EPTThe very definition of irony right here.
US Politics Mega-thread - Page 4323
| Forum Index > General Forum |
Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
|
Salazarz
Korea (South)2591 Posts
The very definition of irony right here. | ||
|
KT_Elwood
Germany1155 Posts
Please elaborate. | ||
|
Salazarz
Korea (South)2591 Posts
| ||
|
KT_Elwood
Germany1155 Posts
| ||
|
Salazarz
Korea (South)2591 Posts
| ||
|
Slydie
1943 Posts
On August 05 2024 15:17 KT_Elwood wrote: If Israel wanted to "genocide" the palestinians... they could have done much better. They bombed almost all of Gaza. If they had done it without warning, they much likely would have killed all of them..which would have been a genocide. So just don't use the word. There have been horrible reports of what the Israeli have done to the Palistinians. The death toll is estimated to be 39.000 people. Is your standard really "they could have killled millions, so it can't be genocide?" I would be interrested in hearing your take on a flipped script: Hamas and Hisbollah flattened all of Jeruslalem with bombs, and killed over 30.000 people in doing so. But they were considerate, and told them to flee to the US a week in advance. | ||
|
Salazarz
Korea (South)2591 Posts
On August 05 2024 17:34 Slydie wrote: There have been horrible reports of what the Israeli have done to the Palistinians. The death toll is estimated to be 39.000 people. Is your standard really "they could have killled millions, so it can't be genocide?" I would be interrested in hearing your take on a flipped script: Hamas and Hisbollah flattened all of Jeruslalem with bombs, and killed over 30.000 people in doing so. But they were considerate, and told them to flee to the US a week in advance. There's also the few hundreds to few thousands of Palestinians killed every year for the past 50+ years; hundreds of thousands of Palestinians illegally detained, displaced, or turned into cripples; the blockades; the whole 'definitely not citizens of Israel but absolutely not an independent nation' thing; surveillance; regular demolition of homes, places of work, and infrastructure; the list goes on. But nah, it's just land grabs now so just don't use the word, y'know? | ||
|
KT_Elwood
Germany1155 Posts
Only Nazis accuse the allies of "Genocide" .. and so is my view on Hamas. Hamas needs to be purged from gaza, as Nazis needed to be purged from germany. Jerusalem and other cities can be completely flattened I don't give a crap. The best ways to use all the "holy" places there would be to store radioactive waste. Both to deter people from fighting over it, and as an analogy to what "Religion" can be at it's worst... a load of crap that's dangerous forever. | ||
|
Salazarz
Korea (South)2591 Posts
On August 05 2024 19:10 KT_Elwood wrote: The only analogy I can find is the allied bombardment of german cities in WW2. Only Nazis accuse the allies of "Genocide" .. and so is my view on Hamas. Hamas needs to be purged from gaza, as Nazis needed to be purged from germany. Jerusalem and other cities can be completely flattened I don't give a crap. The best ways to use all the "holy" places there would be to store radioactive waste. Both to deter people from fighting over it, and as an analogy to what "Religion" can be at it's worst... a load of crap that's dangerous forever. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Kuper So this guy was a Nazi, then? | ||
|
KT_Elwood
Germany1155 Posts
| ||
|
Slydie
1943 Posts
On August 05 2024 19:10 KT_Elwood wrote: The only analogy I can find is the allied bombardment of german cities in WW2. Only Nazis accuse the allies of "Genocide" .. and so is my view on Hamas. Hamas needs to be purged from gaza, as Nazis needed to be purged from germany. Jerusalem and other cities can be completely flattened I don't give a crap. The best ways to use all the "holy" places there would be to store radioactive waste. Both to deter people from fighting over it, and as an analogy to what "Religion" can be at it's worst... a load of crap that's dangerous forever. The bombing of German cities were absolutely awful, but as we all know, we see history through the eyes of the victor. We are still not at the point where the Germany can get an apology for it. The Allies did not even try to "purge" the Nazis from Germany, though. That was not the purpose of the city bombings. That was a very bad example. You should rather look to what was done in Bosnia in the 90s. | ||
|
Salazarz
Korea (South)2591 Posts
On August 05 2024 20:17 KT_Elwood wrote: I don't follow his publications, did Kuper accuse the allies of the attempt to kill all germans? http://www.genocide-watch.com/images/AboutGenHowWeCanPreventGenocide.pdf We can also see the “us versus them” thinking in “axis of evil” ideology. It is bad theology. One of the crucial lessons of sound theology is that the division between good and evil is not vertical, between “us and them.” It is horizontal, with every human being having the capacity for both good and evil. The Nazi Holocaust was among the most evil genocides in history. But the Allies’ firebombing of Dresden and nuclear destruction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were also war crimes – and as Leo Kuper and Eric Markusen have argued, also acts of genocide. We are all capable of evil and must be restrained by law from committing it. | ||
|
KT_Elwood
Germany1155 Posts
This is exactly how hamas is operating. Commit acts of terrorism - hide behind civilians .. rinse and repeat. Gaza is a hopeless shithole because it's only purpose is to stay an open wound to israel.. it's people are replaceable livestock to the leaders who live in security. Edit: So yes.. I don't want palestinians to die.. I want Hamas to die. I want the islamic ideology to die, preferebly to be overthrown from withing...a islamic "Aufklärung". | ||
|
farvacola
United States18863 Posts
