EPTI think most people in the left or liberal camp here were pro Bernie... But he didn't win the primary.
Then progressives startet throwing tantrums and it ended with Trump.... TWICE.
US Politics Mega-thread - Page 4837
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Velr
Switzerland10668 Posts
I think most people in the left or liberal camp here were pro Bernie... But he didn't win the primary. Then progressives startet throwing tantrums and it ended with Trump.... TWICE. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24921 Posts
On March 10 2025 12:54 BlackJack wrote: I'd recommend to you Gavin Newsom's new podcast "This is Gavin Newsom." It's basically his launching pad to paint himself as a moderate as he gears up for his 2028 run (My opinion). His first guest is right-winger Charlie Kirk and he says stuff like men playing women's sports is deeply unfair, brags about his state government's cooperation with ICE, and acknowledges the stupidity of Kamala supporting taxpayer funded gender reassignment surgery for incarcerated illegal aliens and that Trump's most devastating ad the last election was "Trump is for you, Kamala is for they/them." He also mocked the time his office had a staff meeting and they went around the room stating their pronouns by saying they have better things to be doing than sharing their pronouns. As someone said recently, the Democrat strategy appears to be taking the 20% side of every 80-20 issue in America. Gavin Newsom seems to agree, even calling the sex change operations for illegal immigrants a 90-10 issue. Who knows what he really believes, he's a slick politician. But he at least seems intent on not buying into the wokeism that has left the Democrat party wallowing in self-pity as Trump does was he wants. Charlie Kirk? Inspiring stuff. Ah fuck it I’ll maybe give it a listen How many 80-20 issues did the Democrats actually run on with their Presidential ticket? This is kinda what I was talking about earlier. If the charge is that x individual is ‘too woke’, said individual can work around that by being less ‘woke’. If it’s a political party, and you’re woke by association, well even in a large, diverse organisation you can at least try to suppress excesses of ‘woke’ and control messaging discipline. It feels we’re at a further stage of association though which is the ‘someone, somewhere with vaguely similar beliefs did something, so you’re woke too.’ which is effectively impossible to actually counter without completely personally flipping. I think this is a problem Newsom is going to run into, for many ostensible moderates it’s not really about an excess of ‘woke’, it’s any amount of it. So actually to placate that you have to hard pivot, but uh oh that’s a lot on the left you’re pissing off. See the thing is, we’re not in a sensible world currently, we’re in clown world. In a sensible world we’d observe that trans folk would be a niche issue, as reflecting their size of the population. Subsets of that population, even less so. This patently isn’t the case. Trans folk in sport? Provided the government doesn’t legislate against it, relevant bodies can set their boundaries, rules and guidelines. Indeed, they’re already doing this, the world over. If wokeness is ruining Star Wars or your vidya, like I think that’s bollocks anyway but it’s not formal political parties doing it. On the flip side, what is the other big American party actually doing as per policy, both in aspiration and in actuality? And if some of that isn’t giving ostensible moderates who voted that way cause for pause, are they really any kind of moderate you can reach by moderating? I’ll add the caveat that there are obviously instances of specific politicians advocating for, or at least signing off, or overseeing, or not opposing unpopular ‘woke’ policies. But I’m talking about the more general cultural/political tapestry. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24921 Posts
Newsom gives Kirk a hell of a lot of rope to throw out what he wants to say. On the odd occasion he does challenge some obvious bullshit, Kirk just blabbers over him and Newsom doesn’t commit enough, with a few exceptions. This is what happens when you give these folks the airtime, it’s why you shouldn’t do it. It’s never an olive branch that’s mutually grasped. Overall, as a bloke Newsom seems alright. I am not massively au fait with his politics, others here say he’s a chameleon that changes with the political wind and I could see that, absolutely. | ||
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Dan HH
Romania9111 Posts
That has zero impact on your life, none. Giving the reigns to an oligarchy led by an imbecile rapist tyrant incapable of empathy that threatens to annex allies, sides with invading dictators, cuts essential services, moves wealth upwards from his voters to a select few and destroys the economy due to his ignorace of elementary aspects of it - all of this in order to deal with a complete non-issue will never make sense no matter how much you want to emphasize the most ridiculous possible examples of wokeims. Ironically, between Trump, Elon, Graham, Santos, Gaetz and too may others - this movement is full of absolute fucking weirdos and sex pests. Let's give influential degenerates power to deal with the vague anonymous internet people that we perceive as degenerates, make it make sense. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16669 Posts
