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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
On February 20 2025 03:31 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2025 03:30 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 20 2025 03:28 KwarK wrote:On February 20 2025 03:22 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 20 2025 03:13 KwarK wrote:On February 20 2025 03:11 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 20 2025 03:05 KwarK wrote:On February 20 2025 03:03 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 20 2025 03:00 KwarK wrote:On February 20 2025 02:57 GreenHorizons wrote:[quote]No you've literally given up bro. Your only options are to pick up a baton and join the fascists fighting against the people trying to organize with people against fascism or run and hide. So far you're picking your baton. I'd rather you try socialism and organize while putting your intellect to use on counter surveillance practices for protests instead of pissing on the idea of resisting fascism altogether because they already have too much power because of an election we can't change the outcome of at this point regardless of who/what either of us blame for being here now. But if you can't do that, I'd like you to do the bare minimum in this moment and just drop the baton and be quiet so you can hide/get away/let others work in what little peace we can find. I literally don't have a baton. Not a literal one yet. Your rhetoric is your bludgeon of choice for the moment. You do have a hammer that looms pretty ominously though lol. To be clear, am I to understand that you think that my moderation role on a starcraft broodwar forum has inevitably condemned me to become part of the future police state? That's what you're going with? I may not have a baton now but I'm a moderator on teamliquid and so it's obvious which side I'm on? Obviously not and this is probably where you're going to get so ridiculous I have to disengage. I very clearly made the point that your rhetoric is your bludgeon of choice. Then I made an offhand joke about you having a hammer because it is another blunt instrument that we have all made jokes about hitting people with. So why do you keep going on and on about fucking batons every post? It's shorthand reference to your sentiment: On April 25 2019 09:30 KwarK wrote:
That when the day comes it’ll be the people you’re trying to help hitting you with batons because they’re more afraid of becoming you than what you’re trying to save them from. I’m not unsympathetic, I’m disillusioned. The day has come. You've picked up your rhetorical baton. I'd like you to put it down and leave/hide before you pick up the literal one and rationalize it with you/your family's well being. Your reading comprehension is fucking awful. Not me you functional illiterate. The American Trump voting working class to whom you're just another DEI. It's quite obviously applicable to you too. I've literally told you that it's not.
Yeah, so do the Trump supporters. I'm going to hold your hand when I tell you this...
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I don't think Kwark is afraid of becoming a socialist lol, so he won't hit you with anything except his proverbial one.
But I'm also not sure what Americans here will do when push comes to shove. I think staying passive about what is going on is a serious waste of time, if you want to prolong this current prosperity at least
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REEEEE!!
In Indiana a 28 year old David Cherry has been arrested for "threatening" Elon Musk on Twitter.
FREEE SPEECH??!? ANYBODY???
Police had a search warrant for his home, and took his legally owned assault rifle, handgun, ammunition and body armor.
THEY ARE GOING AFTER GUN OWNERS! THE FEDS ARE COMING!
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On February 20 2025 03:40 KT_Elwood wrote:
REEEEE!!
In Indiana a 28 year old David Cherry has been arrested for "threatening" Elon Musk on Twitter.
FREEE SPEECH??!? ANYBODY???
Police had a search warrant for his home, and took his legally owned assault rifle, handgun, ammunition and body armor.
THEY ARE GOING AFTER GUN OWNERS! THE FEDS ARE COMING!
Shhh. The trumpers might get scared and threaten democrat politicians at pizza parlors again!
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On February 20 2025 03:40 KT_Elwood wrote:
REEEEE!!
In Indiana a 28 year old David Cherry has been arrested for "threatening" Elon Musk on Twitter.
FREEE SPEECH??!? ANYBODY???
Police had a search warrant for his home, and took his legally owned assault rifle, handgun, ammunition and body armor.
THEY ARE GOING AFTER GUN OWNERS! THE FEDS ARE COMING!
Here's more information on that:
Southern Indiana man arrested for alleged death threats towards Elon Musk
CORYDON, Ind. (WAVE) - A Harrison County, Indiana man has been arrested after allegedly posting death threats towards Elon Musk on X, formally Twitter.
