EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 4783
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
KwarK
United States41928 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16378 Posts
On February 20 2025 08:38 KwarK wrote: My suggestions for individuals would be to work out where they fit within that and how they and their family survive. Whether that be emigration, arming themselves, insulating themselves against state power by ceasing to use any compromised communication, or other direct action. My great grandparents and grandparents had land they owned taken away from them. Also, their businesses were expropriated. As a result, my family has prepared me well. Fortunately, the USA is not the Soviet Union. It is a lot easier to leave the USA than it was to leave East Germany. Interestingly, more than 10% of Canadians have 2+ citizenships. In the USA it is estimated to be 3%. So for all the bitching, moaning, whining and complaining about how horrible the USA is... its citizens are not doing much to leave. I'm eligible to live and work in 3 countries. Any one putting all their hopes and dreams into a single country makes themselves far too vulnerable. Also, it is a bad idea to be able only to communicate effectively in one language; you really limit your options. My wife speaks 5 languages so I'm pretty well set. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11307 Posts
On February 20 2025 15:37 KwarK wrote: IRS laid off a few thousand people. Taxes are now voluntary. Only for rich people who are hard to prosecute. Normal people who don't have complex systems to avoid taxes will still have to pay. Fortunately, the USA is not the Soviet Union. It is a lot easier to leave the USA than it was to leave East Germany. Now. It was also easy to leave East Germany in the beginning. It only got hard in about 1952, 3 years after the formation of the GDR and 7 years after the separation. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16378 Posts
On February 20 2025 17:30 Simberto wrote: Now. It was also easy to leave East Germany in the beginning. It only got hard in about 1952, 3 years after the formation of the GDR and 7 years after the separation. lol, this must be a troll. I'll bite: the USA and Canada share a border 345839578 times as long as the East German Border.. plus 2 oceans. It will take so long to build a wall that Americans will have plenty of time to "escape to Canada". On February 20 2025 17:30 Simberto wrote: Now. It was also easy to leave East Germany in the beginning. It only got hard in about 1952, 3 years after the formation of the GDR and 7 years after the separation. I will concede that the USA has developed into the #1 hockey power in the world just like the Soviet Union used to be at the height of its power! The parallels are truly frightening! More seriously though: there are some great theories about how the USA could transform into Nazi Germany. https://www.amazon.ca/Ominous-Parallels-Leonard-Peikoff/dp/0452011175 I think the USA has been a 2-party dictatorship for a very long time. The federal elections are not very far off from what amounts to the serfs getting to select who their particular lord will be. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11307 Posts
So lets talk number about border lengths and so forth. The inner German border was 1381 km long. The border between the US and Canada is 8891 km long. That is about 6.4 times as long. Eastern Germany had a population of about 17 million people (between 16 and 18 depending on when you want to look) The US has a population of about 350 million. That is about 20 times as many as in Eastern Germany at any point of its history. So you could easily have twice as many people per km guarding the US-Canada border compared to what the GRD had on their border to western Germany, and it would still be less of an impact. In fact, you could add in the whole US-Mexico border (at 3145 km) too, could have twice as many people per km of border as Eastern Germany had, and still have fewer people per capita guarding the border than Eastern Germany did. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain17821 Posts
On February 20 2025 17:37 JimmyJRaynor wrote: lol, this must be a troll. I'll bite: the USA and Canada share a border 345839578 times as long as the East German Border.. plus 2 oceans. It will take so long to build a wall that Americans will have plenty of time to "escape to Canada". If you think Canada is going to be a safe haven from US fascism, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you! Also, aren't you the one who has been consistently cheerleading the Canadian Anschluss? | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16378 Posts
