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On February 20 2025 01:17 Uldridge wrote:
Could you elaborate on how the voters were stupid and misinformed?
One only needs to look at r/leopardsatemyface for a daily dose of misinformed voter moments. Propaganda is a hell of a drug.
Some of the voting blocks being blamed here is pretty much victim blaming. Dems failed spectacularly at their job. But everyone else should've done their part in enabling this barely functional system they got going.
If people want a functioning democracy, and their options are a gerontocracy or a fascist gerontocracy, there really isn't much to get excited for and go vote
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On February 20 2025 00:51 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2025 00:48 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 20 2025 00:42 Uldridge wrote:
Maybe start by incentizing 30% of the population to vote instead of pandering to vile people. What a cope, KwarK. You are now at stage 2. At one point I thought the notion that libs/Dems/ilk would prefer fascism to even just European social democracy was absurd. I don't really see how I can dispute it at this point. You prefer fascism. You wouldn’t do the bare minimum to prevent it. + Show Spoiler + You can’t wait to pick up the baton against trans people and immigrants and as an immigrant I don’t really appreciate that. You’re one of the Americans responsible for this.
No. I/'m advocated/ing, demonstrated/ing, worked/ing, and voted against it. I went and am going above and beyond the bare minimum of voting for Harris that you, Zero, Serm, others are trying to make the entirety of how Trump could and should have been stopped. As if making it more likely that Trump became president wasn't explicitly the strategy of the first person you all voted for that lost to him. Like you all didn't know Biden was incapable of campaigning and didn't gaslight the hell out of anyone that pointed that out and so on. You're being ridiculous.
It's this absurdly pinhole view of politics to try to absolve yourselves/the politicians you support/ed while placing as much blame as you can on (not me because they know my vote is rendered immaterial by the system) some caricature of me/people like me.
Zambrah lays out pretty simply how this ridiculous position you, Zero, DPB, Dem loyalists generally are pushing further enables Democrat impotence.
+ Show Spoiler +On February 20 2025 01:04 Zambrah wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2025 00:52 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On February 20 2025 00:48 Jockmcplop wrote:On February 20 2025 00:45 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
Thank you for answering KwarK. I don't have it in me to keep the back and forth going when the evidence is right there. The childish name-calling is tiring and the insistence that Ds didn't do enough when they bent over backwards to cater to damn near every demographic is just plain wrong.
People acting like just because they didn't get 10000% concession on every minor quibble, the Ds failed them spectacularly. The Ds did an admirable job pivoting and fell short. They hold a lot of blame as well. But to say no one else does? That's not how it works. The Dems failed everyone spectacularly. Again their job was to win the election. The voting public failed everyone spectacularly. Again, their job was to prevent trump from winning. My job is to make video games, the Democrats job is to entice people to vote for them, we are each paid to do these things, only one of us does it even half decently though. Democrats make fuck loads of money, they are responsible when they lose, it is their job to win, when they do not win it is their fault that they do a bad job because fundamentally and literally it is their job, I am not paid to make them win, I am not even offered a day off to help them win [emphasis mine, it is 100% Dems fault they didn't pass this under Obama's supermajority], it is their job, the thing they're paid money to do, to make people want to vote for them so they can win elections. Voting literally costs me my time! I could have stayed in on Tuesday morning but I made the modicum of effort to vote, which is a modicum of effort more than Democrats make to win elections. Doing this thing youre doing where you carry water for Democrats is a huge part of why they never learn, why they lose, and while they will continue losing even the fairest of elections. People need to stop enabling Democrats dumbest most dipshit inactions by acting like its everyone elses fault that they cant win elections or wield power.
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On February 20 2025 00:25 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2025 00:07 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On February 19 2025 23:38 KwarK wrote:On February 19 2025 23:07 Acrofales wrote:On February 19 2025 22:56 KwarK wrote:On February 19 2025 22:52 Acrofales wrote:On February 19 2025 22:48 KwarK wrote:On February 19 2025 22:41 Acrofales wrote:On February 19 2025 22:16 KwarK wrote:
Trump, and his chosen cult of yes men, are enthusiastic about the prospect of using force against American citizens. They genuinely believe that their culture war is a real war and that there is a real enemy that is trying to destroy America by teaching history and measuring co2 levels etc. The idea that they’re going to back down from a challenge because some people go on strike is madness, they want people to go on strike, they want people to protest, they’re eager for the fight, they think they’ll win it by using force. Protest and facial recognition AI will put you on the list. Organize using social media and the security services will log every participant.
