Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting!
NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.
On April 07 2025 21:23 Velr wrote: Listening to my brother that works high up in an international company that manufactures high tech measurement instruments (no, not watches ) based in Switzerland is wild.
They got a factory in the US since a long time but still only produce "easy" components there due to not being able to get the required quality materials and workforce in the US. In general he sounded like US manufacturing is decades behind.
Over the weekend they emptied basically his full storage to send it to the US asap, buying out other companies shipping contracts no matter the cost and so on to be quicker than the tariffs can actually be processed. All in hopes to be able to hold out the storm and keep going longer than other, sometimes even US based, companies. He see's no chance to actually produce the more complicated stuff in the US.
Fun part, everything is shipped via one, apperantly well known, customs port because it's known to be more lenient/lacking forms and stuff to even process "correctly". It's also the most expensive to ship thru (especially right now), but according to him it's worth it.
Yeah I know what he's talking about, and its true for a lot of reasons. Most of the more advanced stuff would be done by shops that have their own partner shops to share the load between the parts that make money and the ones that don't but need to be done to use the parts that make money. The materials thing is a real issue when it come to metals but plastics like heavymolecularweight plastics or UHMWPE can be much easier to source. That being said nothing was cheap to get before this and it'll only be horrendously more expensive now that materials are going to get so much more expensive.
Also due to various factors larger European style shops are very rare in my opinion. The largest Facility of the company I'm at rn is sitting at only 300k square feet or so and sits in a city whos population is under 20k. It has/had a couple plants in Mexico.
Labor in the manufacturing sector is a massive shitshow. Productivity keeps going up precipitously but wages remain mostly stagnant for entry workers because labor is less and less valuable when productivity keeps going up and up. The government doesn't invest in lowering costs for manufacturing which means that the value of labor will just keep going down. This creates a massive buldge of people above 40rn that are not going to retire because they can't until they can't work anymore, who don't care to get up to date on the new tech, but don't really need to because robot arms have been around for decades now and cell construction can be done by engineers. JIT doctrine also dictates to people that being agile is better than specialization. Theres a reason why they literally call them swiss screw machines.
On April 07 2025 02:03 Biff The Understudy wrote: Wtf is LibHorizon?
GH has for some reason started to roleplay about 3-4 different personas.
That’s a bit intense lol.
Its a lot werider when you find out that the only real difference in his posting is that these personas are, in his opinion, okay with genocide. That he presents them as the morally superior version of the other posters of the thread is unsurprisingly on brand for him.
LibHorizons: The majority of us 2020 Joe Biden voters believe Israel is committing genocide. Biden and Harris were openly aiding and abetting that genocide.
Your notion that by voting for people openly aiding and abetting a genocide one isn't supporting that genocide is as ridiculous as saying Trump voters don't support his bigotry. '
The difference is us having good reasons to support someone doing terrible things, whereas Trump supporters don't.
The workforce to process all these tariffed imports and collect whatever is owed simply doesn’t exist. The bureaucracy involved is going to be obscene, there are different parts of France with different rates for example. The backlog is going to get out of control until they just start waving people through like it’s the Chunnel after Brexit.
I think it’s funny that Timebon3s thinks that flying in the leader of the Jews to tell Trump not to ruin international financial systems will work. Though Trump famously says that he only trusts Jews with money so maybe it’ll work, not because the stereotype is true but because Trump is dumb.
As several people have pointed out, LibHorizons posting isn't really that different from mine, other than the most important aspect of what I and most of the rest of the posters disagree on. LibHorizons is expressly and sincerely trying to map out and engage in the best plan forward electorally through the Democratic party as a progressive that voted for Hillary, Biden, and Harris.
Turns out no one is actually interested in doing that here (regardless of whether they do it with me/Libhorizons or not). Having LibHorizons be the primary/only poster trying to win the next elections with the Democratic party makes them and their mean girl liberalism look ridiculous and shallow.
Perhaps that's your point though? You don't like me giving any credence to the idea there's a path out of this electorally for Democrats, even if Lib/ThirdHorizons are the only ones here posting as if there is and they want to pursue it?
On April 07 2025 06:00 Zambrah wrote: Honestly making wank material probably brings 10x as much joy into people's lives as the average TL'ers job does. If 5% of the population was doing porn then it sounds like there are a lot of horny people who are getting to enjoy their horny whims.
I dont see how OF is any worse or more coercive a career than any other job under capitalism, like if you're literally being coerced into doing an OF by a significant other, or a family member or something thats obviously horrible, but thats also just true of being coerced into doing anything else.
