they are doing isn't as stupid as it apparently is, but they can't seriously argue that it isn't what they are doing.
Why is it "gawking" and "stupid" to point out that Trump's tariffs are destroying both national and internal economies?
+ Show Spoiler +
GH:
One thing that's stupid about that behavior is it is complemented by the ubiquitous/your steadfast refusal to engage seriously with what Democrats/we are going to meaningfully do about it.
Posting stupid things that Donald Trump is doing is appropriate for this thread, given that he is a U.S. politician. But it's good to know that I should take your flippant remarks as seriously as everyone else takes your remarks.
It's clearly not the posting of the stupid things Trump does I find problematic. It's the gawking at it mixed in with bits of mocking, while steadfastly refusing to seriously engage with what Democrats/we are going to meaningfully do about it that I find demonstrative of why Democrats continuously lose, even when they win the elections.
I know everyone thinks it is easier/better to shoot the messenger/distract themselves by having bad faith discussions with the Jimmy and oBlade types, but I'm making this argument from a functional perspective, not a moral or personal animosities perspective.
All I'm going to say is that while Jimmy and oBlade are indeed making themselves pariahs in this thread, so are you, and the enmity you experience from others isn't because they simply can't handle your ingenuity, or your ability to speak hard truths, or your "functional perspective" lol. Best of luck though.
Fascism is irrefutably on the rise in the US and globally. You choose to mock me for encouraging us to discuss what we're doing/going to do about it instead of almost exclusively mocking and gawking at bad faith right wingers that are obviously baiting you into these silly ego circlejerks where you all feel superior, but the right-wingers end up kicking your asses. You all do this in part because ultimately when you run out of oppressed people to throw on the tracks, you believe you'll be able to save yourself by fleeing and/or joining the fascists officially. Until then, you're enjoying the old mock and gawk like chumps.
If it only endangered yourselves, I'd lament it, but live. Unfortunately that's not how what Niemöller observed works.