People still believe in a rule of law that no longer exists, and that’s why they’ll lose. They believe that as they’re detained indefinitely they’ll cry out “actually you’re not allowed to do this” and a bald eagle will break them out of jail. They believe that a general will refuse to follow orders, but also Trump won’t be able to dismiss that general and replace him with one who will. They don’t understand that they lost. That the Trump White House has already started simply ignoring court orders it doesn’t like.
This strike nonsense is nowhere near radical enough. If you plan to challenge the US government with direct action then you can’t also count on the power of the state to protect you from itself. That may be true, it may also be false. The first step in demanding change is to actually demand it. If you say it's going to fail, so better not try, you have already failed. If Trump's answer to a general strike and mass protests is to send in the national guard then obeying that order is up to the national guard. If the army obeys the dictator, there is generally very little you can do. But the US having a Tiananmen Square moment would definitely change peoples' minds about what society they live in. If, instead, you get a Tahrir Square moment then you live in a very different society. Or maybe it doesn't escalate that far in the first place. In any case, if you don't protest the abuse of power, why should anyone stop abusing it? There are other forms of direct action. I think we're all open to suggestions here, so spitball with us! What do you think should be done to halt Trump's autocratic takeover? There was an entire historical period in which vast amounts of money was spent on both the theory and the practical testing and application of tools to deal with fascist states. Everybody, including you, knows what works against fascists once they wield the powers of a state. So you think we're in 1939-stage fascism? I don't think you've had your Night of the Long Knives yet. At the very least you should try to set your Reichstag on fire first, right? They’re control big tech. They control the apps people use for communication. They control popular media. They’ve stacked the courts and are simply ignoring court orders they don’t like. They’ve removed all oversight and are concentrating executive power which they’ve also removed all restrictions on. They’ve had everyone wiretapped for decades. They’ve had Fox News on constantly in every army barracks for decades. We lost. The reason it was so important to vote Democrat in November was to avoid handing them the keys to the kingdom. But people were too morally pure to vote against the takeover and now those same people are going “what if we just tell the king no” as if the king gives a shit what they think. They wasted their shot. That's the funny part imo. Rs told everyone what they planned to do and dared the populace to stop them. They called the bluff and are now doing exactly what they said they would do. People being astonished is weird. Those that sat out, voted other, or voted trump to spite Ds hold so much blame it's sad. They can't even see that they are part of the problem and now want those that did their job to stop this, to help them correct their mistakes. All the while lambasting them and looking down their noses. Regardless of if the Ds did enough to "earn" your vote, this was preventable. @Ender, Acro, Drone, Uldridge, Slydie, Jock, etc... Do you see now how the lib/Dem/ilk went straight from "protests and strikes against genocide are too radical and hurt the status quo politicians we want to elect" to "it's too late for protests and strikes, everyone should give up" because they are too emotionally immature to admit that decades of their refusal to stop falling in line and remember the 1900's-1960's strategies of demanding more through direct action has led to these catastrophic consequences. Instead they want to reduce decades of their and their politicians (and the media's) failures to one night were millions of their own 2020 voters (not me or people like me) didn't show up to vote for them again (this time with extra genocide) in 2024 after Democrats/loyalists gaslit the hell out of them about Biden's mental/physical fitness to campaign/run the country starting well before the primary. It's childish, it's asinine, and it's how Trump is getting away with all this without Democrats or their supporters having any intention of doing anything about it. If you're not going to join in playing GTA Kwark, Zero, DPB, etc... you can at least have the decency to drop your batons and run like cowards (hell if I know where) instead.
I think Drone would go on a peaceful demonstration to demand change. Same for Acro and same for me. I don't get the point you're making here.
You and people like you pushed the genocide angle hard enough that it actually had a measurable (negative for the Dems) impact on the election. You didn't take a look at what Trump was selling and went like: I better do whatever I can to ensure he didn't get power! You went: I better make sure the only realistic opposition to Trump tanks hard!
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![[image loading]](https://i.imghippo.com/files/wFmt5487UI.png)
Not sure how this will help any notion of the US mediating any serious form of "peace negotiation"
Unless it was all a smoke show of course.....
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United States42787 Posts
GH, every post of yours is an absurd straw man that attempts to pin the mistakes of the DNC on random tl posters as if we were in the room.
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United States42787 Posts
Of course it’s all smoke show, Trump is preparing to change sides and start actively campaigning and pressuring for the Russian maximalist war goals. He’s on their side, he never once tried to hide that or pretend otherwise.
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On February 20 2025 01:17 Uldridge wrote:
Could you elaborate on how the voters were stupid and misinformed?
They didn't pay any attention to Harris's platforms or policies or speeches.
They fell for Trump's projection that it was Harris who was obsessed with DEI and trans rights, when in reality it was (and still is) Trump's obsession.