This is bog-standard social democrat/democratic socialist analysis basically no one except the right wingers that are driving this discussion should disagree with. That being said, it's still acutely more insightful than most posting on the subject thus far.
In the absence of a general politics and society thread, and as USPol is by far the most active of the politics thread, people are gonna talk about more general political or social issues here.
I engaged on your NYC Mayoral race, there looks positive momentum, hopefully it builds further. It’s also months out, at this stage there’s plenty of room for further movement. What I assume is the groundwork is being done and the positive aspirational stuff, when we get closer in, the attacks on Cuomo in addition will surely follow. What happens then shall be more instructive.
His behaviour should be disqualifying in the first place, I think most would agree here. But will that hold in a tight race, versus a procession?
That’s the interesting, and illustrative question to me but we’re far from getting the answer to it.
We know the Dems are liable to go with the usual suspects generally, it’s the handicap the left have to deal with in trying to punch through. The question now to me is can they punch through, and if so, will the party and its benefactors bend at all? If no to the latter, well folks of my leanings are kind of fucked as two Trump victories haven’t taught them jack shit.
The second component of course being the electorate itself. Money and sleaze go a hell of a long way, but if the body politic would still rather go with the neoliberal sex offender, that’s what they’re gonna do.
The issue with GH pretending to be people is that I don’t know if GH still doesn’t know how voting works or if the persona he’s role playing as doesn’t know. I have no interest in walking an imaginary persona through this.
On April 07 2025 02:03 Biff The Understudy wrote: Wtf is LibHorizon?
GH has for some reason started to roleplay about 3-4 different personas.
That’s a bit intense lol.
Its a lot werider when you find out that the only real difference in his posting is that these personas are, in his opinion, okay with genocide. That he presents them as the morally superior version of the other posters of the thread is unsurprisingly on brand for him.
LibHorizons: The majority of us 2020 Joe Biden voters believe Israel is committing genocide. Biden and Harris were openly aiding and abetting that genocide.
Your notion that by voting for people openly aiding and abetting a genocide one isn't supporting that genocide is as ridiculous as saying Trump voters don't support his bigotry. '
The difference is us having good reasons to support someone doing terrible things, whereas Trump supporters don't.
Missing from this particular poll is ‘Do you think a vote for Joe Biden would stop the genocide?’ Or ‘Is Joe Biden doing enough to prevent genocide’ or anything like that.
If someone answered no to both, I’d consider them wrong on both counts, but it’s not the same thing as mashing x amount of people consider Israel policy genocide, ergo voting for Joe Biden means they support genocide
On April 07 2025 02:03 Biff The Understudy wrote: Wtf is LibHorizon?
GH has for some reason started to roleplay about 3-4 different personas.
That’s a bit intense lol.
Its a lot werider when you find out that the only real difference in his posting is that these personas are, in his opinion, okay with genocide. That he presents them as the morally superior version of the other posters of the thread is unsurprisingly on brand for him.
LibHorizons: The majority of us 2020 Joe Biden voters believe Israel is committing genocide. Biden and Harris were openly aiding and abetting that genocide.
Your notion that by voting for people openly aiding and abetting a genocide one isn't supporting that genocide is as ridiculous as saying Trump voters don't support his bigotry. '
The difference is us having good reasons to support someone doing terrible things, whereas Trump supporters don't.
See I told yall guys roleplaying as someone who supports genocide. I don't know why he surprised he's having a hard time getting people to believe he geunily wants to work together to find solutions when he keeps calling them genocide supporters and telling them that's not a deal breaker for him.
As several people have pointed out, LibHorizons posting isn't really that different from mine, other than the most important aspect of what I and most of the rest of the posters disagree on. LibHorizons is expressly and sincerely trying to map out and engage in the best plan forward electorally through the Democratic party as a progressive that voted for Hillary, Biden, and Harris.
Turns out no one is actually interested in doing that here (regardless of whether they do it with me/Libhorizons or not). Having LibHorizons be the primary/only poster trying to win the next elections with the Democratic party makes them and their mean girl liberalism look ridiculous and shallow.
Perhaps that's your point though? You don't like me giving any credence to the idea there's a path out of this electorally for Democrats, even if Lib/ThirdHorizons are the only ones here posting as if there is and they want to pursue it?
On April 07 2025 06:00 Zambrah wrote: Honestly making wank material probably brings 10x as much joy into people's lives as the average TL'ers job does. If 5% of the population was doing porn then it sounds like there are a lot of horny people who are getting to enjoy their horny whims.