Indiana State Police said they were contacted by Texas authorities early Tuesday morning claiming 28-year-old David Cherry had threatened Musk on social media earlier in February.
ISP began an investigation and found Cherry in Clarksville where he was reportedly arrested without incident. Cherry was taken to the Sellergsbug Post for further questioning. Police then obtained a search warrant of Cherry’s Palmyra home where they say they found an AR-15-style rifle, a handgun, ammunition, and a ballistic vest from the residence.
Cherry has been charged with intimidation. He’s currently being held in the Harrison County Jail without bond. https://www.wave3.com/2025/02/18/southern-indiana-man-arrested-alleged-death-threats-towards-elon-musk/
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On February 19 2025 23:38 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2025 23:07 Acrofales wrote:On February 19 2025 22:56 KwarK wrote:On February 19 2025 22:52 Acrofales wrote:On February 19 2025 22:48 KwarK wrote:On February 19 2025 22:41 Acrofales wrote:On February 19 2025 22:16 KwarK wrote:
Trump, and his chosen cult of yes men, are enthusiastic about the prospect of using force against American citizens. They genuinely believe that their culture war is a real war and that there is a real enemy that is trying to destroy America by teaching history and measuring co2 levels etc. The idea that they’re going to back down from a challenge because some people go on strike is madness, they want people to go on strike, they want people to protest, they’re eager for the fight, they think they’ll win it by using force. Protest and facial recognition AI will put you on the list. Organize using social media and the security services will log every participant.
People still believe in a rule of law that no longer exists, and that’s why they’ll lose. They believe that as they’re detained indefinitely they’ll cry out “actually you’re not allowed to do this” and a bald eagle will break them out of jail. They believe that a general will refuse to follow orders, but also Trump won’t be able to dismiss that general and replace him with one who will. They don’t understand that they lost. That the Trump White House has already started simply ignoring court orders it doesn’t like.
This strike nonsense is nowhere near radical enough. If you plan to challenge the US government with direct action then you can’t also count on the power of the state to protect you from itself. That may be true, it may also be false. The first step in demanding change is to actually demand it. If you say it's going to fail, so better not try, you have already failed. If Trump's answer to a general strike and mass protests is to send in the national guard then obeying that order is up to the national guard. If the army obeys the dictator, there is generally very little you can do. But the US having a Tiananmen Square moment would definitely change peoples' minds about what society they live in. If, instead, you get a Tahrir Square moment then you live in a very different society. Or maybe it doesn't escalate that far in the first place. In any case, if you don't protest the abuse of power, why should anyone stop abusing it? There are other forms of direct action. I think we're all open to suggestions here, so spitball with us! What do you think should be done to halt Trump's autocratic takeover? There was an entire historical period in which vast amounts of money was spent on both the theory and the practical testing and application of tools to deal with fascist states. Everybody, including you, knows what works against fascists once they wield the powers of a state. So you think we're in 1939-stage fascism? I don't think you've had your Night of the Long Knives yet. At the very least you should try to set your Reichstag on fire first, right? They’re control big tech. They control the apps people use for communication. They control popular media. They’ve stacked the courts and are simply ignoring court orders they don’t like. They’ve removed all oversight and are concentrating executive power which they’ve also removed all restrictions on. They’ve had everyone wiretapped for decades. They’ve had Fox News on constantly in every army barracks for decades. We lost. The reason it was so important to vote Democrat in November was to avoid handing them the keys to the kingdom. But people were too morally pure to vote against the takeover and now those same people are going “what if we just tell the king no” as if the king gives a shit what they think. They wasted their shot.
So let me get this straight, your choices were:
1. Vote Democrats
2. Inevitable Fascism and pray Mexico invades and saves your country.
You tried (1) and failed so there is now literally nothing more for you to do. Oh well, better hope Mexico can help. If voting democrats once every few years can't stop fascism, nothing outside of WW3 can.
It seems that for someone as smart as you are, that is an incredibly dumb take.
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I don't think he's saying that, he's just stressing the importance of option 1.
I haven't seen the whole exchange this time around (but it's been the same for years).