They had no understanding of the economy or inflation, and didn't fact-check Trump's proposals that would hurt the economy, whereas Harris's would have improved the economy.
They forgot about how bad things were under covid, and weren't interested in holding accountable a lying, cheating, fascist rapist who had nearly 100 felonies.
They didn't care enough about social security or healthcare or the economy or education or climate change or civil rights to cast their vote in support of them.
That's a super quick summary, but we went through dozens of specific examples during the election.
People saw dumb shit on Twitter or whatever other social media platform they frequented, assumed that both Harris and Trump were equally bad (or that Harris was worse) without actually doing research, and now here we are.
(As I said before, Democratic leadership made plenty of mistakes too - the Biden reelection campaign into no-primary-Harris, less passionate support for Palestine, not communicating properly on the economy, letting Republicans control the narrative on immigration, etc. - and so everyone deserves plenty of blame.)
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GH nobody is a dem loyalist wtf. You dont get that. People here are anti facism and the only vote for anti facism was a vote for the democrats.
Its just beyond frustrating.
Meanwhile the ghoul who orchestrated project 2025 is now in the government.
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On February 20 2025 01:33 EnDeR_ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2025 00:25 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 20 2025 00:07 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On February 19 2025 23:38 KwarK wrote:On February 19 2025 23:07 Acrofales wrote:On February 19 2025 22:56 KwarK wrote:On February 19 2025 22:52 Acrofales wrote:On February 19 2025 22:48 KwarK wrote:On February 19 2025 22:41 Acrofales wrote:On February 19 2025 22:16 KwarK wrote:
Trump, and his chosen cult of yes men, are enthusiastic about the prospect of using force against American citizens. They genuinely believe that their culture war is a real war and that there is a real enemy that is trying to destroy America by teaching history and measuring co2 levels etc. The idea that they’re going to back down from a challenge because some people go on strike is madness, they want people to go on strike, they want people to protest, they’re eager for the fight, they think they’ll win it by using force. Protest and facial recognition AI will put you on the list. Organize using social media and the security services will log every participant.
People still believe in a rule of law that no longer exists, and that’s why they’ll lose. They believe that as they’re detained indefinitely they’ll cry out “actually you’re not allowed to do this” and a bald eagle will break them out of jail. They believe that a general will refuse to follow orders, but also Trump won’t be able to dismiss that general and replace him with one who will. They don’t understand that they lost. That the Trump White House has already started simply ignoring court orders it doesn’t like.
This strike nonsense is nowhere near radical enough. If you plan to challenge the US government with direct action then you can’t also count on the power of the state to protect you from itself. That may be true, it may also be false. The first step in demanding change is to actually demand it. If you say it's going to fail, so better not try, you have already failed. If Trump's answer to a general strike and mass protests is to send in the national guard then obeying that order is up to the national guard. If the army obeys the dictator, there is generally very little you can do. But the US having a Tiananmen Square moment would definitely change peoples' minds about what society they live in. If, instead, you get a Tahrir Square moment then you live in a very different society. Or maybe it doesn't escalate that far in the first place. In any case, if you don't protest the abuse of power, why should anyone stop abusing it? There are other forms of direct action. I think we're all open to suggestions here, so spitball with us! What do you think should be done to halt Trump's autocratic takeover? There was an entire historical period in which vast amounts of money was spent on both the theory and the practical testing and application of tools to deal with fascist states. Everybody, including you, knows what works against fascists once they wield the powers of a state. So you think we're in 1939-stage fascism? I don't think you've had your Night of the Long Knives yet. At the very least you should try to set your Reichstag on fire first, right? They’re control big tech. They control the apps people use for communication. They control popular media. They’ve stacked the courts and are simply ignoring court orders they don’t like. They’ve removed all oversight and are concentrating executive power which they’ve also removed all restrictions on. They’ve had everyone wiretapped for decades. They’ve had Fox News on constantly in every army barracks for decades. We lost. The reason it was so important to vote Democrat in November was to avoid handing them the keys to the kingdom. But people were too morally pure to vote against the takeover and now those same people are going “what if we just tell the king no” as if the king gives a shit what they think. They wasted their shot. That's the funny part imo. Rs told everyone what they planned to do and dared the populace to stop them. They called the bluff and are now doing exactly what they said they would do. People being astonished is weird. Those that sat out, voted other, or voted trump to spite Ds hold so much blame it's sad. They can't even see that they are part of the problem and now want those that did their job to stop this, to help them correct their mistakes. All the while lambasting them and looking down their noses. Regardless of if the Ds did enough to "earn" your vote, this was preventable. @Ender, Acro, Drone, Uldridge, Slydie, Jock, etc... Do you see now how the lib/Dem/ilk went straight from "protests and strikes against genocide are too radical and hurt the status quo politicians we want to elect" to "it's too late for protests and strikes, everyone should give up" because they are too emotionally immature to admit that decades of their refusal to stop falling in line and remember the 1900's-1960's strategies of demanding more through direct action has led to these catastrophic consequences. Instead they want to reduce decades of their and their politicians (and the media's) failures to one night were millions of their own 2020 voters (not me or people like me) didn't show up to vote for them again (this time with extra genocide) in 2024 after Democrats/loyalists gaslit the hell out of them about Biden's mental/physical fitness to campaign/run the country starting well before the primary. It's childish, it's asinine, and it's how Trump is getting away with all this without Democrats or their supporters having any intention of doing anything about it. If you're not going to join in playing GTA Kwark, Zero, DPB, etc... you can at least have the decency to drop your batons and run like cowards (hell if I know where) instead. I think Drone would go on a peaceful demonstration to demand change. Same for Acro and same for me. I don't get the point you're making here. You and people like you pushed the genocide angle hard enough that it actually had a measurable (negative for the Dems) impact on the election. You didn't take a look at what Trump was selling and went like: I better do whatever I can to ensure he didn't get power! You went: I better make sure the only realistic opposition to Trump tanks hard!
