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On November 15 2024 01:18 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2024 01:00 KwarK wrote:
On a slightly related note, I used to have a coworker who was pretty into me being British because he identified as Scottish and as he understood it we were basically the same. His family had been in the US for generations but he felt very strongly that he was Scottish. He even took annual trips to Scotland to meet up with the rest of his "clan" which I'm assuming consists entirely of rich Americans and a representative from the tourism board of Scotland. He bought his family tartan and showed us photos and everything.
I never had the heart to tell him that he's not Scottish and that the whole thing is a scam. Scottish people don't identify as belonging to a clan and anyone from anywhere in the world can show up in Edinburgh and be sold their family's historic tartan. If Mr Patel shows up cash in hand and wants to know more about the MacPatel clan then the tourism board of Scotland will happily tell him their noble and tragic story. My Canadian great Aunt is absolutely stock stereotype Canadian, its oot and aboot all over the shop. She really got into like genealogy and family trees. She got us some cool family clan crest things one Christmas, with a bit of explanatory stuff. My grandfather was actually Scottish, and my ma’s side were like 2 generations removed so I’m fairly of Scottish lineage I mean cool, but yeah it’s not something folks remotely give a shit about. Although in her research she did discover I’m distantly related to Brian May of Queen fame and she got to meet him, hang out the VIP grab some goodies, so hey. She’s old, may as well have a project! Us Irish, North and South frequently have a good laugh at the Americans who come over in much the same fashion as your coworker apparently does. Not all of em like, but so many of them are simultaneously as enthused and vehement of their lineage as they are divorced from the actual culture and history that the folks who live there experience. Some were genuinely surprised that their (correct) observation that a damn chunk of the IRA’s funding came from Irish-American communities didn’t go down all that well with me. Fuck sake lol I guess being the melting pot somewhat explains this interest in heritage, although I’ve always found it somewhat curious that it’s seemingly a handful of groups do this. I mean historically there were plenty of Norwegians, Dutch , Germans or English migrants but none seem to elicit that kind of enthusiasm or heritage tourism
if i ever contract the words "you" and "all" together... just shoot me and put me out of my misery.
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Northern Ireland27207 Posts
On November 15 2024 01:14 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2024 01:03 WombaT wrote:On November 14 2024 23:59 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On November 14 2024 22:30 KwarK wrote:
I assimilated into the blacks. were they Christians? The Italians i hung out with were hard working, blue collar Catholics. They are no where near the level of evil you ascribe in your comments about American Christians. Generally speaking, I think American Christians are alright. Very specifically, I think Italian-Catholics are decent. On November 14 2024 22:30 KwarK wrote:
Also as an American citizen I want you to let you know, you're welcome. I'm glad that I allowed you into my great country. thanks man! In conclusion, it is unfortunate that Canada is no longer a credible alternative to the USA. I do not foresee many Americans making good on their claims to move to Canada. A record-breaking number of Americans are searching for Canadian real estate after the U.S. presidential election. https://nowtoronto.com/real-estate/americans-searching-for-canadian-real-estate-skyrockets-after-trump-announced-president/ Well yes, because people don’t especially want to uproot and move to another country or locale. Or indeed, cannot easily do so. Which I repeatedly tell you every time you do the ‘if you don’t like it, just quit your job/move country’ as if it’s a solution to every problem. The US is still a great option for many, it’s a great place to be wealthy, really not a great place to be poor. Which still makes it an attractive option to very skilled potential migrants, who have in-demand skill sets It is not a snap decision to leave the country you are in. Trump has been on the scene now for 8+ years. Trump's win was not some stunning unbelievable upset. People have had plenty of time to organize and leave if they believe he will wreck the country. Due to NAFTA rules is is easier for Canadians and Americans to move between nations than any other country in the world. Also, one does not require an elite skill set nor to be rich. Nurses are leaving Canada in droves. This guide is a good starting point. https://www.rbcroyalbank.com/en-ca/my-money-matters/goals-aspirations/travel-and-cross-border/travelling-and-shopping-in-the-us/moving-to-the-u-s-from-canada-part-1-the-good-the-bad-and-the-taxes/Canada and the USA are filled with people who came from 10s of thousands of KMs away communicating in a language with a totally different alphabet and culture. For this group which #s in the 10s of millions, a move over the 49th parallel is relatively easier.