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Fascists have historically been very susceptible to voting, the power of voting has definitely been a bigly successful and useful tool in how we've handled fascism in the past.
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On February 20 2025 06:34 Zambrah wrote:
Fascists have historically been very susceptible to voting, the power of voting has definitely been a bigly successful and useful tool in how we've handled fascism in the past. I get that your being sarcastic but yes, it is.
Once Fascists are in power they tend to not want to leave, and once in control of the state they have access to the state tools of violence.
Not voting Fascists into power is the best way to keep them from power, because then all that is left is a coup and those are tricky when you don't control the military, via not being in power and not being able to appoint those in charge (and firing those who won't bend the knee)
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Fascists not being born is actually the best way to keep fascists out of power, its also about as realistic as voting solving the fascist problem.
Heres the real actual answer to how we deal with fascists,
Violence.
Surprise! Its violence. Violence is genuinely the answer to "how do we deal with the fascists?"
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United States44286 Posts
On February 20 2025 06:01 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2025 23:38 KwarK wrote:On February 19 2025 23:07 Acrofales wrote:On February 19 2025 22:56 KwarK wrote:On February 19 2025 22:52 Acrofales wrote:On February 19 2025 22:48 KwarK wrote:On February 19 2025 22:41 Acrofales wrote:On February 19 2025 22:16 KwarK wrote:
Trump, and his chosen cult of yes men, are enthusiastic about the prospect of using force against American citizens. They genuinely believe that their culture war is a real war and that there is a real enemy that is trying to destroy America by teaching history and measuring co2 levels etc. The idea that they’re going to back down from a challenge because some people go on strike is madness, they want people to go on strike, they want people to protest, they’re eager for the fight, they think they’ll win it by using force. Protest and facial recognition AI will put you on the list. Organize using social media and the security services will log every participant.
People still believe in a rule of law that no longer exists, and that’s why they’ll lose. They believe that as they’re detained indefinitely they’ll cry out “actually you’re not allowed to do this” and a bald eagle will break them out of jail. They believe that a general will refuse to follow orders, but also Trump won’t be able to dismiss that general and replace him with one who will. They don’t understand that they lost. That the Trump White House has already started simply ignoring court orders it doesn’t like.
This strike nonsense is nowhere near radical enough. If you plan to challenge the US government with direct action then you can’t also count on the power of the state to protect you from itself. That may be true, it may also be false. The first step in demanding change is to actually demand it. If you say it's going to fail, so better not try, you have already failed. If Trump's answer to a general strike and mass protests is to send in the national guard then obeying that order is up to the national guard. If the army obeys the dictator, there is generally very little you can do. But the US having a Tiananmen Square moment would definitely change peoples' minds about what society they live in. If, instead, you get a Tahrir Square moment then you live in a very different society. Or maybe it doesn't escalate that far in the first place. In any case, if you don't protest the abuse of power, why should anyone stop abusing it? There are other forms of direct action. I think we're all open to suggestions here, so spitball with us! What do you think should be done to halt Trump's autocratic takeover? There was an entire historical period in which vast amounts of money was spent on both the theory and the practical testing and application of tools to deal with fascist states. Everybody, including you, knows what works against fascists once they wield the powers of a state. So you think we're in 1939-stage fascism? I don't think you've had your Night of the Long Knives yet. At the very least you should try to set your Reichstag on fire first, right? They’re control big tech. They control the apps people use for communication. They control popular media. They’ve stacked the courts and are simply ignoring court orders they don’t like. They’ve removed all oversight and are concentrating executive power which they’ve also removed all restrictions on. They’ve had everyone wiretapped for decades. They’ve had Fox News on constantly in every army barracks for decades. We lost. The reason it was so important to vote Democrat in November was to avoid handing them the keys to the kingdom. But people were too morally pure to vote against the takeover and now those same people are going “what if we just tell the king no” as if the king gives a shit what they think. They wasted their shot. So let me get this straight, your choices were: 1. Vote Democrats 2. Inevitable Fascism and pray Mexico invades and saves your country. You tried (1) and failed so there is now literally nothing more for you to do. Oh well, better hope Mexico can help. If voting democrats once every few years can't stop fascism, nothing outside of WW3 can. It seems that for someone as smart as you are, that is an incredibly dumb take.