The idea was to get Democrats to stop aiding and abetting genocide in exchange for support. Democrats and their supporters insisted they didn't need that support, they instead needed the support of the people that supported them for their aiding and abetting genocide.
They miscalculated. That is also assuming you credit all the votes they lost between 2020 and 2024 to their supporting genocide and not to the gaslighting, letting the parliamentarian stop them from passing minimum wage, cop cities, cracking down on protesters, record deportations, using the military to police civilians, or like 1000 other Democrat failures/bad accomplishments I could list. Which I realize I may need to explicitly say is absurdly ridiculous.
EDIT: Also the preceding post to yours of course
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On February 20 2025 01:17 Uldridge wrote:
Could you elaborate on how the voters were stupid and misinformed? Voters were warned that Trump surrounded himself with the people who wrote project 2025, the blueprint for a fascist takeover of the government.
They voted for Trump.
Either they are stupid and misinformed or they were ok with the prospect of a fascist takeover of the government.
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On February 20 2025 01:33 blomsterjohn wrote:Not sure how this will help any notion of the US mediating any serious form of "peace negotiation" Unless it was all a smoke show of course.....
Sadly, this is unsurprising. Trump has been pro-Russia/pro-Putin since the very beginning of his political career, since Trump wants to be the dictator of the United States. Trump blaming Ukraine on Russia's invasion of Ukraine is nuts, but now we have a Republican party that is siding with the aggressors and enemies.
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
On February 20 2025 01:40 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2025 01:33 EnDeR_ wrote:On February 20 2025 00:25 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 20 2025 00:07 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On February 19 2025 23:38 KwarK wrote:On February 19 2025 23:07 Acrofales wrote:On February 19 2025 22:56 KwarK wrote:On February 19 2025 22:52 Acrofales wrote:On February 19 2025 22:48 KwarK wrote:On February 19 2025 22:41 Acrofales wrote:
[quote]
That may be true, it may also be false. The first step in demanding change is to actually demand it. If you say it's going to fail, so better not try, you have already failed.
