EPTThis is not what assimilating looks like.
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KwarK
United States43448 Posts
This is not what assimilating looks like. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26225 Posts
The current tangent, also interesting. I can see evolving coalition where party A is economically focused and socially/culturally conservative, delivers improved conditions, making social changes more palatable and drives that appetite and thus party B or C come along, get some drive and force policies in that direction, either by winning power themselves, or as part of a compromise coalition. Within the US borderline binary context, fundamentally changing the direction of a political party is a bit like big macroeconomic trends. You’re talking decades to do that, so you’ll never be agile enough to change tack to adjust or capitalise on the boom or bust times. It took about 20 years, maybe longer for the Trump thru Tea Party faction fully getting its claws into the GOP for one. I’m also of the opinion that as Gorsameth touched on, some elections are basically unwinnable. Or very, very difficult to. So perhaps taking too much away from certain elections may lead to incorrect conclusions and thus poor future policy based on said conclusions. If you’re the hand on the til when shit hits the proverbial fan, that alone can torpedo you. Not to say the Dems ran a great campaign, and perhaps haven’t done a great job in the overall picture, medium term to make their candidate more resilient to the impact of worldwide shocks. Equally, it wasn’t crazy close, so I’m not sure there’s one or two ‘if only they did x’ things that swing it. You’re probably talking a larger multitude You see it in long-term incumbents as well. Folks eventually aren’t really assessing the overall job you’re doing, but where you’re failing versus an opponent who is the unknown, or can make promises without having to deliver them. New Blair were still broadly doing an alright job at the end of their stints under Blair/Brown. But eventually people got sick of them and that regime. Then it’s 14 years of the Conservatives and them getting absolutely blown out. I’d argue not soon enough, but hey. Hell, you see it in my beloved football, and impatience has just increased. Lasting a couple of years in a top level job and you’re doing well. Most teams sack the manager, maybe the new guy gets a temporary boost, but often teams just go back to roughly where they were. Sometimes you get a big boost, which is the dream, sometime it’s a disaster and the previous guy was actually doing a damn good job, and the wheels fall off. Here’s something that does intrigue me. The UK has other non-trivial parties, but it’s always a twin choice as to who’s running things. In my lifetime it’s been Tories when I was a wain toddling around, Labour from when I was 7 til I was about 20. Then the Tories til I was 35. Historically atypical actually, it’s usually been the Tories with the occasional Labour term in there. If I was to bet moving forwards the patterns that have been the case in my life will broadly continue I think. Incumbency ends up biting, but actually it holds pretty stable. Perhaps a consequence of it being a winner-takes-all, where a party controls the legislature and executive unilaterally. Perhaps there’s a reluctance to upend things entirely every election cycle amongst the electorate coming into it? Looking at the US which is also basically 2 party, but with very discrete separation of powers, it’s rather different. The Presidency flips party very frequently. So incumbent fatigue seems almost accelerated. In the House, but especially the Senate, we see many a long, long-term incumbent, and not exclusively in safe States either? So incumbency fatigue seems rather stuck in stasis, if it even exists at all It seems to me a curious discrepancy, anyone got any pet theories? Is it simply a case that people have very different tastes for the executive, but if X Senator is doing a good job for my state they should just keep doing it? | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17182 Posts
On November 15 2024 00:17 KwarK wrote: This is not what assimilating looks like. playing foosball at Amici's with a bunch of Italians is assimilating. Talking about great Italians and their contribution to culture is. So Vince Lombardi and Phil Esposito are a great topic amongst Italians. here is Mr. Esposito here... Italians love this interview.. .and so do i. Phil Esposito was the leader of that team. It was communism versus capitalism on ice. Espo was a great leader. Talking about Phil Esposito or Mike Eruzione with any hockey loving Italian is a great way to assimilate. | ||
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KwarK
United States43448 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17182 Posts
On November 15 2024 00:31 KwarK wrote: I don't think you're a real person. how do you assimilate? i explained how i did it. | ||
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KwarK
United States43448 Posts