I mean if you ignore literally all the other posts then sure, you could take my meaning to be giving up. But I was very clear that there were alternatives in other posts. It’ll take more than going to DC in a vagina hat though.
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Now that Trump has undeniably, truly, 100% made his big play to be an actual dictator, I want to draw people's attention to this point, because fascist dipshits are benefiting from people being fooled.
When JD Vance traveled to Europe to help spread fascism and weaken the EU, he said Europe limiting Nazi speech to protect democracy showed weakness. He said if EU democracy is so fragile that it needs to suppress Nazi speech, then apparently EU democratic institutions are weak and ought to be replaced.
His argument is flawed because he wrongly defines democracy as inherently unwavering and resilient. Democracy is unnatural and goes against human nature. Human societies naturally converge towards oligarchy and dictatorship. Democracy is a man-made invention and requires diligent care, maintenance, and protection. It is fragile because human nature will always exert a growing pressure against it. Despite its fragility, it is entirely worthwhile and enormously reduces human suffering.
The goal is not to let nature take the wheel and live as the lion does. The goal is to strive for greatness and continuously improve the human condition. Simplicity is not virtuous.
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On February 20 2025 07:34 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2025 06:01 Acrofales wrote:On February 19 2025 23:38 KwarK wrote:On February 19 2025 23:07 Acrofales wrote:On February 19 2025 22:56 KwarK wrote:On February 19 2025 22:52 Acrofales wrote:On February 19 2025 22:48 KwarK wrote:On February 19 2025 22:41 Acrofales wrote:On February 19 2025 22:16 KwarK wrote:
Trump, and his chosen cult of yes men, are enthusiastic about the prospect of using force against American citizens. They genuinely believe that their culture war is a real war and that there is a real enemy that is trying to destroy America by teaching history and measuring co2 levels etc. The idea that they’re going to back down from a challenge because some people go on strike is madness, they want people to go on strike, they want people to protest, they’re eager for the fight, they think they’ll win it by using force. Protest and facial recognition AI will put you on the list. Organize using social media and the security services will log every participant.
People still believe in a rule of law that no longer exists, and that’s why they’ll lose. They believe that as they’re detained indefinitely they’ll cry out “actually you’re not allowed to do this” and a bald eagle will break them out of jail. They believe that a general will refuse to follow orders, but also Trump won’t be able to dismiss that general and replace him with one who will. They don’t understand that they lost. That the Trump White House has already started simply ignoring court orders it doesn’t like.
This strike nonsense is nowhere near radical enough. If you plan to challenge the US government with direct action then you can’t also count on the power of the state to protect you from itself. That may be true, it may also be false. The first step in demanding change is to actually demand it. If you say it's going to fail, so better not try, you have already failed. If Trump's answer to a general strike and mass protests is to send in the national guard then obeying that order is up to the national guard. If the army obeys the dictator, there is generally very little you can do. But the US having a Tiananmen Square moment would definitely change peoples' minds about what society they live in. If, instead, you get a Tahrir Square moment then you live in a very different society. Or maybe it doesn't escalate that far in the first place. In any case, if you don't protest the abuse of power, why should anyone stop abusing it? There are other forms of direct action. I think we're all open to suggestions here, so spitball with us! What do you think should be done to halt Trump's autocratic takeover? There was an entire historical period in which vast amounts of money was spent on both the theory and the practical testing and application of tools to deal with fascist states. Everybody, including you, knows what works against fascists once they wield the powers of a state. So you think we're in 1939-stage fascism? I don't think you've had your Night of the Long Knives yet. At the very least you should try to set your Reichstag on fire first, right? They’re control big tech. They control the apps people use for communication. They control popular media. They’ve stacked the courts and are simply ignoring court orders they don’t like. They’ve removed all oversight and are concentrating executive power which they’ve also removed all restrictions on. They’ve had everyone wiretapped for decades. They’ve had Fox News on constantly in every army barracks for decades. We lost. The reason it was so important to vote Democrat in November was to avoid handing them the keys to the kingdom. But people were too morally pure to vote against the takeover and now those same people are going “what if we just tell the king no” as if the king gives a shit what they think. They wasted their shot. So let me get this straight, your choices were: 1. Vote Democrats 2. Inevitable Fascism and pray Mexico invades and saves your country. You tried (1) and failed so there is now literally nothing more for you to do. Oh well, better hope Mexico can help. If voting democrats once every few years can't stop fascism, nothing outside of WW3 can. It seems that for someone as smart as you are, that is an incredibly dumb take. I mean if you ignore literally all the other posts then sure, you could take my meaning to be giving up. But I was very clear that there were alternatives in other posts. It’ll take more than going to DC in a vagina hat though.