On February 20 2025 17:47 Simberto wrote: The inner German border was 1381 km long. The border between the US and Canada is 8891 km long. That is about 6.4 times as long. And there is also Alaska. Comparing the East German/West German border to the Canada//USA border is a very big reach. I think the Berlin Wall was something like 150 km long and it was made in a weekend. On February 20 2025 17:50 Acrofales wrote: If you think Canada is going to be a safe haven from US fascism, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you! Also, aren't you the one who has been consistently cheerleading the Canadian Anschluss? Canada really isn't a country. PM Justin Trudeau proudly proclaims it is a "post nation state". I am merely echoing the sentiments of the PM. | ||
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Hat Trick of Today
19 Posts
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Slydie
1877 Posts
First, shots fired in the "cultur wars". Starting with the now famous SNL skit with Tom Hanks, which conservatives freak out about. A a-list celeberty mocking their racism was too much. The virtue of "taking a joke" and "not being offended by everything" disappeared very quickly when they became the target. While conservatives are offended of being called racist, Musk tweeted this: 14 flags at 14.14. Musk knows alt-right lingo very well, and this is an obvious reference to the 14 words by domestic terrorist David Eden Lane They go like this: We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children followed by because the beauty of the White Aryan woman must not perish from the Earth. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States22657 Posts
Jim Jones, head of the food division at the Food and Drug Administration, has resigned, according to a source familiar with the matter. The division is tasked with ensuring that the country's food supply is safe, overseeing inspections and recalls. Jones' resignation comes after the Trump administration last week cut thousands of federal workers, including some who worked at the FDA. The source didn’t provide a reason for Jones' resignation. The resignation was reported earlier by Bloomberg News. In an interview with Stat News later Tuesday confirming his resignation, Jones said the firing of 89 people in the food division effectively dismantled the group. “I’m not sure if it’s a lack of understanding of how things get done, or it’s that there’s really no seriousness about what they want to get done,” he told Stat. “I don’t know. But I didn’t want to spend the next six months of my career on activities that are fundamentally about dismantling an organization, as opposed to working on the stated agenda.” www.nbcnews.com Is resigning helping anyone but the person resigning at this point? Would it not be better in basically every way for these people to get fired for impeding rather than willingly stepping out of the way for Trump? EDIT: Now that I think about it, seems like an excellent opportunity for weaponized incompetence. Hard for the Trump admin to tell the difference between someone that's sabotaging them and someone just doing a bad job of accomplishing their stated goals. Democrats are well practiced at this, so it should be second nature really. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland23700 Posts
On February 20 2025 18:53 Slydie wrote: I have not seen these yet in the thread, and I think they belong here. First, shots fired in the "cultur wars". Starting with the now famous SNL skit with Tom Hanks, which conservatives freak out about. A a-list celeberty mocking their racism was too much. The virtue of "taking a joke" and "not being offended by everything" disappeared very quickly when they became the target. While conservatives are offended of being called racist, Musk tweeted this: 14 flags at 14.14. Musk knows alt-right lingo very well, and this is an obvious reference to the 14 words by domestic terrorist David Eden Lane They go like this: followed by I mean Musk has been doing this kinda shit for ages. And to a degree it becomes redundant him making references to the relatively obscure 14 words when he’s Sieg Heiling at Presidential Inaugurations. ‘First they turned Pepe the Frog into an Alt-Right symbol but I did not speak out…’ I’m being somewhat serious here, it was obvious going back years how some were repackaging their views behind plausible deniability and dog whistles. One would get mocked for pointing it out of course, or called hysterical and told one’s overreacting or reaching, even as the messaging got more blatant. Now we’re at complete mask off territory it’s not like folks are suddenly recoiling in horror who weren’t already. It feels we’re past the point where pointing out fashy elements has any effect more widely. People either think (but won’t say it) ‘I know, I like it’, or are so unable to recognise it that they won’t consider things concerning unless it’s literally Hitler 2.0 In a similar vein, pointing out the blatant hypocrisy of conservatives doesn’t seem to work because either they don’t recognise that they are, or as seems increasingly likely don’t care. Worrying times ahead indeed. This doesn’t feel like a particularly temporary blip, as perhaps one could say of Trump scraping in in 2016, but a direction of travel into a less kind, more hateful world, and not just in the US by any stretch | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland23700 Posts