No this is not correct, easier than most, but it’s almost trivially easy to move between any EU/Schengen country.
Despite not feeling Irish I got my dual citizenship solely to open that option.
I don’t want to move abroad because my kid is still growing up, but I like the option. I co-parent with my ex so me moving abroad = not seeing him for big chunks of time. Plenty are in similar boats.
Some of my Irish partner’s peers are finally starting to migrate away, as is Irish tradition. The housing market is too brutal. Most observed this years ago, but were reluctant to leave family, friend networks and the comfort of their own culture. It took quite a while for most to actually do it.
One would, 100% but her mother has care needs and there’s nobody else to do it.
If it takes people years to take the plunge when they’re directly economically suffering, it’s even less likely that ‘I don’t like the politics of the nation’ is going to drag people away quickly. Or alternatively folks would rather not abandon their home country and just ride it out and fight for change.
I think you severely underestimate all of these kind of factors.
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On November 14 2024 22:30 KwarK wrote:
..., Morgan Freeman, the character played by Morgan Freeman in that movie about Nelson Mandela, ...
Masterful.
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Northern Ireland27207 Posts
On November 15 2024 01:34 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2024 22:30 KwarK wrote:
..., Morgan Freeman, the character played by Morgan Freeman in that movie about Nelson Mandela, ... Masterful.
Considering what Nelson was trying to accomplish, it would have been more apt if he was indeed named Morgan Freeman
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On November 15 2024 01:32 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2024 01:14 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On November 15 2024 01:03 WombaT wrote:On November 14 2024 23:59 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On November 14 2024 22:30 KwarK wrote:
I assimilated into the blacks. were they Christians? The Italians i hung out with were hard working, blue collar Catholics. They are no where near the level of evil you ascribe in your comments about American Christians. Generally speaking, I think American Christians are alright. Very specifically, I think Italian-Catholics are decent. On November 14 2024 22:30 KwarK wrote:
Also as an American citizen I want you to let you know, you're welcome. I'm glad that I allowed you into my great country. thanks man! In conclusion, it is unfortunate that Canada is no longer a credible alternative to the USA. I do not foresee many Americans making good on their claims to move to Canada. A record-breaking number of Americans are searching for Canadian real estate after the U.S. presidential election. https://nowtoronto.com/real-estate/americans-searching-for-canadian-real-estate-skyrockets-after-trump-announced-president/ Well yes, because people don’t especially want to uproot and move to another country or locale. Or indeed, cannot easily do so. Which I repeatedly tell you every time you do the ‘if you don’t like it, just quit your job/move country’ as if it’s a solution to every problem. The US is still a great option for many, it’s a great place to be wealthy, really not a great place to be poor. Which still makes it an attractive option to very skilled potential migrants, who have in-demand skill sets It is not a snap decision to leave the country you are in. Trump has been on the scene now for 8+ years. Trump's win was not some stunning unbelievable upset. People have had plenty of time to organize and leave if they believe he will wreck the country. Due to NAFTA rules is is easier for Canadians and Americans to move between nations than any other country in the world. Also, one does not require an elite skill set nor to be rich. Nurses are leaving Canada in droves. This guide is a good starting point. https://www.rbcroyalbank.com/en-ca/my-money-matters/goals-aspirations/travel-and-cross-border/travelling-and-shopping-in-the-us/moving-to-the-u-s-from-canada-part-1-the-good-the-bad-and-the-taxes/Canada and the USA are filled with people who came from 10s of thousands of KMs away communicating in a language with a totally different alphabet and culture. For this group which #s in the 10s of millions, a move over the 49th parallel is relatively easier. No this is not correct, easier than most, but it’s almost trivially easy to move between any EU/Schengen country.