Yeah, so you, personally are giving up. You might be secretly hoping that someone else uses their second amendment rights, but you are personally not only not going to exercise your first amendment right (other than to maybe go and vote for the democrats if the fascists let you), but are yelling from the rooftops that it's pointless and other people shouldn't either. And throughout all that, you call GH feckless. If this were Nazi Germany, you'd be one of those countless ignominious people who voted for the DNVP and then cowered at home while brownshirts came to vandalize their neighbors' shop. I mean, how much worse can it really get? You're Aryan a white cis male after all.
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Northern Ireland27343 Posts
If folks aren’t gonna pop out and vote, they’re hardly going to be taking to the streets and fighting it out.
It’s not like it was some takeover by stealth, or martial law that was never relaxed, scenarios where that kind of pushback is more common.
Voting patently doesn’t fix many problems, but this one? At worst you’re at least kicking it down the road.
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United States44286 Posts
On February 20 2025 08:07 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2025 07:34 KwarK wrote:On February 20 2025 06:01 Acrofales wrote:On February 19 2025 23:38 KwarK wrote:On February 19 2025 23:07 Acrofales wrote:On February 19 2025 22:56 KwarK wrote:On February 19 2025 22:52 Acrofales wrote:On February 19 2025 22:48 KwarK wrote:On February 19 2025 22:41 Acrofales wrote:On February 19 2025 22:16 KwarK wrote:
Trump, and his chosen cult of yes men, are enthusiastic about the prospect of using force against American citizens. They genuinely believe that their culture war is a real war and that there is a real enemy that is trying to destroy America by teaching history and measuring co2 levels etc. The idea that they’re going to back down from a challenge because some people go on strike is madness, they want people to go on strike, they want people to protest, they’re eager for the fight, they think they’ll win it by using force. Protest and facial recognition AI will put you on the list. Organize using social media and the security services will log every participant.
People still believe in a rule of law that no longer exists, and that’s why they’ll lose. They believe that as they’re detained indefinitely they’ll cry out “actually you’re not allowed to do this” and a bald eagle will break them out of jail. They believe that a general will refuse to follow orders, but also Trump won’t be able to dismiss that general and replace him with one who will. They don’t understand that they lost. That the Trump White House has already started simply ignoring court orders it doesn’t like.