On March 10 2025 21:17 Dan HH wrote: This is the biggest cultural heist in human history, convincing millions of people that everything needs to be destroyed because of couple of people on Twitter identify as dogs or want to be referred to by xer/xem. no, parents lost some degree of autonomy raising their children due to overly militant teachers' unions using identity politics as a shield. Once that happened, middle of the road voters activated on this issue. "a couple of people on Twitter" were a non-factor. Speaking of "cultural heist" I'd say Canada and the USA have lost the ability to develop children into healthy hard working adults. Looking at school pictures from the 70s and 80s ... all the kids were so skinny. Now, the kids are fat. | ||
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Sadist
United States7215 Posts
Thats a new one that I have not heard before. I think the policy you were talking about had to do with schools not having to disclose gender identity stuff to parents. I think a lot of this had to do with trying to protect kids from homes where they could be subject to abuse if they were outed as gay or trans to their parents. This is why sometimes putting a policy in place is counter productive. Any concerns about something like this should be handled on a case by case basis. Any policy is going to run into problems because not every situation is black or white. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21604 Posts
On March 10 2025 21:35 JimmyJRaynor wrote: No, parents should not have complete autonomy to indoctrinate their children in whatever bullshit they see fit.no, parents lost some degree of autonomy raising their children due to overly militant teachers' unions using identity politics as a shield. Once that happened, middle of the road voters activated on this issue. "a couple of people on Twitter" were a non-factor. Speaking of "cultural heist" I'd say Canada and the USA have lost the ability to develop children into healthy hard working adults. Looking at school pictures from the 70s and 80s ... all the kids were so skinny. Now, the kids are fat. and children being fat has nothing to do with school and everything to do with food standards in the US. Your eating garbage 24/7. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44137 Posts
On March 10 2025 21:35 JimmyJRaynor wrote: no, parents lost some degree of autonomy raising their children due to overly militant teachers' unions using identity politics as a shield. What are you talking about? | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16669 Posts
On March 10 2025 21:42 Sadist wrote: Lmao at blaming the teachers union for identity politics. huh? i don't think you read my comment. the teachers union did not cause identity politics. I'm talking about this kind of stuff. https://www.etfo.ca/socialjusticeunion/2slgbtq Catholics and Muslims in Ontario want no part of it. It is big contributing factor resulting in a very mediocre conservative Doug Ford winning a record 3rd majority term as Premier. That has never happened in the history of the province. I'm neither a Christian nor a Muslim, however, I 100% understand their perspective. Can you? | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44137 Posts
On March 10 2025 21:58 JimmyJRaynor wrote: huh? i don't think you read my comment. the teachers union did not cause identity politics. I'm talking about this kind of stuff. https://www.etfo.ca/socialjusticeunion/2slgbtq Catholics and Muslims in Ontario want no part of it. It is why a very mediocre conservative Doug Ford won a record 3rd majority term as Premier. That has never happened in the history of the province. But this is the U.S. Politics thread. When you talk about teachers and identity politics in this thread, it's probably fair to assume you're talking about the United States... but you're not? Wouldn't it make much more sense for you to share your opinions of Ontario, Canada here: https://tl.net/forum/general/480705-canadian-politics-mega-thread | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16669 Posts
On March 10 2025 22:04 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: But this is the U.S. Politics thread. When you talk about teachers and identity politics in this thread, it's probably fair to assume you're talking about the United States... but you're not? Wouldn't it make much more sense for you to share your opinions of Ontario, Canada here: https://tl.net/forum/general/480705-canadian-politics-mega-thread We can discuss Florida then if you like. A couple of people identifying as dogs on Twitter did not cause Florida parents to rally behind Desantis. Like Doug Ford he is another mediocre Conservative. And he just keeps on winning. here is the original statement i am disputing. On March 10 2025 21:17 Dan HH wrote: This is the biggest cultural heist in human history, convincing millions of people that everything needs to be destroyed because of couple of people on Twitter identify as dogs or want to be referred to by xer/xem. This is incorrect. you can't understand what happens when you try to get between a parent and his or her children? really? c'mon man. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24921 Posts