I am comparing a move to the USA from 10,000+ KM away from a non-NAFTA country... versus... a move from the USA to Canada. For the 10s of millions of Americans who've already made a much bigger move with dozens more moving parts... a move to Canada is simple.
People are not moving because USA>Canada. I would argue that until the involuntary draft ended in 1973 that
Canada>USA.
Oh, and there is 1 other factor that all these moral grandstanders who scream about moving to Canada do not ever bring up. It is colder and the winters are longer. Who wants to move from South Carolina to Winnipeg? 
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On November 15 2024 01:00 KwarK wrote:
On a slightly related note, I used to have a coworker who was pretty into me being British because he identified as Scottish and as he understood it we were basically the same. His family had been in the US for generations but he felt very strongly that he was Scottish. He even took annual trips to Scotland to meet up with the rest of his "clan" which I'm assuming consists entirely of rich Americans and a representative from the tourism board of Scotland. He bought his family tartan and showed us photos and everything.
I never had the heart to tell him that he's not Scottish and that the whole thing is a scam. Scottish people don't identify as belonging to a clan and anyone from anywhere in the world can show up in Edinburgh and be sold their family's historic tartan. If Mr Patel shows up cash in hand and wants to know more about the MacPatel clan then the tourism board of Scotland will happily tell him their noble and tragic story. Its such an American thing, no doubt a result of there being almost no actual true Americans, they're all invaders or refugees and its been recent enough that people still give a shit.
You won't find people in Europe talking about how they are 15% Spanish or 20% Germanic.
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On November 15 2024 01:00 KwarK wrote:
On a slightly related note, I used to have a coworker who was pretty into me being British because he identified as Scottish and as he understood it we were basically the same. His family had been in the US for generations but he felt very strongly that he was Scottish. He even took annual trips to Scotland to meet up with the rest of his "clan" which I'm assuming consists entirely of rich Americans and a representative from the tourism board of Scotland. He bought his family tartan and showed us photos and everything.
I never had the heart to tell him that he's not Scottish and that the whole thing is a scam. Scottish people don't identify as belonging to a clan and anyone from anywhere in the world can show up in Edinburgh and be sold their family's historic tartan. If Mr Patel shows up cash in hand and wants to know more about the MacPatel clan then the tourism board of Scotland will happily tell him their noble and tragic story.
Did he and his family sit around talking about Burns, haggis and heroin?
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Northern Ireland27207 Posts
On November 15 2024 01:44 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2024 01:32 WombaT wrote:On November 15 2024 01:14 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On November 15 2024 01:03 WombaT wrote:On November 14 2024 23:59 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On November 14 2024 22:30 KwarK wrote:
I assimilated into the blacks. were they Christians? The Italians i hung out with were hard working, blue collar Catholics. They are no where near the level of evil you ascribe in your comments about American Christians. Generally speaking, I think American Christians are alright. Very specifically, I think Italian-Catholics are decent. On November 14 2024 22:30 KwarK wrote:
Also as an American citizen I want you to let you know, you're welcome. I'm glad that I allowed you into my great country. thanks man! In conclusion, it is unfortunate that Canada is no longer a credible alternative to the USA. I do not foresee many Americans making good on their claims to move to Canada. A record-breaking number of Americans are searching for Canadian real estate after the U.S. presidential election. https://nowtoronto.com/real-estate/americans-searching-for-canadian-real-estate-skyrockets-after-trump-announced-president/ Well yes, because people don’t especially want to uproot and move to another country or locale. Or indeed, cannot easily do so. Which I repeatedly tell you every time you do the ‘if you don’t like