This strike nonsense is nowhere near radical enough. If you plan to challenge the US government with direct action then you can’t also count on the power of the state to protect you from itself. That may be true, it may also be false. The first step in demanding change is to actually demand it. If you say it's going to fail, so better not try, you have already failed. If Trump's answer to a general strike and mass protests is to send in the national guard then obeying that order is up to the national guard. If the army obeys the dictator, there is generally very little you can do. But the US having a Tiananmen Square moment would definitely change peoples' minds about what society they live in. If, instead, you get a Tahrir Square moment then you live in a very different society. Or maybe it doesn't escalate that far in the first place. In any case, if you don't protest the abuse of power, why should anyone stop abusing it? There are other forms of direct action. I think we're all open to suggestions here, so spitball with us! What do you think should be done to halt Trump's autocratic takeover? There was an entire historical period in which vast amounts of money was spent on both the theory and the practical testing and application of tools to deal with fascist states. Everybody, including you, knows what works against fascists once they wield the powers of a state. So you think we're in 1939-stage fascism? I don't think you've had your Night of the Long Knives yet. At the very least you should try to set your Reichstag on fire first, right? They’re control big tech. They control the apps people use for communication. They control popular media. They’ve stacked the courts and are simply ignoring court orders they don’t like. They’ve removed all oversight and are concentrating executive power which they’ve also removed all restrictions on. They’ve had everyone wiretapped for decades. They’ve had Fox News on constantly in every army barracks for decades. We lost. The reason it was so important to vote Democrat in November was to avoid handing them the keys to the kingdom. But people were too morally pure to vote against the takeover and now those same people are going “what if we just tell the king no” as if the king gives a shit what they think. They wasted their shot. So let me get this straight, your choices were: 1. Vote Democrats 2. Inevitable Fascism and pray Mexico invades and saves your country. You tried (1) and failed so there is now literally nothing more for you to do. Oh well, better hope Mexico can help. If voting democrats once every few years can't stop fascism, nothing outside of WW3 can. It seems that for someone as smart as you are, that is an incredibly dumb take. I mean if you ignore literally all the other posts then sure, you could take my meaning to be giving up. But I was very clear that there were alternatives in other posts. It’ll take more than going to DC in a vagina hat though. Yeah, so you, personally are giving up. You might be secretly hoping that someone else uses their second amendment rights, but you are personally not only not going to exercise your first amendment right (other than to maybe go and vote for the democrats if the fascists let you), but are yelling from the rooftops that it's pointless and other people shouldn't either. And throughout all that, you call GH feckless. If this were Nazi Germany, you'd be one of those countless ignominious people who voted for the DNVP and then cowered at home while brownshirts came to vandalize their neighbors' shop. I mean, how much worse can it really get? Your Aryan a white cis male after all.
Can you literally not read? I didn’t say any of that shit. You’re angry at some shit you’re imagining and projecting it on me.
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On February 20 2025 08:11 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2025 08:07 Acrofales wrote:On February 20 2025 07:34 KwarK wrote:On February 20 2025 06:01 Acrofales wrote:On February 19 2025 23:38 KwarK wrote:On February 19 2025 23:07 Acrofales wrote:On February 19 2025 22:56 KwarK wrote:On February 19 2025 22:52 Acrofales wrote:On February 19 2025 22:48 KwarK wrote:On February 19 2025 22:41 Acrofales wrote:
[quote]
That may be true, it may also be false. The first step in demanding change is to actually demand it. If you say it's going to fail, so better not try, you have already failed.
If Trump's answer to a general strike and mass protests is to send in the national guard then obeying that order is up to the national guard. If the army obeys the dictator, there is generally very little you can do. But the US having a Tiananmen Square moment would definitely change peoples' minds about what society they live in. If, instead, you get a Tahrir Square moment then you live in a very different society. Or maybe it doesn't escalate that far in the first place. In any case, if you don't protest the abuse of power, why should anyone stop abusing it? There are other forms of direct action. I think we're all open to suggestions here, so spitball with us! What do you think should be done to halt Trump's autocratic takeover? There was an entire historical period in which vast amounts of money was spent on both the theory and the practical testing and application of tools to deal with fascist states. Everybody, including you, knows what works against fascists once they wield the powers of a state. So you think we're in 1939-stage fascism? I don't think you've had your Night of the Long Knives yet. At the very least you should try to set your Reichstag on fire first, right? They’re control big tech. They control the apps people use for communication. They control popular media. They’ve stacked the courts and are simply ignoring court orders they don’t like. They’ve removed all oversight and are concentrating executive power which they’ve also removed all restrictions on. They’ve had everyone wiretapped for decades. They’ve had Fox News on constantly in every army barracks for decades. We lost. The reason it was so important to vote Democrat in November was to avoid handing them the keys to the kingdom. But people were too morally pure to vote against the takeover and now those same people are going “what if we just tell the king no” as if the king gives a shit what they think. They wasted their shot. So let me get this straight, your choices were: 1. Vote Democrats 2. Inevitable Fascism and pray Mexico invades and saves your country. You tried (1) and failed so there is now literally nothing more for you to do. Oh well, better hope Mexico can help. If voting democrats once every few years can't stop fascism, nothing outside of WW3 can. It seems that for someone as smart as you are, that is an incredibly dumb take. I mean if you ignore literally all the other posts then sure, you could take my meaning to be giving up. But I was very clear that there were alternatives in other posts. It’ll take more than going to DC in a vagina hat though. Yeah, so you, personally are giving up. You might be secretly hoping that someone else uses their second amendment rights, but you are personally not only not going to exercise your first amendment right (other than to maybe go and vote for the democrats if the fascists let you), but are yelling from the rooftops that it's pointless and other people shouldn't either. And throughout all that, you call GH feckless. If this were Nazi Germany, you'd be one of those countless ignominious people who voted for the DNVP and then cowered at home while brownshirts came to vandalize their neighbors' shop. I mean, how much worse can it really get? Your Aryan a white cis male after all. Can you literally not read? I didn’t say any of that shit.