If Trump's answer to a general strike and mass protests is to send in the national guard then obeying that order is up to the national guard. If the army obeys the dictator, there is generally very little you can do. But the US having a Tiananmen Square moment would definitely change peoples' minds about what society they live in. If, instead, you get a Tahrir Square moment then you live in a very different society. Or maybe it doesn't escalate that far in the first place. In any case, if you don't protest the abuse of power, why should anyone stop abusing it? There are other forms of direct action. I think we're all open to suggestions here, so spitball with us! What do you think should be done to halt Trump's autocratic takeover? There was an entire historical period in which vast amounts of money was spent on both the theory and the practical testing and application of tools to deal with fascist states. Everybody, including you, knows what works against fascists once they wield the powers of a state. So you think we're in 1939-stage fascism? I don't think you've had your Night of the Long Knives yet. At the very least you should try to set your Reichstag on fire first, right? They’re control big tech. They control the apps people use for communication. They control popular media. They’ve stacked the courts and are simply ignoring court orders they don’t like. They’ve removed all oversight and are concentrating executive power which they’ve also removed all restrictions on. They’ve had everyone wiretapped for decades. They’ve had Fox News on constantly in every army barracks for decades. We lost. The reason it was so important to vote Democrat in November was to avoid handing them the keys to the kingdom. But people were too morally pure to vote against the takeover and now those same people are going “what if we just tell the king no” as if the king gives a shit what they think. They wasted their shot. That's the funny part imo. Rs told everyone what they planned to do and dared the populace to stop them. They called the bluff and are now doing exactly what they said they would do. People being astonished is weird. Those that sat out, voted other, or voted trump to spite Ds hold so much blame it's sad. They can't even see that they are part of the problem and now want those that did their job to stop this, to help them correct their mistakes. All the while lambasting them and looking down their noses. Regardless of if the Ds did enough to "earn" your vote, this was preventable. @Ender, Acro, Drone, Uldridge, Slydie, Jock, etc... Do you see now how the lib/Dem/ilk went straight from "protests and strikes against genocide are too radical and hurt the status quo politicians we want to elect" to "it's too late for protests and strikes, everyone should give up" because they are too emotionally immature to admit that decades of their refusal to stop falling in line and remember the 1900's-1960's strategies of demanding more through direct action has led to these catastrophic consequences. Instead they want to reduce decades of their and their politicians (and the media's) failures to one night were millions of their own 2020 voters (not me or people like me) didn't show up to vote for them again (this time with extra genocide) in 2024 after Democrats/loyalists gaslit the hell out of them about Biden's mental/physical fitness to campaign/run the country starting well before the primary. It's childish, it's asinine, and it's how Trump is getting away with all this without Democrats or their supporters having any intention of doing anything about it. If you're not going to join in playing GTA Kwark, Zero, DPB, etc... you can at least have the decency to drop your batons and run like cowards (hell if I know where) instead. I think Drone would go on a peaceful demonstration to demand change. Same for Acro and same for me. I don't get the point you're making here. You and people like you pushed the genocide angle hard enough that it actually had a measurable (negative for the Dems) impact on the election. You didn't take a look at what Trump was selling and went like: I better do whatever I can to ensure he didn't get power! You went: I better make sure the only realistic opposition to Trump tanks hard! The idea was to get Democrats to stop aiding and abetting genocide in exchange for support. Democrats and their supporters insisted they didn't need that support, they instead needed the support of the people that supported them for their aiding and abetting genocide. They miscalculated. That is also assuming you credit all the votes they lost between 2020 and 2024 to their supporting genocide and not to the gaslighting, letting the parliamentarian stop them from passing minimum wage, cop cities, cracking down on protesters, record deportations, using the military to police civilians, or like 1000 other Democrat failures/bad accomplishments I could list. Which I realize I may need to explicitly say is absurdly ridiculous. EDIT: Also the preceding post to yours of course
Great job, now the guy who will actively aid and abet in genocide is in power.
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On February 20 2025 01:33 blomsterjohn wrote:
Not sure how this will help any notion of the US mediating any serious form of "peace negotiation"
Unless it was all a smoke show of course..... There is no smoke screen, Trump wants to hand Ukraine to Russia. He has always wanted to hand Ukraine to Russia and has repeatedly made statements to this effect.
the US-Russia negotiation regarding Ukraine is not a peace negotiation. They will come up with a plan that constitutes Ukraine's complete surrender (or near enough to it with Ukraine being forbidden to seek allies so Russia can come back in a few years to finish the job).
Ukraine will obviously refuse.
This will be the excuse for Trump and the Republicans to halt all aid to Ukraine and remove the sanctions on Russia.
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I believe more action and better messaging around health care/insurance and labour protections and wages would've gotten them a thousand times more votes than a different stance around palestine or immigration issues.
That is also assuming you credit all the votes they lost between 2020 and 2024 to their supporting genocide and not to the gaslighting, letting the parliamentarian stop them from passing minimum wage, cop cities, cracking down on protesters, record deportations, using the military to police civilians
100%. Hell, if they owned up to the deportations and message around it they could maybe have convinced enough Rs to swap
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United States42787 Posts
On February 20 2025 02:00 misirlou wrote:I believe more action and better messaging around health care/insurance and labour protections and wages would've gotten them a thousand times more votes than a different stance around palestine or immigration issues. Show nested quote +That is also assuming you credit all the votes they lost between 2020 and 2024 to their supporting genocide and not to the gaslighting, letting the parliamentarian stop them from passing minimum wage, cop cities, cracking down on protesters, record deportations, using the military to police civilians 100%. Hell, if they owned up to the deportations and message around it they could maybe have convinced enough Rs to swap
R voters like deportations. Hell, so do most D voters.
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On February 20 2025 01:40 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2025 01:33 EnDeR_ wrote:On February 20 2025 00:25 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 20 2025 00:07 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On February 19 2025 23:38 KwarK wrote:On February 19 2025 23:07 Acrofales wrote:On February 19 2025 22:56 KwarK wrote:On February 19 2025 22:52 Acrofales wrote:On February 19 2025 22:48 KwarK wrote:On February 19 2025 22:41 Acrofales wrote:
[quote]
That may be true, it may also be false. The first step in demanding change is to actually demand it. If you say it's going to fail, so better not try, you have already failed.