I dont see how OF is any worse or more coercive a career than any other job under capitalism, like if you're literally being coerced into doing an OF by a significant other, or a family member or something thats obviously horrible, but thats also just true of being coerced into doing anything else.
This is bog-standard social democrat/democratic socialist analysis basically no one except the right wingers that are driving this discussion should disagree with. That being said, it's still acutely more insightful than most posting on the subject thus far.
In the absence of a general politics and society thread, and as USPol is by far the most active of the politics thread, people are gonna talk about more general political or social issues here.
I engaged on your NYC Mayoral race, there looks positive momentum, hopefully it builds further. It’s also months out, at this stage there’s plenty of room for further movement. What I assume is the groundwork is being done and the positive aspirational stuff, when we get closer in, the attacks on Cuomo in addition will surely follow. What happens then shall be more instructive.
His behaviour should be disqualifying in the first place, I think most would agree here. But will that hold in a tight race, versus a procession?
That’s the interesting, and illustrative question to me but we’re far from getting the answer to it.
We know the Dems are liable to go with the usual suspects generally, it’s the handicap the left have to deal with in trying to punch through. The question now to me is can they punch through, and if so, will the party and its benefactors bend at all? If no to the latter, well folks of my leanings are kind of fucked as two Trump victories haven’t taught them jack shit.
The second component of course being the electorate itself. Money and sleaze go a hell of a long way, but if the body politic would still rather go with the neoliberal sex offender, that’s what they’re gonna do.
: It's too bad most AI sucks or we could have it analyze the ~400 pages since the election and give us a fair assessment of the ratios, but I'm pretty confident that very few of those ~400 pages are about anything other than mocking and gawking at right wingers and other mean girlesque posting.
You can pick pretty much any of them at random and it's mocking and gawking at Republicans, save for when I drag/push you guys into discussing something else (which is frequently just mean girling at me) or you all get distracted by some random tangent on architecture or whatever.
Acknowledging that it's bad for the US government to be kidnapping people, locking them up in foreign prisons without due process, only to say it was an oopsie that the courts can't make them fix (and they claim they couldn't anyway) is an insanely low bar for engagement. That you're basically the only other poster to do that much is shameful and a devastating signal for the future of the US.
On April 07 2025 02:03 Biff The Understudy wrote: Wtf is LibHorizon?
GH has for some reason started to roleplay about 3-4 different personas.
That’s a bit intense lol.
Its a lot werider when you find out that the only real difference in his posting is that these personas are, in his opinion, okay with genocide. That he presents them as the morally superior version of the other posters of the thread is unsurprisingly on brand for him.
LibHorizons: The majority of us 2020 Joe Biden voters believe Israel is committing genocide. Biden and Harris were openly aiding and abetting that genocide.
Your notion that by voting for people openly aiding and abetting a genocide one isn't supporting that genocide is as ridiculous as saying Trump voters don't support his bigotry. '
The difference is us having good reasons to support someone doing terrible things, whereas Trump supporters don't.
Missing from this particular poll is ‘Do you think a vote for Joe Biden would stop the genocide?’ Or ‘Is Joe Biden doing enough to prevent genocide’ or anything like that.
If someone answered no to both, I’d consider them wrong on both counts, but it’s not the same thing as mashing x amount of people consider Israel policy genocide, ergo voting for Joe Biden means they support genocide
If it’s not on the ballot you’re not voting for it. Lets say you feel super strongly about an issue that neither party is promising to do like closing US army bases in Japan or something, you really want them closed. You go to party A and ask their view and they say "we don't care about that at all but we can promise to kill 100 puppies if elected". You go to party B and ask their view and they also say "we're not planning to close those and also we're going to invest in tackling climate change".
It would be wrong to argue that a vote for either is a vote to keep those bases open, it's not on the ballot at all. If there isn't a candidate promising to close them then you're not voting on that issue. Your choice has been reduced to a choice between dead puppies and tackling climate change.
You may not like that the electoral system takes a host of issues off of the ballot and reduces it to a series of fairly binary choices that don't address your specific concerns but whether or not you like it, that's what it does. Voting for the puppies to live cannot be seen as a vote for keeping the bases open because base closures were never on the table.