it, just quit your job/move country’ as if it’s a solution to every problem. The US is still a great option for many, it’s a great place to be wealthy, really not a great place to be poor. Which still makes it an attractive option to very skilled potential migrants, who have in-demand skill sets It is not a snap decision to leave the country you are in. Trump has been on the scene now for 8+ years. Trump's win was not some stunning unbelievable upset. People have had plenty of time to organize and leave if they believe he will wreck the country. Due to NAFTA rules is is easier for Canadians and Americans to move between nations than any other country in the world. Also, one does not require an elite skill set nor to be rich. Nurses are leaving Canada in droves. This guide is a good starting point. https://www.rbcroyalbank.com/en-ca/my-money-matters/goals-aspirations/travel-and-cross-border/travelling-and-shopping-in-the-us/moving-to-the-u-s-from-canada-part-1-the-good-the-bad-and-the-taxes/Canada and the USA are filled with people who came from 10s of thousands of KMs away communicating in a language with a totally different alphabet and culture. For this group which #s in the 10s of millions, a move over the 49th parallel is relatively easier. No this is not correct, easier than most, but it’s almost trivially easy to move between any EU/Schengen country. I am comparing a move to the USA from 10,000+ KM away from a non-NAFTA country... versus... a move from the USA to Canada. For the 10s of millions of Americans who've already made a much bigger move with dozens more moving parts... a move to Canada is simple. People are not moving because USA>Canada. I would argue that until the involuntary draft ended in 1973 that Canada>USA. Oh, and there is 1 other factor that all these moral grandstanders who scream about moving to Canada do not ever bring up. It is colder and the winters are longer. Who wants to move from South Carolina to Winnipeg?
Better for who?
If I’m a top tier programmer who’s a white bloke, USA is in many ways a better option.
If I’m a poor trans person in a red state, Canada would seem a much more appealing option.
If I enjoy befriending guidos and having endless watch parties for Goodfellas, I’ll probably pick the US
Etc etc
People have their different rationales and different stations in life. The few times I’ve been in the States, I didn’t really like it. There’s a kind of profound ugliness to the environment, it’s very gauche and tacky, unbelievably commercialised, to a degree just beyond what I’m used to. Amongst the parts I observed anyway.
Some people won’t care about that, I do. I don’t dig it. I quite liked Boston to be fair, or the bits I saw
I’m a noted non-fan of capitalism, and like sure it’s here too. But in the US it’s like the entire environment just kept bludgeoning me with ‘LOOK AT THE THING, IT’S CAPITALISM BABY’ just passively, constantly.
That’s my cross to bear. Others who don’t give a shit about that it’s. It’s not going to be an issue
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I'm impressed how you can be bludgeoned passively. I'd say it being quite an active affair actually.
Every so often I look at pictures of US towns/cities and I'm so profoundly impressed at the wideness of it all. Very unappealing to me. But I spawned in the Belgian chaos, so I guess that will have formed me a bit. I gotta say, very refreshing discussions lately. I'm learning a lot, thank you contributors.
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People are also too friendly in the US. Can't even walk around before someone starts talking to you and being generally nice because they think you are lonely or something.
As a Swede who abhors unplanned social contact in places like public transport or an airport, and who also cannot reasonably do anything to stop the conversation (for Swedish reasons) this is really weird and a trying time.
Also fuck driving.
(Joking. Mostly. I'm an extrovert but US culture is still quite different.)
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Northern Ireland27207 Posts
On November 15 2024 02:18 Uldridge wrote:
I'm impressed how you can be bludgeoned passively. I'd say it being quite an active affair actually.
Every so often I look at pictures of US towns/cities and I'm so profoundly impressed at the wideness of it all. Very unappealing to me. But I spawned in the Belgian chaos, so I guess that will have formed me a bit. I gotta say, very refreshing discussions lately. I'm learning a lot, thank you contributors.