On March 10 2025 21:17 Dan HH wrote: This is the biggest cultural heist in human history, convincing millions of people that everything needs to be destroyed because of couple of people on Twitter identify as dogs or want to be referred to by xer/xem. That has zero impact on your life, none. Giving the reigns to an oligarchy led by an imbecile rapist tyrant incapable of empathy that threatens to annex allies, sides with invading dictators, cuts essential services, moves wealth upwards from his voters to a select few and destroys the economy due to his ignorace of elementary aspects of it - all of this in order to deal with a complete non-issue will never make sense no matter how much you want to emphasize the most ridiculous possible examples of wokeims. Ironically, between Trump, Elon, Graham, Santos, Gaetz and too may others - this movement is full of absolute fucking weirdos and sex pests. Let's give influential degenerates power to deal with the vague anonymous internet people that we perceive as degenerates, make it make sense. This. This. And also this. I’ve personally known like, 2 trans people in my entire life. I shall occasionally see a trans person in various locales on my wanderings, but exceptionally rarely versus ye olde cis people. Yet to meet a Xer, or anything like that. Met plenty who struggle with rent, many who’ve given up on ever owning a house. Plenty who’ve fallen through cracks in mental health service cuts. Like, come the fuck on, it’s the most transparent, obvious distraction attempt from actual pertinent issues I’ve ever encountered. | ||
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Hat Trick of Today
86 Posts
The speed to which read the room and projected a hard image in response to the Trump tariffs bought him a metric tonne of support, which his fellow conservative hoping to be the next prime minister is extremely slow to do and is completely fumbling an easy blowout according to polling numbers. At the end of the day it’s all about economics and being the devil you know in hard times. Whether or not Ford is delivering the goods I don’t know, I’m not Canadian nor do I really care what he does in his fiefdom. But I do know he’s intelligently doing transactional politics with the local unions, that’s not the work of an inept politician. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24921 Posts
On March 10 2025 21:42 Sadist wrote: Lmao at blaming the teachers union for identity politics. Thats a new one that I have not heard before. I think the policy you were talking about had to do with schools not having to disclose gender identity stuff to parents. I think a lot of this had to do with trying to protect kids from homes where they could be subject to abuse if they were outed as gay or trans to their parents. This is why sometimes putting a policy in place is counter productive. Any concerns about something like this should be handled on a case by case basis. Any policy is going to run into problems because not every situation is black or white. It is 100% this. It’s giving room for teachers to make a judgement call without imposing disclosure or risk of censure for not doing so. Going up the thread the Newsom pod I listened to did actually did touch on this. At least in that locale it’s not prohibiting it either, it’s just not mandating it. Religious fundamentalists with gay/trans kids, well you might get a beating, or be homeless. If you’re lucky. | ||
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EnDeR_
Spain2639 Posts
On March 10 2025 22:07 WombaT wrote: This. This. And also this. I’ve personally known like, 2 trans people in my entire life. I shall occasionally see a trans person in various locales on my wanderings, but exceptionally rarely versus ye olde cis people. Yet to meet a Xer, or anything like that. Met plenty who struggle with rent, many who’ve given up on ever owning a house. Plenty who’ve fallen through cracks in mental health service cuts. Like, come the fuck on, it’s the most transparent, obvious distraction attempt from actual pertinent issues I’ve ever encountered. This has been my experience as well. Mention something about rights of trans people and you get hit with "what about those people that identify as cats? Should we have boxes of cat litter for them to do their business in the classroom?". I have actually met a fair few trans people through my lectures. My experience has been that they're regular people, some were terrible at the course and failed out, some did okay; most of them were very nice and one was an asshole. None asked me to refer to them by their pronouns, or made any kind of deal about messing up their pronouns (which, in fairness, I did do; I'm not perfect either!). | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16669 Posts
On March 10 2025 22:20 WombaT wrote: Religious fundamentalists with gay/trans kids, well you might get a beating, or be homeless. If you’re lucky. i'm talking about your basic, every day Catholic or Muslim. I'm surrounded by them. Hell, they built the city in which I work. They love it when I teach their teenagers advanced math. You think either of these parent groups want a jew talking to their kids about anything else? i doubt it. I'm 100% on board with their restrictions ... you see I have an ounce of common sense. For whatever reason, there exists overly militant Teacher's Unions that are not backing down. They have their life philosophy and they aim to teach it. These teachers unions are creating more conservative voters every year. I think the teachers unions are only a symptom of a much bigger problem in NA. The growing inability to develop children into healthy, disciplined, hard working, adults. And deeper than that... hardly anyone is having multiple children. How many regulars to this site have 3+ kids? On March 10 2025 22:18 Hat Trick of Today wrote: Actually, Ford and his campaign manager played the snap election masterfully. the Ontario elementary school teacher's union hands him votes every year with their adherence to the 8 letter acronym agenda. An acronym that has changed so many times i wonder if the identity politics people in their midst of their own identity crisis. | ||