Looks like Trump's ubiquitous tariffs are having the expected ripple effect of collapsing markets on a global scale, not just destroying American stocks:
European and Asian stocks continued to drop in a sign that the market turmoil from President Donald Trump's tariff announcement last week isn't letting up. ... U.S. stock futures plunged today as traders continue to pull their money out of the stock market due to President Donald Trump's aggressive and sweeping tariffs — a sign that the multiday losses from last week are likely to extend into today's trading. ... JPMorgan Chase CEO Jamie Dimon said in a letter to shareholders that the tariffs will raise prices on domestic and imported goods and slow economic growth, a reversal from his comments earlier this year downplaying concerns about the tariffs. ... Chinese stocks have dropped sharply, with investors there catching up after a public holiday Friday. European indexes also plunged afresh with E.U. trade ministers meeting today to ready their first response to the Trump administration's levies. ... Trump is digging in on his plan to impose tariffs on every country. In social media posts today and remarks to reporters over the weekend, the president defended his proposal and gave no signs of changing course.
On April 07 2025 19:40 Timebon3s wrote: I'm calling it. This shit ends this week and the markets will reach bottom after today. Time to gear up your investments and "buy the dip".
The EU has not even responded yet, there is plenty of down left to go.
Is it though? Or are the tarrifs already priced into the stock value?
Benjamin Netanyahu is flying in today and he will set things straight.
I’m unsure what him flying in is gonna move in this particular domain in a wider sense.
I wouldn’t consider it entirely unlikely that Israel gets some kind of waiver here, but it’s not any kind of blueprint to follow given this administration is so haphazard across the board, and treats Israel completely differently to its other historic allies.
Well he's the kings of jews, and therefor very good with money. He's also the one person I believe Trump actually respects. So lets see if he can talk some sense to him.
Now the markets are bottoming out and going up again. Lets gooooooooooooo
On April 07 2025 19:40 Timebon3s wrote: I'm calling it. This shit ends this week and the markets will reach bottom after today. Time to gear up your investments and "buy the dip".
The EU has not even responded yet, there is plenty of down left to go.
Is it though? Or are the tarrifs already priced into the stock value?
Benjamin Netanyahu is flying in today and he will set things straight.
I’m unsure what him flying in is gonna move in this particular domain in a wider sense.
I wouldn’t consider it entirely unlikely that Israel gets some kind of waiver here, but it’s not any kind of blueprint to follow given this administration is so haphazard across the board, and treats Israel completely differently to its other historic allies.
Well he's the kings of jews, and therefor very good with money. He's also the one person I believe Trump actually respects. So lets see if he can talk some sense to him.
Now the markets are bottoming out and going up again. Lets gooooooooooooo
Eh, the Asian markets were closed when Trump announced he was tariffing the world so they're getting the Friday + Monday impact on Monday only. US did -6% Friday so they had a head start on it.
On April 07 2025 19:40 Timebon3s wrote: I'm calling it. This shit ends this week and the markets will reach bottom after today. Time to gear up your investments and "buy the dip".
The EU has not even responded yet, there is plenty of down left to go.
Is it though? Or are the tarrifs already priced into the stock value?
Benjamin Netanyahu is flying in today and he will set things straight.
I’m unsure what him flying in is gonna move in this particular domain in a wider sense.
I wouldn’t consider it entirely unlikely that Israel gets some kind of waiver here, but it’s not any kind of blueprint to follow given this administration is so haphazard across the board, and treats Israel completely differently to its other historic allies.
Well he's the kings of jews, and therefor very good with money. He's also the one person I believe Trump actually respects. So lets see if he can talk some sense to him.
Now the markets are bottoming out and going up again. Lets gooooooooooooo
On April 07 2025 19:40 Timebon3s wrote: I'm calling it. This shit ends this week and the markets will reach bottom after today. Time to gear up your investments and "buy the dip".
The EU has not even responded yet, there is plenty of down left to go.
Is it though? Or are the tarrifs already priced into the stock value?
Benjamin Netanyahu is flying in today and he will set things straight.
I’m unsure what him flying in is gonna move in this particular domain in a wider sense.
I wouldn’t consider it entirely unlikely that Israel gets some kind of waiver here, but it’s not any kind of blueprint to follow given this administration is so haphazard across the board, and treats Israel completely differently to its other historic allies.
Well he's the kings of jews, and therefor very good with money. He's also the one person I believe Trump actually respects. So lets see if he can talk some sense to him.
Now the markets are bottoming out and going up again. Lets gooooooooooooo
The kings of jews. Pepehands.
Many of his own don‘t like him. I‘m not too familiar with that country but I‘d expect it to be in a state of constant warfare and strict militarized government.