I literally asked you what your suggestion was and you said "well, the only proven thing that solved fascism in the past" which was WW2. Everything else has just been shooting other peoples' suggestions down or wondering whether American voters or American politicians are more to blame for the current predicament.
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On February 20 2025 08:09 WombaT wrote:
If folks aren’t gonna pop out and vote, they’re hardly going to be taking to the streets and fighting it out.
It’s not like it was some takeover by stealth, or martial law that was never relaxed, scenarios where that kind of pushback is more common.
Voting patently doesn’t fix many problems, but this one? At worst you’re at least kicking it down the road.
They don't have to. Here's something they can do: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/feb/19/trumpism-bernie-sanders
Phone your Republican congressperson and tell them that shit is not okay. Phone your Democratic congressperson and tell them to get their head out of their ass. Live somewhere where your politicians aren't useless? Celebrate them! Let them know you appreciate their efforts to not cave to Trumpism.
Is stopping this bill enough? Not by a longshot. But shooting the bill down is a very small step to reining in Trump. Maybe if you take enough small steps, it'll turn out you traveled quite a bit away from the brink. There will be damage. But maybe it won't be irreparable and in 4 years you can have another go at solving it by voting. Hopefully people are willing to do a bit more than just phone their congresspeople. But any little whisper of resistance helps.
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United States44286 Posts
On February 20 2025 08:15 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On February 20 2025 08:11 KwarK wrote:On February 20 2025 08:07 Acrofales wrote:On February 20 2025 07:34 KwarK wrote:On February 20 2025 06:01 Acrofales wrote:On February 19 2025 23:38 KwarK wrote:On February 19 2025 23:07 Acrofales wrote:On February 19 2025 22:56 KwarK wrote:On February 19 2025 22:52 Acrofales wrote:On February 19 2025 22:48 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
There are other forms of direct action. I think we're all open to suggestions here, so spitball with us! What do you think should be done to halt Trump's autocratic takeover? There was an entire historical period in which vast amounts of money was spent on both the theory and the practical testing and application of tools to deal with fascist states. Everybody, including you, knows what works against fascists once they wield the powers of a state. So you think we're in 1939-stage fascism? I don't think you've had your Night of the Long Knives yet. At the very least you should try to set your Reichstag on fire first, right? They’re control big tech. They control the apps people use for communication. They control popular media. They’ve stacked the courts and are simply ignoring court orders they don’t like. They’ve removed all oversight and are concentrating executive power which they’ve also removed all restrictions on. They’ve had everyone wiretapped for decades. They’ve had Fox News on constantly in every army barracks for decades. We lost. The reason it was so important to vote Democrat in November was to avoid handing them the keys to the kingdom. But people were too morally pure to vote against the takeover and now those same people are going “what if we just tell the king no” as if the king gives a shit what they think. They wasted their shot. So let me get this straight, your choices were: 1. Vote Democrats 2. Inevitable Fascism and pray Mexico invades and saves your country. You tried (1) and failed so there is now literally nothing more for you to do. Oh well, better hope Mexico can help. If voting democrats once every few years can't stop fascism, nothing outside of WW3 can. It seems that for someone as smart as you are, that is an incredibly dumb take. I mean if you ignore literally all the other posts then sure, you could take my meaning to be giving up. But I was very clear that there were alternatives in other posts. It’ll take more than going to DC in a vagina hat though. Yeah, so you, personally are giving up. You might be secretly hoping that someone else uses their second amendment rights, but you are personally not only not going to exercise your first amendment right (other than to maybe go and vote for the democrats if the fascists let you), but are yelling from the rooftops that it's pointless and other people shouldn't either. And throughout all that, you call GH feckless. If this were Nazi Germany, you'd be one of those countless ignominious people who voted for the DNVP and then cowered at home while brownshirts came to vandalize their neighbors' shop. I mean, how much worse can it really get? Your Aryan a white cis male after all. Can you literally not read? I didn’t say any of that shit. I literally asked you what your suggestion was and you said "well, the only proven thing that solved fascism in the past" which was WW2. Everything else has just been shooting other peoples' suggestions down or wondering whether American voters or American politicians are more to blame for the current predicament.