If Trump's answer to a general strike and mass protests is to send in the national guard then obeying that order is up to the national guard. If the army obeys the dictator, there is generally very little you can do. But the US having a Tiananmen Square moment would definitely change peoples' minds about what society they live in. If, instead, you get a Tahrir Square moment then you live in a very different society. Or maybe it doesn't escalate that far in the first place. In any case, if you don't protest the abuse of power, why should anyone stop abusing it? There are other forms of direct action. I think we're all open to suggestions here, so spitball with us! What do you think should be done to halt Trump's autocratic takeover? There was an entire historical period in which vast amounts of money was spent on both the theory and the practical testing and application of tools to deal with fascist states. Everybody, including you, knows what works against fascists once they wield the powers of a state. So you think we're in 1939-stage fascism? I don't think you've had your Night of the Long Knives yet. At the very least you should try to set your Reichstag on fire first, right? They’re control big tech. They control the apps people use for communication. They control popular media. They’ve stacked the courts and are simply ignoring court orders they don’t like. They’ve removed all oversight and are concentrating executive power which they’ve also removed all restrictions on. They’ve had everyone wiretapped for decades. They’ve had Fox News on constantly in every army barracks for decades. We lost. The reason it was so important to vote Democrat in November was to avoid handing them the keys to the kingdom. But people were too morally pure to vote against the takeover and now those same people are going “what if we just tell the king no” as if the king gives a shit what they think. They wasted their shot. That's the funny part imo. Rs told everyone what they planned to do and dared the populace to stop them. They called the bluff and are now doing exactly what they said they would do. People being astonished is weird. Those that sat out, voted other, or voted trump to spite Ds hold so much blame it's sad. They can't even see that they are part of the problem and now want those that did their job to stop this, to help them correct their mistakes. All the while lambasting them and looking down their noses. Regardless of if the Ds did enough to "earn" your vote, this was preventable. @Ender, Acro, Drone, Uldridge, Slydie, Jock, etc... Do you see now how the lib/Dem/ilk went straight from "protests and strikes against genocide are too radical and hurt the status quo politicians we want to elect" to "it's too late for protests and strikes, everyone should give up" because they are too emotionally immature to admit that decades of their refusal to stop falling in line and remember the 1900's-1960's strategies of demanding more through direct action has led to these catastrophic consequences. Instead they want to reduce decades of their and their politicians (and the media's) failures to one night were millions of their own 2020 voters (not me or people like me) didn't show up to vote for them again (this time with extra genocide) in 2024 after Democrats/loyalists gaslit the hell out of them about Biden's mental/physical fitness to campaign/run the country starting well before the primary. It's childish, it's asinine, and it's how Trump is getting away with all this without Democrats or their supporters having any intention of doing anything about it. If you're not going to join in playing GTA Kwark, Zero, DPB, etc... you can at least have the decency to drop your batons and run like cowards (hell if I know where) instead. I think Drone would go on a peaceful demonstration to demand change. Same for Acro and same for me. I don't get the point you're making here. You and people like you pushed the genocide angle hard enough that it actually had a measurable (negative for the Dems) impact on the election. You didn't take a look at what Trump was selling and went like: I better do whatever I can to ensure he didn't get power! You went: I better make sure the only realistic opposition to Trump tanks hard! The idea was to get Democrats to stop aiding and abetting genocide in exchange for support. Democrats and their supporters insisted they didn't need that support, they instead needed the support of the people that supported them for their aiding and abetting genocide. They miscalculated. That is also assuming you credit all the votes they lost between 2020 and 2024 to their supporting genocide and not to the gaslighting, letting the parliamentarian stop them from passing minimum wage, cop cities, cracking down on protesters, record deportations, using the military to police civilians, or like 1000 other Democrat failures/bad accomplishments I could list. Which I realize I may need to explicitly say is absurdly ridiculous. EDIT: Also the preceding post to yours of course
I just don't get why you think tanking democratic support is a better outcome? I mean, you have stated numerous times that you want a socialist revolution. You see on TV a guy that is saying, fairly outrightly, that he is going to remove as many regulations and protections as he possibly can and giving more power to corporations; i.e. the opposite of your stated goal. And you went: right, Imma withdraw my vote from the only realistic opposition and shout it loud and clear so other people in other places do the same thing.
I just don't get it.
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Honestly Im not sure if Democrats could ever have won, theyve built such a strong reputation as inept and worthless that Im not sure enough people actually trust anything that they say they want to get done will get done, or even attempt to get done lol.