I don’t think the intent is to bludgeon me, or at least not irritate my sensibilities so I’d still consider it quite a passive process by intent.
In actuality it’s like the ‘death by a thousand ads’ really.
Yeah also like to reiterate that, some interesting chats lately
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On November 15 2024 02:09 WombaT wrote:
Better for who?
If I’m a top tier programmer who’s a white bloke, USA is in many ways a better option.
i think you mean ... "better for whom".
the software engineers coming from the top tier school in Canada are about 3% white. and yet, the non-white graduates almost all end up in the USA. 20 years ago this was not the case. 20 years ago only about 1/2 ended up in the USA.
Oddly enough, its the white guys that tend to remain in Canada.
The non-white grads coming out of the University of Waterloo have zero fear for white supremacy in the USA and usually spend the majority of their 8 work terms in the USA. I think the young people say it this way.... "these dudes are based". Whatever "based" is.
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Northern Ireland27207 Posts
On November 15 2024 02:27 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2024 02:09 WombaT wrote:
Better for who?
If I’m a top tier programmer who’s a white bloke, USA is in many ways a better option.
i think you mean ... "better for whom". the software engineers coming from the top tier school in Canada are about 3% white. and yet, they all end up in the USA. 20 years ago this was not the case. 20 years ago only about 1/2 ended up in the USA.
*Whomst.
It was one example. On balance is it still probably better to be white in the US than not? Probably yes. Hence why I chose that qualifier.
Is it a hellhole if you’re a top tier programmer and say, Asian? No probably also not.
As per usual you’re missing the forest for the trees with the points I made and just interjecting something that may be valid, but sidestepping what I was arguing.
Which effectively was:
1) For many people, for many different reasons, emigrating is hard and something they’d ideally not like to do
2) The US is a great place to live for a certain strata of people, it’s also a pretty awful place, worse than comparable nations for another strata of people
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On November 15 2024 02:23 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:
People are also too friendly in the US. Can't even walk around before someone starts talking to you and being generally nice because they think you are lonely or something.
As a Swede who abhors unplanned social contact in places like public transport or an airport, and who also cannot reasonably do anything to stop the conversation (for Swedish reasons) this is really weird and a trying time.
Also fuck driving.
(Joking. Mostly. I'm an extrovert but US culture is still quite different.)
Don't come to Canada then, Americans think we are too friendly. Also, take everything JimmyJRaynor says with a giant grain of salt. I have not experienced anything that he has, he has a unique perspective, and sounds like very unique perspective.
What would scare me about Europe is all the people around, I can drive for a few hours to the mountain's and go on a hike and see no one if I like. I can also go to local parks and see barely anyone and those I see I know, or at least recognize. What I think I would like is how much more straight forward the Europeans I meet are (mostly Dutch and German), here people lie to be polite which works out mostly terrible because one person is doing something they think the other one likes, but the other one does not and they are both privately mad at each other while publicly being "nice". And when we all do that we also know others are doing it and so we are always a little unsure if they are actually kind or just acting nice for show.
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On November 15 2024 00:48 WombaT wrote:
Which then means you can say an ‘Italian-American’ to describe someone born and reared in Italy, who migrated and became an American citizen?
.
I think you are on to something. Italian american catholic hockey foosball sleeper cells.
I overheard some women on the train ( Paris - Brussels) a few weeks ago (US) about her being italian american..because her grandmother came from a little village in italy. She pretended to not know the region, nor speaking the language, but pronounciation of the village name sounded spot on.
Pretty much like she learned only that name, and the coverstory.
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On November 15 2024 01:52 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2024 01:00 KwarK wrote:
On a slightly related note, I used to have a coworker who was pretty into me being British because he identified as Scottish and as he understood it we were basically the same. His family had been in the US for generations but he felt very strongly that he was Scottish. He even took annual trips to Scotland to meet up with the rest of his "clan" which I'm assuming consists entirely of rich Americans and a representative from the tourism board of Scotland. He bought his family tartan and showed us photos and everything.