On February 20 2025 19:49 GreenHorizons wrote: Leader of the FDA resigned. www.nbcnews.com Is resigning helping anyone but the person resigning at this point? Would it not be better in basically every way for these people to get fired for impeding rather than willingly stepping out of the way for Trump? EDIT: Now that I think about it, seems like an excellent opportunity for weaponized incompetence. Hard for the Trump admin to tell the difference between someone that's sabotaging them and someone just doing a bad job of accomplishing their stated goals. Democrats are well practiced at this, so it should be second nature really. There’s a certain dark humour in someone called Jim Jones being in charge of a body that deals with food safety, but I digress. Resigning in such a fashion can move the needle, but under these circumstances? I’m inclined to agree. In another scenario a high profile resignation or two can draw attention and stop encroachment in its tracks. I.e. a scenario where things are broadly functional and norms and oversight are still valued broadly. In this one? It’s not like it’s news, or particularly new territory. A few resignations aren’t going to precipitate a backlash that reverses this trend. Trump et al are just doing what they’ve tried to do before, and have said they will do. That’s if one cares about these things and wants to put up some kind of resistance. If you don’t and it’s a case of covering yourself and not being blacklisted by the regime, then yeah resigning makes more sense. On the face of it ‘Trump/Trump allies are pressuring us to do basically illegal things (or at least things massively against the spirit of the law and institutions), which I object to. I shall thus resign to be replaced with someone who’ll likely accede to all those demands.’ Well that’s hardly a winning gambit. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9314 Posts
On February 20 2025 20:53 WombaT wrote: I mean Musk has been doing this kinda shit for ages. And to a degree it becomes redundant him making references to the relatively obscure 14 words when he’s Sieg Heiling at Presidential Inaugurations. ‘First they turned Pepe the Frog into an Alt-Right symbol but I did not speak out…’ I’m being somewhat serious here, it was obvious going back years how some were repackaging their views behind plausible deniability and dog whistles. One would get mocked for pointing it out of course, or called hysterical and told one’s overreacting or reaching, even as the messaging got more blatant. Now we’re at complete mask off territory it’s not like folks are suddenly recoiling in horror who weren’t already. It feels we’re past the point where pointing out fashy elements has any effect more widely. People either think (but won’t say it) ‘I know, I like it’, or are so unable to recognise it that they won’t consider things concerning unless it’s literally Hitler 2.0 Its a strategy that has worked for a long time and has played its part in getting us to where we are today. Every time someone on the left calls a person a nazi, the left as a whole loses a bit of support from some idiot centrists who believe the 'Lefties always resort to calling people nazis' line that blackjack so dearly loved. Meanwhile, the far right love it because it is nazi symbols, and the centre right people will believe any old shit that comes out of Musk's mouth so they don't think he's a nazi at all. Slowly but surely, its a win for the right and a loss for the left because so many on the left are too stupid to see what is happening and walk face first into it. I was talking about this in a facebook group yesterday and people just could not get their heads around the fact that call out culture doesn't work. I mean look around you man, the right is taking over everything and the left thinks that if they just do the same thing they've been doing for the last 10 years things will turn around. Its idiotic. | ||
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Sadist
United States7162 Posts
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9314 Posts
On February 20 2025 21:22 Sadist wrote: What do you suggest they do? Ignore it? Precisely. Either that or call it out for what it is, a stupid trolling strategy that comes from Musk being a no life 4chan loser boy. | ||
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oBlade
United States5254 Posts