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
On February 20 2025 02:03 EnDeR_ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2025 01:40 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 20 2025 01:33 EnDeR_ wrote:On February 20 2025 00:25 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 20 2025 00:07 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On February 19 2025 23:38 KwarK wrote:On February 19 2025 23:07 Acrofales wrote:On February 19 2025 22:56 KwarK wrote:On February 19 2025 22:52 Acrofales wrote:On February 19 2025 22:48 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
There are other forms of direct action. I think we're all open to suggestions here, so spitball with us! What do you think should be done to halt Trump's autocratic takeover? There was an entire historical period in which vast amounts of money was spent on both the theory and the practical testing and application of tools to deal with fascist states. Everybody, including you, knows what works against fascists once they wield the powers of a state. So you think we're in 1939-stage fascism? I don't think you've had your Night of the Long Knives yet. At the very least you should try to set your Reichstag on fire first, right? They’re control big tech. They control the apps people use for communication. They control popular media. They’ve stacked the courts and are simply ignoring court orders they don’t like. They’ve removed all oversight and are concentrating executive power which they’ve also removed all restrictions on. They’ve had everyone wiretapped for decades. They’ve had Fox News on constantly in every army barracks for decades. We lost. The reason it was so important to vote Democrat in November was to avoid handing them the keys to the kingdom. But people were too morally pure to vote against the takeover and now those same people are going “what if we just tell the king no” as if the king gives a shit what they think. They wasted their shot. That's the funny part imo. Rs told everyone what they planned to do and dared the populace to stop them. They called the bluff and are now doing exactly what they said they would do. People being astonished is weird. Those that sat out, voted other, or voted trump to spite Ds hold so much blame it's sad. They can't even see that they are part of the problem and now want those that did their job to stop this, to help them correct their mistakes. All the while lambasting them and looking down their noses. Regardless of if the Ds did enough to "earn" your vote, this was preventable. @Ender, Acro, Drone, Uldridge, Slydie, Jock, etc... Do you see now how the lib/Dem/ilk went straight from "protests and strikes against genocide are too radical and hurt the status quo politicians we want to elect" to "it's too late for protests and strikes, everyone should give up" because they are too emotionally immature to admit that decades of their refusal to stop falling in line and remember the 1900's-1960's strategies of demanding more through direct action has led to these catastrophic consequences. Instead they want to reduce decades of their and their politicians (and the media's) failures to one night were millions of their own 2020 voters (not me or people like me) didn't show up to vote for them again (this time with extra genocide) in 2024 after Democrats/loyalists gaslit the hell out of them about Biden's mental/physical fitness to campaign/run the country starting well before the primary. It's childish, it's asinine, and it's how Trump is getting away with all this without Democrats or their supporters having any intention of doing anything about it. If you're not going to join in playing GTA Kwark, Zero, DPB, etc... you can at least have the decency to drop your batons and run like cowards (hell if I know where) instead. I think Drone would go on a peaceful demonstration to demand change. Same for Acro and same for me. I don't get the point you're making here. You and people like you pushed the genocide angle hard enough that it actually had a measurable (negative for the Dems) impact on the election. You didn't take a look at what Trump was selling and went like: I better do whatever I can to ensure he didn't get power! You went: I better make sure the only realistic opposition to Trump tanks hard! The idea was to get Democrats to stop aiding and abetting genocide in exchange for support. Democrats and their supporters insisted they didn't need that support, they instead needed the support of the people that supported them for their aiding and abetting genocide. They miscalculated. That is also assuming you credit all the votes they lost between 2020 and 2024 to their supporting genocide and not to the gaslighting, letting the parliamentarian stop them from passing minimum wage, cop cities, cracking down on protesters, record deportations, using the military to police civilians, or like 1000 other Democrat failures/bad accomplishments I could list. Which I realize I may need to explicitly say is absurdly ridiculous. EDIT: Also the preceding post to yours of course I just don't get why you think tanking democratic support is a better outcome? I mean, you have stated numerous times that you want a socialist revolution. You see on TV a guy that is saying, fairly outrightly, that he is going to remove as many regulations and protections as he possibly can and giving more power to corporations; i.e. the opposite of your stated goal. And you went: right, Imma withdraw my vote from the only realistic opposition and shout it loud and clear so other people in other places do the same thing. I just don't get it.
As with most virtue signallers, it's easier to cry on the sidelines than actually have to make difficult decisions and enact difficult policies when in power. What's the point to life if you can't feel like a victim/oppressed?