On August 05 2024 20:38 KT_Elwood wrote: I don't get why WWII shouldn't be the example. Nazi brass knew the continuation of the war was the only way to literally prolong their existence. They needed others.. even kids.. to take up arms to gain another week or month. This is exactly how hamas is operating. Commit acts of terrorism - hide behind civilians .. rinse and repeat. Gaza is a hopeless shithole because it's only purpose is to stay an open wound to israel.. it's people are replaceable livestock to the leaders who live in security. Edit: So yes.. I don't want palestinians to die.. I want Hamas to die. I want the islamic ideology to die, preferebly to be overthrown from withing...a islamic "Aufklärung". There’s a very good reason why analogies with Nazism are so problematic that they became part of one of the first rules of internet discussions. All you’ve said so far is that, in your mind, Hamas is as bad as Nazis so those who oppose Hamas have a blank check to essentially do anything they want to wipe them out. If you can’t see why that’s a highly troubling way to justify things, that’s on you dawg | ||
|
Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
On August 05 2024 20:38 KT_Elwood wrote: I don't get why WWII shouldn't be the example. Nazi brass knew the continuation of the war was the only way to literally prolong their existence. They needed others.. even kids.. to take up arms to gain another week or month. This is exactly how hamas is operating. Commit acts of terrorism - hide behind civilians .. rinse and repeat. Gaza is a hopeless shithole because it's only purpose is to stay an open wound to israel.. it's people are replaceable livestock to the leaders who live in security. Edit: So yes.. I don't want palestinians to die.. I want Hamas to die. I want the islamic ideology to die, preferebly to be overthrown from withing...a islamic "Aufklärung". 97% of the war has been fought exclusively on Gaza's soil. Resulting in nearly 40 000 dead Palestinians, the clear majority being civilians. The majority of Gaza destroyed. More land being grabbed in the West bank. Strict rejection of a state for Palestinians. This is a genocide. Whether or not all Palestinians will be genocided is irrelevant. The intent, the method and the outcome, it's all very clear to us. | ||
|
KT_Elwood
Germany1155 Posts
They both happen to have antisemitic ideologies, but this doesn't matter here. All that mattes is that both are authoritarian regimes that have turned or forced every person and strip of land they controlled to be part of their war machine and have a leadership that refuses to give up a hopeless position, since the war has become it's own purpose and the guarantee for their elevated position in their own society (while being removed from the consequences of the war they keep going) You can't have a peaceful coexistence with a neighbour that apperantly spent 19 years to turn the Gaza strip into a terror fortress. Israel moved out of Gaza in 2005. It seems that Hamas and their predecessors have spent all the while to amount weapons and shoot useless rockets into the Iron dome. Since the ideology can't apperently be overcome from within - it now needs to be purged from outsidem like nazi germany. Sounds pretty grimm, and I am removed from those times in germany, and removed geographicly from gaza, so it's rather easy to say, but I see no other way. Hamas could just quit fighting - they choose not to. | ||
KwarK
United States44077 Posts
On August 05 2024 20:19 Slydie wrote: The bombing of German cities were absolutely awful, but as we all know, we see history through the eyes of the victor. We are still not at the point where the Germany can get an apology for it. The Allies did not even try to "purge" the Nazis from Germany, though. That was not the purpose of the city bombings. The idea that Germany was allowed to initiate a total war against the rest of the world but that the rest of the world wasn't allowed to treat it as a total war is absurd. It's like if they showed up to a boxing match with a knife and then complained after they got overpowered and stabbed. The moment they pull out the knife it's no longer a boxing match, it's a knife fight. The party that needs to apologize to the Germans for Dresden are the Germans. They're the ones who thought it'd be fun to start burning down cities. It was a total war, the entire population was mobilized for the effort and the effort was gassing Jews, Roma, gays etc. until the last possible second. No Germans = No Nazis = No war. How many more allied soldiers should have died in the name of protecting Nazis? How much longer should the death camps have been kept running in the name of protecting Nazis? It's super weird that out of all the horrors of WW2 this is the one people fixate on. | ||
|
KwarK
United States44077 Posts
On August 05 2024 21:26 Magic Powers wrote: 97% of the war has been fought exclusively on Gaza's soil. Resulting in nearly 40 000 dead Palestinians, the clear majority being civilians. The majority of Gaza destroyed. More land being grabbed in the West bank. Strict rejection of a state for Palestinians. This is a genocide. Whether or not all Palestinians will be genocided is irrelevant. The intent, the method and the outcome, it's all very clear to us. It's not genocide. | ||
|
Salazarz
Korea (South)2591 Posts
Except people who devote their lives to study and prevention of genocides think it is, or at least is well on the way to becoming such. https://www.genocidewatch.com/single-post/genocide-is-never-justifiable-israel-and-hamas-in-gaza https://peoplesdispatch.org/2023/12/18/it-is-clear-that-israel-is-committing-genocide-in-gaza-un-panel-concludes/ | ||
|
KwarK
United States44077 Posts
On August 05 2024 22:18 Salazarz wrote: Except people who devote their lives to study and prevention of genocides think it is, or at least is well on the way to becoming such. https://www.genocidewatch.com/single-post/genocide-is-never-justifiable-israel-and-hamas-in-gaza https://peoplesdispatch.org/2023/12/18/it-is-clear-that-israel-is-committing-genocide-in-gaza-un-panel-concludes/ The government of Palestine declared war on its neighbour, invaded them, went on a killing spree, but is now subsequently losing the war they started. Their people are dying in the war they started. That does not make it a genocide. War is a perfectly good word to describe how horrifying and awful this situation is. We don't need to start degrading language to get people to notice. | ||
| ||