On November 15 2024 00:35 JimmyJRaynor wrote: how do you assimilate? i explained how i did it. Well as you made clear there are literally just two options, embracing ethnic stereotypes or screaming antisemitism. So I just walked into the statue of liberty and screamed antisemitism, as is tradition. Then a bald eagle flew down, swept me up in its loving talons, and I bled red white and blue. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11712 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26225 Posts
On November 15 2024 00:39 Simberto wrote: As a German, i can confirm that we do basically nothing besides talk about Arnold Schwarzenegger all day long. I guess sometimes we drink beer with Sauerkraut while being fat, too. Especially odd given Arnie is Austrian, but he is fucking Arnie I suppose. Do you guys crack jokes too or do you just skip that because Germans stereotypically don’t have a sense of humour? Here’s a question, one of life’s minor, minor irks. Why is it not American-Italian? Or American-Irish? So your perhaps multi-generational group of folks who’ve maybe never left their state, but are of x group’s descent. Which then means you can say an ‘Italian-American’ to describe someone born and reared in Italy, who migrated and became an American citizen? It gets even more confusing that Indian-American and American-Indian describe completely different groups of people. Obviously, the latter term is dwindling in popularity and acceptability of course. | ||
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Timebon3s
Norway756 Posts
Makes sense though, since we are a very socialist country. | ||
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Razyda
896 Posts
On November 15 2024 00:38 KwarK wrote: Well as you made clear there are literally just two options, embracing ethnic stereotypes or screaming antisemitism. So I just walked into the statue of liberty and screamed antisemitism, as is tradition. Then a bald eagle flew down, swept me up in its loving talons, and I bled red white and blue. First thing I did was to start wondering what would happened if Kwark didn't scream antisemitism with enough conviction. Immediately this scene came to mind: | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26225 Posts
On November 15 2024 00:49 Timebon3s wrote: In Norway we just bitch and whine about everything. Just like the democrats in this thread actually. Makes sense though, since we are a very socialist country. Conservatives, notably known for not whining and bitching of course. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17182 Posts
On November 15 2024 00:38 KwarK wrote: Well as you made clear there are literally just two options, embracing ethnic stereotypes I do not see it as embracing ethnic stereotypes; I am having fun with my neighbours. So talking about Phil Esposito OR the 1980 Miracle On Ice Captain OR going to Wrestlemania 18 OR playing foosball at a Barcade/Arcade are all fun things to do. As far as the "pro wrestling" stereotype goes. It is grounded in reality. The base customer of the WWF is the Italian-Catholic blue collar tradesman. Bruno Sammartino was the WWF champion forever because he was italian and the WWF customer base was Italian. Bruno was the freedom loving Italian-American saving the world from communism. I thought hey.. pro wrestling looks stupid.. however all my neighbours enjoy it ... so i will join in. | ||
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KwarK
United States43448 Posts
I never had the heart to tell him that he's not Scottish and that the whole thing is a scam. Scottish people don't identify as belonging to a clan and anyone from anywhere in the world can show up in Edinburgh and be sold their family's historic tartan. If Mr Patel shows up cash in hand and wants to know more about the MacPatel clan then the tourism board of Scotland will happily tell him their noble and tragic story. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11712 Posts
On November 15 2024 00:48 WombaT wrote: Especially odd given Arnie is Austrian, but he is fucking Arnie I suppose. Do you guys crack jokes too or do you just skip that because Germans stereotypically don’t have a sense of humour? Obviously we don't do jokes. Why would we, that does not sound very efficient. And Austria is Germany, they just don't know it yet. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26225 Posts
On November 14 2024 23:59 JimmyJRaynor wrote: were they Christians? The Italians i hung out with were hard working, blue collar Catholics. They are no where near the level of evil you ascribe in your comments about American Christians. Generally speaking, I think American Christians are alright. Very specifically, I think Italian-Catholics are decent. thanks man! In conclusion, it is unfortunate that Canada is no longer a credible alternative to the USA. I do not foresee many Americans making good on their claims to move to Canada. https://nowtoronto.com/real-estate/americans-searching-for-canadian-real-estate-skyrockets-after-trump-announced-president/ Well yes, because people don’t especially want to uproot and move to another country or locale. Or indeed, cannot easily do so. Which I repeatedly tell you every time you do the ‘if you don’t like it, just quit your job/move country’ as if it’s a solution to every problem. The US is still a great option for many, it’s a great place to be wealthy, really not a great place to be poor. Which still makes it an attractive option to very skilled potential migrants, who have in-demand skill sets | ||