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On February 20 2025 02:03 EnDeR_ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2025 01:40 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 20 2025 01:33 EnDeR_ wrote:On February 20 2025 00:25 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 20 2025 00:07 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On February 19 2025 23:38 KwarK wrote:On February 19 2025 23:07 Acrofales wrote:On February 19 2025 22:56 KwarK wrote:On February 19 2025 22:52 Acrofales wrote:On February 19 2025 22:48 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
There are other forms of direct action. I think we're all open to suggestions here, so spitball with us! What do you think should be done to halt Trump's autocratic takeover? There was an entire historical period in which vast amounts of money was spent on both the theory and the practical testing and application of tools to deal with fascist states. Everybody, including you, knows what works against fascists once they wield the powers of a state. So you think we're in 1939-stage fascism? I don't think you've had your Night of the Long Knives yet. At the very least you should try to set your Reichstag on fire first, right? They’re control big tech. They control the apps people use for communication. They control popular media. They’ve stacked the courts and are simply ignoring court orders they don’t like. They’ve removed all oversight and are concentrating executive power which they’ve also removed all restrictions on. They’ve had everyone wiretapped for decades. They’ve had Fox News on constantly in every army barracks for decades. We lost. The reason it was so important to vote Democrat in November was to avoid handing them the keys to the kingdom. But people were too morally pure to vote against the takeover and now those same people are going “what if we just tell the king no” as if the king gives a shit what they think. They wasted their shot. That's the funny part imo. Rs told everyone what they planned to do and dared the populace to stop them. They called the bluff and are now doing exactly what they said they would do. People being astonished is weird. Those that sat out, voted other, or voted trump to spite Ds hold so much blame it's sad. They can't even see that they are part of the problem and now want those that did their job to stop this, to help them correct their mistakes. All the while lambasting them and looking down their noses. Regardless of if the Ds did enough to "earn" your vote, this was preventable. @Ender, Acro, Drone, Uldridge, Slydie, Jock, etc... Do you see now how the lib/Dem/ilk went straight from "protests and strikes against genocide are too radical and hurt the status quo politicians we want to elect" to "it's too late for protests and strikes, everyone should give up" because they are too emotionally immature to admit that decades of their refusal to stop falling in line and remember the 1900's-1960's strategies of demanding more through direct action has led to these catastrophic consequences. Instead they want to reduce decades of their and their politicians (and the media's) failures to one night were millions of their own 2020 voters (not me or people like me) didn't show up to vote for them again (this time with extra genocide) in 2024 after Democrats/loyalists gaslit the hell out of them about Biden's mental/physical fitness to campaign/run the country starting well before the primary. It's childish, it's asinine, and it's how Trump is getting away with all this without Democrats or their supporters having any intention of doing anything about it. If you're not going to join in playing GTA Kwark, Zero, DPB, etc... you can at least have the decency to drop your batons and run like cowards (hell if I know where) instead. I think Drone would go on a peaceful demonstration to demand change. Same for Acro and same for me. I don't get the point you're making here. You and people like you pushed the genocide angle hard enough that it actually had a measurable (negative for the Dems) impact on the election. You didn't take a look at what Trump was selling and went like: I better do whatever I can to ensure he didn't get power! You went: I better make sure the only realistic opposition to Trump tanks hard! The idea was to get Democrats to stop aiding and abetting genocide in exchange for support. Democrats and their supporters insisted they didn't need that support, they instead needed the support of the people that supported them for their aiding and abetting genocide. They miscalculated. That is also assuming you credit all the votes they lost between 2020 and 2024 to their supporting genocide and not to the gaslighting, letting the parliamentarian stop them from passing minimum wage, cop cities, cracking down on protesters, record deportations, using the military to police civilians, or like 1000 other Democrat failures/bad accomplishments I could list. Which I realize I may need to explicitly say is absurdly ridiculous. EDIT: Also the preceding post to yours of course I just don't get why you think tanking democratic support is a better outcome? I + Show Spoiler + mean, you have stated numerous times that you want a socialist revolution. You see on TV a guy that is saying, fairly outrightly, that he is going to remove as many regulations and protections as he possibly can and giving more power to corporations; i.e. the opposite of your stated goal. And you went: right, Imma withdraw my vote from the only realistic opposition and shout it loud and clear so other people in other places do the same thing. I just don't get it.
I know you don't. Because I didn't tank their support. They did. The idea it was me or people like me is giving us way more power than the millions more Democrats or several more posters Kwark is insisting it's ridiculous to ascribe agency to in this.
You "just don't get it" because your premise is absurd.
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United States42787 Posts
Apparently it's more absurd to ascribe an individual responsibility for their direct choice to vote and which party they vote for than it is to ascribe random TL posters responsibility for the internal decision making of the DNC.
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EPT