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Hat Trick of Today
86 Posts
On March 10 2025 22:20 EnDeR_ wrote: This has been my experience as well. Mention something about rights of trans people and you get hit with "what about those people that identify as cats? Should we have boxes of cat litter for them to do their business in the classroom?". I have actually met a fair few trans people through my lectures. My experience has been that they're regular people, some were terrible at the course and failed out, some did okay; most of them were very nice and one was an asshole. None asked me to refer to them by their pronouns, or made any kind of deal about messing up their pronouns (which, in fairness, I did do; I'm not perfect either!). Well, that’s what happens you actually meet these people. I play paper Magic the Gathering, which I would say has a large queer community, and I have not met a single trans person flip out if you accidentally misgender them. Some might correct you if you use the wrong pronoun, like quickly state she or he if you use the wrong pronoun, which you then apologise and that’s it. There are no crazy anxiety inducing incidents like those dreamt up by Ben Shapiro. These are human beings, most of us can’t even remember the name of our opponents and resort to pointing and grunting. Just like how I don’t flip out at people who get my name wrong, they have enough grace and social capability to understand when someone is making an honest mistake vs actually being an asshole purposely misgendering someone for no reason. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44137 Posts
On March 10 2025 22:27 JimmyJRaynor wrote: i'm talking about your basic, every day Catholic or Muslim. I'm surrounded by them. Hell, they built the city in which I work. They love it when I teach their teenagers advanced math. You think either of these parent groups want a jew talking to their kids about anything else? i doubt it. I'm 100% on board with their restrictions ... you see I have an ounce of common sense. For whatever reason, there exists overly militant Teacher's Unions that are not backing down. They have their life philosophy and they aim to teach it. These teachers unions are creating more conservative voters every year. I don't know what math lessons you're teaching, but mine aren't promoting identity politics. Even the (off-topic) Canadian website you linked just shows that teachers need to have professional development and appropriate training so that they can address potential issues of homophobia and transphobia. That doesn't mean they're proselytizing students or pushing a militant left-wing agenda; it means they're developing the tools required to understand and address bullying and discrimination. That's a good thing. That's a necessary thing. Teachers unions aren't perfect, but you're actually citing an excellent decision from them. Teachers make up the teachers unions, and it's our job to keep kids safe. | ||
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Hat Trick of Today
86 Posts
If there is no discipline at home, schools can only do so much. I have also tutored as a side hustle and top performing students all come from households that enforce discipline and some form of routine. If parents aren’t enforcing routines and encouraging bad habits, it aren’t the woke unionised teachers at fault. They’re not your family, they only see your kids a few hours a day in a classroom filled with a couple dozen other kids they also have to manage. Teachers can’t be solely blamed for the failing literacy rates in North America when North American adults increasing read less and less books, which suggests they are also reading less and less books to and with their children. Similarly they can’t be blamed for broken attention spans when parents are more than willing to feed their children easy dopamine hits just to shut them up. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16669 Posts
On March 10 2025 22:35 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: I don't know what math lessons you're teaching, but mine aren't promoting identity politics. ramsey #s, lagrange multiplier problems, combinatorics, getting them through the 1st actual science math exam... stuff like that. On March 10 2025 22:35 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Teachers make up the teachers unions, and it's our job to keep kids safe. Tutor services hardly existed ~2000. Now they're everywhere. They teach math, science, english, and french. They stay away from Sex Ed. That'll tell you where parents priorities lie. The "child safety" thing has been applied to the detriment of children. These days so many 18 year olds can't handle basic conflict. https://letgrow.org/kqed-kids-need-independence/ On March 10 2025 22:39 Hat Trick of Today wrote: If you want to blame anyone, blame parents for treating teachers as glorified babysitters who then flip out when their child underperforms. If there is no discipline at home, schools can only do so much. I have also tutored as a side hustle and top performing students all come from households that enforce discipline and some form of routine. If parents aren’t enforcing routines and encouraging bad habits, it aren’t the woke unionised teachers at fault. They’re not your family, they only see your kids a few hours a day in a classroom filled with a couple dozen other kids they also have to manage. i agree. as i stated earlier... Teachers Unions are only a symptom. the wider problem is that North America has lost the ability to develop children into healthy adults. | ||
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