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Timebon3s
Norway756 Posts
On November 15 2024 00:56 WombaT wrote: Conservatives, notably known for not whining and bitching of course. The duality of man. | ||
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KwarK
United States43448 Posts
On November 15 2024 01:00 Simberto wrote: Obviously we don't do jokes. Why would we, that does not sound very efficient. And Austria is Germany, they just don't know it yet. Austria kinda is Germany honestly. The reasons they are two countries are kinda silly. Austria was dating Hungary and didn't want to show up to the German family reunion hosted by Prussia because Prussia didn't want Austria bringing Hungary as a +1. Then after Austria and Hungary broke up Austria was chill coming alone but France felt like that'd be weird. Then Austria and the rest of the German family did all get together but both Russia and France didn't like it. I'm done pretending you're not the same nation. Any differences you have are no bigger than the differences between the existing federal states within Germany. | ||
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BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17182 Posts
On November 15 2024 01:03 WombaT wrote: Well yes, because people don’t especially want to uproot and move to another country or locale. Or indeed, cannot easily do so. Which I repeatedly tell you every time you do the ‘if you don’t like it, just quit your job/move country’ as if it’s a solution to every problem. The US is still a great option for many, it’s a great place to be wealthy, really not a great place to be poor. Which still makes it an attractive option to very skilled potential migrants, who have in-demand skill sets It is not a snap decision to leave the country you are in. Trump has been on the scene now for 8+ years. Trump's win was not some stunning unbelievable upset. People have had plenty of time to organize and leave if they believe he will wreck the country. Due to NAFTA rules is is easier for Canadians and Americans to move between nations than any other country in the world. Also, one does not require an elite skill set nor to be rich. Nurses are leaving Canada in droves. This guide is a good starting point. https://www.rbcroyalbank.com/en-ca/my-money-matters/goals-aspirations/travel-and-cross-border/travelling-and-shopping-in-the-us/moving-to-the-u-s-from-canada-part-1-the-good-the-bad-and-the-taxes/ Canada and the USA are filled with people who came from 10s of thousands of KMs away communicating in a language with a totally different alphabet and culture. For this group which #s in the 10s of millions, a move over the 49th parallel is relatively easy. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26225 Posts
On November 15 2024 01:00 KwarK wrote: On a slightly related note, I used to have a coworker who was pretty into me being British because he identified as Scottish and as he understood it we were basically the same. His family had been in the US for generations but he felt very strongly that he was Scottish. He even took annual trips to Scotland to meet up with the rest of his "clan" which I'm assuming consists entirely of rich Americans and a representative from the tourism board of Scotland. He bought his family tartan and showed us photos and everything. I never had the heart to tell him that he's not Scottish and that the whole thing is a scam. Scottish people don't identify as belonging to a clan and anyone from anywhere in the world can show up in Edinburgh and be sold their family's historic tartan. If Mr Patel shows up cash in hand and wants to know more about the MacPatel clan then the tourism board of Scotland will happily tell him their noble and tragic story. My Canadian great Aunt is absolutely stock stereotype Canadian, its oot and aboot all over the shop. She really got into like genealogy and family trees. She got us some cool family clan crest things one Christmas, with a bit of explanatory stuff. My grandfather was actually Scottish, and my ma’s side were like 2 generations removed so I’m fairly of Scottish lineage I mean cool, but yeah it’s not something folks remotely give a shit about. Although in her research she did discover I’m distantly related to Brian May of Queen fame and she got to meet him, hang out the VIP grab some goodies, so hey. She’s old, may as well have a project! Us Irish, North and South frequently have a good laugh at the Americans who come over in much the same fashion as your coworker apparently does. Not all of em like, but so many of them are simultaneously as enthused and vehement of their lineage as they are divorced from the actual culture and history that the folks who live there experience. Some were genuinely surprised that their (correct) observation that a damn chunk of the IRA’s funding came from Irish-American communities didn’t go down all that well with me. Fuck sake lol I guess being the melting pot somewhat explains this interest in heritage, although I’ve always found it somewhat curious that it’s seemingly a handful of groups do this. I mean historically there were plenty of Norwegians, Dutch , Germans or English migrants but none seem to elicit that kind of enthusiasm or heritage tourism | ||
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