You're failing to distinguish between my broader commentary on the nature of fascism and my personal choices to act within the situation I find myself in. I'll try to make it simpler for you.
From a broad political theory perspective my opinion is that peaceful protest isn't likely to work at this point. Fascism loves violence, it loves having an enemy, and an internal enemy is just as good as an external. The last words of the peaceful protesters will be "excuse me but you're actually not allowed to do this". Similarly voting them out isn't going to work. It basically didn't work in 2020 but key individuals required to overturn the election for Trump failed to do so. They've spent years fixing that, there is no world in which Trump makes a phone call demanding Georgia find more votes and they don't find them. So, with that said, how does it end? The same way all fascist societies end. Fascism is inherently self destructive, violence is oxygen to it, it will fight and fight and when it runs out of enemies it will make more until it destroys itself. In practical terms we're looking at civil war, imperialist invasions, or more likely, both. Certainly it's a bad time to be a non nuclear Mexico. The next few decades are not going to be good for the world.
My suggestions for individuals would be to work out where they fit within that and how they and their family survive. Whether that be emigration, arming themselves, insulating themselves against state power by ceasing to use any compromised communication, or other direct action.
I have made my own plans which I am not interested in discussing with you. They do not involve twirling a baton though.
Your mistake is in assuming that my contempt for the vagina hat wearing "resist" approach makes me compliant. I am more radical, not less radical, than you.
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If this government shines bright enough it might implode before it actually gets to do anything truly destructive. This is my one last beacon of hope.
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I think during Trump's first term, his crew dug around to determine the US military's contingency plans and wargame scenarios relating to a dictatorship taking over the federal government. We know the military uses game theory stuff for contingencies and whatnot, so we can infer a lot based on what Trump has done.
The US military is designed to be entirely subservient to our federal government but I think WW2 and the cold war each individually justified the US military designing contingency plans for thwarting a fascist dictatorship taking over the federal government. A military coup would be enormously harmful to the country regardless of how or why it was done, so I think their contingency plans only trigger in the absolute most dire of circumstances. I think Trump and his team determined the specific interlocks that would trigger a military coup and planned takeover to maneuver around those interlocks. For example, I think Trump ordering the military to kill all democrat senators and congresspeople would trigger some kind of coup protocol.
I think that’s why project 2025 was crafted so carefully and also openly. During Trump's first term, they collected all the information they needed to design the perfect fascist takeover without needing to move slowly or carefully to prevent accidentally triggering a military coup. Without the need for a slow and steady approach, they could design the entire thing ahead of time. And by broadcasting the whole thing somewhat openly, rather than operating in the shadows, it prevented it from appearing to be a credible threat. This allowed them to operate openly and muster all the logistics and manpower necessary to have all the pieces in all the right places to pull it off.
Strictly speaking, the US government becoming a dictatorship does not technically justify a full-ass military coup. The country could still maintain its integrity and military interests without a coup. And the dictatorship would not necessarily last, so a coup could do more harm than good if it was done in anything other than the most dire of circumstances. I think Trump's government plans to conduct this takeover as broadly as they can while carefully ensuring they never step over the red lines that would trigger a military coup.
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EPT