On April 07 2025 22:55 KwarK wrote: If it’s not on the ballot you’re not voting for it. Lets say you feel super strongly about an issue that neither party is promising to do like closing US army bases in Japan or something, you really want them closed. You go to party A and ask their view and they say "we don't care about that at all but we can promise to kill 100 puppies if elected". You go to party B and ask their view and they also say "we're not planning to close those and also we're going to invest in tackling climate change".
It would be wrong to argue that a vote for either is a vote to keep those bases open, it's not on the ballot at all. If there isn't a candidate promising to close them then you're not voting on that issue. Your choice has been reduced to a choice between dead puppies and tackling climate change.
You may not like that the electoral system takes a host of issues off of the ballot and reduces it to a series of fairly binary choices that don't address your specific concerns but whether or not you like it, that's what it does. Voting for the puppies to live cannot be seen as a vote for keeping the bases open because base closures were never on the table.
You couldn't help yourself walking him through it again, could you?
Does GH think LH's material support for genocide constitutes a deal-breaker for working with him? If GH thinks that Liberals like LH materially support genocide why does he not have an issue with working with them? I personally would have an issue with working with someone whos values conflict with my own value of genocide being bad but is this not as much of an issue to GH? If Material support for genocide isn't a deal breaker then why didn't GH vote for Kamala Harris and help her win the election?
We were told repeatedly that genocide was a red line before the election but now after the election it doesn't seem like one for the GH types. I wonder why.
On April 07 2025 19:40 Timebon3s wrote: I'm calling it. This shit ends this week and the markets will reach bottom after today. Time to gear up your investments and "buy the dip".
The EU has not even responded yet, there is plenty of down left to go.
Is it though? Or are the tarrifs already priced into the stock value?
Benjamin Netanyahu is flying in today and he will set things straight.
I’m unsure what him flying in is gonna move in this particular domain in a wider sense.
I wouldn’t consider it entirely unlikely that Israel gets some kind of waiver here, but it’s not any kind of blueprint to follow given this administration is so haphazard across the board, and treats Israel completely differently to its other historic allies.
Well he's the kings of jews, and therefor very good with money. He's also the one person I believe Trump actually respects. So lets see if he can talk some sense to him.
Now the markets are bottoming out and going up again. Lets gooooooooooooo
Gotta remember that the world is essentially a headline from The Onion at this point. The commentary on reality is intended as a form of absurdist comedy.
We know that the Jews don't control international finance and that there isn't an international Jewish cabal with a single leader. But does Trump? Because I can absolutely see an upside to putting Netanyahu in some sort of robe, throwing on some stonemason/knights templar iconography, and having him tell Trump that the Elders need him to cool off.
On April 07 2025 19:40 Timebon3s wrote: I'm calling it. This shit ends this week and the markets will reach bottom after today. Time to gear up your investments and "buy the dip".
The EU has not even responded yet, there is plenty of down left to go.
Is it though? Or are the tarrifs already priced into the stock value?
Benjamin Netanyahu is flying in today and he will set things straight.
I’m unsure what him flying in is gonna move in this particular domain in a wider sense.
I wouldn’t consider it entirely unlikely that Israel gets some kind of waiver here, but it’s not any kind of blueprint to follow given this administration is so haphazard across the board, and treats Israel completely differently to its other historic allies.
Well he's the kings of jews, and therefor very good with money. He's also the one person I believe Trump actually respects. So lets see if he can talk some sense to him.
Now the markets are bottoming out and going up again. Lets gooooooooooooo
On April 07 2025 19:40 Timebon3s wrote: I'm calling it. This shit ends this week and the markets will reach bottom after today. Time to gear up your investments and "buy the dip".
The EU has not even responded yet, there is plenty of down left to go.
Is it though? Or are the tarrifs already priced into the stock value?
Benjamin Netanyahu is flying in today and he will set things straight.
I’m unsure what him flying in is gonna move in this particular domain in a wider sense.
I wouldn’t consider it entirely unlikely that Israel gets some kind of waiver here, but it’s not any kind of blueprint to follow given this administration is so haphazard across the board, and treats Israel completely differently to its other historic allies.
Well he's the kings of jews, and therefor very good with money. He's also the one person I believe Trump actually respects. So lets see if he can talk some sense to him.
Now the markets are bottoming out and going up again. Lets gooooooooooooo
Even if intended as such it’s basically the anti-Semitic trope. Luckily nothing ever bad happened because people bought into conspiracy theories that sprung from the particular garden.
Not saying you remotely meant it in such a manner, but I’d refrain from that particular one if it were me
EPT
) based in Switzerland is wild.