On February 20 2025 03:40 KT_Elwood wrote: REEEEE!! In Indiana a 28 year old David Cherry has been arrested for "threatening" Elon Musk on Twitter. FREEE SPEECH??!? ANYBODY??? Police had a search warrant for his home, and took his legally owned assault rifle, handgun, ammunition and body armor. THEY ARE GOING AFTER GUN OWNERS! THE FEDS ARE COMING! This is especially typical of a state as red as Indiana. They are so incredibly fascist that you can't even make death threats without having your rights violated. It reminds me of all the people who purport to care about "reducing government spending" but for some reason don't start with abolishing Trump's entire secret service detail. | ||
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Slydie
1877 Posts
On February 20 2025 21:23 Jockmcplop wrote: Precisely. Either that or call it out for what it is, a stupid trolling strategy that comes from Musk being a no life 4chan loser boy. Is it trolling, though? I think it is a lightly coded message to his most extreme followers: "I am one of you, the time to fight for our real values is here". He is also slowly pushing his more moderate followers to the extreme, or to be silent accomplices. He knows they won't call him out for racism, and the slight encryption can let them live comfortably in denial, if they so wish. Trump has already gone much farther in this direction on Russia. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland23700 Posts
On February 20 2025 21:07 Jockmcplop wrote: Its a strategy that has worked for a long time and has played its part in getting us to where we are today. Every time someone on the left calls a person a nazi, the left as a whole loses a bit of support from some idiot centrists who believe the 'Lefties always resort to calling people nazis' line that blackjack so dearly loved. Meanwhile, the far right love it because it is nazi symbols, and the centre right people will believe any old shit that comes out of Musk's mouth so they don't think he's a nazi at all. Slowly but surely, its a win for the right and a loss for the left because so many on the left are too stupid to see what is happening and walk face first into it. I was talking about this in a facebook group yesterday and people just could not get their heads around the fact that call out culture doesn't work. I mean look around you man, the right is taking over everything and the left thinks that if they just do the same thing they've been doing for the last 10 years things will turn around. Its idiotic. On February 20 2025 21:22 Sadist wrote: What do you suggest they do? Ignore it? I’m not sure. Evidently what’s been tried hasn’t worked, that doesn’t necessarily mean it was a bad approach. Perhaps there simply isn’t a good one, and it’s not a case of the wider left making some tactical blunders at all. It did broadly work, for decades. Such shit was broadly kept to the fringes. Perhaps it just stops being effective because ‘hey you realise that bloke/blokette is saying some pretty fashy things’ doesn’t land on people who don’t actually have a problem with that. You’re not removing the wool that’s been pulled over their eyes, they’re perfectly aware. Some centrist types have just drastically miscalculated and been running useful interference for a decade+, but a whole bunch aren’t centrists at all. They’re right-leaning and claim otherwise, or they hate genuine left-wing politics far more than the prospect of Fascism. Which again, I mean if that’s the case no amount of better left-wing policy or messaging is really going to land there. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States43748 Posts
On February 20 2025 21:23 Jockmcplop wrote: Precisely. Either that or call it out for what it is, a stupid trolling strategy that comes from Musk being a no life 4chan loser boy. I think it needs to be called out at some level / all levels, or else we start to normalize Nazi/racist/sexist/hateful rhetoric. I just think that calling it out isn't the only thing we should be doing about it; we need to follow those words with actual actions. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium4554 Posts
I think understanding why society creates Nazis is way more productive and then you can tackle that problem head on. Maybe a society needs a % of Nazis, so that we can stay on our toes? Maybe Nazism is something inherently (socio)biological for people with certain genetics. Who the fuck knows. Should there be a place for Nazis in our society? I sure don't want any, but Nazis seem to think they deserve to be here all the same and why not, they're humans after all. I think this is a very difficult ethical question to tackle. It's basically the same like the integration problem with immigrants. It's needs such a careful way of setting up that, if you're not careful, you end up with segregated community after community that just doesn't work with you anymore (and vica versa) because they've entrenched themselves in their culture, basically importing their country into yours. That only causes friction for many people. | ||
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