I never had the heart to tell him that he's not Scottish and that the whole thing is a scam. Scottish people don't identify as belonging to a clan and anyone from anywhere in the world can show up in Edinburgh and be sold their family's historic tartan. If Mr Patel shows up cash in hand and wants to know more about the MacPatel clan then the tourism board of Scotland will happily tell him their noble and tragic story. Its such an American thing, no doubt a result of there being almost no actual true Americans, they're all invaders or refugees and its been recent enough that people still give a shit. You won't find people in Europe talking about how they are 15% Spanish or 20% Germanic.
Is the "No True Scotsman" joke implicit, or can I still bring mine?
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On November 15 2024 03:30 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2024 01:52 Gorsameth wrote:On November 15 2024 01:00 KwarK wrote:
On a slightly related note, I used to have a coworker who was pretty into me being British because he identified as Scottish and as he understood it we were basically the same. His family had been in the US for generations but he felt very strongly that he was Scottish. He even took annual trips to Scotland to meet up with the rest of his "clan" which I'm assuming consists entirely of rich Americans and a representative from the tourism board of Scotland. He bought his family tartan and showed us photos and everything.
I never had the heart to tell him that he's not Scottish and that the whole thing is a scam. Scottish people don't identify as belonging to a clan and anyone from anywhere in the world can show up in Edinburgh and be sold their family's historic tartan. If Mr Patel shows up cash in hand and wants to know more about the MacPatel clan then the tourism board of Scotland will happily tell him their noble and tragic story. Its such an American thing, no doubt a result of there being almost no actual true Americans, they're all invaders or refugees and its been recent enough that people still give a shit. You won't find people in Europe talking about how they are 15% Spanish or 20% Germanic. Is the "No True Scotsman" joke implicit, or can I still bring mine?
You have a true Scotsman? Fascinating, I thought they didn't exist. Tell me, did you use benzos or fentanyl as a lure?
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Northern Ireland27207 Posts
On November 15 2024 03:48 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2024 03:30 NewSunshine wrote:On November 15 2024 01:52 Gorsameth wrote:On November 15 2024 01:00 KwarK wrote:
On a slightly related note, I used to have a coworker who was pretty into me being British because he identified as Scottish and as he understood it we were basically the same. His family had been in the US for generations but he felt very strongly that he was Scottish. He even took annual trips to Scotland to meet up with the rest of his "clan" which I'm assuming consists entirely of rich Americans and a representative from the tourism board of Scotland. He bought his family tartan and showed us photos and everything.
I never had the heart to tell him that he's not Scottish and that the whole thing is a scam. Scottish people don't identify as belonging to a clan and anyone from anywhere in the world can show up in Edinburgh and be sold their family's historic tartan. If Mr Patel shows up cash in hand and wants to know more about the MacPatel clan then the tourism board of Scotland will happily tell him their noble and tragic story. Its such an American thing, no doubt a result of there being almost no actual true Americans, they're all invaders or refugees and its been recent enough that people still give a shit. You won't find people in Europe talking about how they are 15% Spanish or 20% Germanic. Is the "No True Scotsman" joke implicit, or can I still bring mine? You have a true Scotsman? Fascinating, I thought they didn't exist. Tell me, did you use benzos or fentanyl as a lure?
Whisky or haggis, a deep-fried Mars Bar would perhaps serve better as a lure.
Benzos and fentanyl work much, much better on Americans
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RFK Jr. in at HHS according to Don Jr. 10 minutes ago.
Already the most bipartisan administration in decades.
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On November 15 2024 06:15 oBlade wrote:
RFK Jr. in at HHS according to Don Jr. 10 minutes ago.
Already the most bipartisan administration in decades.
What's your working definition of "bipartisan"? Or was this meant as a joke? I can't tell with your posts sometimes.
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EPT
